About Randolph in Azure Moon

[Sid Starkiller]

1 hour ago, Dragoncat said:

I heard the thing about Arundel being replaced quite recently. But I see. Poor old dude. Did the slithers make him that sick? I'm thinking Ionius would have been maybe 40s and Patricia in late 20s when they conceived Edelgard. It'd be technically possible no matter how old he was, but it does get difficult with age and declining health. So that would put him in his 50s, which is up there, but not too far up there where he should be that way naturally. The slithers were poisoning him weren't they?

You're lucky I don't mind spoilers, btw.

That wasn't stated, but don't underestimate the effects of living a rough life. I used to work with a woman who you would swear was in her late 50s/early 60s, but she was only 41.

[Axel987]

Ionius would have to be pretty old for it to make any sense, there's a line early into the game that states no member of House von Hresvelg has attended the Officer's Academy in several generations before Edelgard did, yet Edelgard states that her father attended the academy, and met her mother a couple years after he graduated?

[Dragoncat]

1 hour ago, Axel987 said:

Ionius would have to be pretty old for it to make any sense, there's a line early into the game that states no member of House von Hresvelg has attended the Officer's Academy in several generations before Edelgard did, yet Edelgard states that her father attended the academy, and met her mother a couple years after he graduated?

Maybe that line meant no Hresvelg has led the Black Eagles? But if he was 50 some years old when Edelgard was conceived then that old boy had more spunk in him than I thought. Especially in a medieval setting, I don't think people were still having kids at that age, especially not ones that survive easily. I remember learning in school that the bigger the age gap between parents, the more likely the kid will be frail. Any indication how old Patricia was compared to Ionius? She can't be too old because menopause.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Dragoncat

[Lightchao42]

Edelgard being the first Hresvelg to attend the academy since Ionius might be notable because she had eight older siblings who never attended. Maybe 30 years or so might just be "ages" by Fódlan standards, especially for a noble family of such high status. Unlike women, men are capable of having children until they die, but based on how they met I don't think there's too big of an age gap between Ionius and Patricia.

[kremelover]

What do you all think about the ending of Azure Moon? 

Spoiler

I think the last scene is similar to Randolph's fate, but more open-ended.  Would you have prefered it been less tragic?

 

[eclipse]

7 hours ago, Landmaster said:

Byleth killed both Randolph and Fleche, but they both deserved it so no tears are shed~

. . .uh, what?  Fleche, arguably, but Randolph?

[Landmaster]

12 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .uh, what?  Fleche, arguably, but Randolph?

Imperial Army General, what else really needs to be said?

[omegaxis1]

5 hours ago, Sid Starkiller said:

To explain that one, Thales (having replaced Arundel already) convinced some of the other heads of Imperial noble houses to stage a coup, stripping power away from the emperor to take for themselves. Afterwards, Thales had Slither agents abduct Ionius' children to perform the experiments on them. The emperor KNEW the horrible things being done to Edelgard and the others, but no longer had the power to do anything to save them. If you've at least seen the coronation scene, you see just how horrible he feels for what happened to his children; that's why he so willingly gives Edelgard the crown. And I know you were kidding about the senility thing, but he really is in terrible health. His voice is low and sounds like he's gasping for breath all the time, and he does the "Chronic Cough of Imminent Death" (TM) is half his lines. He probably had months or even weeks left to live anyway.

The odd thing here is that Thales replaced Arundel in 1174, the year Arundel stopped donating to the Church and took Edelgard back to the Empire. 

But the Insurrection began in Year 1171, meaning that there was already an ongoing struggle, but only ended when Thales got in. Not sure where it was mentioned that Thales was the one that convinced the other nobles to help out. Hubert's testimony states that he teamed up with Aegir.

1 minute ago, Landmaster said:

Imperial Army General, what else really needs to be said?

Maybe that he didn't. He was a prisoner of war, but Dimitri wanted to torture the man to death. Not just that, he wanted Randolph watch him kill the subordinates first.

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Landmaster said:

Imperial Army General, what else really needs to be said?

"Deserved" is rather strong.  Yes, they're enemies, but Randolph could've been pretty valuable if left alive!

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yeah, Dimitri vs Randolph is arguably the biggest "you're kinda the bad guy here" moment in a game full of them. I have no idea how anyone can watch that scene and think that what occurs there is fine.

"I will continue to use you and your friends until the flesh falls from your bones."

2 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Imperial Army General, what else really needs to be said?

Maybe you should take a step back and think about rephrasing that statement in a way that doesn't endorse war crimes. Hint: replace "Imperial Army" with various real-world countries.

[Sid Starkiller]

Guys, he's clearly picking a fight. Don't waste your time.

[Landmaster]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Maybe that he didn't. He was a prisoner of war, but Dimitri wanted to torture the man to death. Not just that, he wanted Randolph watch him kill the subordinates first.

I don't really care if he ended up tortured or not, long as he got offed~ Byleth's way of handling it was fine with me~

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

"Deserved" is rather strong.  Yes, they're enemies, but Randolph could've been pretty valuable if left alive!

Maybe, I still think he deserved it~ I have no sympathy for the Imperial Army to be frank~

1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Maybe you should take a step back and think about rephrasing that statement in a way that doesn't endorse war crimes. Hint: replace "Imperial Army" with various real-world countries.

Or I could go with the answer I gave since we're not talking about real-world countries~

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

I don't really care if he ended up tortured or not, long as he got offed~ Byleth's way of handling it was fine with me~

Maybe, I still think he deserved it~ I have no sympathy for the Imperial Army to be frank~

Or I could go with the answer I gave since we're not talking about real-world countries~

Hmmm... I see... K thx bye.

7 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah, Dimitri vs Randolph is arguably the biggest "you're kinda the bad guy here" moment in a game full of them. I have no idea how anyone can watch that scene and think that what occurs there is fine.

"I will continue to use you and your friends until the flesh falls from your bones."

I feel like the fans try really hard to pretend that isn't there. Because they NEVER bring it up. Or ever respond to it when it's brought up.

[eclipse]

3 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Maybe, I still think he deserved it~ I have no sympathy for the Imperial Army to be frank~

. . .I'm so glad this is fictional.

Anyway, part of the allure of 3H is that there's an attempt of nuance between the armies.  In CF, Randolph has more character, so he's not merely a NPC with a name who happens to be captured.  In AM, he's an enemy general.  It would be one thing if he set a bunch of villages on fire, but being on the wrong side of AM?

Fleche can be argued that she invited her own demise by wielding a pointy thing at people during a time that wasn't active battle.

[Landmaster]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .I'm so glad this is fictional.

Anyway, part of the allure of 3H is that there's an attempt of nuance between the armies.  In CF, Randolph has more character, so he's not merely a NPC with a name who happens to be captured.  In AM, he's an enemy general.  It would be one thing if he set a bunch of villages on fire, but being on the wrong side of AM?

Fleche can be argued that she invited her own demise by wielding a pointy thing at people during a time that wasn't active battle.

Randolph in CF has no real effect on my opinion of him in AM (not that I like him either way)~ 

[Dark Holy Elf]

In the perhaps vain hope that Sid Starkiller is mistaken and you actually aren't just trolling:

4 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Or I could go with the answer I gave since we're not talking about real-world countries~

What kind of defence is that? Do you also also think that Ashnard wanting to exterminate the laguz is fine because laguz don't actually exist?

If the morality of anything in fiction is worth discussing at all (and given that you decided to pipe up on the subject, you seem to agree that it is), then you have to consider things as if the characters were real beings, even though we simultaneously understand they don't actually exist. In this case: the point is that saying someone deserves death just because they fight for [x army] is a deeply problematic view. And this view has in fact led to uncountable numbers of deaths in our world.

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I feel like the fans try really hard to pretend that isn't there. Because they NEVER bring it up. Or ever respond to it when it's brought up.

Huge Dimitri fan here, and I love the scene. But yeah, there is a certain segment of his fanbase that is weirdly in denial about his negative attributes (even though they're a big part of what make him so compelling IMO!).

[eclipse]

6 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Randolph in CF has no real effect on my opinion of him in AM (not that I like him either way)~ 

Lovely.  At least you're willing to admit that you've completely missed the entire point of 3H.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Huge Dimitri fan here, and I love the scene. But yeah, there is a certain segment of his fanbase that is weirdly in denial about his negative attributes (even though they're a big part of what make him so compelling IMO!).

Oh good, a rare find of a fan that doesn't deny his negative aspects. XD

One thing that bugged me is how people try and call Randolph some hypocrite for telling Dimitri off by saying he doesn't value life in their battle conversation. But from my perspective, Randolph has every right to call him out on it. Randolph's a soldier overall. He fights and kills because they're at war. 

But Dimitri kills for the sake of killing, since he's got ghosts in his head that tell him to kill. Mental illness, sure, but he's still basically more a murderer than anything. There's a fine line between killing someone in the line of duty and just killing for killing. 

[Dylan Corona]

I disliked the Empire in game, but I really actually liked Randolph. I was hoping he would be playable, actually. He seemed rather sweet haha.

[Landmaster]

Just now, Dark Holy Elf said:

What kind of defence is that? Do you also also think that Ashnard wanting to exterminate the laguz is fine because laguz don't actually exist?

If the morality of anything in fiction is worth discussing at all (and given that you decided to pipe up on the subject, you seem to agree that it is), then you have to consider things as if the characters were real beings, even though we simultaneously understand they don't actually exist. In this case: the point is that saying someone deserves death just because they fight for [x army] is a deeply problematic view. And this view has in fact led to uncountable numbers of deaths in our world.

I never played any game with Laguz and I have no context as to why anyone named Ashnard wanted them exterminated. I have no opinion on anything I haven't played.

He doesn't deserve death just for fighting for X Army. Being on X Army isn't the issue. The issue is the fact that the Imperial Army are the Invaders trampling over the lives of innocent people in a highly unnecessary war. When Randolph is captured, he acts like what he was doing was right and he's somehow not just as much of a murderer as Dimitri is because he thinks he's right. That's why I don't like Randolph. Because both of them are wrong and he doesn't see that.

Was Dimitri right for wanting to torture him? Probs not, but like I said, this is a video game and I'm far less willing to give sympathy to characters than I am real people~

Just now, eclipse said:

Lovely.  At least you're willing to admit that you've completely missed the entire point of 3H.

I mean, you're not going to talk me into liking Randolph no matter what the case is, I don't really care if you think I "missed the point of 3H" or not~

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

I mean, you're not going to talk me into liking Randolph no matter what the case is, I don't really care if you think I "missed the point of 3H" or not~

. . .that wasn't the point.  But something tells me it's probably not going to sink in for a few years, and neither of us have the time for that.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Landmaster said:

The issue is the fact that the Imperial Army are the Invaders trampling over the lives of innocent people in a highly unnecessary war.

Speak for yourself. It's because of the war that anything ever actually changed for the better. The game literally proves that without Edelgard's war, nothing was improving for the continent. 

2 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

When Randolph is captured, he acts like what he was doing was right and he's somehow not just as much of a murderer as Dimitri is because he thinks he's right.

There's a fine line between killing while fighting in a war, since you're in the line of duty, and killing for the literal sake of killing. That's Randolph and Dimitri respectively. 

3 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

I mean, you're not going to talk me into liking Randolph no matter what the case is, I don't really care if you think I "missed the point of 3H" or not~

Okay, the door's right there. Please go since you seem to not have much to really add onto the conversation.

4 minutes ago, Dylan Corona said:

I disliked the Empire in game, but I really actually liked Randolph. I was hoping he would be playable, actually. He seemed rather sweet haha.

Him and Fleche actually seemed like the Seteth/Flayn replacement.

[Landmaster]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Speak for yourself. It's because of the war that anything ever actually changed for the better. The game literally proves that without Edelgard's war, nothing was improving for the continent. 

There's a fine line between killing while fighting in a war, since you're in the line of duty, and killing for the literal sake of killing. That's Randolph and Dimitri respectively. 

Okay, the door's right there. Please go since you seem to not have much to really add onto the conversation.

I am speaking for myself, obviously~ Why would I be giving opinions for anyone else? I don't agree with the war, hence, I don't agree with Randolph. It's not that deep.

If you're invading the lands of innocent people and ruining their lives, then proceeding to act like you have any high moral ground to stand on, then you have no more regard for human life than anyone else~ 

All I did was answer the question of the topic, if you don't like the answer I give, cool~ Not going to change my opinion on the matter~

[Crysta]

Normally Randolph would die alongside his Imperial troops, since there is no point in the game where it indicates that you are taking prisoners of war or that your army is even interested in taking them.

But Dimitri orders you to capture him specifically to torture him. It’s an actual war crime lol

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

23 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah, Dimitri vs Randolph is arguably the biggest "you're kinda the bad guy here" moment in a game full of them. I have no idea how anyone can watch that scene and think that what occurs there is fine.

"I will continue to use you and your friends until the flesh falls from your bones."

Maybe you should take a step back and think about rephrasing that statement in a way that doesn't endorse war crimes. Hint: replace "Imperial Army" with various real-world countries.

My take is that, Dimitri is vengeful, overzealous, demented even - but he's not coming from the wrong side, morally speaking. Randolph speaks of him as a "crazed beast" who "viciously murders" Imperial troops. But in doing so, he blinds himself to the Empire's own responsibility for starting the war, and engineering the collapse of the Kingdom. Dimitri is the one fighting back against an aggressor. Does he take it too far in his rhetoric and mindset, absolutely. But Randolph needs to recognize that he, too, has blood on his hands for choosing to serve in the war.

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

There's a fine line between killing while fighting in a war, since you're in the line of duty, and killing for the literal sake of killing. That's Randolph and Dimitri respectively. 

I would agree if Dimitri were going after Kingdom soldiers as well. But Dimitri's killing is discriminate - he goes after the Imperial Army. The ones who started the war, and pushed Dimitri to his current state. He's basically a one-man guerilla army. I don't see him choosing to take the lives of his enemies, and Randolph choosing to take the lives of his enemies, as morally distinct. Randolph can say he was "only following orders", but he still made the choice to take lives along a path he thinks righteous. Just as Dimitri does.