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End of time

Who are some of the most overrated characters development/character wise.

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I can say I like the majority of the cast of Three Houses. I thought a lot of the characters had enough going for them. The characters I'm going to name are characters I like,  but find a tad overrated.

Black Eagles: Bernadetta. I really like Bernie, but I don't think her backstory justifies how annoying she can be. Peri also had a sad backstory and that doesn't really make her a better character. However, I will say Bernie is most enjoyable on the Crimson Flower path. Her character comes full circle and is genuinely enjoyable to interact with.

Blue Lions: I agree with you on Sylvain. Yes, he has his reasons for his behavior. But despite his level of self-awareness, he still actively pursues something he hates? I don't get it. Luckily it gets toned down in the timeskip and he has a nice voice to listen to. He does develop as a character, but it's a little more subtle than other characters.

Golden Deer: I'm stuck between Lysithea and Marianne, both of which I actually like. Lysithea can be mean for no reason at times. Like, she's a straight up asshole. Her supports with Ignatz and Marianne are so uncomfortable to watch because she just berates them without much to warrant it. Marianne is also a bit overrated, but I think my main problem with Marianne is not her, but her fanbase. I get a creepy feeling from them at times. Sometimes some comments about her makes me feel like they're fetishizing broken women and that just rubs me the wrong way.

Church: None of the popular members of this group are overrated. 

Again, I would like to point out that I do like all these characters and see their merit. If you would like to change my mind civally, I wouldn't mind reading what you have to say.

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2 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

I can say I like the majority of the cast of Three Houses. I thought a lot of the characters had enough going for them. The characters I'm going to name are characters I like,  but find a tad overrated.

Black Eagles: Bernadetta. I really like Bernie, but I don't think her backstory justifies how annoying she can be. Peri also had a sad backstory and that doesn't really make her a better character. However, I will say Bernie is most enjoyable on the Crimson Flower path. Her character comes full circle and is genuinely enjoyable to interact with.

Blue Lions: I agree with you on Sylvain. Yes, he has his reasons for his behavior. But despite his level of self-awareness, he still actively pursues something he hates? I don't get it. Luckily it gets toned down in the timeskip and he has a nice voice to listen to. He does develop as a character, but it's a little more subtle than other characters.

Golden Deer: I'm stuck between Lysithea and Marianne, both of which I actually like. Lysithea can be mean for no reason at times. Like, she's a straight up asshole. Her supports with Ignatz and Marianne are so uncomfortable to watch because she just berates them without much to warrant it. Marianne is also a bit overrated, but I think my main problem with Marianne is not her, but her fanbase. I get a creepy feeling from them at times. Sometimes some comments about her makes me feel like they're fetishizing broken women and that just rubs me the wrong way.

Church: None of the popular members of this group are overrated. 

Again, I would like to point out that I do like all these characters and see their merit. If you would like to change my mind civally, I wouldn't mind reading what you have to say.

She had a reason to explode on many chars not fully justified but a reason bar Ignatz.
on the Marianne topic.

Marianne was being extremely negative when there was a fire going on and Lysithea asked her for help, Marianne kept giving negative "i'm no use responses" and Lysithea got mad at her before leaving. Lysithea came to apologize only to have Marianne repeat the same similar things before taking off making Lysithea question why is she so negative. Lysithea came up to her asking about Animal facts for horses and Marianne gave the same response as the last 2 incidents and Lysithea exploded once again, but this time asked her to find the positivity in life in a rough way but it came across as positive/negative depending how it's taken. 

In a nutshell she had a reason for Marianne, but Ignatz is prob the only one she didn't have one for.

Tbh as a character she is middling rated against the cast, and usually gets highly talked about as a unit atleast in the west, i feel like chars like 
Sylvain, Felix, Marianne, Dorothea etc are ones that are rated on high pillars on characters, and seeing their flaws and occasional eh writing makes me think there's some other appeal.

Edited by End of time

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What is the “occasional eh” writing you’re referring to? I noticed you didn’t really elaborate on the “why” in your initial post.

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14 minutes ago, Crysta said:

What is the “occasional eh” writing you’re referring to? I noticed you didn’t really elaborate on the “why” in your initial post.

Sylvain clearly states he does not like women in a few of his supports, and when this is borderline brought up in his supports with Mercedes she thinks nothing of it but gets annoyed at Lorenz for something similar. It feels oddly inconsistent to me, not to mention how we never see people treat him like garbage but more so him treating women like garbage by his Byleth supports. Since his whole story revolves around him hating crest, we barely see why outside him talking about it,  but it's never shown and his problem with Miklan aka his brother seems to be the closest thing but not the main reason that we seen on screen of this besides his story of living his life being valued as an object, but it really seems that he returns the favor based on that same support. I can go on about what i mean about some of his writing is off and on in some areas. 

I find it odd that he is like this with some women, but hits on the main cast prob because they don't see him as a prize.

For Marianne it's more of some of her fanbase more so then her character, with how she is looked at from time to time in a really strange way occasionally from what i see in the community. 

Edited by End of time

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Sounds more like inconsistent Mercedes writing than Sylvain writing. We don’t see girls treating Sylvain like garbage because it seems mostly in his head and fueled by his own insecurities, and I’m kind of glad they don’t actually give him on-screen justification because of that. He’s a prick, even if he’s met one or two equally shallow girls.

And what of Marianne?
 

 

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26 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Sounds more like inconsistent Mercedes writing than Sylvain writing. We don’t see girls treating Sylvain like garbage because it seems mostly in his head and fueled by his own insecurities, and I’m kind of glad they don’t actually give him on-screen justification because of that. He’s a prick, even if he’s met one or two equally shallow girls.

And what of Marianne?
 

 

Not really it's not in his head it actually happened to him we just never seen it personally which is the problem, because we only see him being the asshole he claims the women treating him are, and  this makes alot of it fall flat.

For Marianne it's less her character again her fanbase, some of them i've seen on reddit etc find her depression attractive in a wrong way and it kinda just messed me up seeing some of that, similar to a few bernadetta fans finding high level of anxiety attractive and both just kind of turn me off, and i consistently see this from time to time. 

But for her character i've notice a running thing in her supports from C and alot of B's that she doesn't really acknowledge by fully understanding people trying to help her and it doesn't feel like much is changing until her A's and paralogue, but that's less of my issue then the section of her fanbase i unfortunately run into. That's why i put Character Wise in there since it's not all about development, but in that sense Sylvain barely changes as a person from start to finish which i find unsettling especially with his known behavior.

Edited by End of time

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It’s his interpretation of what happened to him. I don’t think he’s the most reliable narrator, and the one on-screen NPC he dumps didn’t seem to agree with that assessment. We don’t really get both sides of the story.

I will agree that the game really just has people pick up on how much of a cad he is but doesn’t really confront him for his immaturity, but that’s different from inconsistent writing. He’s not meant to be wholly likable, and not every character will get a full blown character arc.

As for Marianne, I thought her gradual evolution suited her. It’s kind of a collective effort by all her friends to get her where she is (via supports) and it’s clear she’s taking baby steps versus a switch going off. That was my perception, anyway.

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For me its Marianne but that's primarily because her general archetype has never appealed to me. Characters who always respond in the same way that they're useless regardless of any context tends to get on my nerves a lot. That belief influencing their actions can be interesting but those character's refusal to shut up about how useless they think they are also makes them extremely boring to watch. 

But speaking more objectively I don't know if anyone really classifies as being overatted. I mean, I might not like Marianne but she's a competent depiction of her archetype so people who like that should be really happy, with that in mind I'm not sure her popularity is as undeserved as the word overratted implies. I also can't really think of anyone that gets overwhelmingly praised. Certain characters are liked a lot but not to an undue extend. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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Every time I read Sylvain's supports (barring like 3) I like him less. I still like him, but I like him less.

I'm not a huge fan of Marianne or Bernadetta for quite similar reasons - they're annoying.

As much as I like Hilda, I never see anyone talk about her "subtle" racism so I have to throw her on here too.

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1 minute ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

As much as I like Hilda, I never see anyone talk about her "subtle" racism so I have to throw her on here too.

Probably because its not really a big point about her character. I believe it only comes up once and the people in question are the mortal enemies of her house, so a warped perspective on them makes sense. 

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5 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Every time I read Sylvain's supports (barring like 3) I like him less. I still like him, but I like him less.

I'm not a huge fan of Marianne or Bernadetta for quite similar reasons - they're annoying.

As much as I like Hilda, I never see anyone talk about her "subtle" racism so I have to throw her on here too.

It wasn't really subtle, but she herself is not racist.

In her supports with Cyril she pretty much lists the stereotypes she learned from her family about then, but never really met a Almyran before she saw Cyril who was not like what she was told about them, which is why she said "You're not like one of them." Cyril got kind of annoyed hearing her talk about this subject which sounded kind of offensive even if she didn't intend it to. Cyril replied by explaining that everyone is not one thing, which was enough to convince her to write to her brother about Cyril. Holst replied with a similar explanation like Cyril, and Hilda pretty much dropped it altogether never see her talk negative about them

Hilda has an option to marry Cyril in their ending.

She also eventually accepts Claude's offer to

Spoiler

go meet his parents in Almyra since she was always to curious about them

 

Edited by End of time

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11 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Black Eagles: Bernadetta. I really like Bernie, but I don't think her backstory justifies how annoying she can be. Peri also had a sad backstory and that doesn't really make her a better character. However, I will say Bernie is most enjoyable on the Crimson Flower path. Her character comes full circle and is genuinely enjoyable to interact with.

Peri's backstory isn't the problem. It's that she doesn't grow all that much. Laslow is the only character that actually gets some growth out of her.

In a way, Bernie has a better situation because the people around her don't condone her behavior and many try to help her get out of it which leads to good results. However, many of Fates characters continue to allow Peri to do whatever she wants, Xander perhaps being the biggest enabler of her bad behavior.

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That goes to Dimitri.  One doesn't go from tortured to normal in an instant.

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12 hours ago, End of time said:

She had a reason to explode on many chars not fully justified but a reason bar Ignatz.
on the Marianne topic.

Marianne was being extremely negative when there was a fire going on and Lysithea asked her for help, Marianne kept giving negative "i'm no use responses" and Lysithea got mad at her before leaving. Lysithea came to apologize only to have Marianne repeat the same similar things before taking off making Lysithea question why is she so negative. Lysithea came up to her asking about Animal facts for horses and Marianne gave the same response as the last 2 incidents and Lysithea exploded once again, but this time asked her to find the positivity in life in a rough way but it came across as positive/negative depending how it's taken. 

In a nutshell she had a reason for Marianne, but Ignatz is prob the only one she didn't have one for.

Tbh as a character she is middling rated against the cast, and usually gets highly talked about as a unit atleast in the west, i feel like chars like 
Sylvain, Felix, Marianne, Dorothea etc are ones that are rated on high pillars on characters, and seeing their flaws and occasional eh writing makes me think there's some other appeal.

Reading your explanation of the Marianne x Lysithea has made me rethink the support. Marianne comes off as worse than Lysithea there. So Marianne is my pick for the most overrated GD character, development-wise. I do admit there's an evolution of her character which is nice, but her fanbase creeps me out with how they talk about her. Of course, I'm only referring to a select few of Marianne's fanbase and not it as a whole. It just feels like they're fetishizing suicidal/broken women. I'm not sure why "fixing" your lover is such a popular romance trope. I feel a lot of people that like that trope have never dated/been friends with someone who is, and how hard it is to maintain a relationship with that person without encouraging them to see a therapist.

3 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

Peri's backstory isn't the problem. It's that she doesn't grow all that much. Laslow is the only character that actually gets some growth out of her.

In a way, Bernie has a better situation because the people around her don't condone her behavior and many try to help her get out of it which leads to good results. However, many of Fates characters continue to allow Peri to do whatever she wants, Xander perhaps being the biggest enabler of her bad behavior.

I completely agree that Bernie has a lot better writing than Peri. Absolutely. There's actual development of her character, especially in Crimson Flower. Outside of CF, it does feel like her growth is stifled and makes her a weaker character.

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6 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Reading your explanation of the Marianne x Lysithea has made me rethink the support. Marianne comes off as worse than Lysithea there. So Marianne is my pick for the most overrated GD character, development-wise. I do admit there's an evolution of her character which is nice, but her fanbase creeps me out with how they talk about her. Of course, I'm only referring to a select few of Marianne's fanbase and not it as a whole. It just feels like they're fetishizing suicidal/broken women. I'm not sure why "fixing" your lover is such a popular romance trope.

Because. . .it's more than a trope.  It applies to both sexes, and it usually ends badly anyway.

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11 hours ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Gatekeeper

Came here to say this. The Gatekeeper love and memes are just so strange, I don't get it at all.

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2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Because. . .it's more than a trope.  It applies to both sexes, and it usually ends badly anyway.

Sadly it does. You reminded me of the women who would write love letters to serial killers in prison.

If anyone here is confused about their feelings for someone (this is not directed at Eclipse), it is not your job to "fix" someone. Unless you're a therapist who's supposed to help someone out with their mental issues, don't put that burden on yourself. Make sure they seek professional help and ask the professional on what you can do support them appropriately.

Now back to the topic at hand, I really love that there's no overrated Church characters. Seteth, Rhea, and Shamir are the most popular ones, and they deserve it. They were fleshed out well in my opinion.

2 hours ago, Eurydice said:

Came here to say this. The Gatekeeper love and memes are just so strange, I don't get it at all.

I don't think he's the first NPC to have a large following. See 3-13 Archer from Radiant Dawn.

I know other game series have a generic character that people just seem to love for some reason.

It helps that the Gatekeeper has a catchphrase and popular VA behind them.

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Edelgard, but that's a powder keg of a conversation I don't feel like touching today. 

Sylvain for.most of the reasons losted above. But I actually like that the game tried to address the misogynistic attitudes of the flirt type characters and made Sylvain very obviously display one of the darl sides of it. My problem is that the game doesn't give him a proper realisation on it and simply acts like he suddenly got his shit together one day because he found a girl to settle down with, so it's all fine. There's only really one line in his Byleth support that hints at him maybe forming some kind of understanding, and his suppports with Mercedes get off to a good start but then completely miss the landing when it all turns back around to him and his pain instead of the pain he causes. Compare this to Lorenz, who has aj extensive character arc with all of his supports about realizing what a tool he was and the game never feels the urge to coddle him or treat him like he's got it worse than everyone else, despite those girls he flirts with likely having just as bad of a time with crests as he has. (or living the lifes of commoners, where nobles playing around with them is just another reminder of where they rank in society)

Also just saying, even if one if those girls had been a materialistic shrew, Sylvain approaching and actively egging her on with the sole intent of humiliating her does not make me feel a shred of sympathy for him. 

At the end of the day, I still want to like Sylvain, and there are things I enjoy about him (his interactions with his friends for example, outside of flirting with Ingrid, of course, amd his occasional shows of scary amounts of competence), I just wish the game had properly finished the arc it set up for him, like with Lorenz.

Anyway, another one I don't like would be Bernadetta. On the surface, people would assume I'd completely love her as a character, for also having issues with anxiety. However, I heavily dislike how these are treated as a source for jokes 95% of the time. Bernadetta is treated like a joke character and you can almost hear the game shouting "Look at how whacky she is, isn't it just totally adorbs!!?" 

Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy comedy at my expense. I really love the manga/anime Watamote for instance, but the difference is that the author was poking fun at their own similar behaviour, a cringe comedy for laughing at and understanding your own ridiculousness. 

Bernadetta feels like a walking punchline from people with little understanding of the topic. And then we are meant to really sympathize when she makes moe eyes and explains her backstory to you, which is hard, when all the game did before was point a finger at her and tell us to laugh. Honestly this frustrates me a lot and my opinion of the character is very low as a result.

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10 hours ago, Nanima said:

Anyway, another one I don't like would be Bernadetta. On the surface, people would assume I'd completely love her as a character, for also having issues with anxiety. However, I heavily dislike how these are treated as a source for jokes 95% of the time. Bernadetta is treated like a joke character and you can almost hear the game shouting "Look at how whacky she is, isn't it just totally adorbs!!?" 

Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy comedy at my expense. I really love the manga/anime Watamote for instance, but the difference is that the author was poking fun at their own similar behaviour, a cringe comedy for laughing at and understanding your own ridiculousness. 

Bernadetta feels like a walking punchline from people with little understanding of the topic. And then we are meant to really sympathize when she makes moe eyes and explains her backstory to you, which is hard, when all the game did before was point a finger at her and tell us to laugh. Honestly this frustrates me a lot and my opinion of the character is very low as a result.

Clever points, mate. I also dislike her, but I did not really care to learn more about her and her interactions with other characters and the player. You showed me another view.

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Blue Lions: Sylvain. I'm gonna be harsh here, I cannot stand this guy, and for very personal reasons, which is why I'd like not to explain why exactly I dislike him. I've never been particularly fond of characters like him to begin with, but he is the one I personally find hard to tolerate. I don't think he's charming, neither do I think he's funny. I agree that there is depth to his character, but I do not see how it excuses him or gives him a free pass to do what he does. Frankly, I believe he is only so popular because he is objectively handsome. As stated above, we never see women treat him poorly. He victimizes himself and generalizes all women. Assuming that some of the girls simply had an innocent crush on him, he clearly caused them some serious emotional trauma just because he can't stop feeling sorry for himself in that regard. Sylvain is a jerk, and he acknowledges that, he is traumatizing girls on purpose just because of the assumptions he jumps to, as I doubt he ever cared enough to get to know any of the girls he briefly dated.

Black Eagles: Bernadetta. By no means do I want to discredit her trauma, but it's often presented in a zany manner, and it fails to be funny because Bernadetta fails as comic relief. If you look at her from that perspective, she is very annoying, and whenever I try to feel bad for her, I get irritated. I don't hate her, but I think that her behavior is nowhere near as cute as the game wants us to believe.

Golden Deer: unpopular opinion, but I'll go with Hilda here. I actually love Hilda as a character. She's bubbly, she's funny, she's lazy, she's interesting. I honestly cannot quite explain why I like her so much, I just do. Hilda's charisma, I guess. She's good, but she's not the very best, and I think there are better characters out there that deserve at least an ounce of Hilda's popularity. 

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Blue Lions: Sylvain can fall into it. And reading some reasons for Dimitri he might also be one who is slightly overrated. Personally if I compare Dimitri to Claude I find Claude as a character better. But it seems Dimitri is slightly more popular. But only seems that way. But overall I find Blue Lion characters not as overhyped as certain characters from other houses. And popular will always lead to feeling that someone might be overhyped. That is why I try to go for comparing with characters I believe are underhyped (Even if its my bias). Regarding Sylvain I find Ferdinand a much better character. 

Golden Deer: Lysithea, she is not a character I can get much into. Unit wise I also liked to use her. But I find it a shame. Characters like Annette who are also belong to more petite characters have some really nice supports and moments. Compared to that I find Lysithea overhyped. 

Black Eagles: Bernadetta, I actually thought that Dorothea might be the most popular in BE. But I was wrong and underestimated how such a character has an impact. Ironically in regard as a unit I find her underrated, but as a character overrated. Even if her support with Felix was funny. But Felix has a lot going on there. (Felix can also fall into the overhyped category, but my bias says he kind of deserves it) xD. 

I thought Flayn is a bit overhyped. But she is not as overhyped as certain others, she just has a meme factor. But it feels like she has no character development overall. But I did not pay much attention.

So overall I can only repeat the characters which already have been mentioned. 

Edited by Stroud

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Blue Lions: I left Sylvain behind and don't regret it one bit. I attempted to understand him and understand his sorrows, but just couldn't seem manage at all. Dimitri, yes Dimitri has PTSD and has trauma, but that doesn't excuse what he does and what he tries to do. Also his fans .......baby him, alot. Dimitri knows what he's done, he even admits it more than once. Love Dimitri all you desire, but the babying, ick.

Golden Deers : Lorenz. Just like Sylvain, there was a strong attempt to like this character, but it failed miserably. I don't think he's overhyped though ?

Black Eagles : Edelgard and Hubert. Hubert just creeps me the heck out and Edelgard being a massive hypocrite grinds my gears lol. Also the Edel babying, ick. Just like Dimitri, Edel sort of ? Knows what she's doing. Anyways, she knows that she has to draw blood to 'cut out her path' for her ambitions to become a reality. Again, I don't think Hubert is overhyped, this is just a guess.

 

Edited by Eurydice

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I agree that Sylvain can be a pretty bad person, and the way he treats women isn't excused by his past actions. That's why I like him. It's refreshing to have a playable character who is a decent person at heart, have their negative features being portrayed so strongly. I do think he's overrated in the sense that lots of people try to justify him when he isn't justifiable. He's smart, cynical, and knows what he's doing and why it's wrong to do so. But he does it anyway because he feels he needs to hurt them before they hurt him. And I find that fascinating, that one of your units can be that morally flawed while still being mostly a good person to others. He's more realistic than other fe characters because he's not perfect and real people aren't perfect.

For my own overrated character, most have been said already so I'll nominate Petra. I think she's incredibly boring and she's way too perfect. Her only negative trait is not speaking the language well (which gets annoying quick) and nothing else. She's smart, kind, hardworking, capable, determined, curious, forgiving and mature while still being 15 and everyone loves to praise her for being so amazing. The only supports I like of hers are Hubert's, Caspar's and Ashe's because its funny. The others I have to end up skipping when I unlock them because I can't stay invested. 

 

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