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Choose Your Legends Round 4 Official Discussion Thread!


DefyingFates
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Will you vote in CYL Round 4?  

156 members have voted

  1. 1. Where will your votes go?

    • I'm not voting.
    • I'm (mostly) voting for a Three Houses character/s.
    • I'm (mostly) voting for a Heroes OC/s.
    • I'm voting for someone from an earlier game.


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2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

If you want my honest opinion, I think both waifu factor and husbando factor plays into FE Heroes, and likely from Awakening up to now. Possibly all the games that featured some type of self-insert placeholder for the player (so I'm including Blazing Sword in this) have more "waifu factor" than the others driving which characters are popular and why.

I'm not saying that waifuism and husbandoism was never present in the older games, because I'm not. I'm also not saying that people nowadays don't have a favorite character without that character being their "waifu" or "husbando". I was never into that crap even when I was a kid, and I know other people genuinely like the characters without wanting to bang them. But with the self-insert placeholders that we call avatars being a thing, and letting your avatar marry everyone, this has only encouraged people who are into that to do so more, and it feels like it's getting harder and harder to look at characters we like objectively. In a way, it feels like we have some "need" to prove that the characters we like most are "the best, better than the others" and in some extremes that they're flawless and did nothing wrong. Or that a character has to be physically attractive to be popular and sometimes that's all they need.

At the very least, there's a reason why people are crying about waifuism. And husbandoism but I do realize that people are crying about it less.

And it's definitely a fair take. 

But now that you bring this... how we can like something objectively thought?

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14 minutes ago, Troykv said:

And it's definitely a fair take. 

But now that you bring this... how we can like something objectively thought?

Maybe "objectively" wasn't the best word to use, but what I meant was being able to admit that a character that we like has some faults and other people have very legitimate reasons to dislike them. The best way to explain this may be by an example, so here goes:

I legitimately like Reinhardt as a character, not as a meme and not just as an OP character. Sure, being OP did get my attention, but simply being powerful in Heroes does not mean I will like them. I used Xander a lot when the game started because he was a good tank even though I hate him and still hate him now. I went through the entire last TT using Itsuki and Igrene (after I pulled her on the Chill banner) even though I have no strong feelings for them because they were so powerful they killed everything. I don't use characters I like such as Eirika and Innes as much because they're a bit underpowered.

So why do I like Reinhardt as a character? I looked through his quotes in Heroes, looked through the entire script of Thracia, talked to a friend who has played Jugdral, and I think that he is a pretty well done character who may not have gotten direct characterization in the game, but there are subtleties you can read into him that can be supported by using some psychology and common sense. He's supposed to be this noble, well-respected knight that everyone respects. He's very close to his country's princess and one of her most trusted men. If Friege were on the right side of the war, he'd be the Seth to Ishtar's Eirika. But Friege is not.

You have a man that should be your typical honorable, noble knight fighting on the side of his country on the wrong side of the war. And it makes you question whether it is really honorable and just to stay loyal to a country and liege that is on the wrong side. If it's cowardice to stay on the side of wrong when even your own sister tells you that what they're doing is wrong. But it also brings up questions like did he feel like he could switch sides to begin with? Did he feel like he was too far gone to leave Friege now? Did some part of him still feel loyalty to Ishtar and Friege even though he was dismissed? Is the fact that Ishtar herself is a Camus and a decent person (aka Reinhardt's direct commander is not a douchecanoe) make it more difficult for him to betray Friege and Ishtar? 

Also add to the fact that he was apparently Ishtar's guard when he was a child. FE's ages are wonky (and Jugdral's even more so than usual), so it's possible that he's not even very old, I estimate mid-20s. How long has he been serving as a soldier to Friege and Ishtar's bodyguard? Is it easy for someone who grew up expecting to be a loyal soldier to even think for themselves, even if all the signs say that your side is in the wrong? Has he become so desensitized to all the horrors of warfare in general that all he really knows now is to follow orders? His WoT self explicitly says that he "lacks passion", is this an indicator that he knows his side is wrong but feels he is unable to betray his side? Does he have more pressure on him due to being an elder son over his younger sister who just got out of military school?

Like, these are all complex issues that are never directly said in the game, but you can still infer them through common sense and knowing and people's psychology and it gives me an appreciation for a character who spoke very little and didn't exist for much in the story. But at the same time, I can understand why people don't like him (as a character). I can understand why people think he's a coward or boring or dumb or think that he cannot be forgiven for staying in the wrong. I appreciate that people can feel that way. That's what I mean by looking at a character objectively. You respect all their faults, you don't think that they were always in the right, and you understand and respect that people will dislike them. Sometimes even for the reasons you like them.

I just feel like there are too many people who want to justify their favorite from all criticism without realizing that the fact that a character has faults or people may not like that character for the reasons you like them doesn't necessarily make them bad, or even if it does that it's all right to still like them.

EDIT: Big-ass wall of text, only tangentially related to the main topic. Sorry.

Edited by Sunwoo
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46 minutes ago, Troykv said:

*Sigh* Well, unless you get every single Fire Emblem fan into some kind of concetration camp and tells them that the only way of escape is through telling which their favorite character, it's impossible to know how much "waifu culture" affected certain characters.

 

And come on, "Husbando" factor also exists; do you think Dimitri would be the most popular male character he wasn't a punished damaged boi with mental issues (I mean, do you remember pasta boy)?  Okay, maybe not the most noble thing to say, but whatever.

 

20 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

If you want my honest opinion, I think both waifu factor and husbando factor plays into FE Heroes, and likely from Awakening up to now. Possibly all the games that featured some type of self-insert placeholder for the player (so I'm including Blazing Sword in this) have more "waifu factor" than the others driving which characters are popular and why.

I'm not saying that waifuism and husbandoism was never present in the older games, because I'm not. I'm also not saying that people nowadays don't have a favorite character without that character being their "waifu" or "husbando". I was never into that crap even when I was a kid, and I know other people genuinely like the characters without wanting to bang them. But with the self-insert placeholders that we call avatars being a thing, and letting your avatar marry everyone, this has only encouraged people who are into that to do so more, and it feels like it's getting harder and harder to look at characters we like objectively. In a way, it feels like we have some "need" to prove that the characters we like most are "the best, better than the others" and in some extremes that they're flawless and did nothing wrong. Or that a character has to be physically attractive to be popular and sometimes that's all they need.

At the very least, there's a reason why people are crying about waifuism. And husbandoism but I do realize that people are crying about it less.

I do think husbando factor was an important fact in the vote and that was actually the reason for my post.

Allow me to explain my previous post better: I was actually calling out to certain fans who were angry that Dimitri won previous polls and were claiming that Dimitri won only due husbando factor, and now that Edelgard won the poll, they’re bragging about how “this dispel the myth that Edelgard isn’t popular” or bragging that waifu factor doesn’t play a part as for why Edelgard is popular while husbando factor is the reason why Dimitri is popular.

I wanted to point out their hypocrisy.

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1 minute ago, Water Mage said:

 

I do think husbando factor was an important fact in the vote and that was actually the reason for my post.

Allow me to explain my previous post better: I was actually calling out to certain fans who were angry that Dimitri won previous polls and were claiming that Dimitri won only due husbando factor, and now that Edelgard won the poll, they’re bragging about how “this dispel the myth that Edelgard isn’t popular” or bragging that waifu factor doesn’t play a part as for why Edelgard is popular while husbando factor is the reason why Dimitri is popular.

I wanted to point out their hypocrisy.

I see, though while I understand the potential hypocrisy of waifu vs husbando... the thing about the other point is actually a bit more complicated.

I understand the situation personally of some Edelgard fans because I have actually seen people being a bit too deluded about Edelgard's popularity, call it into question because in certain polls certain characters (Lysithea and Bernadetta, in some cases also Hilda and Byleth) were more popular than Edelgard in these contexts, and some wanted to make it look like facts, that Edelgard "failed" like Corrin or something like that.

And that delusion is very annoying.

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13 minutes ago, Troykv said:

I see, though while I understand the potential hypocrisy of waifu vs husbando... the thing about the other point is actually a bit more complicated.

I understand the situation personally of some Edelgard fans because I have actually seen people being a bit too deluded about Edelgard's popularity, call it into question because in certain polls certain characters (Lysithea and Bernadetta, in some cases also Hilda and Byleth) were more popular than Edelgard in these contexts, and some wanted to make it look like facts, that Edelgard "failed" like Corrin or something like that.

And that delusion is very annoying.

I do completely understand that, but what annoys me is that Edelgard fans have become extremely defensive and whenever someone criticizes Edelgard they hound the person until they accept that Edelgard is a perfect person who did nothing wrong. This is particularly bad on the Fire Emblem reddit where when someone criticizes Edelgard, there’s a defense squad ready to justify her every action, though this place and reddit are different.

I also want to say that I don’t want to generalize Edelgard fans, I’m talking about a particular group and a particular Edelgard stan(I’m sure some of you knows which Edelgard stan I’m talking about). I know most of her fans aren’t like that.

Edited by Water Mage
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5 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I do completely understand that, but what annoys is that Edelgard fans have become extremely defensive and whenever someone criticizes Edelgard they hound the person until they accept that Edelgard is a perfect person who did nothing wrong. This is particularly bad on the Fire Emblem reddit where when someone criticizes Edelgard, there’s a defense squad ready to justify her every action, though this place and reddit are different.

I also want to say that I don’t want to generalize Edelgard fans, I’m talking about a particular group and a particular Edelgard stan(I’m sure some of you knows which Edelgard stan I’m talking about). I know most of her fans aren’t like that.

I don't think anyone I know wants to consider Edelgard a perfect person (and to be fair that removes part of the charm; Petra without her weird english commentary and her "exotic charm" it would be quite forgetable because she is technically "perfect" otherwise), but I understand where are you coming from.

Some people get very heated with those discussions.

Edited by Troykv
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I see that there are people still complaing about CYL results and still hope that will get something from it, like some type of compensation in the Feh Channel... That's sad.

Guys... Please, stop. Accept it and move on. Everyone knew that it would happen since half a year ago.

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5 hours ago, Othin said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Spoiler

Right, I forgot that there's two characters whose name appears in three games.

 

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15 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Revealing clothing isn't necessary to be considered a waifu so no fanservicey outfit isn't an issue. Scratches the itch of strong powerful ruthless woman which is really lacking in Heroes (or FE in general really since the only other one that comes to mind is Petrine) Lord status makes her an easy pick compared to other waifus and the version of her that's already in is a fantastic unit so that makes her even more enticing.

Those are all things only people who played Three Houses would know about her, and wouldn't influence Heroes only players to "waifu" her over any Heroes original characters who are featured prominently in the story mode. To Heroes only players, Edelgard is just a random axe unit on one banner, so it doesn't make sense that they would massively vote for her for superficial reasons over characters they're more familiar with. Not to mention the version that had more votes according to the interim results was the War Arc version which isn't even in Heroes, so they'd have to be voting for a version of her they didn't even know existed for the claim to make any sense.

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25 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

Those are all things only people who played Three Houses would know about her, and wouldn't influence Heroes only players to "waifu" her over any Heroes original characters who are featured prominently in the story mode. To Heroes only players, Edelgard is just a random axe unit on one banner, so it doesn't make sense that they would massively vote for her for superficial reasons over characters they're more familiar with. Not to mention the version that had more votes according to the interim results was the War Arc version which isn't even in Heroes, so they'd have to be voting for a version of her they didn't even know existed for the claim to make any sense.

You would be shocked about how there so many people that are fans of a character’s design despite knowing nothing about them. Why do you think Plumeria did so well in the CYL poll? 

Edited by Water Mage
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17 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

You would be shocked about how there so many people that are fans of a character’s design despite knowing nothing about them. Why do you think Plumeria did so well in the CYL poll? 

This is true, but I think we can safely say Dimitri and Edelgard's popularity come more from their personalities and character arcs than just their looks. Those may have played a small part, sure, but aren't the defining reason why people sing their praises.

(Also, I agree that their flaws are just as important as anything else and ignoring them just comes off as blind worship.)

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9 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

@Book Bro Also, since Academy and War arc votes were being combined anyway, it was simpler to click "back" on the "vote by game" and Three Houses War Arc was the first thing to come across. 

Yeah and as we learned last year through Find and Vote, this player base is collectively much more stupid than I thought has a tendency to pick the closest option available.

So, that reasoning is on point I’d say.

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Plumeria, wow did she perform well and we've known about her for what a few weeks?  I voted for her too, so I'm not complaining.  Hope we get her soon, maybe a summer bikini one would also be nice.  For purely story reasons of course!

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40 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

@Book Bro Also, since Academy and War arc votes were being combined anyway, it was simpler to click "back" on the "vote by game" and Three Houses War Arc was the first thing to come across. 

It would be interesting if we could get a baseline Academy vs War arc vote ratio, by comparing either the total votes for each arc or those of characters like the teachers who don't change much between arcs (if those characters still showed up twice) but I don't think that sort of de-combined information is available.

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2 hours ago, Book Bro said:

Those are all things only people who played Three Houses would know about her, and wouldn't influence Heroes only players to "waifu" her over any Heroes original characters who are featured prominently in the story mode. To Heroes only players, Edelgard is just a random axe unit on one banner, so it doesn't make sense that they would massively vote for her for superficial reasons over characters they're more familiar with. Not to mention the version that had more votes according to the interim results was the War Arc version which isn't even in Heroes, so they'd have to be voting for a version of her they didn't even know existed for the claim to make any sense.

You're forgetting that their banner came out to advertise the game. They make it clear that the 3 lords are lords, leader of their respective class (we even got new castle skin to represent said classes), and heir to the throne. It would take an idiot to not realize that they are indeed the main characters. Also, does Edelgard not have any dialogue or something? All you would need to do is click on her in the status page, use her in battle, or tap on her in the castle to get info on what kind of person she is. And there's enough there that shows ruthless and assertive nature from "All obstacles will be crushed...without exception" to "Remember who I am. I am Edelgard von Hresvelg, and I am sworn to help you vanquish your enemies" Also, voting for superficial reasons is exactly what many do already. As others have said Plumeria did really well for only having like 3 lines of dialogue and last year there was Lif and Thrasir who also had next to no lines of dialogue. As for the war version, maybe people saw this new version they didn't know existed and were intrigued by it? Or maybe not. It's not like I'm arguing that she got first place from waifu enthusiasts alone.

Edited by NegativeExponents-
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2 hours ago, Water Mage said:

I do completely understand that, but what annoys me is that Edelgard fans have become extremely defensive and whenever someone criticizes Edelgard they hound the person until they accept that Edelgard is a perfect person who did nothing wrong. This is particularly bad on the Fire Emblem reddit where when someone criticizes Edelgard, there’s a defense squad ready to justify her every action, though this place and reddit are different.

 

That's a massive strawman. Even on the Edelgard subreddit, no one argues she's a perfect person who did nothing wrong. Nor do Edelgard fans hound Edelgard haters until they submit. Maybe you're looking at some huge outlier but this would be hasty generalization.  

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1 hour ago, Othin said:

It would be interesting if we could get a baseline Academy vs War arc vote ratio, by comparing either the total votes for each arc or those of characters like the teachers who don't change much between arcs (if those characters still showed up twice) but I don't think that sort of de-combined information is available.

 

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52 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

That's a massive strawman. Even on the Edelgard subreddit, no one argues she's a perfect person who did nothing wrong. Nor do Edelgard fans hound Edelgard haters until they submit. Maybe you're looking at some huge outlier but this would be hasty generalization.  

I talking about a particular group of users that defend Edelgard whenever someone criticizes her on the Fire Emblem. 

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2 hours ago, Water Mage said:

You would be shocked about how there so many people that are fans of a character’s design despite knowing nothing about them. Why do you think Plumeria did so well in the CYL poll? 

Plumeria is exactly what you're claiming happened with Edelgard. She's the new, attractive, fanservicey character and so Heroes players rallied around her like they did with Loki last year.

The claim that Edelgard had the most votes because a lot of them were probably waifu votes from people who didn't play 3H assumes that not only did a significant amount of Heroes only players pull her, but they also found her non fanservicey design attractive enough to use her, liked her personality from level up lines more than original Heroes characters who feature in story mode, chose to vote for her War Arc form due to convenience or curiosity, and that there was enough of them voting to successfully push her over Dimitri as the top scorer. It's a lot of assumptions that make no sense considering people who haven't played 3H have no reason to care about her when the game they are playing, Heroes, just introduced a bunch of new characters that are specifically designed for the waifu crowd they could vote for instead.

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7 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

Plumeria is exactly what you're claiming happened with Edelgard. She's the new, attractive, fanservicey character and so Heroes players rallied around her like they did with Loki last year.

The claim that Edelgard had the most votes because a lot of them were probably waifu votes from people who didn't play 3H assumes that not only did a significant amount of Heroes only players pull her, but they also found her non fanservicey design attractive enough to use her, liked her personality from level up lines more than original Heroes characters who feature in story mode, chose to vote for her War Arc form due to convenience or curiosity, and that there was enough of them voting to successfully push her over Dimitri as the top scorer. It's a lot of assumptions that make no sense considering people who haven't played 3H have no reason to care about her when the game they are playing, Heroes, just introduced a bunch of new characters that are specifically designed for the waifu crowd they could vote for instead.

You seriously underestimate how people can come to love character based only on few voice lines, a picture and some few quotes. Did you ever play other gacha games? Gacha games with mostly original characters? Because those characters have nothing more that a picture, some quotes and a few voiced lines and a lot of them have massive fandoms. Again you seriously underestimate how many people can come to love a character they barely know anything about.

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On 1/29/2020 at 10:48 PM, eclipse said:

How about. . .

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Edelgard's siblings die of some sickness-or-other instead, so she no longer has a reason to want everyone in the church dead.  She survived because she happened to be visiting Faerghus when the plague broke out, and the message to stay there got to her in time.  Thus, she's also on good terms with Dimitri.

Dimitri's biggest downfall is dancing, something that Edelgard's naturally better at.  He, in turn, spars with he regularly.  The two have a friendly rivalry, since the number of sparring matches each has won is equal.

Claude is the emissary that's familiar with the other two.  His mother made frequent diplomatic trips, and always insisted on bringing her son along, so he'd know what to expect out of Fodlan.  Being the heir of two different nations is something he doesn't divulge, but he'll gladly out-shoot Edelgard and Dimitri.  He's also the one that got them into trouble while they were younger.

Several weird coincidences occurred five years after graduation - Arianhod was wiped off the map, the weird plague resurfaced in Enbarr, and people are up in arms over Claude being half Almyrian.  The three meet back at the monastery where it all began, and divide up the tasks equally - Edelgard's troops will help out Claude, since she has allies there.  Claude's forces are airborne, so they'll assist Dimitri in his investigation.  Dimitri's forces will help out in Enbarr, since they are familiar enough with the last time the plague came around their parts.  Through each piece of the puzzle, they'll learn of the Slithers, find traces of them within their own ranks. . .and then Three Houses REALLY begins.

. . .what do you mean, rewrote the plot?

 

I just wanted to say, I really wish we had a united route based on this. I'd love to see how that ends!

On 1/31/2020 at 1:36 PM, omegaxis1 said:
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I hope this puts some of the belief that Edelgard is not popular or is not as popular as Dimitri to rest. I expect plenty to realize this fact. 

 

I'm not going to go too much further on this since others already have and I've only just caught up with this thread but I wanted to get my 2 cents in.

Granted I wasnt around here when the game released (I was terrified of getting spoiled), but I was always under the impression that she was always popular? Divisive to be sure, but even her detractors seemed to agree that she was a good well written antagonist even if they personally didn't like her. And she had all the marketing and I guess the "waifu" factor going for her as well. Even with the vocal hatedom after the game came out, I never thought she was unpopular; unpopular characters dont drum up that kind of discussion and discourse. Whether is more positive or negative is subjective, but clearly shes always had a spotlight. 

And I'd say Dimitri had way more struggling to do to gain his current popularity; he was seen as the least interesting and popular lord from the beginning and only started making a splash when the E3 trailer hit, and even then it wasnt until people played the BL route that he really started to shine. And even after that, people still kept downplaying his popularity, despite being 1st place in every official and fan poll since, as if somehow it having more female votes and only chalking it up to "husbando" factor meant that it was invalid and didn't count for anything.

I think it's pretty clear that both are popular enough to win first in their respective divisions and not at a huge disparity in votes from each other. They have both won in popularity contests (Edelgard scores better in VG and CYL, Dimitri scores better in 3H polls, neither of which are the ultimate best way to truly gauge exact popularity due to many variables such as polling size and 7 votes for series wide characters), they are both equally popular and I really wish people would just accept it and move on. I dont know why we cant just be happy for our winners and have to nitpick and needle each other over why so and so won and whether it was only waifu/husbando factor or not.

I like them both and am happy for both, but I gather that's not the popular opinion. Well, along with the anti 3H salt. *sigh*

On 1/31/2020 at 2:43 PM, daisy jane said:
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Dimitri needs his wife. Let us begin. 

 

Byleth (and her twin brother) did just win Smash. I think Dimitri winning CYL has brought them balance for the time being lol.

I'm actually not fully sure who I'll be voting for next year, but if I cant think of anyone else to spend on I'll probably toss her (and Eirika) a few votes for good measure. 

But if FE4 remake becomes a thing, I may end up being sucked in that direction.

Edited by Silver Lightning
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7 hours ago, Water Mage said:

I talking about a particular group of users that defend Edelgard whenever someone criticizes her on the Fire Emblem. 

I do think I know which people you're talking about, and I agree that they can be aggravating. Reading their comments, sometimes it feels like only their interpretations of characters are correct and any disagreement is a sign that you simply "don't understand them" (and the possibility of having to deal with their debates turns me off of any discussion about Edelgard, period) but I think saying that they hound people is a bit extreme IMO. 

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