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Why do people ship Edlegard and Byleth?

Do you ship Byleth x Edlegard?  

123 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you ship Byleth x Edlegard?

    • Hell Yeah!
      44
    • Not really, but can see why people do ship it
      34
    • No, and I don't care
      17
    • No, and I prefer Dimitri/Rhea/Claude x Byleth
      13
    • *Stabs Edlegard* What was the question again?
      15


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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

She should drive the story, but she's rather lazy when it comes to telling people crucial details.

Never said that her plans are intelligent, but they are what we follow.

Edited by Flere210

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38 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Those are the reasons I feel Alm and Celica are a terrible couple. They spent like two months with each other prepuberty and then never see each other again until adulthood where they immediately have a fight. That is a major warning flag. These two people are strangers who don't know each other at all. The basis of their attraction is on romanticized memories of their childhood (and I say romanticized with some hesitation, because their time together was capped off with a group of soldiers trying to murder them which really should be a traumatic memory) that by this point they can probably barely remember. It also doesn't help that during the time they were together they were basically being raised as brother and sister.

I thought it was implied to be a much longer time together in the original Gaiden (years, not months), but even so regardless of how unrealistic it might be IRL that time spent together as children was incredibly precious and meaningful enough to both of them that they each made a promise to find the other again someday. They weren't raised as brother and sister; the opening lines of the game made an effort to discredit them being raised even as cousins (Kliff being quick to correct Faye's statement in saying she is just Mycen's ward. And even if they were, Westermarcke effect would take waaay longer to set in if we're going to assume it was only months, especially at the age they already are). Clearly they remember everything about that past since its shown that in all of their private moments they are thinking about the other and wanting to reunite. They don't even immediately fight upon reuniting; its just as magical and heartwarming as either of them expected it would be, all until the topic of current events and what to do about them came up, and then with the tensions running high on both ends with the war needing to be fought but Celica fearing for Alm's safety, they had a spat (which is common in normal relationships and I find to be more realistic than most FE couples never fighting honestly) and went off to fix things in their own way. When they meet again with cooler heads (remember, they are both still teenagers, not true adults), they're able to make up and start approaching their issues together and their arc culminates by the end very satisfactorily. That's way more onscreen development of a canon relationship than you get in an average Fire Emblem game, and I fully acknowledge that it can be done even better, hence why I hope they try in the future.

I agree that its not the most realistic love story in the world, but I don't necessarily always have to have only fully realistic couples in my stories and they were presented in a far more enjoyable manner than the average main Fire Emblem couple. I respect your opinion to disagree, but I do think its a bit much to call them 'a terrible couple' based on Fire Emblem standards, which are the only standards I was applying here.

 

With as many "lord" characters as there were in Fates, I'm beginning to wonder if there was even a traditional main character/lord at all; its like it was spread out across multiple characters like Corrin, Azura, Xander/Ryoma, and some of the other siblings too. Very strange.

 

But I'll stop rambling now since I've been very off topic for a bit.

Edited by Silver Lightning

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18 minutes ago, Silver Lightning said:

I thought it was implied to be a much longer time together in the original Gaiden (years, not months), but even so regardless of how unrealistic it might be IRL that time spent together as children was incredibly precious and meaningful enough to both of them that they each made a promise to find the other again someday. They weren't raised as brother and sister; the opening lines of the game made an effort to discredit them being raised even as cousins (Kliff being quick to correct Faye's statement in saying she is just Mycen's ward. And even if they were, Westermarcke effect would take waaay longer to set in if we're going to assume it was only months, especially at the age they already are). Clearly they remember everything about that past since its shown that in all of their private moments they are thinking about the other and wanting to reunite. They don't even immediately fight upon reuniting; its just as magical and heartwarming as either of them expected it would be, all until the topic of current events and what to do about them came up, and then with the tensions running high on both ends with the war needing to be fought but Celica fearing for Alm's safety, they had a spat (which is common in normal relationships and I find to be more realistic than most FE couples never fighting honestly) and went off to fix things in their own way. When they meet again with cooler heads (remember, they are both still teenagers, not true adults), they're able to make up and start approaching their issues together and their arc culminates by the end very satisfactorily. That's way more onscreen development of a canon relationship than you get in an average Fire Emblem game, and I fully acknowledge that it can be done even better, hence why I hope they try in the future.

I agree that its not the most realistic love story in the world, but I don't necessarily always have to have only fully realistic couples in my stories and they were presented in a far more enjoyable manner than the average main Fire Emblem couple. I respect your opinion to disagree, but I do think its a bit much to call them 'a terrible couple' based on Fire Emblem standards, which are the only standards I was applying here.

 

With as many "lord" characters as there were in Fates, I'm beginning to wonder if there was even a traditional main character/lord at all; its like it was spread out across multiple characters like Corrin, Azura, Xander/Ryoma, and some of the other siblings too. Very strange.

 

But I'll stop rambling now since I've been very off topic for a bit.

See I can at least imagine other Fire Emblem relationships proceeding somewhere positive as they're developed so  little it's left almost entirely to the imagination, but for Alm and Celica all I can see are red flags, rash decisions and unreasonable expectations created from idealized images of people who are effectively complete strangers. I get where you're coming from though, it would be nice for Fire Emblem to actually try and develop romances rather than tacking them on, but for this particular romance I envision the result being an unhappy, bitter marriage.

Edited by Jotari

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

See I can at least imagine other Fire Emblem relationships proceeding somewhere positive as they're developed so  little it's left almost entirely to the imagination, but for Alm and Celica all I can see are red flags, rash decisions and unreasonable expectations created from idealized images of people who are effectively complete strangers. I get where you're coming from though, it would be nice for Fire Emblem to actually try and develop romances rather than tacking them on, but for this particular romance I envision the result being an unhappy, bitter marriage.

1. Alm needed to unite the continent for Valentia to work.  For that, he'd need a way to get to Zofia's throne.  It's either marry Celica or Conrad, and the latter isn't happening.  So even if Alm/Celica had a rough start, they'd end up together anyway.

2. But what does this have to do with Byleth?

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Yes, I do feel like recent FE games lack canon couples, but that's probably becasue avatars have became a thing. I wish we would get more romantic centric games, or at least games which has pairs such as Alm and Celica, or maybe even Sothe and Micaiah. But I would say FE16 was still a step in the right direction and I hope they will keep going with it for the games to come.

Edited by Ashe02

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20 minutes ago, eclipse said:

2. But what does this have to do with Byleth?

I don't know, I can't remember. XD We'll say no more of it.

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3 hours ago, Deathcon said:

Tbf Ike has said countless times he hates nobility to its concept so marrying or even dating Elincia well...

And Elincia isn't gonna abdicate the throne of course.

Yeah; but Elincia is an exception. The fact is that they were able to develop a strong bond even with Ike not being a fan of nobility. Plus, he wouldn't have to gain any titles or get involved in politics. Sothe marries Micaiah after she becomes Queen of Daein and he doesn't get any titles because of it. 

Anyway, this probably isn't the thread to discuss that any further. 

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I mean ... I personally ship them because Byleth is a blank slate moreso than say Corrin or Robin. For Corrin, I hated his personality so I didn't ship him with anyone because of it. For Robin, I shipped him based on whose supports felt right for him as a character. For me that was Lucina (and if they had gay options, Chrom). Those were the personalities I could see meshing well. It was also nice that I really liked both Lucina and Chrom which was helpful.

Because Byleth is supposed to be more 'us' in the sense he's silent and only occasionally throws shade, it felt easier to ship him with character I personally found captivating. In this game, Edelgard is EXACTLY the type of person I really like. She's a dictator out of her own ideals. She doesn't back down. She's willing to lie if necessary to reach her goals. She's ruthless and powerful and knows she's not going to be popular but strives to achieve her goals and what she thinks is right anyways. She's even willing to partner with those in the wrong to achieve her goal.

I admire her as a character, because it's very similar to how I feel/would hopefully act in this situation. So I ship Byleth/Edelgard purely out of the fact I would probably mesh well with Edelgard. I also ship Byleth/Dimitiri (if it was a gay option!!) because I also really enjoy and admire Dimitri as a character and I could function as his Edelgard!! Hahaha..

So yeah. If Byleth had a more defined personality, I'm unsure if Edelgard would have been the best option for him, but since he didn't, it was easier to project my own reactions and thoughts onto the world-building and characters and base it off that.

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Out of all the students, it seems Edelgard had a particular fondness for Byleth. She clearly looks up to him, and the game makes it a point to put them together a lot. Like the painting scene was supposed to make Edelgard seem more endearing and functioned as a "cute moment" for the couple. Plus, she's romanceable by either gender. Plus, out of all the Lords, she understands Byleth (the character) the most and tries to help him. The CF ending is special because of what happens to Byleth and this effect doesn't happen to Byleth in other routes. I'm not a fan of shipping Byleth though, as I felt that every other character had a stronger connection/chemistry with another character. Edelgard comes closest to having the most chemistry with him, but she's not a romantic character in the first place. So I don't mind them together. Sadly, all the people I was personally drawn to (Hilda, Felix, Dorothea, and Ferdinand Von Aegir) all had better support chains with other people.

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

See I can at least imagine other Fire Emblem relationships proceeding somewhere positive as they're developed so  little it's left almost entirely to the imagination, but for Alm and Celica all I can see are red flags, rash decisions and unreasonable expectations created from idealized images of people who are effectively complete strangers. I get where you're coming from though, it would be nice for Fire Emblem to actually try and develop romances rather than tacking them on, but for this particular romance I envision the result being an unhappy, bitter marriage.

Although an unhappy marriage is a bit of a sad ending for a Lord character, he is royalty and has to do what's best for the people. RL royals were always in arranged marriages and hardly married someone they loved. Alm would probably be happiest with Clair, but oh well.

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22 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Although an unhappy marriage is a bit of a sad ending for a Lord character, he is royalty and has to do what's best for the people. RL royals were always in arranged marriages and hardly married someone they loved. Alm would probably be happiest with Clair, but oh well.

Interesting fact: those in charge did have more say in the matter, and many of them, while they may not necessarily have married for love, did marry with... compatibility... in mind.

For example, English History is filled with kings (and even some crown princes) who arranged their own marriages with women known more for their beauty than their political value:

  • Edward the Black Prince married a childhood friend of his named Joan of Kent, who was well-regarded as one of the most beautiful women in England. Other nobility did not like the marriage, as it brought little to the English crown (as he married an Englishwoman) and because of Joan's checkered marital past (very funny story: she secretly eloped with a knight, then, while he was away at war, her family put her in an arranged marriage with a man who wanted her for her family's wealth. She protested, but couldn't say why. Once her husband safely returned to England, she immediately declared that he was her real husband. The case was brought before the Archbishop, who decided that the first marriage was official and the arranged marriage was void. A few years after her husband died, Edward married her). 
  • Edward IV married Elizabeth of Woodville; a knight's widow known for her beauty. Incidentally, he unknowingly did this at the same time that his advisor was negotiating an arranged marriage for him with someone else; accidentally embarrassing the advisor. Said advisor switched sides during the War of the Roses after that. Now you know the inspiration for Robb Stark's downfall in Game of Thrones. 

And those are just two of several examples in English history, let alone Medieval Europe. 

 

Honestly, when it comes to Alm and Celica, I like childhood-friend romance stories, but only when they're well-written, and they weren't. (Incidentally, my mom's a romance novelist, and she doesn't like childhood-friend romances because she rarely finds them realistic). It would've helped if the game showed them learning to complement each other; you know, the theme of the game. As it is, Byleth and Edelgard complement each other far better. 

Edited by vanguard333

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Crimson Flower clearly wants you to S rank Edelgard, the ending cutscene between them feels like it's meant to be seen, but honestly Byleth is awful and I don't like forcing them onto any of these characters. I like Ferdinand, Hubert, or Dorothea more as romantic partners for Edelgard.

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10 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Honestly, when it comes to Alm and Celica, I like childhood-friend romance stories, but only when they're well-written, and they weren't. (Incidentally, my mom's a romance novelist, and she doesn't like childhood-friend romances because she rarely finds them realistic). It would've helped if the game showed them learning to complement each other; you know, the theme of the game. As it is, Byleth and Edelgard complement each other far better. 

Great examples btw! It was an interesting read. I also agree with your mother about the "Childhood-friend" romances. They're tropey and as someone who has a couple of childhood friends, it's hard to think about them in anything more or less of a familial context-- like a sister. Alm and Celica's romance definitely felt forced and could've used more buildup.

Now back to the topic- Byleth and Edel do complement each other pretty well.

The funny thing is that I just don't like pairing either of them. Neither of them are romance-driven characters and don't really have any romantic supports. All 3 Lords don't have a lot of romantic supports, but at least Dimitri and Claude have a couple of people they have good romantic chemistry with. (Funnily enough, Marianne is a good match for both of them imo)

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In terms of which lord I think clearly has the biggest crush on Byleth, I think it goes Edelgard >>> Dimitri > Claude.

Since Byleth has the personality of a wet sock, though, it's difficult to really get behind a pairing and feel invested in it. The lords inevitably rely on Byleth, but that dynamic isn't really returned, so the chemistry is just lacking outside of headcanon and imagining stuff that's really not there.

 

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9 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Great examples btw! It was an interesting read. I also agree with your mother about the "Childhood-friend" romances. They're tropey and as someone who has a couple of childhood friends, it's hard to think about them in anything more or less of a familial context-- like a sister. Alm and Celica's romance definitely felt forced and could've used more buildup.

As someone who hates Alm's 3 girls wishing to be with him, why doesn't people usually call that out about it being mary sueish

At least with the avatar's the infatuations builded over some supports.

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On 1/18/2020 at 1:13 PM, Landmaster said:

When I played as M!Byleth, I honestly didn't really get a sense that the relationship between them was all that romantic. I ship her with Hubert~

Dimileth >>>


Pretty much. - 
and honestly, and it's not like because I totally fell in love with Dimitri or anything, but i never hear the other VA's talk about Byleth + Their Lord as much as Chris Hackney does. I figure if he's totally team Dimileth, then it must be true, right? outside of Karen, of course

also. while I do get the crush that miss El has on Byleth i never really felt it on MByleth's end. 

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1 hour ago, AvatarofDiscord said:

As someone who hates Alm's 3 girls wishing to be with him, why doesn't people usually call that out about it being mary sueish

At least with the avatar's the infatuations builded over some supports.

I call Alm out as a Mary Sue on this forum all the time, and that’s one example that I tend to list. It’s also an example of a trope I find so ridiculous that I made a thread about it (the trope being Clueless Chick Magnet: the young male hero has almost every lady falling for him and doesn’t realize it). 

I am extremely glad that Byleth, from what I’ve seen so far, isn’t a Mary Sue. They may have little personality, but they’re leagues above Alm and Corrin.

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Just now, vanguard333 said:

I call Alm out as a Mary Sue on this forum all the time, and that’s one example that I tend to list. It’s also an example of a trope I find so ridiculous that I made a thread about it (the trope being Clueless Chick Magnet: the young male hero has almost every lady falling for him and doesn’t realize it). 

I am extremely glad that Byleth, from what I’ve seen so far, isn’t a Mary Sue. They may have little personality, but they’re leagues above Alm and Corrin.

OMG, THANK YOU

The only problem with this comment is the Corrin part, I personally identify with Corrin (Way more than Alm) but otherwise, I love this comment

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To be honest, I don't like AvatarxLord ships period. ChromxRobin, RobinxLucina, CorrinxAzura, etc. I quite frankly hate them all.

To me, it's just cliche and boring to pair up the character meant to represent you with one of the main Lords. I honestly prefer to give the side characters time to shine in that regard.

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5 hours ago, AvatarofDiscord said:

OMG, THANK YOU

The only problem with this comment is the Corrin part, I personally identify with Corrin (Way more than Alm) but otherwise, I love this comment

I listed Corrin because they too are a Mary Sue. Corrin and Robin have almost the exact same indicators:

  • Glorification of the character takes precedence over actually writing the character
  • The plot is unnaturally distorted around them, and before you say, "Isn't that simply from them being the protagonist?" No; it isn't
  • Everyone fawns over them: the women want them and the men want to be them (gender-swapped for female Corrin, and even then...)
  • Their character flaws aren't treated like actual flaws because their the plot's special little kid; think Alm's recklessness and Corrin's naivete. 
  • They can never be allowed to lose in a way that matters. Any defeats just get brushed over or reduced to irrelevancy, and not by anything being  by the character to make up for it. 

I could go on, but I'm not going to, since this is not a Mary Sue thread. If Corrin resonates with you for some reason, then that's fine; no one wants to take that away from you since that's subjective. Just asking you to acknowledge that Corrin is undeniably a Mary Sue. 

 

1 hour ago, Sentinel07 said:

To be honest, I don't like AvatarxLord ships period. ChromxRobin, RobinxLucina, CorrinxAzura, etc. I quite frankly hate them all.

To me, it's just cliche and boring to pair up the character meant to represent you with one of the main Lords. I honestly prefer to give the side characters time to shine in that regard.

Yeah; even outside the character being an avatar, just pairing up the two lead characters is a tired old cliché to the point where some writers pretty much assume they have to do so; that that's just how it is. This can lead to some really bad romance arcs. 

Fortunately, it doesn't always have to do so. Tropes are tools after all; if you write it well (as in if you write it from the perspective of writing a romance between two characters and not from the perspective of just pairing up the lead characters), then it works; even if it seems cliché. 

From the three you listed, I'd say... I can't judge ChromxRobin as I only ever played M!Robin, RobinxLucina is alright; I usually pair those two when I'm not pairing Robin with Cordelia (their support conversations cover an aspect of Cordelia's life that the other supports don't bring up and have Robin help Cordelia process her grief over her fellow Pegasus Knights... and I like redheads), and Corrin and Azura could maybe have worked if they weren't unknowingly cousins who never address it when it's revealed to them. 

 

To relate this back to Byleth and Edelgard, I think it works. It doesn't come off as just pairing the two lead characters; it comes off as pairing two characters that have decent chemistry and gradually build a strong emotional bond. It's no NA-Localization Ike and Elincia, but it works. 

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9 hours ago, AvatarofDiscord said:

As someone who hates Alm's 3 girls wishing to be with him, why doesn't people usually call that out about it being mary sueish

At least with the avatar's the infatuations builded over some supports.

People do call Alm out on being a Mary Sue all the time. Usually they just don't use that term though and contrast him with Celica's actual failures.

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18 hours ago, Jotari said:

People do call Alm out on being a Mary Sue all the time. Usually they just don't use that term though and contrast him with Celica's actual failures.

Yeah. It's true. Though I have used the term Mary Sue (well, technically I usually use the term Gary Stu as that's the male version), and I've never actually contrasted him with Celica's actual failures. 

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22 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

and Corrin and Azura could maybe have worked if they weren't unknowingly cousins who never address it when it's revealed to them. 

Reminder that they aren't actually cousins, be it a retcon or IS forgetting to include it in the game, fates artbook lists Mikoto and Arete as not being related by blood.

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1 hour ago, Sbuscoz said:

Reminder that they aren't actually cousins, be it a retcon or IS forgetting to include it in the game, fates artbook lists Mikoto and Arete as not being related by blood.

It is a retcon, and since the only way to know that is through a source outside the game itself, then, as far as the game is concerned, they are cousins. 

 

On 1/18/2020 at 2:54 PM, Ashe02 said:

Yes, I do feel like recent FE games lack canon couples, but that's probably becasue avatars have became a thing. I wish we would get more romantic centric games, or at least games which has pairs such as Alm and Celica, or maybe even Sothe and Micaiah. But I would say FE16 was still a step in the right direction and I hope they will keep going with it for the games to come.

I agree; it would be nice to see more canon couples and proper romance arcs within the actual story. Of course, that comes with the risk that, if written badly, it can adversely affect the game's story (just ask Alm and Celica), but it is well worth the risk if written well.

One interesting change of pace would be the lord character already being in a relationship at the start of the game; maybe a political arranged marriage or something like that? Maybe the relationship is with someone from a kingdom that ends up being an enemy; making things very difficult for them. 

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Erm, back to Byleth?  Just because he/she has barely any personality doesn't mean that they don't deserve a topic!

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7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

It is a retcon, and since the only way to know that is through a source outside the game itself, then, as far as the game is concerned, they are cousins. 

 

I agree; it would be nice to see more canon couples and proper romance arcs within the actual story. Of course, that comes with the risk that, if written badly, it can adversely affect the game's story (just ask Alm and Celica), but it is well worth the risk if written well.

One interesting change of pace would be the lord character already being in a relationship at the start of the game; maybe a political arranged marriage or something like that? Maybe the relationship is with someone from a kingdom that ends up being an enemy; making things very difficult for them. 

This would be a nice change. Marth in his second game is the only character in the series who ever starts the game in anything resembling a romanitc relationship. And given the nature of that game basically nothing comes of it.

7 hours ago, eclipse said:

Erm, back to Byleth?  Just because he/she has barely any personality doesn't mean that they don't deserve a topic!

Right, Byleth...eh, what else can I say? Better make a sweeping statement. Anna is the only ethical ship for Byleth among the playable cast, as every single other character is either a student or a worker (except Sothis, but that's just weird). And Byleth can't even support with Anna!

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