Byleth Character Opinion Thread(Spoiler to Ch. 10)

[Ashe02]

Not to be dramatic, but I would kill for Female Byleth. 

[NekoKnight]

Byleth has a strong start in the school phase but there are three problems that plague his character:

1. Byleth, in an attempt to let players project themselves onto a blank slate, has (virtually) no personality or experiences to define them. They're 21 years old at the start of the story but they know nothing about the world (highly implausible as a mercenary) and can't pin down basic facts or experiences (he's ambivalent about Jeralt being his father or not, and can't commit to an answer when asked "Have you ever fought pirates" as if that would be destroying someone's fanfic). Byleth SHOULD be a more fleshed out character according to what the game says he is, but they pretend he's an unthinking robot who was activated only a day before. Also, concerning his stoicism, people at the monastery treat Byleth with more warmth and trust than they normally should be considering how different he is from others.

2. Byleth's story arc ends with the school phase. After that, you're more or less along for the ride with whichever lord you picked. There are a few moments when you can contradict this, such as Byleth trying to rein in feral Dimitri or disagreeing with Claude's anti-Rhea stance, but in general, Byleth doesn't really have a motivation or anything unique to contribute beyond supporting whatever the lord is doing.

3. There is a lot of player worship. It's not quite as bad as Alm and Corrin in regards to fake flaws being mentioned (Alm's recklessness) or worse, praised (Corrin's naivete) but they're treated with a lot more trust and reverence than they really deserve. As mentioned before, people should be slow to trust Byleth because he's an inhuman weirdo, but that doesn't happen. Battles and even the success of the war are often attributed to Byleth when you just play a small part. Right at the start of the war phase, Byleth is the reason why the war will tip in favor of one faction, and considering they really offer little that other characters aren't doing already, it comes off as wholly unreasonable.

I would place ranks the avatars Robin >>> Byleth >>>>>>Corrin. He has some growth to start with and his mercenary background gives some credence to his skill in battle and tactics but his lack of agency in the latter half of the game and the narrative erasing his personal experiences and opinions to the point of absurdity really drags down his character, and it wasn't even necessary.

Edited January 30, 2020 by NekoKnight

[Icelerate]

13 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I would place ranks the avatars Robin >>> Byleth >>>>>>Corrin. He has some growth to start with and his mercenary background gives some credence to his skill in battle and tactics but his lack of agency in the latter half of the game and the narrative erasing his personal experiences and opinions to the point of absurdity really drags down his character, and it wasn't even necessary.

I think it would be good if Byleth can question some of Edelgard's decisions such as keeping the Arianrhod secret from everyone or revealing it just to the BESF. I think instead of killing or sparing Claude, a better option would be to imprison him or let him go because it is OoC for Edelgard and Byleth to just execute Claude when Edelgard had no problem imprisoning Rhea and the coup instigators. So letting Byleth potentially change the outcome depending on player choices would make him better. Same with the other routes but I'm not as familiar with them. 

17 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

3. There is a lot of player worship. It's not quite as bad as Alm and Corrin in regards to fake flaws being mentioned (Alm's recklessness) or worse, praised (Corrin's naivete) but they're treated with a lot more trust and reverence than they really deserve. As mentioned before, people should be slow to trust Byleth because he's an inhuman weirdo, but that doesn't happen. Battles and even the success of the war are often attributed to Byleth when you just play a small part. Right at the start of the war phase, Byleth is the reason why the war will tip in favor of one faction, and considering they really offer little that other characters aren't doing already, it comes off as wholly unreasonable.

 

He wields the Sword of the Creator which is hyped to be strong enough to slice mountains and is made out of Sothis, a goddess. That is a game changer. It's no different to Naruto's intervention in the war arc or Pain arc changing the tide of war single handedly due to sheer power. Byleth is also a huge morale booster, and according to Edelgard, a better strategist than her. 

[NekoKnight]

Just now, Icelerate said:

I think it would be good if Byleth can question some of Edelgard's decisions such as keeping the Arianrhod secret from everyone or revealing it just to the BESF. I think instead of killing or sparing Claude, a better option would be to imprison him or let him go because it is OoC for Edelgard and Byleth to just execute Claude when Edelgard had no problem imprisoning Rhea and the coup instigators. So letting Byleth potentially change the outcome depending on player choices would make him better. Same with the other routes but I'm not as familiar with them. 

It could go either way for sparing or killing Claude. Remember that Edelgard also believes that a leader shouldn't fight if they were going to surrender eventually anyway because it's a disservice to all those who died fighting for that cause.

Just now, Icelerate said:

He wields the Sword of the Creator which is hyped to be strong enough to slice mountains and is made out of Sothis, a goddess. That is a game changer. It's no different to Naruto's intervention in the war arc or Pain arc changing the tide of war single handedly due to sheer power. Byleth is also a huge morale booster, and according to Edelgard, a better strategist than her. 

There is a matter of showing and telling that is at fault. While the Sword of the Creator is allegedly super powerful, it doesn't seem like that's actually how well Byleth can use it. It's certainly not true in gameplay that Byleth is soloing armies and in cut scenes, he fails twice while fighting difficult opponents (twice vs Thales (or once vs Rhea) when Byleth can't save Jeralt and gets knocked off a cliff. As for Byleth being a master tactician and motivator, that's kind of a player worship thing justifying more player worship. Byleth motivates people because he's just oozing charisma and wisdom (not really), and he's the smartest person in the army (not really) so of course the war can't go on without him.

[Icelerate]

2 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

There is a matter of showing and telling that is at fault. While the Sword of the Creator is allegedly super powerful, it doesn't seem like that's actually how well Byleth can use it. It's certainly not true in gameplay that Byleth is soloing armies and in cut scenes, he fails twice while fighting difficult opponents (twice vs Thales (or once vs Rhea) when Byleth can't save Jeralt and gets knocked off a cliff. As for Byleth being a master tactician and motivator, that's kind of a player worship thing justifying more player worship. Byleth motivates people because he's just oozing charisma and wisdom (not really), and he's the smartest person in the army (not really) so of course the war can't go on without him.

He also has divine pulse to rewind time, which can allow him to perfect the strategy, except when the plot demands he can't use it. I agree too much telling and not showing but isn't that the problem with most FE games? However, I think RD does a pretty good job of this as Zelgius was able to turn the tide of war after showing up in part 3 and Micaiah is also capable of doing things of that nature in part one and to some extent even part 3. Would you say RD handled this point better? In Zelgius' case, he had his strength and charisma while in Micaiah's case she had her fortune telling and charisma. Soren also helped to turn the tables for the laguz alliance even though they'd have been screwed without him due to his strategies. 

4 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

It could go either way for sparing or killing Claude. Remember that Edelgard also believes that a leader shouldn't fight if they were going to surrender eventually anyway because it's a disservice to all those who died fighting for that cause.

 

I personally don't buy the argument that Edelgard executes her political opponents especially when she doesn't have any beef with Claude like she does with Rhea and Aegir. 

[vanguard333]

5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

He also has divine pulse to rewind time, which can allow him to perfect the strategy, except when the plot demands he can't use it. I agree too much telling and not showing but isn't that the problem with most FE games? However, I think RD does a pretty good job of this as Zelgius was able to turn the tide of war after showing up in part 3 and Micaiah is also capable of doing things of that nature in part one and to some extent even part 3. Would you say RD handled this point better? In Zelgius' case, he had his strength and charisma while in Micaiah's case she had her fortune telling and charisma. Soren also helped to turn the tables for the laguz alliance even though they'd have been screwed without him due to his strategies. 

Ah, when will we ever get an FE game whose story is on par with (or surpasses) Path of Radiance?

I agree that Radiant Dawn handled the whole someone-turning-the-tide-of-the-war a lot better, and I agree that Micaiah (Joan of Arc that can see the future) and Soren (Master Tactician) are great examples. But I'm not sure if Zelgius counts:

It was Zelgius and his outright massive army, which had also crippled the Bird-Tribe part of the Laguz Alliance prior to showing up, that did indeed turn the tide of the war. Even then. it wasn't a hopeless fight until Skrimir disregarded the plan and fought Zelgius one-on-one. So, it was really two-fold: the massive army, then Zelgius' quick-thinking. One without the other would not have completely turned the tide in Begnion's favour. 

[Dinar87]

I loved Byleth and the whole of Three Houses really. Haven't bothered to watch Mekkah's videos and likely never will, since it's all opinion based anyways since I really enjoyed what they did with byleth compared to robin and corrin.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Byleth is... boring.

I really like the idea of getting to choose your dialogue, and sometimes it matters. But not most of the time, so it feels like a waste.

Also they never speak audibly, in a world where everyone else does. Conversations feel... disjointed. They should have a voice.

If they're not supposed to speak, we should at least get to see what they're thinking. That happens sometimes pre-skip, with our back-and-forth with Sothis. When she leaves, we lose Byleth's closest thing to a conversation partner. Would've loved to hear what she thinks about us trying to help save Dimitri, or assisting Edelgard in her war. And the "we lost her voice when we fused" rationale doesn't work IMO, since we still hear her just after the skip, and if you S-rank her.

Finally, I really would have preferred some customization. I'm fine with keeping a Sword boon, and a Faith budding talent, but the player should get to choose two other boons and banes, to better customize each playthrough. These could impact growths, too. Also custom appearance, I get that we have cutscenes, but we can already adjust Byleth's looks to mismatch the cutscenes through the DLC.

[Deathcon]

7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Battles and even the success of the war are often attributed to Byleth when you just play a small part. Right at the start of the war phase, Byleth is the reason why the war will tip in favor of one faction, and considering they really offer little that other characters aren't doing already, it comes off as wholly unreasonable.

 

6 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

As for Byleth being a master tactician and motivator, that's kind of a player worship thing justifying more player worship.

Considering that yes Byleth does strategize the War Arc, and most likely the Academy Arc for his house, he should get praised even if it is all the player's doing, because the player IS Byleth. You think they shouldn't be praised after either beating half the game or nearly the whole game especially if they lost no one? This is justified player "worship" and a actual character trait shown through gameplay.

7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

twice vs Thales

Both where he got the jump on him and the one with Jeralt Thales was defending and teleporting away Kronya so wasn't really a fight. He also soloed Nemesis for a minute and, after Claude provided a distraction and pierced his arm, destroyed his sword and killed him. Who I will say is more dangerous than Thales even canonical wise.

7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Byleth motivates people because he's just oozing charisma and wisdom (not really), and he's the smartest person in the army (not really) so of course the war can't go on without him.

Considering Byleth literally taught them all they know I think he is wise and smart. Even in supports Byleth helps with their student's problems and answers them.

[NekoKnight]

42 minutes ago, Deathcon said:

Considering that yes Byleth does strategize the War Arc, and most likely the Academy Arc for his house, he should get praised even if it is all the player's doing, because the player IS Byleth. You think they shouldn't be praised after either beating half the game or nearly the whole game especially if they lost no one? This is justified player "worship" and a actual character trait shown through gameplay.

Do they actually though? Most of the cutscenes in the war phase have other characters discussing the battle plans, with Byleth merely agreeing with what they say (and if you get dialogue options for how you want to proceed, the game still railroads the dialogue because there aren't alternate mission paths). It's a lot different than say Robin, who's actively involved in the strategy making outside of gameplay. The point is, while Byleth isn't tactically inept, there is little to say that they're so much better than the other characters in the cast that they're essential to break the stalemate. 

47 minutes ago, Deathcon said:

Both where he got the jump on him and the one with Jeralt Thales was defending and teleporting away Kronya so wasn't really a fight. He also soloed Nemesis for a minute and, after Claude provided a distraction and pierced his arm, destroyed his sword and killed him. Who I will say is more dangerous than Thales even canonical wise.

Again, it's another presentation issue. Gameplay doesn't provide much evidence in regards to Byleth's overwhelming superiority in combat and out of combat, we see him get thwarted twice. Byleth is good but not "can single-handedly turn the tides of a war" good.

51 minutes ago, Deathcon said:

Considering Byleth literally taught them all they know I think he is wise and smart. Even in supports Byleth helps with their student's problems and answers them.

"Teaching them literally everything they know" is a gameplay mechanic, and actually contradicts another mechanic in that Byleth can teach people skills that even Byleth doesn't know. As far as supports go, most of what Byleth says to people is not exactly groundbreaking advice. The supports are largely the other person talking and Byleth giving fairly stock answers.

"I can't follow my dreams because of reasons"
Byleth: You should follow your dreams anyway.

"I have this emotional hang up"
Byleth: That sucks, but I believe in your ability to overcome it.

And again, referring to what the game says is Byleth's personality, characters love Byleth even though Byleth has little emotion, personal convictions or even experiences to reference. They are simultaneously a blank slate but also the best friend and mentor to the whole cast. 

 

 

 

[Jingle Jangle]

For me Byleth is one step forwards and one step backwards compared to previous FE avatars. One step forward by being in a more fleshed out world with characters less* (mostly in part 1) dependent on him. It helps that there is no character on the same level of pandering as Camilla.  Being a stoic mute person is a good change of pace compared to previous main characters. Even though it can make certain supports awkward. Making Byleth a professor is a smart idea since he can get close to students without being a student himself. 

However at the same time Byleth continues the trend of avatars by the story and characters bending over backwards for him. With the Garreg Mach section boosting Byleth's ego in part 2 of how cool and awesome is is. All the overpowered upgrades through the game.  No characters can be in a relationship during the game due to Byleth has able to marry everyone. the fake "yes" or "yes"responses feel that Byleth has more say than just choosing a house or Edelgard.

[Icelerate]

8 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Again, it's another presentation issue. Gameplay doesn't provide much evidence in regards to Byleth's overwhelming superiority in combat and out of combat, we see him get thwarted twice. Byleth is good but not "can single-handedly turn the tides of a war" good.

 

This Reddit post should shed light on why the tide of war was turned due to Byleth's intervention. Read the last couple of paragraphs. 

[NekoKnight]

40 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

 

This Reddit post should shed light on why the tide of war was turned due to Byleth's intervention. Read the last couple of paragraphs. 

Divine Pulse is certainly a strong advantage that could lead to Byleth's superior performance in the war. That said, I'm a little hesitant to cite Divine Pulse as a valid reason because the plot is shaky about when Divine Pulse can be used (like a certain scene in AM where Byleth doesn't use it to save someone).