What Lord Pairings do you Think got better plot development?

[Fabulously Olivier]

24 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

You do remember that Lethe starts off bigoted against Beorc, and doesn't really change unless you have her and Jill support? Also, there's the fact that they have limited interactions in the story. As far as plot development is concerned, Marcia and Ike have more than Lethe and Ike, and Elincia and Ike have more than both of them combined. 

Ike starts off bigoted against Laguz, out of naivety, and quickly gets over it on exposure to more Laguz. It's the same character arc, at different paces and for different races.

 

I disagree that she only gets over it through Jill, but even if I were to concede that, she still does grow past it.

[vanguard333]

39 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Ike starts off bigoted against Laguz, out of naivety, and quickly gets over it on exposure to more Laguz. It's the same character arc, at different paces and for different races.

 

I disagree that she only gets over it through Jill, but even if I were to concede that, she still does grow past it.

What?! Whaaattt?! Ike doesn't start off bigoted against Laguz; he starts off completely ignorant of them and only refers to them as "sub-humans" because he didn't know any other name for them (because he was told about them by Shinon and Soren) and didn't know that was a bigoted term. The moment that he is told that that is the case, he promptly apologizes, explains his ignorance, and asks Ranulf what the non-bigoted term is. Ike doesn't have a bigoted bone in his body; he doesn't even understand the mindset behind bigotry, and I don't say this lightly: you saying that he starts off bigoted suggests to me that you seriously misunderstood that part of the story and his character, and it's a pretty significant piece. 

Ike's character arc has nothing to with bigotry, as he is never bigoted. Ike's character arc is all about getting stronger and filling in his father's shoes as head of the mercenary company, and from that, growing as a leader until he ends up leading the Crimean Liberation army, and getting stronger until he becomes the best swordsman in all of Tellius; achieving the skill that Greil had in his prime. That is Ike's character arc. What part of Lethe's character arc has to do with getting stronger or filling into a leadership role that was unexpectedly thrust upon her?

By the way, a character arc being all about growing into a leadership role unexpectedly thrust upon them, as well as growing stronger; why does that sound familiar? Oh, right; that's also Elincia's character arc (albeit in her case, the stronger part has far less to do with physical strength). 

Edited January 23, 2020 by vanguard333

[Geenoble]

8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Ike and Soren isn't a romantic pairing; it's well-established to be a strong friendship.

To be fair, in the original Japanese Script, Sorens dialect in the End 5 Base convo shows that he seems to feel some sort of affection for Ike. In the Tellius Memorial collection it also states 「互いの心をひとつにした」, which according to my great knowledge of Japanese (and google translate) means something like ‘They’re hearts were united as one’ which isn’t necessarily romantic in the sense but shows that Soren cares a great, albeit unhealthy and obsessive deal for Ike. Of course the English translation changed this and Soren doesn’t seem to care for Ike in a romantic way in that conversation, but other parts seem to be somewhat littered in the script.

Ike never necessarily shows any signs of romantic affection to Soren however (or anyone for that matter) so Ike x Soren is very clearly not canon. I always imagined Ike as being asexual anyway. 

—

On topic of Sigurd and Deirdre, i feel like it wasn’t supposed to be written as some compelling romance. It was obviously hurt by the Snes but i feel the writers moreso wanted to use the relationship as a way to make the tragedy surrounding them more impactful.

[Mylady]

Of the list, Alm x Celica and Micaiah x Sothe are the most developed. Not my favourites but they are the most recent canon pairings and get more screen time in their respective games.

 

14 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I would've also suggested Eliwood x Ninian because that may as well be a canon pairing.  And I mean, if there's one "canon pairing" I would support if it was considered such, it'd be that one.

Eliwood x Ninian is clearly not canon. I for once prefer Eliwood x Fiora because Ninian is actually very annoying in the game and I don't like how her role is mainly being a damsel in distress to be saved by Eliwood. She has a better ending returning with her brother instead of dying because she is thristy for a dick.

 

11 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Ike and Soren isn't a romantic pairing; it's well-established to be a strong friendship. Before anyone points out that they leave Tellius together if they both have an A-Support in Radiant Dawn, the same thing happens with Ranulf and Ike, and I doubt anyone would genuinely argue that there's anything romantic between Ranulf and Ike; Ranulf is even an Ike x Elincia shipper:

Most people interpret Ike x Soren as being a romantic pairing, so it's not "well established" that they are just friends. But obviously it's not canon considering that there's other options 

[Flere210]

I don't like Sothe x Michaia because Mich pretty much raised him. The difference in age and the fact that she know him since he was a child make it looks.

Also, i am leaning Soren, but Ike has as much interest in romance as Monkey D. Lufy.

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, Geenoble said:

To be fair, in the original Japanese Script, Sorens dialect in the End 5 Base convo shows that he seems to feel some sort of affection for Ike. In the Tellius Memorial collection it also states 「互いの心をひとつにした」, which according to my great knowledge of Japanese (and google translate) means something like ‘They’re hearts were united as one’ which isn’t necessarily romantic in the sense but shows that Soren cares a great, albeit unhealthy and obsessive deal for Ike. Of course the English translation changed this and Soren doesn’t seem to care for Ike in a romantic way in that conversation, but other parts seem to be somewhat littered in the script.

Ike never necessarily shows any signs of romantic affection to Soren however (or anyone for that matter) so Ike x Soren is very clearly not canon. I always imagined Ike as being asexual anyway. 

True. I'm just saying that, since that's restricted to only the one version of the game (in the rest, as you pointed out, it was dialed back and made obviously more like just close friends), and even in that version, it never goes beyond ship tease (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShipTease), it is about as canon as Ike x Elincia, which is to say not canon. It could arguably even be considered comparatively less canon (if less or more canon is even a thing) than Ike x Elincia because there's even less evidence to suggest it. 

Funny enough, as you said, Ike never seems to show romantic affection for anyone because of, well, how he is around people. But, there are just a few moments that could be interpreted as him showing romantic affection for Elincia (in his own way) in the NA Localization of Path of Radiance; the most notable example being Ike's angry rant at Empress Sanaki, during which he abandons all of his usual professionalism and simply refers to Princess Elincia as "Elincia"; Elincia even gently teases him about it afterwards, to which Ike replies that he didn't realize he said it and he'll be more careful. If they A-Support, Ike says this:

Ike: You employed me as a mercenary. I’ll give you your money’s worth! …No. It means more than that… To my last breath, I will do all that I can to ensure your dream… Elincia.
Elincia: Oh, Ike…

 

27 minutes ago, Mylady said:

Most people interpret Ike x Soren as being a romantic pairing, so it's not "well established" that they are just friends. But obviously it's not canon considering that there's other options 

I think you're exaggerating when you say "most"; from what I've seen, it's mainly about 40% at most. As I and Geenoble have pointed out, in two versions of the game, they are explicitly just close friends, while the third hints at romantic attraction on Soren's part, but none on Ike's. 

It's not canon because, even in the original Japanese version, it never goes beyond ship tease. There's no confirmation of romance or anything. Ike doesn't have "options" as he's never confirmed to end up with anyone in any ending. And before anyone points out Priam's existence means Ike must've ended up with someone, Marth is considered Anri's descendant despite actually being descended from Anri's brother, so, for all we know, Priam could actually be Mist's descendant (also, if Priam is in fact Ike's descendant, Ike having a blood-descendant would disconfirm Ike and Soren unless Soren found a spell that could make himself into a seahorse). 

 

Funny enough, for all that Ike never seems to show interest in anyone or really notice when someone's showing interest for him (unless it's Aimee, in which case he either runs for the hills or hides under a desk), he is very good at noticing when people have romantic attraction towards someone else. He suspects as much of Haar towards Jill, and once he meets Micaiah for the first time, he deduces the true nature of their bond very easily. 

[Mylady]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

I think you're exaggerating when you say "most"; from what I've seen, it's mainly about 40% at most. As I and Geenoble have pointed out, in two versions of the game, they are explicitly just close friends, while the third hints at romantic attraction on Soren's part, but none on Ike's. 

It's not canon because, even in the original Japanese version, it never goes beyond ship tease. There's no confirmation of romance or anything. Ike doesn't have "options" as he's never confirmed to end up with anyone in any ending. And before anyone points out Priam's existence means Ike must've ended up with someone, Marth is considered Anri's descendant despite actually being descended from Anri's brother, so, for all we know, Priam could actually be Mist's descendant (also, if Priam is in fact Ike's descendant, Ike having a blood-descendant would disconfirm Ike and Soren unless Soren found a spell that could make himself into a seahorse). 

 

Funny enough, for all that Ike never seems to show interest in anyone or really notice when someone's showing interest for him (unless it's Aimee, in which case he either runs for the hills or hides under a desk), he is very good at noticing when people have romantic attraction towards someone else. He suspects as much of Haar towards Jill, and once he meets Micaiah for the first time, he deduces the true nature of their bond very easily. 

Well, every topic and poll I've seen about the issue, Ike x Soren is brought up and is the winner romance option for both characters, winning by a great margin so I believe it's majority that interpret this way. There's margin to interpret it as platonic friendship, but theres strong shipping tease with the two though.

Yeah, canon pairings are just default or confirmed romances, which is clearly not the case of Ike x Soren, Ninian x Eliwood or most Fire Emblem romances no matter how popular the ships are.   

Edited January 23, 2020 by Mylady

[X-Naut]

23 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Whichever one has the most interactions, so probably the one everyone's voting for.  I've scarcely played Radiant Dawn, but that pairing's got to be better than the sorry attempts at romance the other canon pairings are.

Seriously, I've seen a lot of fans say they want to see more "canon pairings", but is that really the hill they want to die on?  Marth x Caeda, in all its roughly 10 existing lines of dialogue glory (not counting New Mystery)?  I know a lot of romance in the series ranges from mediocre to dumpster fire awful, but at least there's actually something more to optional pairings than just "hey, I met you and now I want to f*** you".  Setsuna's romances have more effort put into them than most of these romances.  And that's just sad.

Even if they don't get many opportunities to speak Marth and Caeda get plenty of moments through other characters in Shadow Dragon. Recall how Caeda insists that her bodyguard focus more on protecting Marth's life than hers? Or how she recruits several enemy soldiers that introduce themselves to Marth afterwards.

And I wouldn't mind seeing more canon pairings in the series, most of them are in older games where the writing was a lot thinner. I'd like to see them take a step back from in-game shipping for one new title, it's not like its absence will stop people from making up their own ships.

[Jotari]

Sothe and Micaiah seem the obvious choice, but I find it hard to really call it development as they don't really develop. Where they start off is where they end in that regard. I also feel like it's more platonic in nature.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Jotari