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Fighter’s Pass Vol. 2: One day, our wallets just disappeared; 2 chances left for your most wanted

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44 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

another JRPG of similar scope (like Tales, Trails, or Ys) that could add massive soundtracks, a new franchise, and exciting new stages. 

I'd be inclined to think after two JRPG sword additions that another in a pass would be unlikely. Gotta give the love to other genres other than the most self-centered one of all (and I say that as a fan of the genre, with some likings of all of its franchises which I have so far played).

45 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

We already basically had Xenoblade's greatest hits,

XC1 as the best game is debatable.

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1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

It's not a bad pick, but it's not a great one. The value add of another Xenoblade rep is way smaller than another JRPG of similar scope (like Tales, Trails, or Ys) that could add massive soundtracks, a new franchise, and exciting new stages. 

I'd say this one is mostly making up for a previous mistake. Given its success Xenoblade 2 deserved to be in the main game and Sakura seemed to sheepishly agree when he told us the development of Smash just started too soon to incorporate. 

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd be inclined to think after two JRPG sword additions that another in a pass would be unlikely. Gotta give the love to other genres other than the most self-centered one of all (and I say that as a fan of the genre, with some likings of all of its franchises which I have so far played).

XC1 as the best game is debatable.

Yes, yes it is debatable. But I was referring to the soundtrack when I said greatest hits.

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1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Yes, yes it is debatable. But I was referring to the soundtrack when I said greatest hits.

Soundtrack-wise? XC2 does have some good ones, but being a sequel when the first game already was already a standout, trying to capture musical lightning in a bottle twice is difficult. Although I think they on the whole succeeded in attempting that.

XCX's music is an acquired taste... but it's surprisingly grown on me.😅 Not the NLA theme (which even then I admit is understandable for its setting), nor the flight theme, but Into the Forest has drawn me in.

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18 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

the NLA theme

This and the one where an enemy gets the jump on you are the only ones i really don't like at all. Other than that, i think X is pretty well set with music.

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28 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Soundtrack-wise? XC2 does have some good ones, but being a sequel when the first game already was already a standout, trying to capture musical lightning in a bottle twice is difficult. Although I think they on the whole succeeded in attempting that.

XCX's music is an acquired taste... but it's surprisingly grown on me.😅 Not the NLA theme (which even then I admit is understandable for its setting), nor the flight theme, but Into the Forest has drawn me in.

Right. But that's not quite what I was saying. The best (and most frequently used) songs in XC2 were already there. So the value add... is less than it could be.

 

Also, I wasn't saying that we should get another JRPG rep this pass after Pyra. Though frankly, I still think a Falcom rep is a must. I was saying a new JRPG franchise should have been repped over a 2nd Xenoblade.

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10 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Right. But that's not quite what I was saying. The best (and most frequently used) songs in XC2 were already there. So the value add... is less than it could be.

Was not aware of this, due to not having Smash U. (Again, just because for someone who doesn't have NS Online, doesn't have IRL friends, and got Smash 4, and isn't a hardcore fighting game fan, it just isn't worth the $60 + DLC.)

12 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Also, I wasn't saying that we should get another JRPG rep this pass after Pyra. Though frankly, I still think a Falcom rep is a must. I was saying a new JRPG franchise should have been repped over a 2nd Xenoblade.

I can empathize with the underlined sentiment, although I personally would have done without Sephiroth then. Sorry man whose implied dad had him inject alien cells into him while he was still in the womb, I don't actually dislike you, I offer my pity for your screwed-up life, I just dislike your inclusion in Smash at this moment. If there was more room, another Smash Pass, then I wouldn't be as critical of him, although I'd still retain a little gripe over double-repping one game in franchise of so many. 

And for the bolded, considering your name and profile imagine, I can see that. I currently have no Trails experience, but once I get the means to play the franchise, I'll throw Skies somewhere in my gaming queue. As it stands, why hasn't Namco, the Smash co-developer, added a character for their flagship JRPG series yet? Two season passes, and they still haven't gotten to that. I have some good Tales memories, it's the first of the big name JRPG franchises I ever played (ignoring a little Dragon Quest I&II GBC), so I'd be generally receptive from afar to it.

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5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Was not aware of this, due to not having Smash U. (Again, just because for someone who doesn't have NS Online, doesn't have IRL friends, and got Smash 4, and isn't a hardcore fighting game fan, it just isn't worth the $60 + DLC.)

I can empathize with the underlined sentiment, although I personally would have done without Sephiroth then. Sorry man whose implied dad had him inject alien cells into him while he was still in the womb, I don't actually dislike you, I offer my pity for your screwed-up life, I just dislike your inclusion in Smash at this moment. If there was more room, another Smash Pass, then I wouldn't be as critical of him, although I'd still retain a little gripe over double-repping one game in franchise of so many. 

And for the bolded, considering your name and profile imagine, I can see that. I currently have no Trails experience, but once I get the means to play the franchise, I'll throw Skies somewhere in my gaming queue. As it stands, why hasn't Namco, the Smash co-developer, added a character for their flagship JRPG series yet? Two season passes, and they still haven't gotten to that. I have some good Tales memories, it's the first of the big name JRPG franchises I ever played (ignoring a little Dragon Quest I&II GBC), so I'd be generally receptive from afar to it.

Tales is also important, though it seems to be a franchise on the decline if anything. I was shocked to find that ToV remaster is only just hitting a million copies. I used to think of Tales as one of the big 3 JRPGs, but it's been pretty far surpassed by FE and Persona as close contenders for that 3rd place slot (behind the obvious FF and DQ).

 

Here's hoping Tales of Arise can improve its fortunes.

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11 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Tales is also important, though it seems to be a franchise on the decline if anything. I was shocked to find that ToV remaster is only just hitting a million copies. I used to think of Tales as one of the big 3 JRPGs, but it's been pretty far surpassed by FE and Persona as close contenders for that 3rd place slot (behind the obvious FF and DQ).

Well I suppose that is one way to look at it. But I thought Berseria did well? After ToV, I do see things falling a little below snuff, particularly with what I heard of Zestiria (I skipped it). But from what I've heard I though Berseria was a return to form?

DQ is the original JRPG franchise, however, the 8 years between DQs IX and XI... well they weren't a decline, so much as a notable stagnation. DQX was a Japan-only MMO, if likely very successful because Japan eats it up. Otherwise, it was empty barring ports, remasters, and spinoffs. And thats assuming you think DQIX was good, I've heard some say that lacked the usual DQ charm, and maybe a little lacking if you didn't have WiFi back in that era where it still wasn't yet everywhere. If IX was just okay to you and you lived outside of Japan, you'd have to go back to 2004 for the last good mainline title. Thats not exactly an unending stream of boundless triumph.

And then FF had its own nadir with the XIII-XIV original version-XV era. It's revival on the mainline front... has not been entirely certified yet. VII Sequel (it ain't a "remake") isn't a de facto numbered title, it rests in a hazy limbo where it is almost assuredly is mainline, but is denied that all-important number. XIV: A Realm Reborn I've seen very positively praised, but it's an MMO that unusually gets a numbered designation when it really shouldn't, so it too is an oddity. Hopes are high that XVI finally sinks the non-MMO and numbered rockiness, but don't count your Chocobos until they hatch!

-I like establishing chronologies regarding video game franchises and whatnot.🤓 I don't mean to make too much of it, nor ignore dissenting opinions like "Zestiria/XIII was great!". Yet there is a certain pleasing drama in itself from origins, to rise, to plateau, to fall, to wishful rise again. I will do the same with their franchises if Persona 6 or XC3 (or XCX2) turns out to be a wistfully lacking or downright trainwrecks.

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8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well I suppose that is one way to look at it. But I thought Berseria did well? After ToV, I do see things falling a little below snuff, particularly with what I heard of Zestiria (I skipped it). But from what I've heard I though Berseria was a return to form?

DQ is the original JRPG franchise, however, the 8 years between DQs IX and XI... well they weren't a decline, so much as a notable stagnation. DQX was a Japan-only MMO, if likely very successful because Japan eats it up. Otherwise, it was empty barring ports, remasters, and spinoffs. And thats assuming you think DQIX was good, I've heard some say that lacked the usual DQ charm, and maybe a little lacking if you didn't have WiFi back in that era where it still wasn't yet everywhere. If IX was just okay to you and you lived outside of Japan, you'd have to go back to 2004 for the last good mainline title. Thats not exactly an unending stream of boundless triumph.

And then FF had its own nadir with the XIII-XIV original version-XV era. It's revival on the mainline front... has not been entirely certified yet. VII Sequel (it ain't a "remake") isn't a de facto numbered title, it rests in a hazy limbo where it is almost assuredly is mainline, but is denied that all-important number. XIV: A Realm Reborn I've seen very positively praised, but it's an MMO that unusually gets a numbered designation when it really shouldn't, so it too is an oddity. Hopes are high that XVI finally sinks the non-MMO and numbered rockiness, but don't count your Chocobos until they hatch!

-I like establishing chronologies regarding video game franchises and whatnot.🤓 I don't mean to make too much of it, nor ignore dissenting opinions like "Zestiria/XIII was great!". Yet there is a certain pleasing drama in itself from origins, to rise, to plateau, to fall, to wishful rise again. I will do the same with their franchises if Persona 6 or XC3 (or XCX2) turns out to be a wistfully lacking or downright trainwrecks.

Tales of Berseria sold one million copies. As it stands now, Tales is beneath Xenoblade's last two entries. FE Warriors outsold Zestiria, Berseria, and ToV Remaster.

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16 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I would've preferred Elma

Agreed.

I don't mind Pyra/Mythra, but I never played Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (and I have no intention of doing so) so I just don't really care. "Okay. …Moving on" was basically my reaction. 

I would really like for just one of the 2nd fighter pass characters to be someone I actually want without qualifiers. The only two from the 1st fighter pass that I want are Hero and Byleth, and Byleth has the qualifier: "I would've greatly preferred Edelgard and I'll only use the Edelgard palette when playing as Byleth", and I can't think of a single fighter from the 2nd pass that I want. I guess maybe Sephiroth, but I'm not a Final Fantasy fan and the only game in the series that I've played so far is FF7 Remake. 

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5 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Tales is also important, though it seems to be a franchise on the decline if anything. I was shocked to find that ToV remaster is only just hitting a million copies. I used to think of Tales as one of the big 3 JRPGs, but it's been pretty far surpassed by FE and Persona as close contenders for that 3rd place slot (behind the obvious FF and DQ).

You're forgetting the most successful JRPG by far: Pokemon. ; )

Still think Crash has good chances of making it in; he's a major name right now not to mention one of the most notable platform mascots alongside Mario and Sonic. He's also highly popular in Japan which definitely improves his odds. They may be saving him for last though, to coincide with the release of his original game in September. This year will be his 25th Anniversary, a perfect time to add him!

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15 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

You're forgetting the most successful JRPG by far: Pokemon. ; )

Still think Crash has good chances of making it in; he's a major name right now not to mention one of the most notable platform mascots alongside Mario and Sonic. He's also highly popular in Japan which definitely improves his odds. They may be saving him for last though, to coincide with the release of his original game in September. This year will be his 25th Anniversary, a perfect time to add him!

Yes, I do tend to forget Pokemon, if only because it basically sits on its own competiting with an entirely different genre - creature battling/collection. There are pretenders to the throne (much like there are so many old, dead, pretenders to FE's SRPG throne), but none are able to so much as take a piece of the pie.

 

(Also, I personally struggle to think of Pokemon as an RPG.)

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10 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Yes, I do tend to forget Pokemon, if only because it basically sits on its own competiting with an entirely different genre - creature battling/collection. There are pretenders to the throne (much like there are so many old, dead, pretenders to FE's SRPG throne), but none are able to so much as take a piece of the pie.

(Also, I personally struggle to think of Pokemon as an RPG.)

Well, you've got a party, turn-based combat, EXP, levels, and even a prestige class-esque mechanic in the form of evolution. Sounds like the makings of an RPG to me. Though admittedly, "RPG" is technically a superfluous term since most video games have you play one role or another. I think terms like "turn-based combat adventure" would be more apt. But "RPG" has been cemented in the popular imagination to mean anything remotely similar to Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy in mechanics, so I digress.

They need a Pokemon fighter who captures the concept of Evolution. Eevee would be perfect for that, as its ability to evolve into different Pokemon would give it some versatility.

Spoiler

In a future SSB, they could consider using Evolution as a means of unlocking new Pokemon fighters. For example, say you start with a Riolu instead of Lucario. By fighting battles, Riolu gains EXP, and once it gains enough EXP, it evolves and Lucario is unlocked. You can still play Riolu afterward, of course.

In that way, they could work entire families of Pokemon into Smash, using shared roster slots to indicate which evolution you want to play. Since I've suggested the crazy idea of including multiple Robot Masters as playable fighters before, I guess it wouldn't be a stretch for me to suggest a ton of playable Pokemon as well, with the caveat that a lot of those Pokemon have similar fighting styles due to being members of the same family. Like so:

  • Pichu > Pikachu > Raichu and Alolan Richu
  • Bulbasaur > Ivysaur > Venusaur
  • Charmander > Charmeleon > Charizard
  • Squirtle > Wartortle > Blastoise
  • Machop > Machoke > Machamp
  • Vulpix > Ninetales
    • Alolan Vulpix > Alolan Ninetales
  • Eevee > Vaporeon, Flareon, Jolteon, Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, Glaceon, and Sylveon
  • Tyrogue > Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, and Hitmontop
  • Ralts > Kirlia > Gardevoir and Gallade
  • Riolu > Lucario
  • Buneary > Lopunny

 

Edited by Lord_Brand

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Since we have about a total of four 1st Party Nintendo Characters in all two Fighter Passes as of right now. I might go with the two slots that could fit for Challenger Pack 10 and Challener Pack 11 are:

  1. Mike Jones from StarTropics
  2. Either Impa from The Legend of Zelda series, Shantae, Llyod Irving from Tales of Symphonia, or 2nd SNK Character

I think I'll might go with last 3rd Party Fighter be most likely and not a 3rd Different 3rd Pary Franchise rep that might need to save a slot for 2nd Bandai Namco rep or 2nd SNK character and the other one be a 1st Party Fighter.

Edited by King Marth 64

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You Want Have Fighters Pass Vol.2:

Min Min  (Arms) (June 29th, 2020)

Minecraft Characters (MC) (October 13th, 2020)

Sephiroth (FF7)( December 17th, 2020; Formal release: December 22nd, 2020)

Pyra & Mythra (XC2) (March 4 2021)

You Want Upcoming Fighters Pass Vol.2:

Stahn Aileron (TOD) (August 10 2021)

Nemesis (FE16) (December 31 2021).

Edited by Gustavo Ramirez Mella

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22 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Though frankly, I still think a Falcom rep is a must.

Olivier, Rean or Estelle would be amazing. Lloyd too, as there's no fighter with tonfas in Smash and i'd like to see how he'd play, but imho he's the least likely Trails main character.

not naming Adol because i know nothing about the Ys series

 

anyway, i'm incredibly hyped for Pyra/Mythra (although i would've liked Rex and Pyra/Mythra (a la ice climbers) better), can't wait for them to be released

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I haven't played Smash Ultimate for a quite while, but seeing Pythra being added kinda makes me want to play this game again.

At least it will be the first character from the second DLC pack I'm going to buy (purchased the pass of the first wave).

It's good to see characters again from a series I know and enjoy, and even by Nintendo.

 

A Falcom character would be indeed great, but if one makes it, then it will be Adol from Ys since he's pretty much the only real protagonist (correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not acknowledged with this series).

For myeself being a big fan of The Legends Of Heroes series I would rather love to see Estelle or Rean instead.

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1 hour ago, Yexin said:

Olivier, Rean or Estelle would be amazing. Lloyd too, as there's no fighter with tonfas in Smash and i'd like to see how he'd play, but imho he's the least likely Trails main character.

not naming Adol because i know nothing about the Ys series

1 hour ago, Jules Necrofantasia said:

A Falcom character would be indeed great, but if one makes it, then it will be Adol from Ys since he's pretty much the only real protagonist (correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not acknowledged with this series).

I know little about the series as a whole, but I played Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana, and here's what I can say about Adol: 

He has good moveset potential. His normal attacks would make good normal attacks, he already has aerial attacks, and he has a huge variety of "skills" (special attacks) that they can choose from for special attacks. He even gains the ability to double-jump from an item in the game, and he has a powerful finishing move called an EXTRA skill that would be a good final smash. Of course, his moveset revolves entirely around using a sword, so there'd be the inevitable, "He's another anime swordsman" complaints despite having the potential for a rather unique moveset.

Adol is indeed the series protagonist, and when I did some research on Ys VIII before buying it, I found out that it's the only game in the series with a deuteragonist (a deuteragonist being a secondary protagonist; in this case, the titular Dana). So, if anyone from the Ys series were picked, it would almost certainly be Adol unless they decided to go with Dana, but I think that's unlikely.

I do know that, unlike a lot of fantasy heroes, his motivation isn't from being a chosen one or getting caught up in circumstances or anything like that; his motivation is nothing more or less than a thirst for adventure, a desire to explore the world, and an unbreakable addiction to getting shipwrecked at the start of every game (the way they handled the shipwreck at the start of Ys VIII made it clear that it's usually how each game opens; the best friend character even literally says, "Ah, come on! Not again!" when it happens). Someone who's played more of the Ys Series can probably say which happens more: Adol getting shipwrecked, or Link needing to be woken up at the start of a Zelda game. But this does mean I can already see the potential announcement trailer:

Adol is on his way to Smash via ship after receiving a letter containing an invitation. On the way there, he gets shipwrecked, only to find when he wakes up that he's arrived. Perhaps Shulk even shakes his head and says, "I told you guys that this was how he was going to arrive."

There are quite a few places in Ys VIII that would make for a good new stage: there's the Lombardia (the ship that gets shipwrecked at the start), and there's a bunch of places on the Isle of Seiren (the deserted island that the characters are stranded on for the whole game) that would make for good stages. And the game has some good music, but these days I'd say that almost seems to be a requirement with JRPGs. 

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The main trouble with Adol, as I see it, is that he would play extremely similarly to most classic Tales protagonists. Estelle would probably be the best choice from a moveset perspective, if they ever want to also add Lloyd, Yuri, or other Tales protagonists. But either way, the soundtrack should be a generous collection of both Ys and Trails, as they are both full of absolute bangers.

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

I know little about the series as a whole, but I played Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana, and here's what I can say about Adol: 

VIII was my first Ys game. Whilst I like the combat, I find the overworld very confusing. I ran in circles even very early on. Xenoblade whilst having a huuuuuge overworld has a better navigation for being more widespreaded and not interlacing. Ys I on the other hand has much more simple overworld, but in exchange very frustrating bosses. Can't deny Ys's music is great, but we are talking about Falcom, and music by Falcom is traditionally greeat.

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29 minutes ago, Jules Necrofantasia said:

VIII was my first Ys game. Whilst I like the combat, I find the overworld very confusing. I ran in circles even very early on. Xenoblade whilst having a huuuuuge overworld has a better navigation for being more widespread and not interlacing. Ys I on the other hand has much more simple overworld, but in exchange very frustrating bosses. Can't deny Ys's music is great, but we are talking about Falcom, and music by Falcom is traditionally great.

Ah; by "not acknowledged with this series", I thought you had meant that you hadn't played any games in the series. My bad. 

Huh; I honestly found navigating the Isle of Seiren in Ys VIII very straightforward; early on I even felt it was weirdly very linear for a game set on a deserted island. I did use a walkthrough, but only to make sure I wasn't missing anything and that areas I couldn't reach were indeed inaccessible at that time. There were even times where I found and unlocked an optional area out of the way well before the walkthrough said, "By the way, over there's an optional and out of the way area that you can find and unlock".

The one time I will say that the walkthrough was a massive help was at one point in chapter 3 where it was like, "Okay, you know that Water & Wood Hills area you probably already entered only to leave immediately because it was full of level 50 raptors? Well, now you have enough castaways to clear some rubble in that area and find another castaway." What?! Why would they put level 50 raptors in an area with a castaway that has a quest that's only available during chapter 4? I can understand one enemy that you're supposed to avoid, like the T-Rex in that foggy area early on, but a whole pack?! I skimmed through the area, running as quickly as I could to avoid enemies, just so I could find the rubble and clear it to find the castaway (it was the girl who makes the vegetable juice item). 

When it comes to exploration and navigation, I will say that Xenoblade Chronicles X beats Ys VIII, but I think Ys VIII beats Xenoblade Chronicles 1, but I'm someone who tried to like Xenoblade 1 and ultimately didn't like it. I plan on making a review of Ys VIII that compares it to Xenoblade Chronicles 1 a lot once I'm done playing Ys VIII (I'm currently on chapter 6: the last chapter before the endgame stuff). 

I wouldn't know about Falcom music; Ys VIII is probably the only game they've made that I've played. 

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I'm not a Xeno fan, but I'm pretty happy with Pyra and Mythra getting into Smash. Even I felt hyped when I saw the reveal for the first time.

I don't know if I'll get the pack myself, but I think it's neat regardless. 'Grats to Xeno fans.

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As much as I would love to see Estelle or Adol (or anyone from one of Falcom's series really) with only two slots open left it's looking very unlikely for that to happen. Also, I don't really see them doing three RPG characters in a row. For the last two DLC characters I predict one of them is going to be a more well known third party character that would be the E3 reveal (though I don't know if they are bringing that back this year) and the last one is probably going to be a Gen 8 Pokemon because DLC cycles usually ends on a low note with a first party character. So in other words I'm keeping my expectations low since Fighter Pass 2 has been nothing but a disappointment in my eyes with all their character choices thus far.

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2 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

I don't know if I'll get the pack myself, but I think it's neat regardless. 'Grats to Xeno fans.

😁 yup! Perfect attitude, here.

Edited by lightcosmo

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