I think it was a good idea that far-fetched was removed

[Icelerate]

20 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

This

Contradicts this. Pick one.

How are you gonna say that adding popular characters is a bad thing because it takes the chance away from obscure ones only to say the exact opposite on the following paragraph?

Nothing contradicts in my post. The point of far-fetched banners is to add four of the most popular characters into the game. The point of the other banners is to add new characters into the game, whether they are popular or unpopular. 

If botters got their way, it's not the people choosing the banner, nor is it IS, but some cheater. I'd prefer IS chooses the banners with their own judgement while taking into consideration what the people want but not exclusively being dictated by the people. 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Icelerate

[Baldrick]

56 minutes ago, Florete said:

Normal Selkie was in months before Farfetched would have happened and there's no way they would have put Lif on Farfetched instead of having him be a Mythic. ...

This is leaving out the fact that we can't even say for sure if Bruno and Louise would have been on it.

So many candidates being ineligible because IS won't change their plans reinforces that Farfetched doesn't really have any effect on who gets added to Heroes, and so doesn't have any purpose. Brave Heroes are the only way fans have any say on the roster.

You also skipped Anna (Awakening).

Fair enough.

That said, with Anna (Heroes) being virtually the same character I feel it's not a huge loss.

[Sentinel07]

I think it really just comes down to the fact that the amount of characters that can headline a banner are shrinking.

I mean, just look at PoR specifically. There are few characters that aren't already in the game that are really popular. Jill is really one of few big names remaining from that game. Why spend her on a Farfetched banner when she can headline a PoR banner alongside some other less popular characters?

 

[Florete]

9 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

So many candidates being ineligible because IS won't change their plans reinforces that Farfetched doesn't really have any effect on who gets added to Heroes, and so doesn't have any purpose. Brave Heroes are the only way fans have any say on the roster.

I don't disagree. I was just saying.

9 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Fair enough.

That said, with Anna (Heroes) being virtually the same character I feel it's not a huge loss.

IS apparently considers them different enough to give them different, non-combined CYL slots. And if they didn't, we'd have Brave Anna now instead of Brave Camilla.

Also, Odin and Owain.

[Benice]

I liked Farfetched, because, again, more control over who we get. As we can see, the people in IntSys aren't idiots without brains, they'd PROBABLY be able to tell that Jorge getting about 6k votes is a prank; If Nealuchi made top 100, nobody in intsys would think, WOW! BIG POPULARITY SPIKE THAT ABSOLUTELY WASN'T A BOTTER GOING CRAZY! HA HA! BETTER ADD HIM IN FARFETCHED! 

It also satisfies the fetishes of the "Lords shoudln't win CYL people," since Lords aren't likely to be in a farfetched banner. I'm sad, but I'm certain Jill wil make it in this year. Even if it's a seasonal.

[Baldrick]

12 minutes ago, Florete said:

IS apparently considers them different enough to give them different, non-combined CYL slots.

It's kind of a grey area in which she wouldn't technically be an alt, but she wouldn't improve the representation of Heroes.

12 minutes ago, Florete said:

And if they didn't, we'd have Brave Anna now instead of

How do I reach this universe?

[NoirCore]

Honestly, another reason why I think the runner-up banners should stay is because it gives incentive to vote for others not in the game yet over just CYL contenders. It was part of the charm (intentional or not) to increase another character's odds of getting in, and I don't think one reported instance of bot activity for one character would have spoiled that for everyone. But with no runner up banner this year, that charm was gone.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I disagree. It was a bad idea to remove Farfetched. It helped give players at least a little control over some characters getting into the game, it promoted voting for your favorites rather than just the main lords who were almost guaranteed victory, and it gave something for people to be both excited and curious about, since we don't know the results of that banner until the banner actually drops. And if Farfetched was a thing this last CYL cycle, then we'd have finally gotten Awakening Anna, Nils, Jill, three very highly requested characters not yet in the game in any form.

[Ice Dragon]

Here is all 32 characters that made it onto the top 100 of CYL 3 that weren't already in the game at that time (I'm excluding Grima at rank 69 because Grima is effectively in the game already).

Spoiler

• 5 Anna (Awakening)
• 14 Bruno
• 16 Lif
• 22 Selkie
• 23 Louise
• 26 Ranulf
• 35 Thrasir
• 37 Haar
• 52 Jill
• 54 Panne
• 55 Velouria
• 56 Rinea
• 60 Lethe
• 64 Keaton
• 65 Rinkah
• 66 Anna (Fates)
• 67 Ilyana
• 68 Hel
• 71 Kaden
• 77 Lilith
• 78 Naga
• 79 Selena (Sacred Stones)
• 81 Caineghis
• 82 Tibarn
• 83 Idunn
• 84 Conrad
• 85 Nils
• 86 Shinon
• 90 Rath
• 92 Cormag
• 99 Mila
• 100 Python

Of them, there are 6 characters that would have been unlikely to have been added in a hypothetical Farfetched Heroes banner (Bruno, Lif, Thrasir, Hel, Naga, and Mila), meaning of the 26 characters 17 of them became playable since CYL 3's results were announced. That's 65%.

If you compare this to CYL 2, there were 39 characters that made it into the top 100 that were not already in the game.

Spoiler

• 4 Veronica
• 10 Loki
• 20 Leif
• 21 Selkie
• 22 Morgan (female)
• 26 Owain
• 29 Laevatein
• 33 Kliff
• 34 Keaton
• 41 Aversa
• 43 Ishtar
• 44 Panne
• 46 Kaden
• 49 Myrrh
• 51 Maribelle
• 53 Sumia
• 54 Velouria
• 57 Marisa
• 58 Tibarn
• 59 Kaze
• 61 Ophelia
• 62 Surtr
• 64 Haar
• 65 Lewyn
• 68 Anna (Awakening)
• 69 Ranulf
• 71 Bruno
• 72 Louise
• 76 Rinea
• 77 Kana (female)
• 81 Nils
• 83 Rinkah
• 85 Flora
• 86 Lethe
• 87 Ranulf
• 89 Canas
• 91 Lilith
• 97 Morgan (male)
• 100 Cormag

Of those, 11 were unlikely to have qualified for Brave Redux (being Veronica, Bruno, or a beast unit), meaning of the 28 characters that were eligible, only 16 of them were made playable. That's 57%. The 4 characters added in Brave Redux increased that number to 20 out of 28, which is 71%, effectively the same as what we got this year without a Farfetched Heroes banner.

However, there was technically nothing preventing them from designing and introducing beast weapons prior to Brave Redux, so if we count the 9 beast units back in, 2018 would have had only a paltry 54% of qualifying units being made playable.

 

I think it's perfectly fair to say that the reason we didn't get a Farfetched Heroes banner this year was because they felt that they had already covered a significant enough amount of the unimplemented highly ranked characters that a Farfetched Heroes banner was simply not necessary, having blown previous years completely out of the water in that regard.

I also don't think it's accurate to say that a lack of a Farfetched Heroes banner gives players less control over which characters are added to the game because I think they've simply been putting those units onto other banners instead.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Ice Dragon

[Hilda]

icwould like to point out that seasonal/special heroes does not count. The cant be summoned nor can you get pitty-broken by them. They also do not reflect the version people have been voting for.

[Humanoid]

Personally somewhat indifferent if I look at who the candidates for Farfetched would have been. Given the choice between them or the New Heroes we actually got, it turns out I'm not especially invested in either set. Which leaves the pure functionality of the heroes themselves. Farfetched heroes probably end up superior in terms of the quality of their kit, but at the cost of no demote. That's a tradeoff of approximately equal value to me.

Then there are the New Heroes banners with no demote, like that one with Mareeta and Eyvel, the worst of both worlds. So actually I've talked myself into wanting Farfetched just to replace banners like that.

 

[SSbardock84]

Eh, I mean, I'd be fine with it removed if they actually added full versions of all the characters they should've added. Like Louise for instance only got a seasonal instead of being added. It was definitely great that we have been getting more banners frequently, but those characters deserve to be in the game as their originals because of the votings people put towards them. Even though if I don't necessarily care about some of the characters.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

icwould like to point out that seasonal/special heroes does not count. The cant be summoned nor can you get pitty-broken by them. They also do not reflect the version people have been voting for.

"Available as a playable character" means "available as a playable character". No arbitrary conditions.

 

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

The cant be summoned

Last time I checked, Special Heroes banners are still banners.

 

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

nor can you get pitty-broken by them.

I can't be pity broken by Lif, Thrasir, Haar, Panne, Naga, Conrad, Cormag, Aversa, Marisa, or Canas, either. But they're definitely in the game.

 

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

They also do not reflect the version people have been voting for.

Radiant Dawn Mia placed higher than Path of Radiance Mia in both CYL 1 and CYL 2, so should I also count Radiant Dawn Mia as not yet in the game for you because we didn't get the version we voted for?

Edited February 1, 2020 by Ice Dragon

[Othin]

11 hours ago, Hilda said:

icwould like to point out that seasonal/special heroes does not count. The cant be summoned nor can you get pitty-broken by them. They also do not reflect the version people have been voting for.

They're not the same as regular versions, but they do count for something.

Looking over the leaked CYL results:

The units that have been added as just seasonals between CYL3 and CYL4, with their rank changes, are:

• Bruno: 14 (13,483) to 64 (2,831)
• Louise: 23 (9,274) to 361 (293)
• Rinea: 56 (4,699) to 223 (660)
• Ilyana: 67 (4,022) to 107 (1,469)
• Pent: 103 (2,619) to 243 (579)
• Greil: 119 (2,258) to 221 (674)
• Fiora: 211 (1,092) to 318 (389)
• Elice: 239 (938) to 224 (659)
• Wolt: 260 (844) to 235 (600)
• Tanith: 358 (454) to 436 (179)
• Rolf: 369 (427) to 424 (195)
• Dozla: 404 (326) to 510 (85)
• Young Zephiel: 440 (236) to 497 (99)

Of these 13 units, Elice and Wolt are the only two to beat their original ranks. All the others fell by at least 40 ranks (often at least 100) and dropped to under half their previous votes (often less than a third).

This isn't a complete analysis without more of a baseline for how ranks and votes have changed for other units - for example, despite increasing slightly in rank, Elise and Wolt actually lost about a third of their votes. However, I'd say this suggests showing up even as just a seasonal tends to decrease how many votes a character gets - at least, as a solo seasonal. The fact that Elise was the only one of the 13 to show up as a secondary duo unit and is also one of the two to not drop in ranks suggests that secondary duo units probably don't have the same effect.

[Roflolxp54]

I've pretty much joined the "IDC" list mainly due to the current state of summoning and the game. Lately, summoning hasn't been updated in a meaningful way recently and generally speaking, any banner that isn't the monthly banner is typically not worth pulling on. If the player doesn't care about the fodder or the characters themselves, then it's reasonable to assume that the Farfetched banner would be tossed into the Skip bin anyways.

[NekoKnight]

I really miss Farfetched and I don't agree with the sentiment that "we don't need it because many of the higher ranking characters made it in anyway. Even if the original runner up characters are already in the game, Farfetched still gives us THE MOST WANTED CHARACTERS not yet in the game. It's still a reflection of player interests which is a positive for new character banners.

To contradict OPs point, no a bunch of unpopular characters that no one wants chosen by IS is not better than a group of characters chosen by the players.

And for a final point, the Farfetched heroes are generally given premium kits so that batch of characters isn't going to be screwed like a character might be if they were chosen as the demote. I understand that being 5* locked has its own issues but getting a shit kit and/or statline is a pretty big let down.

[Icelerate]

4 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I really miss Farfetched and I don't agree with the sentiment that "we don't need it because many of the higher ranking characters made it in anyway. Even if the original runner up characters are already in the game, Farfetched still gives us THE MOST WANTED CHARACTERS not yet in the game. It's still a reflection of player interests which is a positive for new character banners.

To contradict OPs point, no a bunch of unpopular characters that no one wants chosen by IS is not better than a group of characters chosen by the players.

And for a final point, the Farfetched heroes are generally given premium kits so that batch of characters isn't going to be screwed like a character might be if they were chosen as the demote. I understand that being 5* locked has its own issues but getting a shit kit and/or statline is a pretty big let down.

Just because the banner has the most popular characters not yet in the game doesn't mean the banner in and of itself will be exciting to a maximum number of people. For example, imagine the banner has Nils, Jill, Shinon and Awakening Anna. A Nils fan might be better off if he came on an FE7 banner because chances are, the Nils fan is more likely to be a fan of other FE7 characters. But it is in IS' interests not to throw all their popular characters in one banner while it is not necessarily in the player's interests. 

Your contradiction of my point is a straw man because I never said IS chooses a bunch of unpopular characters that nobody wants. Nor did I say it is better than farfetched to have a banner of nobodies. 

Premium kits accelerate the rate of power creep so while I can understand where you are coming from, it can be spun as a negative. 

[Ice Dragon]

24 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Even if the original runner up characters are already in the game, Farfetched still gives us THE MOST WANTED CHARACTERS not yet in the game.

While it can be argued that Farfetched Heroes objectively gives use the most wanted characters in the game that aren't already playable, you can also look at it from the other direction.

Brave Redux gave us the characters that were ranked #2, #6, #8, and #10 out of the characters that weren't already in the game at the time of CYL 2.

On the other hand, if we got a Farfetched Heroes banner for CYL 3 right now, assuming that seasonals and Bruno (and Hel, but she's too low to matter) are excluded, that would mean the characters that are at rank #1, #10, #27, and #28.

It's pretty clear that they've managed to get significantly more of the top-placing characters into the game this year than in previous years by simply using the normal banners.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Ice Dragon

[NekoKnight]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

Just because the banner has the most popular characters not yet in the game doesn't mean the banner in and of itself will be exciting to a maximum number of people. For example, imagine the banner has Nils, Jill, Shinon and Awakening Anna. A Nils fan might be better off if he came on an FE7 banner because chances are, the Nils fan is more likely to be a fan of other FE7 characters. But it is in IS' interests not to throw all their popular characters in one banner while it is not necessarily in the player's interests. 

Just because I'm a fan of Blazing Sword doesn't mean I'd want all of the possible characters on that banner. I generally only want (not to mention can only afford) 1-2 units on any banner. If a banner has even one character I want on it, it's good enough for me. Also, as CYL4 has shown, people are often more upset or are at least disinterested when a banner is only from one game. A full Blazing Sword banner does nothing for Awakening fans, for example. I'm not saying that single game banners are better or worse than mixed ones, just that there is no universally agreed upon "best banner", although Farfetched gets closer to this by being characters people voted for.

7 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Your contradiction of my point is a straw man because I never said IS chooses a bunch of unpopular characters that nobody wants. Nor did I say it is better than farfetched to have a banner of nobodies. 

 

The main point I wanted to hit was not about IS choosing absolute nobodies, just that it's not better for IS to choose banner content than it is for players to have some sway. I want regular outfit Mikoto in the game, but if people voted for other characters then I have to concede that is what the community wants the most.

10 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Premium kits accelerate the rate of power creep so while I can understand where you are coming from, it can be spun as a negative. 

I can agree with this point, which is why I stated it last, as one of my weaker points. I do think the Farfetched banner was nice, however, because all the heroes on it got good kits which were enticing to pull for. Loki adds way more to the game than Mercedes does.

[Baldrick]

1 minute ago, NekoKnight said:

I'm not saying that single game banners are better or worse than mixed ones, just that there is no universally agreed upon "best banner", although Farfetched gets closer to this by being characters people voted for.

Farfetched is a bad banner because it "uses up" popular characters without adding less popular characters as demotes or freebies (by the way, you shouldn't nobody wants those characters unless you intend to trash the opinion of people who like less popular characters). Joshua and Aversa are certainly popular enough to be banner units, but they take up the free spots that could get a couple of less popular characters in, and without them helping to fill banners IS resorts to alts on New Hero banners or replacing them with seasonals that much sooner.

[Xenomata]

I'm largely in the Don't Care club. Maybe it used to matter, because at least the units were given above-average stat spreads and good weapons (not as good as proper Brave Heroes, albeit). Heck, I +10ed Mia and everyone in Farfetched 2 besides Aversa.
But if all you want is a banner meant to bring in popular characters, well one I don't wanna say "just wait for another game-themed banner they'll probably appear" because there are no guarantees, but I will say that CYL at least brings awareness and may influence the devs when picking out units to feature in later banners maybe?

But second, if Farfetched is supposed to bring in popular characters not in the game yet, well guess what? Top Females not in the game yet were Academy Bernadetta and Plumeria (ignoring her though it's then War Dorothea), and Top Males not in the game yet were War Felix and War Ashe. So any wishes of bringing in [insert character here] are completely toppled this year because Three Houses dominated the Top 20.

And therein lies three and my main reason for being Don't Care: I can't bring myself to care about these fan-voted banners. I typically don't care as much for Lords/main characters as others do, but they're almost ALWAYS the highest rated characters. I don't care much for the "sexy" or waifu women, but they always seem to do very well anyway. And anyone I do like, Benny from FE Fates for instance? He placed 273rd with only 487 votes. Bad example? How about Midori? 233rd. Mitama? 305th. Even Charlotte, who is a "sexy" women that I'm pretty sure people do like? 97th, nowhere near close enough to be placed on a Farfetched banner.
I'm naturally being pushed away from these banners because the characters I like are completely shafted. And sure maybe these guys will be some of the coolest units we get for all of FEH's lifetime; regardless, you can't make me care about a fan-voted banner if I wasn't one of those fans.

So please, tell me why I'm wrong. Tell me why Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and Lysithea deserve to be the top heroes over the four Fates units above even being near a Farfetched Hero slot. But please understand that I'm not saying I don't like it, I'm saying I can't care.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Xenomata

[XRay]

5 hours ago, Xenomata said:

So please, tell me why I'm wrong. Tell me why Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and Lysithea deserve to be the top heroes over the four Fates units above even being near a Farfetched Hero slot. But please understand that I'm not saying I don't like it, I'm saying I can't care.

I do not care who they release as characters, and it is not like that even matters to me since I rarely use my favorite characters anyways. As far as I am concerned, they can release nothing but Surtr alts and I would still play the game.

However, just because I do not care about something does not mean I also should not care about how other players feel and react. Removing player control is something I fundamentally disagree with and that can be a factor in driving players away, and driving players away is not good for the health and longevity of the game. A Farfetched Heroes/Brave Redux Focus is literally customers telling a company to sell a specific product so those customers can throw money at the company.

You do not have to care about who they release as Heroes, because I certainly do not. However, I do care about the health of the game and I think other players should care about that too, and as an extension of that, that means knowing about how the community feels and support what the community wants. Obviously, if what you want is in direct conflict with what the community wants, then obviously do not give up what you want and do not support the community. But, if it is an issue you do not care about but the community does, I would support the community since it does not cost me anything.

[Rezzy]

If they actually released the highest voted units, I wouldn't mind as much, but Jill scored highly last year's CYL and still hasn't been added.  She might have been slightly lower than the Beast units all at the top, but they were added early last year and were planned before CYL3.  There was plenty of time to add another Tellius banner if they wanted to ditch the far fetched idea.

[thanny]

I never really minded the Farfetched Heroes banners, as it was just another means to get more new characters into Heroes. Since we have regular banners with characters from their respective games and themes, so I don't really mind if these banners stopped occurring. 

Though I was quite sad that Owain didn't debut alongside with Inigo and Severa in a banner.. could have had a Tempest Trial with the banner and with their Fates alter egos too as bonus units...

[SoulWeaver]

It's difficult. On one hand, I have to agree with Xenomata - I'm still waiting for Limstella and Nichol, and it's going to be a long time before that happens. I'm generally a little more open in my character likes, so I was down for both Farfetched Banners since I had Joshua, who I liked, and Loki, who had a fairly solid kit, especially for a Staff Unit, but still, it doesn't really hurt my own wishes to lose it. On the other hand, there are a fair number of people who did get their wishes hurt, and I am trying to keep the rest of the playerbase in consideration as well. On one hand, Farfetched is actually why I went in hard on Idunn and Nagi, in hopes that they'd place high enough to land there. While I did ultimately get those two in the game outside of Farfetched, not everyone is going to get that opportunity. On the other hand, this is probably the truth regardless of Farfetched.
Ultimately, something about it getting dropped just felt nasty to me, so I say it wasn't a good idea, but if they'd gone about it differently I might have said otherwise.