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Sitfull

Critique my Maddening Plan

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Here is my planned final team for a Blue Lions maddening NG+ playthrough. Everyone will be given a iron weapon of their major type, and specialty refers to another, specialized or fun weapon I hope to give them. I am open to any critique, discussion, or questions!

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One, I would just have Mercedes go for Gremory instead of Holy Knight - Holy Knight doesn't offer anything that makes it worth going for. Two, I wouldn't bother with the Bolt Axe if you're making Annette a Gremory - it's too heavy and too inaccurate. Third, Flayn needs Reason for Gremory, so I'd just go for that instead, as she's not going to be doing much with a Crescent Sickle. Also, War Master is male only, so Catherine can't be one. What's more, Dimitri is weak in axes, so you might want to change that.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Enlightened one is fine on Byleth. Dimitri is weak in axes and his canon class is pretty good so I'd keep him with lances as the main and swords or bows as the backup. Annette looks good though don't forget she also gets a relic. Mercedes usually wants to stick to bishop or gremory and she has a fairly decent reason list with good damage output so I don't personally feel that Holy Knight is the best option for her. Felix is wonderful as a War Master. While Ingrid can work great in Falcon bear in mind that her strength can be middling, so it might be worth it to take her wyvern to help patch that if you see her falling off. Dorothea learns physic so I'd at least take her down Faith enough to get that, but she's a wonderful dancer so that looks good. Flayn needs reason so focusing on that would probably be a good idea. As Mir mentioned, Catherine cannot be a War Master as it's gender locked - she works great as a swordmaster or a falcon knight if you feel like investing in her that heavily. Ashe looks good, just remember that Bow Knights require lance ranks. Everyone else looks good. It is, imo, worth remembering that your native class units will be the only options you have for chapter 13 so it's very important to keep Sylvain up and he learns Swift Strikes so his lances are probably what you want to focus on more than anything else if you end up using him (say if someone else falls off). Also forged silver weapons are great as you get later into the game! Don't discount their use 🙂

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Bow Knights are kinda icky on Maddening. Your hit rate drops by 30 each added space you're trying to shoot. Unless your bow or combat art covers that amount of range in its description. So the Bow knight's extra space over the Sniper's range can feel like barely an advantage if you're not doing everything to keep that accuracy high. Canto is nice, but the Sniper's Hunter's Volley is nicer. You will only need to worry about a sniper's strength stat and they will pull their weight until the end of the game. The only units I tend to consider for Bow Knight are Cyril and Leonie, due to having Point Blank Volley, a 1 range locked version of Hunter's Volley, but those characters could also fire that combat art as a Wyvern and maintain high class growths.

I might also recommend Dark Knight for a magic focused Annette. Gremory provides only extra spell uses, and I can't imagine her running out of any of her spells. If she were a physic user, then gremory or bishop would be fine, but she's not. Speaking of, Mercedes probably ought to be a bishop. More spell charges and better healing. With Physic she doesn't need to keep up with your frontliners.

Edited by Glennstavos

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Catherine can't be a War Master, it's gender locked. Holy Knight seems like overkill on Mercedes. x2 uses is better than movement on someone who's only job is using Physic, Restore, and Fortify. She'll always be in range for those things even while footlocked. Not sure if you're using male or female Byleth, but EO kinda blows. I'd use female and go peg knight. If you really want to use male, War Master is probably best because QR is nuts.

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18 minutes ago, Burklight said:

EO kinda blows

I beg to differ, given that I don't have to bust my ass to get it like I have to do with, say, Wyvern Lord.

52 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Annette looks good though don't forget she also gets a terrible relic that shouldn't be used.

Fixed for accuracy.

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3 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Fixed for accuracy.

Will you give it a rest already?

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7 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I beg to differ, given that I don't have to bust my ass to get it like I have to do with, say, Wyvern Lord.

 

Even Swordmaster is better than Enlightened One. Enlightened One is just awful. However, the TC said this is a NG+. On NG+ it shouldn't matter how hard things are to get because everything is free.

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Anyway, other stuff that came to mind:

-Getting Byleth to A swords might be in your best interest, as it gets them Windsweep, which doesn't allow counters.

-I'd recruit Petra and Bernadetta - the former is a ginormous pain in the ass to fight, and the latter is the only unit with Encloser.

42 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Bow Knights are kinda icky on Maddening. Your hit rate drops by 30 each added space you're trying to shoot. Unless your bow or combat art covers that amount of range in its description. So the Bow knight's extra space over the Sniper's range can feel like barely an advantage if you're not doing everything to keep that accuracy high.

Actually, the accuracy drop is only 20 per extra space. 

@ TC, why Great Knights for adjutants, and what are your ability plans?

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2 minutes ago, Burklight said:

 

Even Swordmaster is better than Enlightened One. Enlightened One is just awful. However, the TC said this is a NG+. On NG+ it shouldn't matter how hard things are to get because everything is free.

If you have an issue with EO, now's your time to explain said issue.  "It's trash" doesn't say why anyone should listen to you.

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4 minutes ago, Burklight said:

 

Even Swordmaster is better than Enlightened One. Enlightened One is just awful. However, the TC said this is a NG+. On NG+ it shouldn't matter how hard things are to get because everything is free.

You're going to have to do better than just saying EO is awful if you want any chance of being listened to. Also, you're literally the only person who I've seen insist that Swordmaster is better than it.

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9 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

You're going to have to do better than just saying EO is awful if you want any chance of being listened to. Also, you're literally the only person who I've seen insist that Swordmaster is better than it.

Well, considering the criteria you used to say EO was better than a class I didn't mention was because the class I didn't mention (WL) takes too much effort in a NG+. So I assumed you were trolling and dismissed it. Are you suggesting you aren't trolling, and instead don't read?

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I totally forgot that War Master was genderlocked lol, so I'll switch her up after I take a look at my options. Perhaps Wyvern Lord, but I want to be able to keep my gauntlets. I want Ashe and Annette to have axes because I don't have a lot of Axe in my team, so I want at least some coverage on that front. I'm hoping Ashe's high hit will mitigate the low hit axes he wields. Ideally I'll give him a hammer. I'll give Annette crusher; I didn't realize she gets a relic.

I like the idea of Canto and the increased mobility for my healers and archers, but I might play around with keeping them as snipers and bishops if it needs to be done. 

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

@ TC, why Great Knights for adjutants, and what are your ability plans?

 

I want my adjutants to be Great Knights because I want them to be able to defend my units; I have found that to be the most useful of the three adjutant uses. 

Edited by Sitfull

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6 minutes ago, Sitfull said:

I totally forgot that War Master was genderlocked lol, so I'll switch her up after I take a look at my options. Perhaps Wyvern Lord, but I want to be able to keep my gauntlets. I want Ashe and Annette to have axes because I don't have a lot of Axe in my team, so I want at least some coverage on that front. I'm hoping Ashe's high hit will mitigate the low hit axes he wields. Ideally I'll give him a hammer. I'll give Annette crusher; I didn't realize she gets a relic.

 

I want my adjutants to be Great Knights because I want them to be able to defend my units; I have found that to be the most useful of the three adjutant uses. 

I'm not sure it'd be worth it, considering the Crusher is rather heavy and inaccurate, to say nothing of needing to get up close to whatever you're attacking, which is pretty much guaranteed to end poorly for Annette should she whiff. Not to mention the fact that, as a magic weapon, it loses durability even if you miss.

Good point, but Armored Knight and Fortress Knight are also guard adjutant classes, and don't require investing in two non-weapon proficiencies to class into. And I ask again, what are your plans for ability setups?

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Two missing columns I would add: Equippables (who gets Thyrsus?), and Battalions (who gets King of Lions Corp?). Equippables matter especially for your mages, who don't really care about weapons. While I disagree with @Shadow Mir about the general utility of the Bolt Axe, I do believe they are right in this case: there is basically no reason for a unit with magic access and without Axefaire, or Axe prowess, to be wielding the Bolt Axe. Even the 3-range version isn't worth it, Caduceus offers the same thing.

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Good point, but Armored Knight and Fortress Knight are also guard adjutant classes, and don't require investing in two non-weapon proficiencies to class into. And I ask again, what are your plans for ability setups?

Seconded. Unless I misunderstand Adjutants, having a Great Knight as one does you no more favors than having an Armor Knight or Brawler as one. Personally I like to have a heal adjutant or two, but it's up to you what you prefer.

Mercedes would probably prefer Dark Knight to Holy Knight, since Black Tomefaire gives her so much more than White Tomefaire. Then again, if you'd rather not raise her Reason up, she'll be fine just staying a Bishop. That gives her the most healing potential.

I would strongly suggest making another flier - Wyvern Lord Ashe springs to mind, given his strength in Axes. He can keep using bows as a backup, since C Lances is trivial to reach. Or you could take Sylvain or Hilda, with strengths in lances and axes, down that road.

With Felix, I've found his shield a mixed bag. 6 weight is no small penalty - carrying it might mean he misses out on doubles, or even gets doubled by certain enemies. Not saying don't use it, but be prepared to un/equip it strategically. Or you could give it to a more defensive unit, who always gets doubled anyway (Gilbert).

Good luck!

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6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Good point, but Armored Knight and Fortress Knight are also guard adjutant classes, and don't require investing in two non-weapon proficiencies to class into. And I ask again, what are your plans for ability setups?

I haven't put a lot of thought into abilities besides general prowess and faire abilities where they fit.  Annette is also gonna be filled with rallies, of course. I do know I want felix, Byleth, and as many others as possible to have Vantage. I also intend to give Shamir lethality; is that worth going for? Are there any other abiltiies worth going out of my way for for certain characters. Also, are the breaker skills worth equipping generally?

28 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Two missing columns I would add: Equippables (who gets Thyrsus?), and Battalions (who gets King of Lions Corp?). Equippables matter especially for your mages, who don't really care about weapons. While I disagree with @Shadow Mir about the general utility of the Bolt Axe, I do believe they are right in this case: there is basically no reason for a unit with magic access and without Axefaire, or Axe prowess, to be wielding the Bolt Axe. Even the 3-range version isn't worth it, Caduceus offers the same thing.

...

I would strongly suggest making another flier - Wyvern Lord Ashe springs to mind, given his strength in Axes. He can keep using bows as a backup, since C Lances is trivial to reach. Or you could take Sylvain or Hilda, with strengths in lances and axes, down that road.

With Felix, I've found his shield a mixed bag. 6 weight is no small penalty - carrying it might mean he misses out on doubles, or even gets doubled by certain enemies. Not saying don't use it, but be prepared to un/equip it strategically. Or you could give it to a more defensive unit, who always gets doubled anyway (Gilbert).

Good luck!

I like the idea of adding equipables as a column. Annette is gonna have Thyrsus, btw. I haven't thought much about Battalions, but right now I have Ashes and Dust on Byleth and Gautier Pegasus Knights on Ingrid. Who in general (even if not in this run) would be a good fit for bolt axe, if not Annette?

I also like the idea of making Ashe a Wyvern Lord, I didn't think of that. I'll probably switch things up and move him in that direction because it'll help his strength and give him the mobility I want. Felix having the shield wasn't something I really put a lot of thought into I just thought it might help his livability, but Gilbert would probably benefit from it more.

Thanks for all the discussion guys lol this is fun

 

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9 hours ago, Sitfull said:

I like the idea of adding equipables as a column. Annette is gonna have Thyrsus, btw. I haven't thought much about Battalions, but right now I have Ashes and Dust on Byleth and Gautier Pegasus Knights on Ingrid. Who in general (even if not in this run) would be a good fit for bolt axe, if not Annette?

You could give the Bolt Axe to someone with Axefaire and Axe Prowess, like Felix or Gilbert. Their magic offense might be low, though, unless you give them a hybrid battalion (like Gloucester Knights). It may be weaker than a Tomahawk, but sometimes getting the magical hit rate (ignoring terrain) is to your advantage. Also, it might be the case that no one really wants it, and that's fine.

I like the Battalion sound. For my own part, I gave Immortal Corps to Ingrid, as she was one of my fliers. I like to give offensive gambits to high-charm units (like Ingrid, Byleth, Dimitri), and support gambits to ones with lower charm (Felix, Ashe, Mercedes). But it's up to you.

9 hours ago, Sitfull said:

I also like the idea of making Ashe a Wyvern Lord, I didn't think of that. I'll probably switch things up and move him in that direction because it'll help his strength and give him the mobility I want. Felix having the shield wasn't something I really put a lot of thought into I just thought it might help his livability, but Gilbert would probably benefit from it more.

Yeah I was really satisfied when I built him that way; althoigh, most units with the right proficiencies do their best on a Wyvern. Would note, if you give the Aegis Shield to someone without a crest, I think they will also need a crest stone to avoid taking damage. Ideally the Fraldarius one, to get the Aegis/Pavise effects.

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10 hours ago, Femboy Advance SP said:

I don't know about you but for me having a dedicated tank on maddening is essential.

A war master Dedue can carry you through the endgame, I wouldn't overlook him.

War Master Dedue is good, sure, but let's not forget that he's missing at one of the points where it matters most - Chapter 13. Plus a couple after.

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