Fighter’s Pass Vol. 2: May our hearts be our guiding light

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Well, as a Tekken fan, I'm happy to see it represented in Smash Bros.! I might have picked Jin, though, personally. Still, happy to see Kazuya...and desperately hoping that the final DLC fighter is Crash.

[Lord_Brand]

I've got a feeling Shantae won't become a fighter, now, which makes me sad. But at least she got a Spirit. I don't care if the game's called Ultimate, I'm hoping for a Smash 6 and for Shantae to be among the fighters added in it. In the meantime, the next most likely fighter candidate seems to be Crash, but how many of us saw Kazuya coming? For that matter, how many of us were asking for Min Min or Byleth? Just because Crash seems to be the most likely, doesn't mean he'll actually be chosen.

Though there is something I've noticed about the DLC thus far: They always make sure the next fighter to get added is radically different from the last one in some way. They don't release similar DLC fighters together. Like, if Terry had been the previous DLC, Kazuya would have felt like more of the same, just another muscular punchy boy from a fighting game series. But Kazuya's following the heels of Pyra & Mythra, a cute sword girl from a fantasy RPG with a transformation gimmick. And she in turn was following the dark, foreboding Sephiroth, who followed the blocky, goofy Steve, who followed the stretchy-limbed Min Min. It's similar to how Magic: The Gathering releases sets that are radically different in what's called the "swinging pendulum". One set could be "viking world", the next "magic school world".

So, in hindsight, it was foolish of me to hope for Shantae to follow Pyra & Mythra, considering she would have been another cute girl with a transformation gimmick from a fantasy series. But Crash would still work as a goofy platformer mascot. At the very least, the next fighter most likely won't be from a fighting game series such as Mortal Kombat or Virtua Fighter, though since they have had JRPG reps back-to-back, it is possible the next rep will still come from a fighting game of some kind.

I'm surprised we haven't had a proper shooter rep yet. We've got lots of JRPG and Fighting game reps, as well as a platformer mascot, but no FPS or shmup reps. Bill Rizer? Doom Slayer? Tracer? It's so frustrating that we won't be getting a FP3, there are just too many good fighters left to add! That's why I'm an advocate of Smash 6 adding a custom fighter creator; there are just too many good fighter candidates for Sakurai's development team to keep up.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[King Marth 64]

On 6/20/2021 at 11:13 AM, Lord_Brand said:

I've got a feeling Shantae won't become a fighter, now, which makes me sad. But at least she got a Spirit. I don't care if the game's called Ultimate, I'm hoping for a Smash 6 and for Shantae to be among the fighters added in it. In the meantime, the next most likely fighter candidate seems to be Crash, but how many of us saw Kazuya coming? For that matter, how many of us were asking for Min Min or Byleth? Just because Crash seems to be the most likely, doesn't mean he'll actually be chosen.

What if Shantae does gets in the Fighter Pass Vol. 2 as the last Challenger Pack 11? I did seen some people in YouTube mentioned that they put their votes in Shantae in the Fighter Ballot back at 2015 and Sakurai did put alot of newcomers in Ultimate along with the rest of the cut veterans from the Fighter Ballot like Banjo & Kazooie, King K. Rool, Eight, Simon & Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus, etc. and I think Nintendo probably did looked at the Fighter Ballot Poll to pick which fighters to add in Fighters Pass Vol. 1 & 2 while adding Joker, Eleven, Byleth, Min-Min, Pyra, and Mythra in who weren't existed back then when the Fighter Ballot was opened. I think Crash would be most unlikely since I don't think he was majorly brought up into Fighter Ballot discussions like King K. Rool for example when it was opened back at 2015 since Nintendo probably did already planned the DLC list already.

I still wanted Shantae to join in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate in some ways as possible.

On 6/20/2021 at 11:13 AM, Lord_Brand said:

So, in hindsight, it was foolish of me to hope for Shantae to follow Pyra & Mythra, considering she would have been another cute girl with a transformation gimmick from a fantasy series. But Crash would still work as a goofy platformer mascot. At the very least, the next fighter most likely won't be from a fighting game series such as Mortal Kombat or Virtua Fighter, though since they have had JRPG reps back-to-back, it is possible the next rep will still come from a fighting game of some kind.

Since we managed to received a 2nd Bandai Namco fighter in the roster while Ultimate had gotten two Microsoft reps. What if a 2nd SNK rep joins in as Challenger Pack 11 since SNK was the only current 3rd Party company that only has 1 franchise fighter in the entire roster? Similar to like in Ultimate that Sakurai did added Tekken's Kazuya as 2nd Bandai Namco franchise rep as of right now while Sakurai did add the Heroes from Dragon Quest as Square Enix's 2nd franchise rep while adding Sephiroth as Final Fantasy's 2nd rep, Castlevania's Simon (as well as Richter as Simon's Echo) from Konami's 2nd Franchise reps in the roster, Joker from Sega/Atlus (I'm thinking it's considered to be 3rd Sega Franchise Character due to Bayonetta's position in company wise), and Ken from Street Fighter as Ryu's Echo from Capcom.

Edit from June 28th: Unfortunately for poor Shantae that she was got deconfirmed as a Mii Costume for Round 10 during at Kazuya's Presentation today. I might be ok with that she being a Mii Fighter as of right now.

I have to take Shantae off in my list. It just leaves Mike Jones for StarTropics series, Impa, 2nd SNK Franchise Rep, or Ayumi as one of my picks for Challenger Pack 11.

Edited June 29, 2021 by King Marth 64

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Okay. Heihachi gets added as a Mii, then his son becomes a fighter. Dante gets added as a Mii, then Nero is going to be...

Wait. Nero is Dante's nephew. Damnit! 

[Perkilator]

I think I can see the last fighter being revealed in this year's September Direct.

[Lord_Brand]

I guess my two top picks for the last spot now are Crash Bandicoot or Mega Man X. And of those, I know X has far worse chances, despite his series' popularity. He's one of my Smash 6 hopefuls, alongside Zero.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I'm still hoping for Crash Bandicoot, but I'm prepared to be disappointed.

[Perkilator]

Every day, I wish i could fire an imagination beam and make the Smash however I want it to be, roster or otherwise.

[Lord_Brand]

Another question I feel we should ask: Is there a fighter candidate out there who would be more profitable than Crash? A game character who is more popular, from a more successful series?

[Perkilator]

32 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

Another question I feel we should ask: Is there a fighter candidate out there who would be more profitable than Crash? A game character who is more popular, from a more successful series?

Pokemon

I don't think Nintendo's necessarily aiming for that target range, but assuming we do go by that logic, it's honestly hard to say either way. There are plausible options in this range that aren't just Cash Banooca, just...not much.

Assuming veteran franchises are on the table, please ignore my bad joke from earlier I think Eggman might fit in this category

[Jotari]

16 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Another question I feel we should ask: Is there a fighter candidate out there who would be more profitable than Crash? A game character who is more popular, from a more successful series?

Yes, quite a lot. Crash Bandicoot isn't a super massive successful series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

It's about on par with Tekken so it's certaionly not impossible, but following the money does not guarantee Crash by any measure. If we're to look at it in terms of profitability than Assassin's Creed would be the most successful series without a character in Smash, this discounts stuff like sports games (though I would laugh my ass off at how salty the fanbase would be if Messi or someone got into Smash, the football item is already there so why not?) and Grand Theft Auto/Call of Duty which are mega successful but not super compatible with Nintendo's brand image. Of course that's just looking purely at numbers, from what I gather not even Assassin's Creed fans are actually fans of Assassin's Creed despite the games selling like hot cakes. It seems the fanbase has far more bad things to say about each installment than good things. But I've never been super into Asassin's Creed so I don't know. At least as far as the characters from it go it seems like they could have a pretty interesting moveset revolving around a mechanic like Shulk's back attack.

Working through Wikipedia's list, other series more popular than Crash include

Resident Evil, especially since that series seems to be having a bit of a revival with the remakes getting releases on Switch. Nintendo could be interested. Someone did suggest a Resident Evil character in this pages upon pages back suggesting a moveset that could be based around limited supplies, but eh, I feel like a typical Resident Evil protagonist would still end up just being another Snake, so all in all I'd prefer Wesker.

Lara Croft, from Tomb Raider, pretty successful franchise, though I think it's been rather quiet in recent years. I certainly can't think of it hitting the headlines. I'm also not sure how much moveset potential she has. I know from limited exposure that she's pretty athletic, but I think most combat just comes down to shooting guns and we already have that only more interesting with the likes of Joker and Zero Suit Samus.

Halo, also very popular, and I think as far as shooters go a little less generic in terms of weapons and stuff available so probably more moveset potential there.

Monster Hunter is already significantly represented in Smash with the Rathlos boss, but them adding a Monster Hunter Protagonist of some sort doesn't seem like it would be off the table.

Oh wow, I didn't think Borderlands was so successful. Unfortunately I know basically nothing else about it to comment on its potential for characters. All I know is that it's a shooter with some great box art.

Red Dead is another series that's pretty popular. Cowboys are a niche Smash lacks near as I can see.

The Elder Scrolls,  we recently got a Mii Costume for that. Might be another Hehachi->Kazuya situation.

Civilization is also a pretty popular series, and like a football character, would be a hilarious way of breaking the "Originated in a video game" rule people swear by. #nuclearGhandi for Smash (Yeah, it's totally not going to happen).

Mortal Kombat is in the same ball park as Tekken, and is a franchise I wouldn't be surprised at all if a character got in. It also recently got a new movie so it's still around in the public conciseness. I personally really don't want to see Scorpion or Raiden to show up since the whole "Fighting game characters ported directly into Smash" gimmick has never worked for me, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they pulled it again.

And then finally just above Crash there's God of War with Kratos as a character with quite a diverse range of abilities.

And as an extra one, not listed as a franchise on Wikipedia's page due to its business model, but Fornite is a fresh new franchise that is super popular and has a pretty diverse range of weapons and stuff for a shooter that would make a Smash moveset that's pretty unique.

To sum up, Crash  certainly isn't an unpopular character. And unlike most of these franchises he has a mascot aspect to him, with the others being less defined around a central character. But to think of him as a shoe in based on his popularity alone is wearing blinders I think. There are a lot more options out there for characters from franchises that have enjoyed more success. Not all of the franchises are viable, but on the other hand a lot of them are. And that's not even considering them pulling another Byleth and putting a Nintendo character in the final slot. Personally I want Pig Beast Ganon more than any other character.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Jotari

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm still keeping my expectations at the bottom. The last character announced for Smash 4's DLC, Smash Ultimate, and its first season pass were either a pokemon or a fire emblem. And I think we're good for fire emblem since they did not announce Echoes of the Holy War at E3, so, pokemon time. If a big event like E3 or Game Awards were coming up then it would be a good time to bet on some awesome guest character.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Oh wow, I didn't think Borderlands was so successful. Unfortunately I know basically nothing else about it to comment on its potential for characters. All I know is that it's a shooter with some great box art.

I think Claptrap would be great for Smash. He's a series mascot, he's playable in one of the four games, incidentally the one with ground pounds and double jumps which are very Smash Bros things. He'd also stand out visually among other DLC characters, being the only non human of the current season pass. Lilith might be even more likely. She's a major character in all four games, even if she's only playable in the first one (note that none of the characters are playable in more than one game). And her siren powers are really diverse, covering flight for her recovery, being able to disappear for a Greninja-esque shadow sneak attack, and plenty of other fire based stuff if you wanted to limit how many guns are present in her moveset down to zero - you could do it. There's even alien blaster like guns as well.

I think the biggest barrier to Borderlands in Smash is the same for most franchises on that list: It's hard to gauge how much of a presence there is in Japan. And Crash is no different. Heck the Fake Crash character is a joke on how awful the marketing was for the series in Japan. If there were a list of best selling franchises in Japan, you'd probably have a more accurate data set to predict characters in Smash. Though you could argue this trend is being bucked as more western - appealing characters are added to smash, like Banjo, K Rool, and more Metroid characters. Sakurai's got pretty diverse gaming tastes (he owns an Xbox One for god's sake), but his choices for character additions are first watered down by arrangements that Nintendo of Japan wants to be making.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Glennstavos

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm still keeping my expectations at the bottom. The last character announced for Smash 4's DLC, Smash Ultimate, and its first season pass were either a pokemon or a fire emblem. And I think we're good for fire emblem since they did not announce Echoes of the Holy War at E3, so, pokemon time. If a big event like E3 or Game Awards were coming up then it would be a good time to bet on some awesome guest character.

I think Claptrap would be great for Smash. He's a series mascot, he's playable in one of the four games, incidentally the one with ground pounds and double jumps which are very Smash Bros things. He'd also stand out visually among other DLC characters, being the only non human of the current season pass. Lilith might be even more likely. She's a major character in all four games, even if she's only playable in the first one (note that none of the characters are playable in more than one game). And her siren powers are really diverse, covering flight for her recovery, being able to disappear for a Greninja-esque shadow sneak attack, and plenty of other fire based stuff if you wanted to limit how many guns are present in her moveset down to zero - you could do it. There's even alien blaster like guns as well.

I think the biggest barrier to Borderlands in Smash is the same for most franchises on that list: It's hard to gauge how much of a presence there is in Japan. And Crash is no different. Heck the Fake Crash character is a joke on how awful the marketing was for the series in Japan. If there were a list of best selling franchises in Japan, you'd probably have a more accurate data set to predict characters in Smash. Though you could argue this trend is being bucked as more western - appealing characters are added to smash, like Banjo, K Rool, and more Metroid characters. Sakurai's got pretty diverse gaming tastes (he owns an Xbox One for god's sake), but his choices for character additions are first watered down by arrangements that Nintendo of Japan wants to be making.

That's a fair point. I haven't looked into any data for specifically Japanese sales, but from the franchises I've listed there the ones that seem like they'd appeal more to the Japanese gamer base would be Resident Evil, Monster Hunter and Mortal Kombat, even though I think Mortal Kombat has always been an American series it's always felt a lot like a Japanese game (not just in the design of a lot of its characters but also just by ingraining itself in the Street Fighter style of fighting games). Probably Assassin's Creed too.

Of course one should note that following the money isn't a guarantee of anything either. It's not like Fatal Fury is the most popular series in the world. Like it was somewhat big in it's day, but I don't think Terry was picked for his financial success as a character.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Jotari

[Lightchao42]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I haven't looked into any data for specifically Japanese sales, but from the franchises I've listed there the ones that seem like they'd appeal more to the Japanese gamer base would be Resident Evil, Monster Hunter and Mortal Kombat, even though I think Mortal Kombat has always been an American series it's always felt a lot like a Japanese game

Ha, Mortal Kombat hasn't been sold in Japan since 3 because it was incredibly unpopular, so that's definitely never happening. Smash Bros. has never saved the most popular character for last so I would expect as "smaller" third party as the last character if anything.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Yes, quite a lot. Crash Bandicoot isn't a super massive successful series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

This is honestly a pretty misleading statement to make. 50 million units is a lot (a LOT). And several of the series that have sold more are things like Madden, FIFA, and Just Dance; things a lot of people buy for big parties and gatherings, of course they're going to sell like hot cakes. Crash's sales are comparable and close to Tekken, God of War, Mortal Kombat, and Metal Gear. All of which are considered massively successful series. Crash is very popular and certainly in that same successful category. Especially given the history of the franchise, how huge it was in the 90s and early 2000s, and the continuous and HUGE demand for a revival for several years before the N. Sane Trilogy.

To compare sales further, it has sold more units than Street Fighter (although not by a huge amount), Pac-Man, Uncharted, Kirby, Guitar Hero, BioShock, Fallout, Mega Man, Kingdom Hearts, Devil May Cry, Castlevania, Spyro, and more.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Doesn't this list exclude arcade sales? That's really unfair to fighting games isn't it? let alone everything else that has come out for arcades. I could pump sixty dollars worth of quarters into a mortal Kombat machine and that doesn't count for a sale under any metric. Heck, we don't even know if an individual, five hundred dollar cabinet sold to an arcade even counts as one sale. I highly doubt Crash has made comparable money to street fighter, mortal kombat, or Tekken.

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Glennstavos

[Jotari]

21 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Ha, Mortal Kombat hasn't been sold in Japan since 3 because it was incredibly unpopular, so that's definitely never happening. Smash Bros. has never saved the most popular character for last so I would expect as "smaller" third party as the last character if anything.

Oh really  XD Well not I'm glad I prefaced it with an open acknowledgment I hadn't looked at the data.

21 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

This is honestly a pretty misleading statement to make. 50 million units is a lot (a LOT). And several of the series that have sold more are things like Madden, FIFA, and Just Dance; things a lot of people buy for big parties and gatherings, of course they're going to sell like hot cakes. Crash's sales are comparable and close to Tekken, God of War, Mortal Kombat, and Metal Gear. All of which are considered massively successful series. Crash is very popular and certainly in that same successful category. Especially given the history of the franchise, how huge it was in the 90s and early 2000s, and the continuous and HUGE demand for a revival for several years before the N. Sane Trilogy.

To compare sales further, it has sold more units than Street Fighter (although not by a huge amount), Pac-Man, Uncharted, Kirby, Guitar Hero, BioShock, Fallout, Mega Man, Kingdom Hearts, Devil May Cry, Castlevania, Spyro, and more.

I said Crash wasn't a super massive successful series. Of course it's still successful, but I was approaching it from the angle of "Is there literally any series more successful than it which aren't in Smash" to which the answer is, undoubtedly, yes. Which I then proceeded to list, excluding stuff like Madden and Just Dance. Like I said, he's not an unpopular character and he does stand a chance, but to think he is a shoe in based on success alone is wearing blinders at there are characters, both viable and unviable, who were and are more successful than him. Of course there are characters in Smash who are altogether less successful than him too, that's why I mentioned Terry.

17 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Doesn't this list exclude arcade sales? That's really unfair to fighting games isn't it? let alone everything else that has come out for arcades. I could pump sixty dollars worth of quarters into a mortal Kombat machine and that doesn't count for a sale under any metric. Heck, we don't even know if an individual, five hundred dollar cabinet sold to an arcade even counts as one sale. I highly doubt Crash has made comparable money to street fighter, mortal kombat, or Tekken.

 

That's why I brought up Fortnite which has a different business model, being free to download on most services which doesn't count as a sale, yet has made billions of dollars each year and is also really popular with people who use it free to play. It's still probably not up there compared to all those historic franchises in terms of cash generated, but it's also much newer and more relevant in the current gaming environment. It also indulges very heavily in cross over advertising already. Though that could also be a double edged sword in terms of business as they might only be willing to lend the IP to Nintendo if Nintendo lends IPs to Forenite.

Also they do have a page for highest grossing Arcade games, to which Street Fighter II by itself is number 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_video_game#Highest-grossing

So yeah, I could see Street Fighter being a more successful series than Crash.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Jotari

[Lightchao42]

I've personally never expected Crash for Ultimate because even if Nintendo is interested in him, I don't expect Activision to play along. Crash wasn't in PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale because Activision wanted too much money, and that was back when Activision wasn't doing anything with him. Sure, Nintendo could pay a ridiculous fee for him but that doesn't mean they'd want to.

18 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Doesn't this list exclude arcade sales? That's really unfair to fighting games isn't it? let alone everything else that has come out for arcades. I could pump sixty dollars worth of quarters into a mortal Kombat machine and that doesn't count for a sale under any metric. Heck, we don't even know if an individual, five hundred dollar cabinet sold to an arcade even counts as one sale. I highly doubt Crash has made comparable money to street fighter, mortal kombat, or Tekken.

The original Pac-Man has made several billion dollars in quarters since its release, but I haven't found a firm number of how much it made in total. I've heard $12 billion as the total revenue, but I don't know how accurate that is.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Lightchao42

[Fire Emblem Fan]

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I said Crash wasn't a super massive successful series. Of course it's still successful, but I was approaching it from the angle of "Is there literally any series more successful than it which aren't in Smash" to which the answer is, undoubtedly, yes. Which I then proceeded to list, excluding stuff like Madden and Just Dance. Like I said, he's not an unpopular character and he does stand a chance, but to think he is a shoe in based on success alone is wearing blinders at there are characters, both viable and unviable, who were and are more successful than him. Of course there are characters in Smash who are altogether less successful than him too, that's why I mentioned Terry.

That's the thing, though. Crash is a massively successful series, especially if you're looking solely at sales. Not just successful. Massively so. You made it sound like it was closer to a niche title or something. Another fun fact is that Crash Bandicoot was the first non-Japanese game to get a "Gold Prize" in Japan for its sales, and is one of the few non-Japanese franchises that actually found success in Japan.

You're right, though, that he's certainly not a shoe-in just because of sales or popularity. It is silly to think that. There's many characters that also have success that are yet to be added, and those with less success that have been added. Who knows what Nintendo considers when they pick a character?

[Interdimensional Observer]

Didn't someone who worked on Crash games earlier this year say on social media to the effect "I would like to see Crash in Smash", which would violate an NDA if Nintendo had forced the person to sign one b/c Smash?  If so, I'll be firmly in the doubter camp on him. -Not to say I'd disapprove of his inclusion, I'm past caring about who gets into Smash.

And I'll provide a random counterweight for talk of this blatantly Western favorite of some with a distinctly Japanese-flavored option. With over 16-million in almost entirely Japan-only sales I'm thinking Masaki Andoh. He is the original Super Robot Wars Banpresto Original hero, and while he is at home in a 28.48 meters-tall machine, he was able to shrink it down to "power armor" size more suitable for Smash back in 1992. -Again, I'm not bashing Crash. In this case I'm motivated by 30th anniversary of the SRW franchise and the complete absence of it being mentioned in Smash discussions, and I like its music.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

That's the thing, though. Crash is a massively successful series, especially if you're looking solely at sales. Not just successful. Massively so. You made it sound like it was closer to a niche title or something. Another fun fact is that Crash Bandicoot was the first non-Japanese game to get a "Gold Prize" in Japan for its sales, and is one of the few non-Japanese franchises that actually found success in Japan.

You're right, though, that he's certainly not a shoe-in just because of sales or popularity. It is silly to think that. There's many characters that also have success that are yet to be added, and those with less success that have been added. Who knows what Nintendo considers when they pick a character?

I don't think I did suggest he was a niche character by saying he's not super massively successful. Obviously each person is going to define what they reckon the scope of "super massively successful" is, we could say Mario is "super duper massively successful" to show that it's an order of magnitude higher, but I think "not super massively successful" is accurate to say when there are several dozen franchises that are more popular. I gave Crash his due at the end of my overall comment noting how he is popular and that he has more mascot identity going for him than most. I wasn't trying to suggest he was niche, I was just saying he's mote top 50 more popular video game franchises as opposed to top 10.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

19 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

The original Pac-Man has made several billion dollars in quarters since its release, but I haven't found a firm number of how much it made in total. I've heard $12 billion as the total revenue, but I don't know how accurate that is.

That's the thing, who's keeping track? Because in Pac Man's case, you could imagine a global, journalistic effort keeping tabs on the exciting, new arcade craze. What we now call the Golden Age of Arcades. I can expect most arcade owners keep careful track of how much money a particular machine brings in, but do they ever report such numbers? Does anybody ever care to ask? Probably not in the twenty first century. My brother and I pumped eight dollars into a Terminator rail shooter yesterday, who's going to report that? I don't think anybody ever will.

[Lord_Brand]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

This is honestly a pretty misleading statement to make. 50 million units is a lot (a LOT). And several of the series that have sold more are things like Madden, FIFA, and Just Dance; things a lot of people buy for big parties and gatherings, of course they're going to sell like hot cakes. Crash's sales are comparable and close to Tekken, God of War, Mortal Kombat, and Metal Gear. All of which are considered massively successful series. Crash is very popular and certainly in that same successful category. Especially given the history of the franchise, how huge it was in the 90s and early 2000s, and the continuous and HUGE demand for a revival for several years before the N. Sane Trilogy.

To compare sales further, it has sold more units than Street Fighter (although not by a huge amount), Pac-Man, Uncharted, Kirby, Guitar Hero, BioShock, Fallout, Mega Man, Kingdom Hearts, Devil May Cry, Castlevania, Spyro, and more.

More than Mega Man? That surprises me, given Mega's easily got the title count advantage. Are we just counting Classic or the entire megafranchise (pun unintended)?

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

You're right, though, that he's certainly not a shoe-in just because of sales or popularity. It is silly to think that. There's many characters that also have success that are yet to be added, and those with less success that have been added. Who knows what Nintendo considers when they pick a character?

Part of it seems to be representing notable series within a genre. In Smash 4, we got:

• Cloud for Final Fantasy, VII in particular (the most iconic JRPG series)
• Ryu for Street Fighter (the most iconic fighting game series)

Come Ultimate, they've added:

• Hero for Dragon Quest (the granddaddy of all JRPGs)
• Banjo & Kazooie (a memorable 3D platformer series from the N64 days)
• Terry for Fatal Fury (one of Street Fighter's most notable rivals besides Tekken)
• Steve for Minecraft (financially the most successful video game of all time)
• Sephiroth from FFVII (the most famous JRPG villain)
• Kazuya for Tekken (the second-most successful fighting game series after Mortal Kombat, third if you count Smash)

Clearly, profitability isn't the only determining factor, so even if Crash isn't the most successful mascot of the 90s, he still stands a decent chance for his role as PlayStation's unofficial mascot back in the day and as Activision's most notable platform mascot now. The fact he's popular in Japan is a big plus. And the fact is, there is active demand for Crash all over the internet. People have made videos that talk about his moveset potential or feature prospective Smash remixes of his songs. Social media is abuzz with "Crash in Smash!" The demand is out there. And hey, if Banjo & Kazooie - a series that has been largely inactive for over a decade and has been all but MicroSoft-exclusive for nearly two -  can make it in, why not Naughty Dog's orange marsupial son?

As has been said before, the stars are aligning. Crash is back and he's popular again, possibly more than ever before. And considering Activision worked out a deal with Nintendo to bring his three most recent and highly successful console outings to Switch, it would be very surprising if they didn't talk about adding him to Smash at some point. I wouldn't be all that surprised to hear Activision asked Nintendo to save Crash for last, just so he can send everything off with a bang.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

That's the thing, who's keeping track? Because in Pac Man's case, you could imagine a global, journalistic effort keeping tabs on the exciting, new arcade craze. What we now call the Golden Age of Arcades. I can expect most arcade owners keep careful track of how much money a particular machine brings in, but do they ever report such numbers? Does anybody ever care to ask? Probably not in the twenty first century. My brother and I pumped eight dollars into a Terminator rail shooter yesterday, who's going to report that? I don't think anybody ever will.

Gacha games are another medium that falls into the "how does one quantify success" metric. Like Fate/Grand Order has made a shit tonne of money (though apparently not as much as some Chinese Gacha game I've never heard of), would it be the weirdest thing if Saber got into Smash. People would scream no Anime characters, but the series started off as a Visual Novel. If people can consider Phoenix Wright (whom I'd personally love more than most characters) then why not a Fate character? It's a pretty massive franchise.

[Perkilator]

What are your 5 hopes for CP11? For me:

1. Sora
2. Crash
3. Bandana Waddle Dee
4. Dr. Eggman
5. Phoenix Wright