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Glass_of_Milk

Why is Path of Radiance considered super easy?

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Because you get a lot of BEXP to level up your units. Growth rates are pretty high compared to the previous games. Your units have skills while the enemy does not for the most part. 

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Also because it usually directly compared to RD which I feel RD's normal mode is harder and needs more strategizing compared to even PoR's Hard mode.

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Winning the fight against the Black Knight at the end of Chapter 27 is anything but "super easy".

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There a slew of reasons for PoR's easiness.:

  • Enemy stats usually aren't that good. 
  • Your frontline units are fairly tanky. 
  • Mounties got buffed from GBA with post-attack Canto.
  • BEXP dumping exists. One massively overleveled unit can break a game, BEXP doesn't stop you from doing this.
  • The hardest difficulty was left out of the international version. Which still wasn't that difficult I believe, lots of enemies, bulky enemies, but BEXP dumps can still break things. Marcia, with only some luck, I recall seeing survive a pack of Chapter 24 enemies by herself.

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The only difficulty I remember having in FE9 is the length of maps. And Chapter 17 having to be done in four consecutive parts with no save inbetween is pretty scary. The threat of a lengthy reset is very real if you get complacent in Hard Mode, but I think FE9's easiness is really just owed to its easy and normal difficulties. Because when somebody talks about which game in the series is easiest, they're not comparing hard difficulties. 

 

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Promoted enemies before chapter 26 tend to have worse stats than first tier enemies (=FE8).

In general the lack on enemies's stats is the reason why non JP FE9 is very easy, imo the easiest game in the series.

There early game chapters are a bit challenging (mainly chapter 5 and 6), but after that it becomes simple.

I really wished more bosses like Morris and Schaeffer would move, but they only do in maniac mode from what I have seen.

This is why I wish a remake with JP maniac mode should be released for the west.

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10 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

And Chapter 17 having to be done in four consecutive parts with no save inbetween is pretty scary.

You do get to save in between parts.

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In the English version of FE9, the hardest difficulty is just... not very hard. Even FE8's Hard Mode ramps things up more than FE9's does. So it's kind of an artifact of the decision to remove Maniac mode.

Otherwise, most of the points have already been covered. In particular, BExp makes raising units easier than ever. And the mounted units in this game just feel way too powerful with their combination of high stats and canto, so if you use a lot of them it feels positively unfair. Enemies also don't have great stats, and unlike the GBA games which share this problem, FE9 rarely tries to hopelessly outnumber you.

On 1/26/2020 at 7:38 PM, NinjaMonkey said:

Winning the fight against the Black Knight at the end of Chapter 27 is anything but "super easy".

True but this is also completely optional, so doesn't really affect my opinion of the game's difficulty. People also talk about Final Fantasy VII being easy even if Emerald and Ruby Weapon are not.

Solos are also a very uninteresting type of difficulty in FE. I've had weak Ikes (either due to bad RNG or being underlevelled on challenge runs) struggle with the solo fight in RD and I can't say that's a very enjoyable type of "difficulty", it's just hoping you hit / don't get crit.

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Ike. Ike is the answer. An FE lord so good that not only can the game be won just using Ike, but it is one of the easiest ways to win the game (if you don't mind missing out on some items).

In all seriousness, I didn't know it was considered super easy. I suppose it would've been back in the pre-Awakening era, but now, comparatively, Path of Radiance looks pretty challenging. 

 

On 1/26/2020 at 10:38 PM, NinjaMonkey said:

Winning the fight against the Black Knight at the end of Chapter 27 is anything but "super easy".

This brings to mind something. I find that when people talk about challenge and difficulty in video games, they're often talking about two different things: 

With challenge, they're usually talking about how much involvement is required from the player to overcome the obstacles, while difficulty usually just refers to how hard it is regardless of player involvement. For example, overcoming the Black Knight is not very challenging, but it is very difficult. 

This means that, when someone describes something as easy, I have trouble figuring out what they're referring to: easy in terms of challenge, or difficulty?

 

Which one are you @Glass_of_Milk asking about; challenge or difficulty?

I'd say that Path of Radiance is probably fairly easy in terms of difficulty, but I wouldn't say it's an easy game when it comes to challenge. 

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It's not necessarily "easy", it just has some systems in place that can trivialize the game if you want to play it that way. Use Titania to kill everything early, dump BEXP and you clear 90% of the game with your brain turned off. It's similar to the Tower in Sacred Stones. It can make the game a joke if you want it to, but you don't even have to invest time, you can just do it for free.

Radiant Dawns BEXP scales differently, it has harder enemies and constantly switches who you play as, which makes the game harder to abuse.

12 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Ike. Ike is the answer. An FE lord so good that not only can the game be won just using Ike, but it is one of the easiest ways to win the game (if you don't mind missing out on some items).

And lest I forget the often memed upon, pathetically weak Dawn Brigade, which has nothing on the ultra chad lord Ike.

Edited by Classic

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4 hours ago, Classic said:

Radiant Dawns BEXP scales differently, it has harder enemies and constantly switches who you play as, which makes the game harder to abuse.

Both BEXP systems can be abused, RD's is just a little more picky about who abuses it.

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Hey so I know for Radiant Dawn, Easy mode is actually Normal mode and Normal mode is hard mode. Because they just labeled them like that for funsies, instead of creative an actual easy mode like PoR did. SO with all that said, is PoR's hard mode similar to RD's easy mode? Because Radiant Dawn I believe is considered to be a hard game by most people. So I was wondering if PoR hard mode is more difficult or about the same as RD's Easy mode.

As for me personally, despite LOVING those games I've actually only played them both once. I did normal on PoR and thought it was quite challenging. But I was also fairly new to Fire Emblem when I played it so I don't know if I just sucked back then.

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20 hours ago, PersonWithTime said:

SO with all that said, is PoR's hard mode similar to RD's easy mode?

I'd say RD easy is easier than PoR hard, mainly because of the abundance of XP in RD easy compared to PoR hard, but I don't have much experience with RD easy, so take that with a grain of salt.

RD is generally pretty hard, but I feel sometimes people overhype just how hard it is. If you use the more casual approach of building a team (or I guess in RDs case two teams) that you mainly stick to and ignore the "guest units" that the game often throws your way, which are super OP but only stay around for one or two chapters, like Tauroneo, Nailah, The Black Knight, etc. the game is a lot harder than it has to be. Depends on what you want out of your experience. Stomping individual maps with units I don't really care about isn't that fun for me, so I usually make the game harder for myself and ignore them.

Also, though arguably nerfed, BEXP is still a thing you can use and there is plenty of it on lower difficulties.

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14 minutes ago, Classic said:

I'd say RD easy is easier than PoR hard, mainly because of the abundance of XP in RD easy compared to PoR hard, but I don't have much experience with RD easy, so take that with a grain of salt.

RD is generally pretty hard, but I feel sometimes people overhype just how hard it is. If you use the more casual approach of building a team (or I guess in RDs case two teams) that you mainly stick to and ignore the "guest units" that the game often throws your way, which are super OP but only stay around for one or two chapters, like Tauroneo, Nailah, The Black Knight, etc. the game is a lot harder than it has to be. Depends on what you want out of your experience. Stomping individual maps with units I don't really care about isn't that fun for me, so I usually make the game harder for myself and ignore them.

Also, though arguably nerfed, BEXP is still a thing you can use and there is plenty of it on lower difficulties.

Not sure about that. Personally i find the DB part 3 maps a lot harder than the late DB maps. If i spammed Nailah then i would have to do the harder chapter whutout her and whitout the exp that she took. But then, i did not have beastfoe at all the first time. 

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1 minute ago, Flere210 said:

Not sure about that. Personally i find the DB part 3 maps a lot harder than the late DB maps. If i spammed Nailah then i would have to do the harder chapter whutout her and whitout the exp that she took. But then, i did not have beastfoe at all the first time. 

True, fighting Laguz with the DB is probably the hardest part of the game (but some earlier chapters would also be a lot harder if you didn't have someone to fall back on).

Beastfoe does help, but even that part can be made somewhat easy by doing what speedrunners do and investing all the DB resources into Jill and parking her near enemies. At that point in the game she's snowballed enough to kill everything. Not very fun, but it works very well, at least on easy and normal.

Difficulty varies a lot depending on how you want to play. You can make the game quite easy if you want it to be, the real question is do you want to go through the game as easily as possible or do you want to experience the actual game? The less you want to abuse speedrun or LTC tactics the harder the game gets. If you play though the game the way most people will and distribute resources so all the characters you want to use are more even, some parts can be pretty hard, a lot more so than in PoR, so for the average player it'll be harder, if that's the metric you want to use.

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Focusing all resources in a single unit is counterintuitive and more than anything else indicative of a flaw in the scaling. I find unlikely that casual players did that. 

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18 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Focusing all resources in a single unit is counterintuitive and more than anything else indicative of a flaw in the scaling. I find unlikely that casual players did that. 

Yes

34 minutes ago, Classic said:

If you play though the game the way most people will and distribute resources so all the characters you want to use are more even, some parts can be pretty hard, a lot more so than in PoR, so for the average player it'll be harder, if that's the metric you want to use.

I don't disagree with you, the game is harder than some other FE games, but it can still be cheesed if you want to go that route.

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I remember once upon a time booting up PoR, finding a save file I'd started and left at Ch 1, and just picking up with that. A few chapters later I was finding it too easy, and so, assuming it was on normal mode, I made a new save on hard mode, only to see the save files were the same color and thus both hard mode.

But yeah, the question has been answered.

On 1/29/2020 at 6:07 PM, vanguard333 said:

Ike. Ike is the answer. An FE lord so good that not only can the game be won just using Ike, but it is one of the easiest ways to win the game (if you don't mind missing out on some items).

There are way easier ways to beat PoR than just using Ike lol.

Edited by Florete

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Before I start (wasting) a thread, I guess it's a good opportunity to ask it here:

Is it even worth to play FE9 in maniac mode?

Things I know about this mode:

  • more enemies
  • less battle and bonus exp. gain (battle exp. is same as in FE10's hard mode)
  • some bosses have slightly better stats
  • some bosses move (like Norris)
  • promoted enemies have serious stats

But these things cannot confirm for me, it would be satisfying to try it out, so ask this in the round.

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On 2/7/2020 at 7:06 AM, Falcom Knight said:

Is it even worth to play FE9 in maniac mode?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Probably not, it's just a grindfest you complete for bragging rights, it's an absolute chore of unimaginable proportion.

Enemy phases are already long on hard, but with the amount of enemies in Maniac mode, turns take multiple minutes on enemy phase alone. "Clash!" probably has 70+ enemies counting reinforcements. On the other hand more enemies mean more EXP. And there are a LOT of enemies.

Almost every enemy has 2 range, which, combined with their high stats, means you will never one round in enemy phase (you barely one round at 1 range too). So all the enemies get multiple turns of movement/attack and you'll have to wait even longer.

Difficulty wise it is definitely possible if you're familiar with the game, it just takes some waiting.

If I were to make a comparison for a Falcom enthusiast, it's like playing Trails in the Sky No NG+ Nightmare, but you're not allowed to use Turbo.

All in all not really my idea of fun, but if you get over the waiting it is quite a satisfying challenge to complete.

If you really want to try, my advice would be:

  • Javelins and Hand Axes (and their better variants) are super important, swords are even worse
  • Mounted units are king, use them
  • Earth (and other dodge) support is even better, since dodging is the only viable way of damage mitigation with the amount of enemies around, so keep support partners together
  • Remember to use all item/weapon slots especially on your Laguz, Staffbots and Rogue, weapons will break often so keep backup (keep in mind Rogues need free inventory space to steal)
  • There is next to no BEXP around, but don't hoard it, use it to snowball, you'll need all the immediate advantage you can get
  • There are a lot of enemy Siege Tomes, Pure Water is your best friend
  • Sniping some Bosses (e.g. with your own Siege Tomes) and leaving EXP behind can the best way to clear a map

Hope that helps.

Edited by Classic

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Is it even worth to play FE9 in maniac mode?

What exactly is a worthwhile run? Is it required to have fun? Is a Reset a no go? My take is that a run isn't worthwhile, if there aren't enough differences between another run. E.g. I wouldn't consider it worthwhile to play FE11 H4 when you have beaten H5 of that game, as the difference is too little.

By contrast, a Maniac Run is completely different, harder and challenging than a Hard Mode Run. The game will be played in a new way, as many elements in hard mode like soloing maps with a Flyer/Horse that packs enough forged two ranged weapons aren't possible. Lower BEXP also means not being able to set up a powerful team as fast. And so on.

 

The long duration of enemy phases is true. Battle animations can't be put off in this game, the enemy density is high and they are durable. All three factors combined make up for the slowest and sluggish Hard Mode in the franchise. If you can deal with that, you can deal with the worst of this game. If not, then yeah, don't bother. I played Maniac Mode slightly under 10 times, but only because I don't mind the pace. I'm not in hurry when I'm playing videogames and like to play for hours, rather than a couple of minutes.

 

Quote

Almost every enemy has 2 range

Almost is an exaggeration, but there are certainly many. Check the enemy stats, it also includes the equipment: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13o8iTXOvkr0CsZzxinBtk9lj7DhYBxcwiRXiQQ0Rwnw/edit#gid=340590618

Quite often the more powerful units with forged Steel/Silver weapons can ORKO an approaching enemy group. And if a good unit is send in with a Handaxe/Javelin, it may not kill the approaching enemies in the enemy phase, but as usual, the harder FEs warrant a optimized player phase on your part. If all the weakened enemies can be ORKOed by your units the next turn (and with Canto and Reyson, you have a good numbers to match up the high amount of enemies) . Maniac Mode is only as sluggish as your performance and skill.

I also add that not only the first two cavaliers (Astrid and Makalov are optional and have to be babysitted until chapter 18), but Marcia and Jill (hopefully there are some speedwings left) are superior to the non-mounts. High move and canto is still good and those units tend to have better or as good combat stats as the non mounted units (only trained Boyd could potentially outclass them in the offense and his durability is slightly lower). Earth supports are rare and most supports take way too much to depend of them. The only real good support that gives a notable amount of avoid is the Ike-Oscar one. The other ones take to long.

 

My advice:

Obviously train Ike. He can sort of solo the last two chapters with Wrath/Resolve.

Get Oscar or Marcia promoted asap, give them all the BEXP. It is possible to promote Oscar in chapter 9, giving you a second and better Titania. Otherwise, Marcia is still the best unit and the faster she gets promoted, the faster she snowballs.

Early- and Midgame have enemies with equal if not better stats than your own group. If your units are only slightly better, it doesn't change their performance much, so they are either useful or useless. Titania and the Laguz are a huge help to beat/weaken enemies for them. This is why its much better to focus on Titania and a few good units rather than spreading out anyone. Though almost everyone should be promoted at chapter 18, the prepromotes can't carry the team at this time anymore.

Always forge Steel Axes and Steel Lances. Maybe Handaxes or Javelins if they would be apparently useful for the following chapter. Maybe forge one time a Steel Sword, if Ike or Makalov want one (unlikely). Later on, forge Silver Axes and Silver Lances.

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1 hour ago, Aircalipoor said:

Almost is an exaggeration, but there are certainly many. Check the enemy stats, it also includes the equipment: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13o8iTXOvkr0CsZzxinBtk9lj7DhYBxcwiRXiQQ0Rwnw/edit#gid=340590618

Wow, I had no idea that existed, very nice! Knowing all this ahead of time makes things a lot less stressful. Also yeah it looks like only about 60-70% of non-Laguz have 2 range in later chapters, I thought it was more like 80-90%, but I guess those enemies are just more annoying, so I remember them a lot more.

1 hour ago, Aircalipoor said:

Earth supports are rare and most supports take way too much to depend of them. The only real good support that gives a notable amount of avoid is the Ike-Oscar one. The other ones take to long.

I'd say something like Oscar-Kieran gives a good amount of avo (22), too, and is reasonably fast (A at chapter 16? I think?)

And Pegasus/Wyvern Riders are of course not Cavaliers with wings, but their own classes. I kinda just always lump in all mounted units with Cavaliers and then confuse people when talking about mounted units. Already edited my previous post for clarity on that point.

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18 hours ago, Classic said:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Probably not, it's just a grindfest you complete for bragging rights, it's an absolute chore of unimaginable proportion.

Enemy phases are already long on hard, but with the amount of enemies in Maniac mode, turns take multiple minutes on enemy phase alone. "Clash!" probably has 70+ enemies counting reinforcements. On the other hand more enemies mean more EXP. And there are a LOT of enemies.

Almost every enemy has 2 range, which, combined with their high stats, means you will never one round in enemy phase (you barely one round at 1 range too). So all the enemies get multiple turns of movement/attack and you'll have to wait even longer.

Difficulty wise it is definitely possible if you're familiar with the game, it just takes some waiting.

If I were to make a comparison for a Falcom enthusiast, it's like playing Trails in the Sky No NG+ Nightmare, but you're not allowed to use Turbo.

All in all not really my idea of fun, but if you get over the waiting it is quite a satisfying challenge to complete.

If you really want to try, my advice would be:

  • Javelins and Hand Axes (and their better variants) are super important, swords are even worse
  • Mounted units are king, use them
  • Earth (and other dodge) support is even better, since dodging is the only viable way of damage mitigation with the amount of enemies around, so keep support partners together
  • Remember to use all item/weapon slots especially on your Laguz, Staffbots and Rogue, weapons will break often so keep backup (keep in mind Rogues need free inventory space to steal)
  • There is next to no BEXP around, but don't hoard it, use it to snowball, you'll need all the immediate advantage you can get
  • There are a lot of enemy Siege Tomes, Pure Water is your best friend
  • Sniping some Bosses (e.g. with your own Siege Tomes) and leaving EXP behind can the best way to clear a map

Hope that helps.

It sounds like that maniac mode is more enemy phase focussed, since (dodge)tanking is more important.

From the description I would not consider it as entirely hard, but just slows down the (already) slow gameplay.

I don't know what to think about it.

 

15 hours ago, Aircalipoor said:

What exactly is a worthwhile run? Is it required to have fun? Is a Reset a no go?

My definition would be a challenging but not entirely lenghtened run.

My main issues with FE9's hard mode are, that promoted enemies share the same fate with FE8's by having lower stats than first tier enemies, and that most bosses are stationary. Seeing a movable Schaeffer and Norris would make things more interesting for being an actual threat.

From what I read, the game is not entirely harder (tbf difficulty spike between normal and hard in FE10 is only marginal and only really affects a few characters like Edward), but it slows down things by having way more enemies and so longer enemy phases.

FE10, whilst not really hard outside of the DB chapters, has a really good hard mode overall regarding enemies stats (letting gameplay aspects like no visible movement range aside). Since the amount of enemies is unchanged compared to normal mode and it has skippable battle animations, the game never really felt boring to me.

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It sounds like that maniac mode is more enemy phase focussed, since (dodge)tanking is more important.

Player phase is arguable more important, as the weaker units get O-2RKOed and ORKOing is harder. Dodge tanking is only viable by Ike and Oscar, since they get 20 /30 avoid early in the game.

Quote

From the description I would not consider it as entirely hard, but just slows down the (already) slow gameplay.

Quote

From what I read, the game is not entirely harder (tbf difficulty spike between normal and hard in FE10 is only marginal and only really affects a few characters like Edward), but it slows down things by having way more enemies and so longer enemy phases.

It's both. Maniac is much harder than Hard Mode, but also slower because of it.

Quote

My main issues with FE9's hard mode are, that promoted enemies share the same fate with FE8's by having lower stats than first tier enemies

Not in FE9. Promoted units appear earlier and starting with chapter 18, almost all enemies are promoted. And even unpromoted enemies have high stats comparable with your own units. It isn't anything like FE8 HM or FE9 HM.

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