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About Randolph in Azure Moon

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Good speeches don't amount to much if you're willing to go along the bad idea anyway, but he does get points for effort, I guess.

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1 minute ago, Crysta said:

Good speeches don't amount to much if you're willing to go along the bad idea anyway, but he does get points for effort, I guess.

This is a common criticism of Azure Moon. Both Rodrigue and Gilbert were there, and they both let Dimitri lead in his nutso feral state, and never once did anyone suggest "Hey, maybe we have the wrong person leading this army". Not even Felix. It would be smarter to use Dimitri as a figurehead leader until he saw the light or if he ever did.

But real world historical figures have done stupid war decisions, look at both times Russia was invaded in the winter for an example. And Faerghus is big on knights following kings, which isn't always the smartest plan, but it's their culture and it's not always easy to go against what your culture has told you your whole life.

Characters making stupid decisions actually makes things more realistic. Yet if anyone should have suggested "let me lead, he needs mental help", it'd be Byleth and he/she doesn't either.

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Yeah I can see why "history is full of stupid war leaders" and "Faerghus adheres to the strict hierarchy that comes with a monarchy thus compels vassals to follow these stupid leaders" may not be compelling reasons to overlook AM's faults, particularly in a game that seems rife with political upheaval and features two other lords keen on correcting obviously flawed and unhealthy society systems.

But I also was just chortling about Rodrigue's general ineffectual-ness. It's not like he's unaware of it, either.

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1 minute ago, Crysta said:

But I also was just chortling about Rodrigue's general ineffectual-ness. It's not like he's unaware of it, either.

Ol Rod misses the days when the only thing he had to worry about was getting caught playing hooky with Lambo. God I love that little detail.

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2 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

Oh yeah, sparing Dedue really helps this narrative. It was an immediate "BROOOOOOOOO! OMG I MISSED YOU I THOUGHT YOU DIED OMG", basically.

Rodrigue was a good guy. I felt bad for him just trying to be Dad and Felix being a little shit. One sided old bull/young bull. I mean Felix is great too, but I just felt the oof size large at a lot of those interactions. I was like what kind of dysfunctional family drama did I just walk into.

Guy was so much of a knight he forgot to be a father to his own kids. 

He oughta have learned from Frederick, who not only goes above an beyond with being a knight, but actually knows how to separate being a knight from being a father.

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4 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Is it ever said what Rodrigue said to Felix to make him so jaded towards his father? I was thinking something along the lines of "you will never match up to Glen".

It’s the “he died a true knight” thing, but I always thought it was weird for Rodrigue to consider saying that horrible. Felix doesn’t angst about anything else, though.

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13 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Mercy kill or not, Randolph's death is because of Dimitri. So Fleche's target of revenge isn't misguided. 

I did not see Dedue anywhere near there. So not sure what you mean by that. And she killed Rodrigue and nearly killed Dimitri in the end. 

Plus, I doubt Fleche cared about her own life there. She wanted revenge and would die for it. Just as Dimitri did in VW/SS.

I'm more baffled by Byleth's plot-induced stupidity of not being able to Divine Pulse that.

Sothis herself expalined, that Divne pulse cna't undo pre-destined things, such as Rodrigue's and Jeralt's deaths

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Just now, darkblade2814 said:

Sothis herself expalined, that Divne pulse cna't undo pre-destined things, such as Rodrigue's and Jeralt's deaths

Yeah, Jeralt's case was that regardless of what Byleth did, as even when reversing time and trying to stop Kronya, he still failed, because Thales was there.

No such case was indicated with Fleche. So unless you can explain why Byleth didn't reverse time and try to stop Fleche when he was there, it's just bad writing. 

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28 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Is it ever said what Rodrigue said to Felix to make him so jaded towards his father? I was thinking something along the lines of "you will never match up to Glen".

 

21 minutes ago, Crysta said:

It’s the “he died a true knight” thing, but I always thought it was weird for Rodrigue to consider saying that horrible. Felix doesn’t angst about anything else, though.

Yeah, this. I guess Rodrigue didn't outwardly mourn Glenn, so Felix thought he didn't care. Apple don't fall far from the tree though, because Felix isn't visibly mourning despite all this. Anyone who loses a parent who raised them, even if there was some rocky relations, should mourn. I bet he sulks in his room.

 

33 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Guy was so much of a knight he forgot to be a father to his own kids. 

He oughta have learned from Frederick, who not only goes above an beyond with being a knight, but actually knows how to separate being a knight from being a father.

Possibly. It may be a cultural thing too, like women can choose one of three things: be a docile wife and mother, be a warrior, or balance it/have a few kids then return to the barracks. Example of the first would be Dimitri's mom, the second would be Catherine, the third would be Ingrid if she's paired. Men are pretty much raised to pick up a weapon, father a few kids, but the knight path is important.

Faerghus is kinda wack. When you give toddlers training weapons before they can read...you get attack goblins, basically.

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1 minute ago, Dragoncat said:

Possibly. It may be a cultural thing too, like women can choose one of three things: be a docile wife and mother, be a warrior, or balance it/have a few kids then return to the barracks. Example of the first would be Dimitri's mom, the second would be Catherine, the third would be Ingrid if she's paired. Men are pretty much raised to pick up a weapon, father a few kids, but the knight path is important.

Faerghus is kinda wack. When you give toddlers training weapons before they can read...you get attack goblins, basically.

Faerghus has the worst and most toxic culture of the three nations, but in regards to Patricia, keep in mind that she was a walking scandal, so she was a unique case. 

But this is why I dislike Rodrigue. Him being a parent to Dimitri more than his own actual son, and then parading Glenn's death as a noble thing so much, it just make me annoyed. So I got what Felix was going on about. Being a knight shouldn't mean forgetting how to be a dad. 

I also always despised how Rodrigue's death, proving Felix's words true, made Felix just accept Dimitri. 

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40 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

He oughta have learned from Frederick, who not only goes above an beyond with being a knight, but actually knows how to separate being a knight from being a father.

Just one of many reasons I love Frederick so much. He's just one of the most wonderful men ever. 🥰

But any knight could learn from Frederick imo, not just Rodrigue. XD One of Frederick's purposes in life is to teach other knights, after all.

Still, Rodrigue's death definitely could've been better executed, but I still like him as a character.

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Faerghus has the worst and most toxic culture of the three nations,

It kinda does. Adrestia has dark mages torturing kids right under everyone's noses though, and the emperor does shit about it because he's got dementia and he probably pisses in the hallway because he forgets where the bathroom is, and he thinks the lizard people talk to him, when it's the slither people talking to his most recent trophy wife instead. So they're not much better off. Headcanons aside, Ionius just looks so DONE with everything and he's clearly seen better days.

Leicester has chest pounding nobles having dick swinging contests but that's about it. So it's probably the most stable and fair culture.

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Just now, Dragoncat said:

It kinda does. Adrestia has dark mages torturing kids right under everyone's noses though, and the emperor does shit about it because he's got dementia and he probably pisses in the hallway because he forgets where the bathroom is, and he thinks the lizard people talk to him, when it's the slither people talking to his most recent trophy wife instead. So they're not much better off. Headcanons aside, Ionius just looks so DONE with everything and he's clearly seen better days.

Leicester has chest pounding nobles having dick swinging contests but that's about it. So it's probably the most stable and fair culture.

Um... dude. Insurrection of the Seven? The Emperor became politically impotent? He didn't let them endure the horrific experiments as you described it. He has no power. No one would be able to help him, as the military, servants, etc. all are under the corrupt nobles' control. Obviously him being on his deathbed makes sense, given that he had to bear the torment of being powerless to save his own children from being literally tortured to death. 

Leicester was unstable from the getgo with there being the internal power struggle constantly. 

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Um... dude. Insurrection of the Seven? The Emperor became politically impotent? He didn't let them endure the horrific experiments as you described it. He has no power. No one would be able to help him, as the military, servants, etc. all are under the corrupt nobles' control. Obviously him being on his deathbed makes sense, given that he had to bear the torment of being powerless to save his own children from being literally tortured to death. 

Leicester was unstable from the getgo with there being the internal power struggle constantly. 

That's what I get for trying to say stuff without playing Crimson Flower. I heard of the Insurrection of the Seven now that I think, but I didn't know what it was about.

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Honestly I don't really think Rodrigue is a particularly bad father, miles and leaps ahead of most others in the game(not that that's much of an accomplishment though.) He said something insensitive when he was likely grieving his own son's death himself and from what we see in the game, any time he even tries to talk to Felix, he snipes back pretty harshly. Hell, he spends years trying to investigate what actually happened that day BECAUSE of said dead son. Not to say he did nothing wrong but parents aren't perfect, they make mistakes too.

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There are definitely worse fathers in the game (Count Varley, Gilbert, Margrave Edmund, Margrave Gautier), considering Rodrigue seems like he made some what of an effort to raise Felix (I mean he didn't have financial troubles from the looks of it, went to school, still tries to interact with him, etc.) they just have a clash in ideologies. Obviously Rodrigue isn't perfect with how he handles knighthood and Glenn's death which made an impact on Felix. Rodrigue also makes some sort of effort to reconcile with Felix at least (as opposed to like Gilbert running around and hiding from Annette until she forces him to talk), even if his methods aren't the best.

He's insensitive, but far from like the worst father in the series.

Anyways RE:Randolph, it's interesting how he gets portrayed quite differently in AM (as opposed to CF) as a coward more or less (even bringing up the "I have a family" excuse when Dimitri was talking about torturing him, ignoring the soldier casualties on the opposing side that have families that he may or may not have slain).

Edited by Lunarly

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14 minutes ago, Axel987 said:

Honestly I don't really think Rodrigue is a particularly bad father, miles and leaps ahead of most others in the game(not that that's much of an accomplishment though.) He said something insensitive when he was likely grieving his own son's death himself and from what we see in the game, any time he even tries to talk to Felix, he snipes back pretty harshly. Hell, he spends years trying to investigate what actually happened that day BECAUSE of said dead son. Not to say he did nothing wrong but parents aren't perfect, they make mistakes too.

Jeralt was a good dad himself. Even Gilbert came around eventually. I think Jeralt was the dad who made the least mistakes actually, unless you count not knowing what he was getting himself into with that pretty nun. I mean yeah he raised Byleth in isolation but still.

Basically what I said up there. What Rod said wasn't terrible, maybe a bit insensitive, but not horrible awful, and it was also a cultural influence.

Edited by Dragoncat

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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, Jeralt's case was that regardless of what Byleth did, as even when reversing time and trying to stop Kronya, he still failed, because Thales was there.

No such case was indicated with Fleche. So unless you can explain why Byleth didn't reverse time and try to stop Fleche when he was there, it's just bad writing. 

Honestly the ability to Divine Pulse is inherently incompatible with such a thing as "fate" or "pre-destination". Jeralt doesn't die due to "fate", he dies because Thales intervenes. Awakening didn't have Pulse or Turnwheel, and it handled this stuff better.

Also the big brain take - Byleth did reverse time to stop Fleche, but as a result, Dimitri stayed in Boarmode and made a terrible King. So Byleth reverses time again, in order to undo their first reversal, and lets Fleche kill Rodrigue because they have no better ideas on how to fix him. We don't see the first one because it took too long and leads to nothing good.

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Just now, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Honestly the ability to Divine Pulse is inherently incompatible with such a thing as "fate" or "pre-destination". Jeralt doesn't die due to "fate", he dies because Thales intervenes. Awakening didn't have Pulse or Turnwheel, and it handled this stuff better.

Also the big brain take - Byleth did reverse time to stop Fleche, but as a result, Dimitri stayed in Boarmode and made a terrible King. So Byleth reverses time again, in order to undo their first reversal, and lets Fleche kill Rodrigue because they have no better ideas on how to fix him. We don't see the first one because it took too long and leads to nothing good.

It just means that there's no alternatives for Jeralt. He cannot avoid Jeralt's death no matter how many times he reverses time.

Now the flaw in that logic is that it's shown and stated that Sothis cannot reverse time far, and is shown to only reverse time for a few seconds. Meaning that for what you said to be a case for Byleth to know, he'd have to have had hours or a lot of minutes, which isn't possible to reverse in regards to Divine Pulse.

Please keep the gameplay function of the Divine Pulse off, cause gameplay-story segregation is a thing. I've had someone try to insist on that logic before. It was silly. 

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31 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Please keep the gameplay function of the Divine Pulse off, cause gameplay-story segregation is a thing. I've had someone try to insist on that logic before. It was silly. 

The irony of this is that Divine Pulse only exists as a story element because they wanted a gameplay mechanic where you could undo decisions. It doesn't serve the plot at all. As far as the story goes, Divine Pulse has near zero impact and only really serves as a nusance that the writers have to write around. Well, until they decided "fuck it, doesn't matter" and ignored it in AM.

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1 minute ago, Robertos said:

The irony of this is that Divine Pulse only exists as a story element because they wanted a gameplay mechanic where you could undo decisions. It doesn't serve the plot at all. As far as the story goes, Divine Pulse has near zero impact and only really serves as a nusance that the writers have to write around. Well, until they decided "fuck it, doesn't matter" and ignored it in AM.

I liked that they at least attempted it with Jeralt. 

Frankly, I preferred Mila's Turnwheel better, which lorewise is to see the future and acts on its own. 

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4 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

That's what I get for trying to say stuff without playing Crimson Flower. I heard of the Insurrection of the Seven now that I think, but I didn't know what it was about.

To explain that one, Thales (having replaced Arundel already) convinced some of the other heads of Imperial noble houses to stage a coup, stripping power away from the emperor to take for themselves. Afterwards, Thales had Slither agents abduct Ionius' children to perform the experiments on them. The emperor KNEW the horrible things being done to Edelgard and the others, but no longer had the power to do anything to save them. If you've at least seen the coronation scene, you see just how horrible he feels for what happened to his children; that's why he so willingly gives Edelgard the crown. And I know you were kidding about the senility thing, but he really is in terrible health. His voice is low and sounds like he's gasping for breath all the time, and he does the "Chronic Cough of Imminent Death" (TM) is half his lines. He probably had months or even weeks left to live anyway.

Edited by Sid Starkiller

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28 minutes ago, Sid Starkiller said:

To explain that one, Thales (having replaced Arundel already) convinced some of the other heads of Imperial noble houses to stage a coup, stripping power away from the emperor to take for themselves. Afterwards, Thales had Slither agents abduct Ionius' children to perform the experiments on them. The emperor KNEW the horrible things being done to Edelgard and the others, but no longer had the power to do anything to save them. If you've at least seen the coronation scene, you see just how horrible he feels for what happened to his children; that's why he so willingly gives Edelgard the crown. And I know you were kidding about the senility thing, but he really is in terrible health. His voice is low and sounds like he's gasping for breath all the time, and he does the "Chronic Cough of Imminent Death" (TM) is half his lines. He probably had months or even weeks left to live anyway.

I heard the thing about Arundel being replaced quite recently. But I see. Poor old dude. Did the slithers make him that sick? I'm thinking Ionius would have been maybe 40s and Patricia in late 20s when they conceived Edelgard. It'd be technically possible no matter how old he was, but it does get difficult with age and declining health. So that would put him in his 50s, which is up there, but not too far up there where he should be that way naturally. The slithers were poisoning him weren't they?

You're lucky I don't mind spoilers, btw.

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