Advice on Golden Deer Maddening (no NG+)

[Crysta]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm not saying it's unreasonable. I'm just saying that before I move on up, I'd at least like a few completed runs under my belt. Is that seriously too much to ask? I at least want to know what I'll be up against, rather than blindly charging in. This being said, would you take someone who insists Raphael is good on Maddening seriously? Because I can't help but laugh at that notion.

I would, at the very least, be willing to listen to their argument without laughing if they’ve touched Maddening.

Certainly would not argue with them if I had no experience with Maddening, since it really is a different beast. A lot of your arguments - particularly your assertion that there’s only a couple good units on the Deer roster - makes me lol more.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Crysta said:

I would, at the very least, be willing to listen to their argument without laughing if they’ve touched Maddening.

Certainly would not argue with them if I had no experience with Maddening, since it really is a different beast. A lot of your arguments - particularly your assertion that there’s only a couple good units on the Deer roster - makes me lol more.

Now you're going and putting words in my mouth. I never, ever said they only have a few good units. Only that at least two of them are obvious weak links.

[Crysta]

8 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Now you're going and putting words in my mouth. I never, ever said they only have a few good units. Only that at least two of them are obvious weak links.

My bad, you said nearly half are “virtually useless”. I was way off the mark.

[Burklight]

Having just completed a BL NG maddening run, I can compare Raphael to Dedue to give a pretty good estimation of what Raphael is good at, and the answer is not much. Dedue is amazing right out of the gate as literally the only unit in any house who can tank stuff at base thanks to his passive. Raphael can't do that. Beyond the early game utility that Dedue gives, they're essentially the same unit. If you can get him to 40~45 defense, which isn't totally unreasonable, He can safely tank non bow physical damage. Bows will wear anyone down thanks to poison strike. Magic will probably ORKO him. If he goes WM and gets QR, will possibly survive one round vs magic damage.

So basically, he's good at a very specific niche if you're willing to put in the work. I'd recommend dodge tanking, as it's significantly more reliable than someone who will get worn down quickly by poison strike and instant killed by magic. He's good as a brawler adjunct. 

[hdawgsizzle]

Wow this thread turned to absolute sh*te while I was away. Super entertaining read to come back to though! Let me see if I can focus the thread a bit:

A lot of your suggestions have really worked out really well for me so I want to thank everyone who has contributed again! I'm currently up to chapter 10 and have been really cruising along. The main story difficulty really dropped a ton after Miklan, though some of the paralogues have kept the challenge up. So far I've done Sylvain's, Lorenz's, Sothis's, Ingrid/Dorothea's, Seteth/Flayn's, Raphael/Ignatz's, and Felix's. A lot of them are really tough if you try to do them right away, but waiting even one/two weeks can really make things a lot easier. I tried doing Lorenz's right when it became available and I just didn't have enough firepower on my team to really deal with the enemies. I could have warped Sylvain to the boss and killed with Lance of Ruin but who doesn't want that sweet exp? Kill. Every. Last. One. of. Them. Seteth and Flayn's was probably the easiest though. Nothing really tricky about that map like the ambush spawns at the end of Ingrid's or the pseudo time limit on Sylvain's or dealing with the idiotic NPCs on Raphael/Ignatz's. Next month I'll knock out Shamir/Alois's and Ashe/Catherine's. I skipped the Anna paralogue, so this is a clean no dlc/no online/no amiibo run. That doesn't mean much though - I feel like that would be a much bigger accomplishment if this were conquest or something

Here are my thoughts on the units so far:

F!Byleth - Pegasus Knight 

Byleth has been incredible as always. Her stats really are tailored to going Falcon Knight. She's ridiculously fast and still hits pretty hard. I've been using swords with her as opposed to lances, so she might drop of slightly as everyone else picks up their -faire skills in their advanced classes. Still, she has so much going for her I don't see her really suffering all that much. Additionally, she's sipped all the tea in China and her Charm stat is a bonkers 35 or something right now. Only issue is her weapon ranks. It's a bit of an odd concern since she has higher flying and authority than anyone else on the team and her swords are almost at A as well, but getting her lance rank up to B+ (it's currently ~halfway through C+) is going to be a massive pain. Especially since she'd ideally like to get her authority up ASAP to start using the Cichol Wyverns instead of the Galatea Knights which Claude or Hilda need. Plus she doesn't have time to raise axe ranks so she's been stuck in Pegasus Knight purgatory for 7 more levels. I usually don't care to make my Falcon Knights go Wyvern Rider in the interim, but Byleth mastered her classes and got death blow and darting blow so quickly that it feels like a bit of a waste to keep her in a class with worse growths for 10+ levels (aka long enough for the growths to start mattering). Overall she's an incredible unit for sure and it's been fun to switch things up and try F!Byleth instead of M!Byleth this run

Claude - Wyvern Rider

Claude's good. He's a lot faster than I was expecting him to be and that weirdly makes him a lot "bulkier" than a bunch of my other units since not getting doubled goes a long way. I got him Death Blow and Hit+20, and then came time to move him to an advanced class. I was really torn between Sniper and Wyvern Rider for him, but ended up choosing Wyvern Rider just to have more fliers. I'm not sure it was the right choice. Flying Encloser is incredible and made the Hanneman/Manuela paralogue much easier, and this gives me a taste of what Claude will be like as a unit for the rest of the game. But at the same time losing the extra bowrange is not great, and I find situations where I'd prefer the extra range, especially since Claude isn't getting doubled by enemy archers, I'm losing someone who can take them on enemy phase. I can't quite make up my mind on Claude. Sometimes he's my best unit, other times he's kinda mediocre. I'm sure all of that goes away once he gets into his personal class though

Hilda - Wyvern Rider

God Hilda has been through the most arduous class path, as I forced her to master Soldier, Brigand, Archer, and Pegasus Knight so I could have Reposition, Death Blow, Darting Blow, and Hit+20. She's only been a wyvern for a few maps but I think it's all starting to pay off. She absolutely needed the Hit+20 because even with it she still sometimes struggles with hit rates. But finally I've got her on a wyvern and she's tearing it up again. Now to get her authority up so she can use Galatea Knights...

Marianne - Dancer

This probably doesn't seem like much of a compliment but she's definitely the best dancer I've used. Solid unit and the sword avoid is nice on a unit that can actually train swords easily. Might get her the Swordmaster certification for some crazy boost like 11 strength and 7 defense, but she's never going to see combat so probably not necessary. The few times she isn't dancing she can still Physic and Silence so she's always providing some utility. I'd like to get her the 4 person dance gambit but I believe that isn't until like chapter 18 or so on this route... And that still requires bringing Dorothea/Manuela to a near endgame map when I'm not using either. Also it really bugs me the way the gambit works and it really should be like he four person galdr in Tellius. But I digress...

Leonie - Sniper 

Well she failed her 67% Sniper exam four weeks in a row, so she's been stuck in intermediate classes for way too long. She was incredibly useful in the early game and she's somewhat fallen off a bit, but I'm hoping that now she's in an advanced class she'll be back up to speed. I'll say she's a lot tankier than people give her credit for. She's really fast so she isn't doubled too often, and she can actually take a few hits. I think she's just on the cusp of greatness. I just gave her a better battalion and she just got her -faire and she's about to get Point Blank Volley, so her damage output is about to skyrocket.

Lysithea - Bishop

So earlier I ranted about how Lysithea is much worse on Maddening. I do stand by that statement. I think she really struggles in the early game on this mode and I think she's going to continue to have a few issues until roughly around time skip. She's gotten a lot lot better since I last posted though. She can actually one shot a decent number of enemies now, which means that she's not a liability I have to play around anymore. She's gotten Warp since last time which I still think is incredibly situational on maddening, but can help in some of the paralogues. Getting her to an advanced class shot her strength and res bases up a ton so now she can at least handle enemy mages. She's starting to be as good as she was on hard mode. I really do think that anyone who refers to her as the best unit in the game is way overhyping her though. She's a bit weird to describe. I wouldn't call here a high investment unit, because that would imply you actually have resources to invest and make her better. There's not that many stat boosters early game, and even if you got one from gardening every week and fed it to her I'm not sure it'd really make that much of a difference in patching up her weak early game. Even once you get her magic up to one shot range she still struggles with hit rate and that's not getting fixed until you get her a good battalion... which isn't available until later in the game. You could feed her a bunch of dex boosters but then she's not one shotting anything. Thyrsus is also like this - once she gets it she'll be much better, but it's weird to call that "investment" when it greatly improves her viability in an instant. It's strange - if you want to use her you kinda just have to accept that there's going to be a long period where she's just okay. I'm glad she's starting to pick up now. 

Ignatz - Sniper 

Anyone who doubts Ignatz's abilities need to gtfo immediately. This dude is the hidden gem of three houses for sure. That extra hit rate goes such a long way in the early game. It's such a huge relief to have a unit on the team that I know will actually hit things when I have Hilda, Lysithea, and Sylvain whiffing everything. As I've said before, having that extra hit rate on gambits is so incredibly useful in the early game when you need to immobilize large groups of enemies, and it allows him to continue using offensive gambit way deeper into the game than nearly all of my other units. It's not a full substitute for charm - Claude, Hilda, and Byleth are going to be better with gambits in the long run - but I'm currently in a spot in the game where the amount of damage a gambit does really does not matter in the slightest and you're only using them to immobilize groups, so he's still very viable. I forget which one but he also has a gambit that gives +7 charm so that's nice as well. As a sniper his damage output is very nice, and he's able to double a lot of enemies. Soon he'll get Hunter's Volley and will be even greater. Because he only needs Bows and Authority his weapon ranks are also way higher than the rest of the team and eventually he'll be able to get the extra bow crit and bowfaire. Even without the second bowfaire, Hunter's Volley will do a lot to keep him at the top of the pack despite a 35% strength growth: Bowfaire+Death Blow+Raphael Adjutant is going to give him 28 extra damage with Hunter's Volley, which is insane. Even then, his strength is only a few points lower than even the strongest units on the team (20 Str vs Felix's 24)

Lorenz - Paladin 

I want to give a huge thank you to whoever told me to make Lorenz into a Paladin in between Mage and Dark Knight. Frozen Lance just murks everything in one shot. It's especially nice for handling those grapplers with tomebreaker. Lorenz has really surprised me a lot this run. He's never been a top tier unit on this team, but he's really pulled his weight a lot and he's solidly above the weaker links on the team. He's also much much tankier than I anticipated him being, especially when on the res side. I have the heavy armor ranks to recruit Ferdinand, so I might train Ferdie up to be Lorenz's guard adjutant. I don't know how often I'll get to use the adjutant since it seems like Lorenz will be fighting with Ignatz and Sylvain for adjutant slots - Ignatz wants Raphael for a strength boost, and Sylvain wants Ingrid to help his hit rate/guard him because despite his defense growth he's disappointingly frail. 

Mercedes - Bishop

She's great, as always. Incredible healer. Maybe a bit underrated in her damage dealing capabilities. I really don't have anything as far as a "build" goes for her. She has fiendish blow and Reason Prowess and a bunch of extra garbage. I suppose her build really doesn't matter for the most part though. Magic Range+1 would be nice though

Sylvain - Paladin

Oh boy... He's kind of a disaster to be honest. I just reclassed him into Paladin so maybe he'll be better with a -faire. He's also not too far away from getting swift strikes, so I guess it won't matter that his strength and speed are both garbage. I got Hit+20 for him too so that should help... But overall he's super underwhelming so far. He fell off a bit towards the end when I used him on hard mode, but this is way earlier than I was having issues with him last time. As for the Ferdinand vs. Sylvain debate people were having here earlier: Ferdinand. 100%. His personal skill is so much better and you can use a goddess ring/spear of assal to make sure he's always topped off on HP. 

Petra - Pegasus Knight

She's incredible. I recruited her in Ch. 8 which gave her a decent amount of time to autolevel, but enough time for her to grab Death Blow and Darting Blow before time skip. She hits super hard and she has 30 spd right now which is absolutely bonkers when my next fastest unit has maybe 25. Overall she's fantastic and I'm super happy with how she's turning out

Felix - Brigand

I recruited him earlier this month and I have to say that getting him up to D+ axes for brigand was a lot more effort than I thought it'd be. His recruited stats are really great, but I'm a bit worried about his weapon levels - everyone else has B+s and As in their weapon types and he currently has C+ Brawling D+ Axes, so it's going to be a huge push to get him into War Master. Sadly I don't know how feasible it is to get him Fist Crit +10 or a second fistfaire, both of which he would have liked immensely. We'll see. I haven't used him too much yet

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Okay now onto address some of the posts on the thread

On 1/31/2020 at 1:38 PM, Crysta said:

I just finished my Golden Deer maddening game and uhhh you’ll appreciate Lysithea a lot more by endgame.

You were right!

On 1/31/2020 at 10:31 AM, SpiceMan said:

Black Eagles early game f**king sucks though. Caspar can't do any damage with gauntlets, Ferdinand can't avoid tank yet and lacks Dimitri or Sylvain's strength for one shots with Tempest Lance, Hubert and Dorothea have shit accuracy and Dorothea doesn't have more than 4 thunder uses until C rank (from D) or level 5, which she won't reach before then because she can only kill 4 times a map with 70 accuracy. Bernie's alright but all she does is curved shot which anyone can do. Your only reliable units are Byleth, Edelgard and Petra. 

To quote a very wise NPC: "Is it the Dawn Brigade?"

But in all seriousness the Dawn Brigade is unfairly scrutinized and they don't take nearly as much effort to use as people often say. Serenes Forest really fucked them over because the "average stats" pages for Radiant Dawn are calculated wrong and drastically underestimate unit average stats. Dawn Brigade gets it the worst because they have so many levels to grow. I had very little issue using Edward on Maniac Mode and having taken him to endgame on six separate occasions I'll say that he consistently ends up better than Mia, Soren, Nephenee, Shinon, Titania. He might honestly be the fourth best Beorc after Haer, Ike, Jill. Maybe Sothe if you really value units who can help for 10 chapters and then can't even get deployed in the final map because they get one shot. Edward's early game isn't even bad. He's the only unit that doubles so he has he highest DPS on the Dawn Brigade outside of Sothe. His light affinity is also sorely needed on Maniac Mode where Nolan desperately needs the extra defense and hit to do well. If you say that you prefer Zihark because he's "less investment" then you're really only making the game harder for yourself. Zihark really can't gain exp during part 1, and by the time he's back for part 3 he's really not all that useful anymore. Eddy's going to outclass Zihark by 1-endgame, which is really only three chapters since they can't be fielded during 1-9. Even in the interim 1-6, 1-7, 1-8, Eddy has the benefit of an easy B support with Nolan while Zihark won't have enough support points for supports yet. It's also bonkers to me that people often say that the Dawn Brigade in general takes so much investment and then in the same breath tell me to give my Seraph Robe and Dracoshield and Energy Drop and Paragon to Jill. Lmao

😉

On 2/1/2020 at 1:24 AM, SpiceMan said:

Sylvain technically gets 3 more strength than Ferdinand because of his personal which is really useful early game as it makes him stronger and gives him enough defense to where he can act as a solid off tank. Also he has a 40% chance of doing 5 more damage on a combat art, which i'm not going to weigh heavily as that requires luck on a combat art which should ideally be killing anyway, but there are situations where that extra 5 damage can come in very handy. It's also quite useful on swift strikes later on for 2 chances. So it's not just 1 strength 

It was helpful when using curved shot where I wasn't really trying to kill, but I would agree that these "extra damage on a combat art" and "no retaliation on a combat art" skills are bad bc you really want your combat arts to be killing most of the time.

On 2/1/2020 at 7:11 AM, Shadow Mir said:

I find this...

  Hide contents

...easier than trying to beat Maddening with a house where almost half of my initial units are virtually useless (it ain't as though Golden Deer magically skips chapter 13). Same for this...

  Hide contents

 

I see that you seem to be unfamiliar with the actual toughest spirit battle:

Very very very fitting that the toughest challenge in the game would be F-Zero related. Need a new F-Zero game injected into my bloodstream ASAP

On 2/1/2020 at 11:36 AM, SpiceMan said:

Sounds to me like you're just not giving the "virtually useless" units a chance. If you actually used them you'd see they have a lot of merits. Ignatz is a capable archer, one of the best i'd say because of his hit+40. He has the second highest dex and luck growths slightly behind Shamir meaning he will have a lot of crit. Pick up death blow from brigand and go Sniper and I don't see any problem with him as a unit. Hunter's volley will carry him and his amazing hit and crit will help him kill the bulkier ones too. Rally speed at D rank is insanely useful and has saved me so much on my run. being able to make a unit who couldn't double, double or one whose getting doubled stop getting doubled is amazing.

Lorenz has bulk. I know a lot of his haters like to pretend he doesn't but he does. He also has accurate high might spells and a good personal. He has the second highest hp growth in the team at 55%, a 30% def growth and a 40% res growth. He is capable of being a solid 1-2 range unit who can tank enemies on enemy phase as well as deal big damage on player phase (especially if you get Frozen Lance). From his paralogue you get Thyrsus which you can trade around your mages in battle to let all of them benefit from it. However if you want to get benefit even more from it Lorenz makes incredible use of the Pavise and Aegis effect. Him having more Hp than Defense means that the half in damage is even more important than if he was def focused. I don't know what the activation rate is so if anyone knows that would be cool but it seems to be around 40% from my experience. If you're worried about him getting doubled he is one of the prime candidates for a guard adjutant, as most of your bulky units who could need it go flyer which can't use them. If you choose Ferdinand as his guard adujtant he can also get 2 more damage which is a nice benefit. He learns Recover at C which is the best way to fully heal someone until your main healer gets to bishop with a healing staff. Finally he has great proficiency for getting into Dark Knight which is ideally where most mages would like to end up, it's just that for some units like Lysithea and Dorothea the investment isn't worth it compared to other options.

Exactly! Both are really excellent and Maddening has really opened my eyes to how even just the tiniest niches that they have can take them a long way. I also think that Maddening definitely forces you to work around a lot of issues that your units have, and when you understand how to patch up their weaknesses the game can really reward you. Ignatz has low strength? Give him a Raphael Adjutant and use Hunter's Volley. Stuff like that isn't viable on hard because all of your units are fast enough to double everything so you don't end up exploring all that much that the game has to offer. I can't really speak to Raphael since I benched him, but that wasn't a decision I made because I found him to be super bad or anything. Raphael is definitely usable and he contributed when he was around. I just really wanted to use War Master Felix because I love war masters and I love Felix. 

On 2/1/2020 at 11:36 AM, SpiceMan said:

Next topic: Golden Deer being overall easiest. So obviously pre-timeskip the difficulty is basically the same. I'd argue that Black eagles have it hard at the very start and Blue lions have it easier but some disagree. It's funny that you mention GD having to do Chapter 13 because I think that's the easiest version of it by far. A flying trained Claude is much better than a non flying Dimitri or a non trained Seteth. Ashes and Dust is so stupidly broken it can trivialize the start of the map. Wave attack is not as good because it requires Dimitri to be surrounded to work efficiently, Claude can easily fly past and pin everyone down without even being in harms way. Dimtiri's swordbreaker is nice but the most dangerous enemies are the Silver bow snipers which will still hit him. Claude can pick them off and canto out of range while Byleth white magic avoids. The initial reinforcements are all trained unlike Gilbert in blue lions so you can get them all to work immediately. Gilbert has a steel axe and can't hit for shit. Mercedes and Annette can't move from their spawn because of the assassins and brawlers so you really only have Ashe to properly help you (Unless you did Wyvern Annette of course). Leonie will normally be a mounted unit of some kind and Hilda is always made a wyvern so they can easily get out to help, plus they have the bulk to take a hit from the lower enemies anyway.

Chapter's 14-16 are basically the same, although flying lord on chapter 15 is nice. Playing Golden deer on chapter 17 means you don't have to fight a 7 move 3 range menace like the Blue lions do. Dimitri is scary, but he has 5 move and can be windsweeped/one shot easily. Claude is hard to approach. Both Chapter 18's can be finished very quickly as they are boss kills with a close commander, but if you choose to play both properly Cornelia's fight is much harder with all the long range magic and powered up Titanus. Plus there's the Talthum bow which you might want to wait for.

The siege on Enbarr for Golden deer can be done quickly as killing Hubert and the DK is easy when you're spawned right near them. Blue lions have to work their way up from the bottom, dealing with all the reinforcements and siege weaponry, not to mention lots of Bolting. That's a consistent thing in BL, lots of long range magic that other routes don't have much of to deal with. Oath of the Dagger is a very difficult map that I couldn't get through without losing some units even with max divine pulses. To contrast that both The city without light and A new dawn were fairly easy maps I could take my time with. No ridiculous amounts of ranged magic and no reinforcements either(If you kill Oddeus quickly which I did on turn 1 with Leonie). BL final map has Bolting mages as reinforcements when you enter Edelgard's room and they keep coming.

Interesting to hear this - I obviously can't give my opinion since I haven't played the timeskip for GD yet or BL maddening at all, but I thought it was near unanimous that BL was the easiest route. You definitely make some great points as to why that's maybe not the case.

On 2/1/2020 at 12:37 PM, AxelVDP said:

also, maddening is actually EASY, on every house. I beat maddening with a no grind no dlc no ng+ no online no cross recruits and probably forgetting something else Crimson Flower route, which has probably the worst starting roster of all the houses, since most of your units are squishy mages with no enemy phase to speak of. Ferdinand turned out to be my best unit by FAR, and this is due to his personal skill.

people are beating maddening in no growths run, a shitty team is hardly a handicap.

you just gotta learn to abuse the broken mechanics the game offers you (gambits (both offensive and support gambit are broken), avoid tanking (oh hi Ferdinand) and so on)

Hmmm... Maddening has been a ton of fun and has definitely calmed down difficulty wise since Ch. 5, but I'd hesitate to ever tell someone it's easy. I actually saw some dude on twitter who called it "goo goo ga ga baby mode" and that honestly kinda pissed me off. Well it mostly pissed me off because he said that and nearly all of his units had died so I don't know how well that's going to go for him in the long run. But I mean there's definitely a reason you're proud to say that you beat it no grind no dlc no ng+ no online etc. because there's at least some semblance of a challenge and an accomplishment and maybe a sense that you did what the average person could not. I've been super proud of my no online no dlc no ng+ all students recruited all paralogues 100% run so far because it's taken a lot of planning to actually pull off some of those things. Like I said, having to detour to get heavy armor and brawling for Ferdinand and Caspar was tricky to pull off while also keeping Byleth on pace to hit her class goals and do enough activities to keep my professor level up. To recruit everyone in time I had to dump a ton of extra gold into buying gifts for the students and that kept me pretty low on cash for a very long stretch of the game. I think it was the designer of the game Civilization that said that fun = # important decisions/time, and I think Maddening has given an extra weight to a lot of the decisions I'm making in this game. 

On 2/1/2020 at 1:55 PM, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Doesn't Thyrsus just give Aegis and Pavise as though they were on a unit's skill bar, so it'd be Dex%?

I've seen a lot of conflicting info on if this is Dex% or tied to your crest and I'd love to know the answer!

On 2/1/2020 at 4:04 PM, Shadow Mir said:

The problem, as I see it, is that with Maddening's experience cuts, I'd have to choose who to prioritize to succeed. Raphael in particular requires waaaaay too much work to become anything even remotely resembling decent - trying to make him good in Maddening is comparable to trying to raise Larvesta into Volcarona. Or Deino into Hydreigon.

I'd like to address this - Maddening's experience cuts really aren't super noticeable if we're being honest. Sure "half exp" sounds intimidating but nearly every jrpg hard mode does experience cuts and it never ends up being half exp = you're half the level you'd be on the other modes. Because your units are slightly lower level they are taking on comparatively stronger enemies and earning more exp even if it's halved. Additionally for some reason the exp from healing and dancing didn't seem to get the same level of cut, and so your healers and dancers might actually end up kinda overleveled. I know I benched Raph this run, but I've benched one unit each run so far and this run isn't super different exp wise than the others. As far as the pokemon analogy goes, I see where you're coming from but I really think you're off base here. Raph is a unit that's serviceable for most of the game and has his build essentially built around getting Quick Riposte, which is an mid/endgame skill. If you want to really unpack the pokemon analogy, then we should establish that in Black and White people are going to challenge the Elite Four ~level 50. With Larvesta evolving into Volcarona at 59 and Deino into Hydreigon at 64, that's not just too much investment, that's just completely unviable. But those pokemon are unviable because they get the evolution they need to get after the Elite Four. Raphael doesn't get Quick Riposte multiple chapters into some hypothetical postgame, he gets it with probably 3 or 4 maps left. And in the meantime it's not as if he's completely useless or anything. If you really want a pokemon analogy for him it's probably more in line with something like Flygon in Ruby and Sapphire - the trapinch/vibrava levels can be rough, but there's still a bit of time before the endgame when each of them hit their full potential, and the payoff is pretty decent, though not gamebreaking. It's not a perfect analogy, but nothing ever will be.

On 2/1/2020 at 4:57 PM, Crysta said:

I was wondering if we were really playing the same game after hearing some of what you’ve argued... and apparently we aren’t! Three Houses Maddening isn’t Poke’mon, and conventional wisdom that applies to older titles does not always apply. 

lol. I think you touch on something that I really enjoy about Fire Emblem - I really enjoy when I'm presented with a mode or a game that bucks the "conventional wisdom" that can apply to the rest of the series. I think that's a major reason why I'm so attached to Radiant Dawn - there are so many quirks in that game just below the surface that completely change how I approach that game vs other FE titles. A lot of things that are considered "pitfalls" for other FE games are completely valid for RD, especially since that game has such a crazy revolving door cast that you're always expected to switch things up and play with the pieces you have at any given time.

On 2/1/2020 at 11:19 PM, SnowFire said:

A) Ferdinand's passive is awesome (although for the topic at hand, Ferdie has annoying recruit requirements for the Deer, as discussed already).  What you describe about level-ups is a hilarious occasional bad beat, not an actual downside.  Do the math; he's gonna level up 35-38 times over the course of a game. How many of those level-ups were on enemy phase and thus uncontrollable, bearing in mind that enemies I don't want to kill will likely be at full health and kills provide all the XP?  And how many of those enemy-phase level-ups were followed by another combat?  And how many of those combats were so lethal that Ferdie got KO'd from nearly full health?  And when he did get KO'd due to additional combats after a level-up, how often was that due to the loss of the passive 15 evade, not vanilla bad luck?  It's merely a funny use for a Divine Pulse once every three playthroughs.

B) No, you don't need to focus XP on Maddening.  This isn't Awakening where low-manning solves everything.  Maddening is very player-phase centric, and your player phase gets better the more legitimate threats you can field, which means building the whole team.  The sole exception might be focusing XP on Byleth if you want to recruit the CoS faculty ASAP in the earlygame, but that's about it.

C) Raphael is not a particularly high tier unit on any mode, but "high investment" is weird?  Give him some gauntlets and punch some mages out, the end, that's what you do with him.  Doesn't require much training and stat boosters don't matter for him except maybe Strength since everything else is unsalvageable.  (Could be semantics, but I'm assuming a "high investment" unit is one that cares about all their stats, wants expensive weapons, and wants to go exotic build paths to unlock their best stuff.  By that standard, Raph is straightforward and cheap.)

Definitely agree with all of the points here - thanks for laying out that Ferdinand leveling HP thing - that was my first thought as well, that leveling HP and following that up with another round of combat is going to happen maybe once in the entire game if that. If you want to make an argument against Ferdie's personal skill the only thing I can think of would be that it has horrible synergy with Bernadetta's personal skill - i.e. if you fortify then you screw over Bernadetta to help Ferdie out. But that's also a pretty weak argument - there's a ton of ways to keep Ferdie's HP up. Plus that seems like more of a Bernadetta issue than a Ferdinand issue.

Agree with the no need for low manning. I'm still kinda miffed by that dude who said Maddening was baby mode and basically just had a super beefy Byleth killing everything on enemy phase. It'll probably get harder for him post timeskip... I hope. I saw omegaevolution did a legit Byleth solo on Maddening and he's actually really good at the game and even his streams weren't without their pain points. 

Okay questions as I begin to enter the second half of the game:

a) What are some of the better utility gambits? On hard mode I never really had to make use of anything outside of offensive gambits, stride, and the 4 person dance gambit? Most of my units are probably going to fall off soon when it comes to Charm, so it might be good to start transitioning some of them over to utility gambits. I know Blessing and Impreganable Wall have their uses... any specific battalions to target? Byleth, Claude, and Hilda are 100% keeping their offensive gambits... Marianne has high charm but she's also my dancer. Leonie and Petra both have pretty good charm, but I'm trying to judge whether I should try to keep them up to pace with some tea parties and stat boosters or if they aren't worth saving. Ignatz doesn't have great charm but the dude still has Hit+40 and A rank authority so he's really not struggling to use offensive gambits in the slightest. Everyone else is trash. I was maybe thinking about trying to put something like Impregnable Wall on Lorenz for Ch.13 just to give Lorenz and Ignatz a bit of extra survivability in their little corner. I'm going to try to get Reposition on Claude who would be able to yeet them over the wall and into the center, but I also predict that Claude's probably going to be very busy that chapter and might not have the turn to spare to do that

b) Who should get the boots (or whatever they are called)? Any other FE game and I feel like the answer is super obvious - give them to the Dancer. But Marianne already has the march ring and will get Mov+1 soon, so i'm not sure I really need a 9 movement Dancer when all my other units have 8 movement max (Leonie, Sylvain and Lorenz might eventually hit 9). I'm thinking maybe Felix? Getting him from 6 mov to 7 mov seems like it would have a much bigger impact than taking an 8 mov unit to 9 mov

c) What's up with gardening? I had very little issue getting stat boosters on my past two runs, and this time I'll plant nothing but purple flowers and never get the stat boosters. I've tried resetting like 5-10 times and it changes up which flowers I get but it never gives me a stat booster

d) How exactly do the experience+ statue bonuses work? If I have the 4 exp+5% statues is everyone getting 1.2x the experience or (1.05)^4? I would think the latter

e) Felix's Shield. I don't know what to do with it. I've never gotten it before. Does he even want it as a war master? The 6 weight seems pretty trash for a unit that is able to double a decent amount of enemies. 

e) Do Claude's supports just completely suck? I've been pretty disappointed tbh. Idk why he can be so flirty with... everyone... but so boring in his supports with Byleth. And I checked out his S support and goddamn that might be the worst S support in an FE game? I think I'm going to abandon him for my favorite boy, Felix, instead

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

I'm going to answer the questions you asked that I feel qualified to answer lol.

B) Felix is a good choice. So are any of your mages or archers who might feel like they're falling behind in movement. Honestly, anyone getting the boots is workable, but I'd avoid giving them to already high movement units or Mercedes because her physic range is so ridiculously high.

C) It might just be bad luck? I got plenty of them on my Maddening run and I wasn't even particularly trying for them. Or maybe I got lucky?

E) I kept Felix's shield on him in my BL Maddening run and he still doubled/quadded with it equipped, but if yours is lagging in strength or speed it might be worth it to give it to someone else. Preferably someone who doesn't care about doubling and could use the extra defense.

F) Haha, that's up to personal opinion, but yes his s support is the worst xD

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

a) What are some of the better utility gambits? On hard mode I never really had to make use of anything outside of offensive gambits, stride, and the 4 person dance gambit? Most of my units are probably going to fall off soon when it comes to Charm, so it might be good to start transitioning some of them over to utility gambits. I know Blessing and Impreganable Wall have their uses... any specific battalions to target? Byleth, Claude, and Hilda are 100% keeping their offensive gambits... Marianne has high charm but she's also my dancer. Leonie and Petra both have pretty good charm, but I'm trying to judge whether I should try to keep them up to pace with some tea parties and stat boosters or if they aren't worth saving. Ignatz doesn't have great charm but the dude still has Hit+40 and A rank authority so he's really not struggling to use offensive gambits in the slightest. Everyone else is trash. I was maybe thinking about trying to put something like Impregnable Wall on Lorenz for Ch.13 just to give Lorenz and Ignatz a bit of extra survivability in their little corner. I'm going to try to get Reposition on Claude who would be able to yeet them over the wall and into the center, but I also predict that Claude's probably going to be very busy that chapter and might not have the turn to spare to do that

Alliance Sages, Alliance Wyvern Co., Opera Co. Volunteers (that last one requires Dorothea). That's all that comes to me off the top of my head.

4 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

I saw omegaevolution did a legit Byleth solo on Maddening and he's actually really good at the game and even his streams weren't without their pain points. 

So did I.

4 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

I see that you seem to be unfamiliar with the actual toughest spirit battle:

Very very very fitting that the toughest challenge in the game would be F-Zero related. Need a new F-Zero game injected into my bloodstream ASAP

I actually am - I've tried that several times. To say it went badly would be an understatement. However, I'm not sure I'd consider it the de facto hardest spirit battle, considering the DLC spirits. The main one that comes to mind is Hero's Comrades, which pits you against seven(!) different characters, all of whom represent a Dragon Quest XI party member (if you're curious: Link = Erik, Zelda and Robin = Serena and Veronica, Sheik = Sylvando, Zero Suit Samus = Jade, King Dedede = Rab, Ike = Hendrik). That being said, Guile and Dark Emperor also suck; the former has you go up against Captain Falcon assisted by - you guessed it - Guile. While Guile CAN be KOed, it won't be easy, since he'll Flash Kick you away if you try to approach him. The latter has you go against a giant Ridley with super armor... enough said.

4 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

I'd like to address this - Maddening's experience cuts really aren't super noticeable if we're being honest. Sure "half exp" sounds intimidating but nearly every jrpg hard mode does experience cuts and it never ends up being half exp = you're half the level you'd be on the other modes. Because your units are slightly lower level they are taking on comparatively stronger enemies and earning more exp even if it's halved. Additionally for some reason the exp from healing and dancing didn't seem to get the same level of cut, and so your healers and dancers might actually end up kinda overleveled. I know I benched Raph this run, but I've benched one unit each run so far and this run isn't super different exp wise than the others. As far as the pokemon analogy goes, I see where you're coming from but I really think you're off base here. Raph is a unit that's serviceable for most of the game and has his build essentially built around getting Quick Riposte, which is an mid/endgame skill. If you want to really unpack the pokemon analogy, then we should establish that in Black and White people are going to challenge the Elite Four ~level 50. With Larvesta evolving into Volcarona at 59 and Deino into Hydreigon at 64, that's not just too much investment, that's just completely unviable. But those pokemon are unviable because they get the evolution they need to get after the Elite Four. Raphael doesn't get Quick Riposte multiple chapters into some hypothetical postgame, he gets it with probably 3 or 4 maps left. And in the meantime it's not as if he's completely useless or anything. If you really want a pokemon analogy for him it's probably more in line with something like Flygon in Ruby and Sapphire - the trapinch/vibrava levels can be rough, but there's still a bit of time before the endgame when each of them hit their full potential, and the payoff is pretty decent, though not gamebreaking. It's not a perfect analogy, but nothing ever will be.

Perhaps. The thing is, even if Raphael is good with Quick Riposte, that's still too much time to be dragging along someone who's about as bad as Little Mac's recovery in my book - I'm not okay with dragging along someone who is a scrub for nearly all the game owing to crippling overspecialization just because one ability makes them stop sucking when said ability is tied to mastering a Master tier class. Especially since my better units will start showing themselves as being good long before then.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Cysx]

3 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

d) How exactly do the experience+ statue bonuses work? If I have the 4 exp+5% statues is everyone getting 1.2x the experience or (1.05)^4? I would think the latter

It's the former. Afaik there are two individual experience multipliers in the game, one with all the strongest statues' bonuses added together(1.4x tops, and 1.2x in your case), and another comprised of the rest, also added together(exp gem, professor's guidance, etc).

[LoneRecon400]

7 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

a) What are some of the better utility gambits outside of offensive gambits, stride, and Dance of the Goddess? 

b) Who should get the boots?

c) What's up with gardening? 

d) How exactly do the experience+ statue bonuses work? Is it additive or multiplicative?

e) Felix's Shield. Does he even want it as a war master?

- Retribution would be a good Gambit to add on that list. It makes any unit to be able counter almost any enemy regardless of distance. So that Warmaster Felix of yours could punch out a enemy siege tome user from 10 tiles away. 

- I'd say give your boots to Leonie to better utilize Point Blank Volley as Bow Knight. Fliers are some of the most threating enemies on Maddening, so having a very mobile unit to take them out is pretty handy.

- Gardening for statboosters uses a ludicrously over complicated formula, but it pretty much goes like this. The results are also decided the moment right when they're planted, so resetting after that point won't do anything. 

- Statue EXP Bonuses are additive. So you can only get +40% exp in total from the statues as the 10% exp multipliers replace the 5% ones. 

- Felix's Shield can be quite useful on him if you're willing get him Weight -3. Combine with the low weight of Gauntlets and his high Strength, he'd will often not lose any Speed at all even white the shield equipped. 

But since you recurited your Felix very late and can't really afford to train Heavy Armor, I'd recommend just to give to someone who is always doubled but can still take a few hits like 

Edited February 5, 2020 by LoneRecon400

[SpiceMan]

5 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

e) Felix's Shield. I don't know what to do with it. I've never gotten it before. Does he even want it as a war master? The 6 weight seems pretty trash for a unit that is able to double a decent amount of enemies. 

I really like this Shield. I use on him no matter what class he is in. People seem to forget that if you're just short of doubling a group of enemies you can just unequip it and then your AS goes back to normal. Felix normally has enough strength and speed to double anyway and the Aegis and Pavise effect will often save your life, trust me.

Now since yours is a War master I would say absolutely for 2 reasons. 1) Gauntlets have at most 7 weight, and can go as low as 1. Felix will easily surpass the strength requirements for the lower weapons and so giving him the shield won't actually slow him down by 6 since he will have constitution to spare. And 2) Aegis and Pavise work very well with War Master's Quick riposte. QR will almost always be active on felix because if a hit would knock him under 50% there is always a chance that the hit will be halved in damage, keeping him above the hp requirement which can potentially save his life, or just let him kill faster. 

Additional note with QR his AS on enemy phase doesn't matter so the shield potentially slowing him down means nothing. Overall, keep it on him and unequip it if you ever need more speed.

[Shadow Mir]

34 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Retribution would be a good Gambit to add on that list. It makes any unit to be able counter almost any enemy regardless of distance. So that Warmaster Felix of yours could punch out a enemy siege tome user from 10 tiles away. 

 

I had forgotten about this one. Unfortunately, however, unless you're on the Blue Lions route, your only options for Retribution are A rank battalions, namely the Indech Sword Fighters, which is the only one available on all routes.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[hdawgsizzle]

19 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

Sylvain - Paladin

Oh boy... He's kind of a disaster to be honest. I just reclassed him into Paladin so maybe he'll be better with a -faire. He's also not too far away from getting swift strikes, so I guess it won't matter that his strength and speed are both garbage. I got Hit+20 for him too so that should help... But overall he's super underwhelming so far. He fell off a bit towards the end when I used him on hard mode, but this is way earlier than I was having issues with him last time. As for the Ferdinand vs. Sylvain debate people were having here earlier: Ferdinand. 100%. His personal skill is so much better and you can use a goddess ring/spear of assal to make sure he's always topped off on HP. 

Sylvain just got Swift Strikes and he went from pretty awful to the best unit in Fire Emblem in the history of Fire Emblem ever in all of Fire Emblem. 80+ damage with the horseslayer/blessed lance is incredible. An absolute delete button of a unit. Also he just got a bunch of lucky level ups in a row and went from 22 strength to 27 over the course of three maps. Only Felix has higher strength now.

Seth wants what Sylvain has

[SpiceMan]

9 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

Sylvain just got Swift Strikes and he went from pretty awful to the best unit in Fire Emblem in the history of Fire Emblem ever in all of Fire Emblem. 80+ damage with the horseslayer/blessed lance is incredible. An absolute delete button of a unit. Also he just got a bunch of lucky level ups in a row and went from 22 strength to 27 over the course of three maps. Only Felix has higher strength now.

Brave combat arts do things to people. Scary things.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

So, I was wondering how much the dancer’s position on chapter 13’s map would affect my decision to make a dancer. I was considering either Ignatz or Lorenz, since they are not the best GD units (although good in the right hands) and they are in the first wave of player reinforcements.

If not, I was thinking making Marianne would be good. Any chapter available is good with a dancer, but chapter 13 is where you need one very much.

[hdawgsizzle]

50 minutes ago, Azure loves his Half Elves said:

So, I was wondering how much the dancer’s position on chapter 13’s map would affect my decision to make a dancer. I was considering either Ignatz or Lorenz, since they are not the best GD units (although good in the right hands) and they are in the first wave of player reinforcements.

If not, I was thinking making Marianne would be good. Any chapter available is good with a dancer, but chapter 13 is where you need one very much.

I mad Marianne my Dancer and she's been by far and away the best dancer I've had so far (I've used Dorothea and Annette in the other houses). I would highly recommend against making Lorenz or Ignatz your dancer because I think it's a waste of their abilities. At that point in the game  they'll both be able to one shot most enemies (Lorenz with Frozen Lance, Ignatz with Hunter's Volley). They're incredibly valuable. If you haven't used them on Maddening I think they will really surprise you. I've used Marianne as a Bishop and a Dark Knight before and I don't feel like I'm wasting her talents by making her a dancer. Losing Ignatz or Lorenz as a combat unit would be much worse than losing Marianne as a combat unit. 

I really didn't find Ch. 13 to be that difficult nor the Dancer all that necessary. Ashes and Dust is so powerful that it will make the first few rounds of combat pretty safe. Also make sure Claude has Encloser by that point. For Ignatz and Lorenz, I gave Ignatz the impregnable wall gambit for that map (thankfully his authority boon means he shouldn't have a hard time reaching high authority ranks and can pretty much use whatever gambit you want with him). Use the gambit on Lorenz, put Lorenz in the way of a few enemies, and then Ignatz and Lorenz can clean them up the next turn. 

It's hard to get Ignatz and Lorenz over to where the others are safely, and so I don't think making either of them your dancer will really give you the utility you're looking for. The only upside I can think of to making Ignatz your dancer is that he gets Physic, though from my experience that's not necessary. Having more firepower on the left side of Ch. 13 is very welcome

There's a guy on this thread who was advocating for making Lorenz a dancer earlier though, so I'd seek out his post if you want a dissenting opinion

[Dark Holy Elf]

To be that dissenting opinion, I definitely recommend making Ignatz or Lorenz a dancer. Neither are great (usable, as noted, but not great) and both start on the west side. I felt dancer!Ignatz was a big help for Chapter 13, since it allowed me to transfer more turns to Claude and Byleth, who are better units. If for some reason you feel either Hilda or Leonie is a worse unit than those two, you could make one of them the dancer instead.

[Shadow Mir]

11 hours ago, hdawgsizzle said:

I would highly recommend against making Lorenz or Ignatz your dancer because I think it's a waste of their abilities.

I'd recommend against it because their charm is shit and they most likely ain't gonna win unless you either get extremely lucky or devote resources to them. To put things into perspective, Lorenz has 3 base (which ties for the lowest charm base) and 35% growth, which ain't enough to get him there, and Ignatz's 4 base and 25% growth ain't any better.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

Reminder that tea time and golden apples can bring resistance up. And the spending time with your dancer-to-be brings it up by 5.

You should be good.

[Crysta]

I did Dancer!Lorenz on my run and he's fine.

His lackluster base charm was patched up easily with a single tea party. From there, you don't need high charm... and his charm growth gets patched up with the dancer growths anyway (it was his highest stat on my playthrough lol). He dances, and doesn't die!

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Anybody seeing regular action gets 15-20 level ups by the dance competition. At 40% charm growth (unless you're having him spend time as a Dark Mage), that's enough chances to pick up 5 level ups in charm. But if the odds were not in your favor, a panic tea time can push him over.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Glennstavos

[Shadow Mir]

11 hours ago, Azure loves his Half Elves said:

Reminder that tea time and golden apples can bring resistance up. And the spending time with your dancer-to-be brings it up by 5.

You should be good.

I consider activity points resources. And it's not like tea parties are free. Except for birthdays, but the characters in question either have their birthday before the option to have tea parties opens up (Lorenz) or too late (Ignatz).

Edited February 12, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[hdawgsizzle]

4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I consider activity points resources. And it's not like tea parties are free. Except for birthdays, but the characters in question either have their birthday before the option to have tea parties opens up (Lorenz) or too late (Ignatz).

Oh my god I’m so sick of everyone saying “x unit needs resources” or “x unit needs to be fed kills” therefore they are bad. 

Reality check: every unit needs resources! Every unit needs kills! Some need a lot more than others, but the argument should be whether or not it’s worth it to invest in that unit not whether or not that unit needs resources at all. Lysithea needs investment, Hilda needs investment, Leonie needs investment, etc. They are all fantastic units still. 

You invest in the units you want to use and you give kills to the units that you want to make stronger. That’s what Fire Emblem is and always has been. Pretending like every single kill you give a unit or giving them a single tea party is going way out of your way to baby them is absolutely asinine. 

With 3 base and a 35% growth, factoring in that your unit should be ~level 20 by the time of the dance competition, Lorenz would have 15 Charm. Plus you have the option to have a tea party if things get wonky and his charm doesn’t work out. That’s hardly some major investment you make it out to be. It actually seems like a pretty surefire win. 
With 5 base and 25% growth Ignatz would also have 15 Charm at the point of the dance competition (this counts the 5 charm from dance practice). 

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, hdawgsizzle said:

Oh my god I’m so sick of everyone saying “x unit needs resources” or “x unit needs to be fed kills” therefore they are bad. 

Reality check: every unit needs resources! Every unit needs kills! Some need a lot more than others, but the argument should be whether or not it’s worth it to invest in that unit not whether or not that unit needs resources at all. Lysithea needs investment, Hilda needs investment, Leonie needs investment, etc. They are all fantastic units still. 

You invest in the units you want to use and you give kills to the units that you want to make stronger. That’s what Fire Emblem is and always has been. Pretending like every single kill you give a unit or giving them a single tea party is going way out of your way to baby them is absolutely asinine. 

With 3 base and a 35% growth, factoring in that your unit should be ~level 20 by the time of the dance competition, Lorenz would have 15 Charm. Plus you have the option to have a tea party if things get wonky and his charm doesn’t work out. That’s hardly some major investment you make it out to be. It actually seems like a pretty surefire win. 
With 5 base and 25% growth Ignatz would also have 15 Charm at the point of the dance competition (this counts the 5 charm from dance practice). 

Personally, I'd like my dancer to be able to get the needed charm through level ups and the dance lesson alone (and to be female, because I don't give a whit about pretty much all the males in this game). The tea parties the likes of Lorenz, Ignatz, or (insert low charm unit here) would need are more resources than I care to dole out to that end.

[hdawgsizzle]

Just now, Shadow Mir said:

Personally, I'd like my dancer to be able to get the needed charm through level ups and the dance lesson alone (and to be female, because I don't give a whit about pretty much all the males in this game). The tea parties the likes of Lorenz, Ignatz, or (insert low charm unit here) would need are more resources than I care to dole out to that end.

Did you not pay attention??

Ignatz and Lorenz would both end up with 15 charm through level ups at the time of the dance competition. They don’t NEED the tea parties at all. The tea parties are just a failsafe (as they are with EVERY unit that you want to make a dancer). 

Plus even if they get charm screwed AND you can’t spare one measly activity point, you can also plant white flowers, which I know you’ll say is “using up a week of gardening” or whatever but you need the flowers anyways and white is good on GD because they give Anemones which Hilda likes. But the point stands: you have a LOT of options for IF Lorenz or Ignatz gets charm screwed which is already unlikely in the first place!

It honestly just seems like you’re very unfamiliar with the game and the resources that are available. Earlier you were saying that it’s impossible to reach S+ weapon ranks with units and I’m about to take on Ch. 16 and Ignatz is already there with very little investment. Lysithea is almost there as well

[Burklight]

1 minute ago, hdawgsizzle said:

Did you not pay attention??

Ignatz and Lorenz would both end up with 15 charm through level ups at the time of the dance competition. They don’t NEED the tea parties at all. The tea parties are just a failsafe (as they are with EVERY unit that you want to make a dancer). 

Plus even if they get charm screwed AND you can’t spare one measly activity point, you can also plant white flowers, which I know you’ll say is “using up a week of gardening” or whatever but you need the flowers anyways and white is good on GD because they give Anemones which Hilda likes. But the point stands: you have a LOT of options for IF Lorenz or Ignatz gets charm screwed which is already unlikely in the first place!

It honestly just seems like you’re very unfamiliar with the game and the resources that are available. Earlier you were saying that it’s impossible to reach S+ weapon ranks with units and I’m about to take on Ch. 16 and Ignatz is already there with very little investment. Lysithea is almost there as well

Seriously, just ignore him. I'm not entirely sure he can read. He also hasn't beat the game yet, or played maddening. 

The flaw from my experience against using someone like Ignatz is that your plan requires getting Ignatz to level 20ish, which in my run was a serious struggle. Either he gets str screwed and you cant make him a passable combat unit, in which case he may not get enough levels for the charm, or he does end up getting enough str to be helpful, in which case he's better as a sniper. Also he has strength in authority, which makes him one of the better candidates in golden deer to try and rush A rank for retribution (Indech Sword Fighters iirc). I think Lorenz makes a lot more sense, as he's less likely to get totally screwed on the leveling aspect, as well as a strength in riding for an easier +1 move.