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FEH Revenue Drop!!!


XRay
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29 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

That's very true too. The best they've done for Feh character-wise is Forging Bonds or the duo units that have their little conversation(though then that sacrifices all their normal tap lines.. so they really just cut stuff to even make those). That's basically nothing compared to what FGO and plenty of other gacha games do with their characters. If you don't already like a character from playing the main FE games, Feh itself does little to make you care about them beyond their gameplay use or if you like how they look and what very limited tap lines they have.(that works sometimes, like Reinhardt becoming "popular", but it's not the same as what actual character interaction/story could do on top of that)

The attention to story and characters definitely helps keep FGO doing well and keeping people invested in the game, though it still pairs with the abysmal gacha rates to milk people trying to then get those characters too. IS has been trying harder to milk people to keep up with legendaries/mythics/BST creep/skill creep/etc., yet not done much to improve in other aspects. They mostly just focus on the gameplay value of things. Maybe they overestimate people already knowing all the characters from the main games so they think they don't have to do more?

Not only do they put effort in the characters, but in events too. A lot of events have unique mechanics, for example Year 1 Summer event in FGO had you grind for materials to create buildings and you could create different buildings depending on the materials you gathered and you get different scenes depending on the building, but in Summer 2 the event was a race and it worked like voting gauntlets in FEH where you had to win battles to make your characters win. Sure, both events had you grind battles, but the different objectives gabe them unique flavor, plus the event had lengthy stories to go with them. 
 

Compare it to FEH, where summer events there are just some characters in swimsuits, a paralogue with 3 battles and barely any story. 

Edited by Water Mage
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9 hours ago, Water Mage said:

Not only do they put effort in the characters, but in events too. A lot of events have unique mechanics, for example Year 1 Summer event in FGO had you grind for materials to create buildings and you could create different buildings depending on the materials you gathered and you get different scenes depending on the building, but in Summer 2 the event was a race and it worked like voting gauntlets in FEH where you had to win battles to make your characters win. Sure, both events had you grind battles, but the different objectives gabe them unique flavor, plus the event had lengthy stories to go with them. 
 

Compare it to FEH, where summer events there are just some characters in swimsuits, a paralogue with 3 battles and barely any story. 

you have to keep in mind that fate grand order has years with 900 to over 1 billion $ of revenue per year

that's surpassing feh lifetime sales by quite a bit in 1 year. so they are probably investing way more in the overall app than feh heroes considering that the earnings are way higher than fe heroes life time earnings in just 1 year. they want their biggest whale players to be satisfied with their purchase after all.

Also the extra content and story lines is exactly what keep people more invested in their waifu's and husbando so if anything grand fate order absolutely abusing the pockets of their biggest whales. also the non powercreep to keep stuff relevant. abysmal rates of getting them is the key thing why the power creep is non existent otherwise people would feel ripped off. and while this is good for a free to play player them whales still want specific characters and collect em all so thanks to the terrible rates while normal players play with vanilla stuff overall.

If your going the fate grand order route your biggest whales will spend way more. if that's a good thing that's up for debate but someone is going to spend when you go that route. at the end of the day it's quite a pricy experience compared to the past.

while those whales played 60$ and enjoyed say a game like FF VII for their story line nowadays they might spend 5K to get 2 waifu's in grand fate order and spend 30K yearly on the game. no matter how you look at it. it's quite hard to justify such prices for a ton of people. also keep in mind that mobile games usually have way lower developement costs than some of the best games ever made and lesser gameplay.

Mobile games are usually quite a bit more fan service wich the normal game rarely provides so that's the thing that might have some people spending way more. so waifu's and husbando's preferably with allot of fanservice especially with allot of lore to keep people invested into them are the main selling points for a mobile gacha.

also per download the games rakes in about 300$ per person playing it on average or 500 if where going japan only. wouldt say it's the better route but the characters and the written stories about them must be pretty damm good to keep them whales invested in them so much. Naturally sony will abuse that and write some quality stuff to keep them spendings up. I highly doubt it's going to be all that pricy all things considered eitherway it's save to say that it is probably costing way less than a bigger triple AAA game on ps4 yet earning way more and having a low risk but very high reward pay off. If all mobile games could be like grand fate order it's pretty hard to justify making console games with them higher development costs and lesser earnings from a business standpoint that is

Than again in the consumer department a lesser experience for a price tag that is way higher than 60$ than again it's a different experience for people who want some canon fan service of their series comparable to say merchandice collectors of series?

 

https://www.pocketgamer.biz/asia/news/72490/sonys-fategrand-order-accumulates-over-4-billion-in-revenue/

 

that being said for a ton of especially smaller gacha games they say that the few$ of whales are 90% of their earnings. i would not be to suprised if that where also the case for games such as fate grand order but kinda hard to tell really. the smaller spenders in a ton of gacha games are pretty minor for a gacha game dev in comparison. majority of their income is from the small group of whales.

Edited by SwordsDude
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  • 2 weeks later...

Good news is I found Nintendo's annual reports. Bad news is that they are still pretty vague and obscure and I cannot really tell how much they spend on their mobile operations. I cannot even tell how much revenue their mobile operations made (it is being lumped in with royalty income, so things like merchandise, licenses, and stuff like that). I did a quick Google search for "Nintendo Annual Report 20##" and these reports popped up, so I guess I just did not type in the right search terms and looked hard enough in the past. For anyone interested, here are the reports:
March 2016 - March 2017
March 2017 - March 2018
March 2018 - March 2019
And here is a list of financial documents. Nintendo's annual reports are about 60-70 pages, in contrast with Ford's 200 page reports. There is a pretty big difference in detail. It feels like Nintendo is doing the bare minimum to satisfy transparency laws.

Some interesting factoids to note in regards to Heroes:

In the 2017-2018 report, that year's net sales increased by 115% over the previous year, about $5.345 billion USD. Heroes generated about $500 million USD in its first year, so Heroes was pretty much responsible for about a tenth of the total revenue increase, or about 5% of Nintendo's total revenue. That is pretty insane for 1 game.

As of March 2019, Nintendo holds about $228 million USD worth of shares of DeNA, who worked on Heroes. The next biggest is Bandai, which Nintendo owns about $181 million (I am not sure if Bandai worked on anything Fire Emblem related). Nintendo also owns about $6 million in Kadokawa, $3 million in Square Enix, and $2 million in Konami. Nintendo owns about $360,000 of Koei, who worked on Warriors. The number of shares remained constant for the first 5 companies between 2018 and 2019, but Nintendo increased its position on Koei a little, so hopefully that might be a signal that they might do some more cooperation in the future.

Nintendo says one of its risks is that it might not sell a lot of products due to shifting consumer tastes despite it takes substantial amount of money and time to develop games for games for its consoles and applications for smart devices. Is it really safe to assume Heroes is cheap to develop? That is pretty huge red flag right there. Tagging @Hilda since we talked about development costs in the other thread. Quote from the last 4 annual reports from 2016 to 2019:

Spoiler

 

Development of new products

Although Nintendo continuously makes efforts to develop unique and attractive products in the field of computer entertainment, the development process is complicated and includes many uncertainties. The various risks involved are as follows:

a. Despite the substantial costs and time needed for development of software for dedicated video game platforms and applications for smart-device gaming services, there is no guarantee that all new products and services will be accepted by consumers due to ever shifting consumer preferences. Also, development of certain products may be suspended or aborted.

b. While development of hardware is time-consuming, with technology continuously advancing, the Company may not be able to equip technologies required for entertainment. Furthermore, delays of hardware launches could adversely affect market share.

c. Due to the nature of Nintendo products and services, it may become difficult to develop, sell or launch the products and services as planned and the original plan could differ to a large extent.

 

 

Edited by XRay
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40 minutes ago, XRay said:

Nintendo owns about $3 million of Square Enix, who worked on TMS.

Incorrect.TMS is by Atlus, which owned by Sega.

 

42 minutes ago, XRay said:

a. Despite the substantial costs and time needed for development of software for dedicated video game platforms and applications for smart-device gaming services, there is no guarantee that all new products and services will be accepted by consumers due to ever shifting consumer preferences. Also, development of certain products may be suspended or aborted.

Reads to me like a generic statement of caution, not outright and sincere worry. Better to temper expectations than to state "The mobile gaming is market is a bottomless goldmine, and we'll making some big Nintendoooooooooooough!".

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28 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Incorrect.TMS is by Atlus, which owned by Sega.

Woops! I will correct that. I do not see any Sega stocks mentioned being owned by Nintendo. But Square did work on the Persona Series, and I think Bandai published some SMT games, although I think it is probably safe to say they did not touch TMS.

28 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Reads to me like a generic statement of caution, not outright and sincere worry. Better to temper expectations than to state "The mobile gaming is market is a bottomless goldmine, and we'll making some big Nintendoooooooooooough!".

I guess I am just a worrywort, but I think it is better to dispel the assumption that all mobile games are dirt cheap to make, cause they absolutely did not say mobile applications were cheap to make.

Edited by XRay
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54 minutes ago, XRay said:

I guess I am just a worrywort, but I think it is better to dispel the assumption that all mobile games are dirt cheap to make, cause they absolutely did not say mobile applications were cheap to make.

Tbf, would anyone admit that the product they're selling is cheap to make? Seems unwise to go "this is dirt cheap to push out and we can charge lots of money for it"

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26 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Tbf, would anyone admit that the product they're selling is cheap to make? Seems unwise to go "this is dirt cheap to push out and we can charge lots of money for it"

Towards your stockholders, absolutely yes. You want to assure them that your profit margins are high.

But more importantly, they also should not lie on their annual report. Not sure about in Japan, but in the United States, lying to the public and the SEC (Security Exchange Commission; they make public corporations file periodic financial reports) can get you a huge fine even if those lies are not in your annual report. The SEC and the courts had to get involved with Tesla because Musk was making certain statements on Twitter.

While Nintendo might legally be able leave out the information that mobile applications are not cheap to make since it is not their core business, if they state that mobile applications are not cheap to make though, then that statement has to be true or else they can get in trouble with the law.

Edited by XRay
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Of course it's going to drop after the first year and it will again next year. Regardless, 150 millions of revenues for a mobile game sounds like a boatload to me still. There is no way the game costs anywhere this much so it is still probably very profitable and has enough wiggle room to last another couple of years. 

I can't see it as a game that's "not exactly looking pretty financially right now".

 

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8 hours ago, XRay said:

Good news is I found Nintendo's annual reports. Bad news is that they are still pretty vague and obscure and I cannot really tell how much they spend on their mobile operations. I cannot even tell how much revenue their mobile operations made (it is being lumped in with royalty income, so things like merchandise, licenses, and stuff like that). I did a quick Google search for "Nintendo Annual Report 20##" and these reports popped up, so I guess I just did not type in the right search terms and looked hard enough in the past. For anyone interested, here are the reports:
March 2016 - March 2017
March 2017 - March 2018
March 2018 - March 2019
And here is a list of financial documents. Nintendo's annual reports are about 60-70 pages, in contrast with Ford's 200 page reports. There is a pretty big difference in detail. It feels like Nintendo is doing the bare minimum to satisfy transparency laws.

Some interesting factoids to note in regards to Heroes:

In the 2017-2018 report, that year's net sales increased by 115% over the previous year, about $5.345 billion USD. Heroes generated about $500 million USD in its first year, so Heroes was pretty much responsible for about a tenth of the total revenue increase, or about 5% of Nintendo's total revenue. That is pretty insane for 1 game.

As of March 2019, Nintendo holds about $228 million USD worth of shares of DeNA, who worked on Heroes. The next biggest is Bandai, which Nintendo owns about $181 million (I am not sure if Bandai worked on anything Fire Emblem related). Nintendo also owns about $6 million in Kadokawa, $3 million in Square Enix, and $2 million in Konami. Nintendo owns about $360,000 of Koei, who worked on Warriors. The number of shares remained constant for the first 5 companies between 2018 and 2019, but Nintendo increased its position on Koei a little, so hopefully that might be a signal that they might do some more cooperation in the future.

Nintendo says one of its risks is that it might not sell a lot of products due to shifting consumer tastes despite it takes substantial amount of money and time to develop games for games for its consoles and applications for smart devices. Is it really safe to assume Heroes is cheap to develop? That is pretty huge red flag right there. Tagging @Hilda since we talked about development costs in the other thread. Quote from the last 4 annual reports from 2016 to 2019:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Development of new products

Although Nintendo continuously makes efforts to develop unique and attractive products in the field of computer entertainment, the development process is complicated and includes many uncertainties. The various risks involved are as follows:

a. Despite the substantial costs and time needed for development of software for dedicated video game platforms and applications for smart-device gaming services, there is no guarantee that all new products and services will be accepted by consumers due to ever shifting consumer preferences. Also, development of certain products may be suspended or aborted.

b. While development of hardware is time-consuming, with technology continuously advancing, the Company may not be able to equip technologies required for entertainment. Furthermore, delays of hardware launches could adversely affect market share.

c. Due to the nature of Nintendo products and services, it may become difficult to develop, sell or launch the products and services as planned and the original plan could differ to a large extent.

 

 

The basic development wont be free. But once the game HAS BEEN developed it is muuch cheaper to just add to it.

13 daily maps for anniversary? 

Bhb rerun quests?

Also, a new skin, a new art, a couple of new voicelines for resplendent heroes, that won't be millions.

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30 minutes ago, Endriu said:

The basic development wont be free. But once the game HAS BEEN developed it is muuch cheaper to just add to it.

13 daily maps for anniversary? 

Bhb rerun quests?

Also, a new skin, a new art, a couple of new voicelines for resplendent heroes, that won't be millions.

It must be nice to pretend like 90% of the game's content somehow doesn't exist. New game modes every few months? 10-16 new characters each month?

Nope, clearly don't exist. Must be imagining it. The only things they ever make are anniversary event maps.

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26 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It must be nice to pretend like 90% of the game's content somehow doesn't exist. New game modes every few months? 10-16 new characters each month?

Nope, clearly don't exist. Must be imagining it. The only things they ever make are anniversary event maps.

Were just examples of current month stuff. Never pretended the game didn't exist last month. Maybe you are imagining again.

You really wanna imply developing new modes and units is expensive?  

How much do a couple of voicelines cost? Like literally a couple!

Game modes? Ok, so we got Hall of Forms. How much did development take? A year? Two? This is just a rehashed stratum tower.

 

 

Edited by Endriu
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6 minutes ago, Endriu said:

You really wanna imply developing new modes and units is expensive?  

It costs somewhere around $4,000-8,000 to pay a single developer for a month, and game modes likely require somewhere between 1-5 developers depending on complexity, probably spanning 3-6 months for design, development, and testing.

Then there's also the testing team to keep paid.

 

9 minutes ago, Endriu said:

How much do a couple of voicelines cost? Like literally a couple!

According to a Google search, it costs $100-200 per hour to hire a voice actor for a 1- to 2-hour recording session for an indie game.

However, since we're talking top-name voice actors in both English and Japanese, it's probably significantly higher, perhaps by a full order of magnitude or more (especially on the Japanese side).

 

18 minutes ago, Endriu said:

Game modes? Ok, so we got Hall of Forms. How much did development take? A year? Two? This is just a rehashed stratum tower.

Uh huh. Last time I checked, the Training Tower doesn't have a unit rental system. Or a system to offer you random skills to learn.

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2 hours ago, Vince777 said:

Of course it's going to drop after the first year and it will again next year. Regardless, 150 millions of revenues for a mobile game sounds like a boatload to me still. There is no way the game costs anywhere this much so it is still probably very profitable and has enough wiggle room to last another couple of years. 

I can't see it as a game that's "not exactly looking pretty financially right now".

If we just look within Nintendo's IP, Pokémon Go had its highest revenue year in 2019. Go had a large dip too, but it managed to reverse the downward trend on its third year and had a record breaking fourth year.

$150 million is still a lot, but the downward trend is not pretty no matter how you look at it. From an investors' view, if Pokémon Go can manage a come back and FGO can maintain their high revenue despite being out for so long now, then Nintendo clearly is not learning fast enough. If Niantic can do so well with Nintendo's IP, why is Nintendo doing so badly with their own IP? Heroes is Nintendo's best mobile game that they manage, and every other mobile game developed and managed by Nintendo is a "learning experience" at best and a complete embarrassment at worst, with Mario Run probably being the worst offender. And that is assuming all their mobile games are making a decent profit margin.

1 hour ago, Endriu said:

The basic development wont be free. But once the game HAS BEEN developed it is muuch cheaper to just add to it.

13 daily maps for anniversary? 

Bhb rerun quests?

Also, a new skin, a new art, a couple of new voicelines for resplendent heroes, that won't be millions.

I hope it is easy and cheap to just maintain, but Heroes is still undergoing constant development with new features and modes. Arena has went through several distinct iterations, and with how similar Arena Assault is to Arena, they could have kept every distinct Arena iteration as a new mode. Voting Gauntlet has been changed 3 times, and each time feels pretty different from the last time. Aether Raids was a pretty massive undertaking too.

Each time they release a new condition or effect for skills, they also have to test it for interactions with previous effects and skills. For example, Blade Session and Shield Session have a pretty new condition that keeps track of units that already moved, so there were probably a lot of testing done to make sure it works correctly.

34 minutes ago, Endriu said:

How much do a couple of voicelines cost? Like literally a couple!

At the scale that they are producing, the cost is pretty high per line. For example, no one is going to redo their work schedule just to come in to a record a few lines for $30 an hour for only 2 hours, when they have long term projects going on that may pay less at $20 per hour, but they will be working far more hours.

34 minutes ago, Endriu said:

Game modes? Ok, so we got Hall of Forms. How much did development take? A year? Two? This is just a rehashed stratum tower.

It is also a mode with a completely separate Barracks system and skill inheritance system that they have to port over and rework. While I am not a software engineer, I am a bookkeeper and I had to transfer data from one system to another from time to time, and you cannot just say that I copypasta'ed the data and that is it. You still have to go through things to make sure they are working properly. For example, if I need to link a business's bank account to QuickBooks (an accounting software) to obtain financial transaction information, while the data is simply just copypasta'ed from the bank to your computer, often times I still have to go into QuickBooks and adjust, correct, and/or add additional data because it simply is not enough just transfer the numbers from one system to another.

And that is just between two electronic systems.

If you have to transfer from a paper system to an electronic system, the data entry often feels like it takes forever. It is quite frankly soul crushing sometimes depending on the volume.

Edited by XRay
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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

It costs somewhere around $4,000-8,000 to pay a single developer for a month, and game modes likely require somewhere between 1-5 developers depending on complexity, probably spanning 3-6 months for design, development, and testing.

Then there's also the testing team to keep paid.

 

According to a Google search, it costs $100-200 per hour to hire a voice actor for a 1- to 2-hour recording session for an indie game.

However, since we're talking top-name voice actors in both English and Japanese, it's probably significantly higher, perhaps by a full order of magnitude or more (especially on the Japanese side).

 

Uh huh. Last time I checked, the Training Tower doesn't have a unit rental system. Or a system to offer you random skills to learn.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

If we just look within Nintendo's IP, Pokémon Go had its highest revenue year in 2019. Go had a large dip too, but it managed to reverse the downward trend on its third year and had a record breaking fourth year.

$150 million is still a lot, but the downward trend is not pretty no matter how you look at it. From an investors' view, if Pokémon Go can manage a come back and FGO can maintain their high revenue despite being out for so long now, then Nintendo clearly is not learning fast enough. If Niantic can do so well with Nintendo's IP, why is Nintendo doing so badly with their own IP? Heroes is Nintendo's best mobile game that they manage, and every other mobile game developed and managed by Nintendo is a "learning experience" at best and a complete embarrassment at worst, with Mario Run probably being the worst offender. And that is assuming all their mobile games are making a decent profit margin.

I hope it is easy and cheap to just maintain, but Heroes is still undergoing constant development with new features and modes. Arena has went through several distinct iterations, and with how similar Arena Assault is to Arena, they could have kept every distinct Arena iteration as a new mode. Voting Gauntlet has been changed 3 times, and each time feels pretty different from the last time. Aether Raids was a pretty massive undertaking too.

Each time they release a new condition or effect for skills, they also have to test it for interactions with previous effects and skills. For example, Blade Session and Shield Session have a pretty new condition that keeps track of units that already moved, so there were probably a lot of testing done to make sure it works correctly.

At the scale that they are producing, the cost is pretty high per line. For example, no one is going to redo their work schedule just to come in to a record a few lines for $30 an hour for only 2 hours, when they have long term projects going on that may pay less at $20 per hour, but they will be working far more hours.

It is also a mode with a completely separate Barracks system and skill inheritance system that they have to port over and rework. While I am not a software engineer, I am a bookkeeper and I had to transfer data from one system to another from time to time, and you cannot just say that I copypasta'ed the data and that is it. You still have to go through things to make sure they are working properly. For example, if I need to link a business's bank account to QuickBooks (an accounting software) to obtain financial transaction information, while the data is simply just copypasta'ed from the bank to your computer, often times I still have to go into QuickBooks and adjust, correct, and/or add additional data because it simply is not enough just transfer the numbers from one system to another.

And that is just between two electronic systems.

If you have to transfer from a paper system to an electronic system, the data entry often feels like it takes forever. It is quite frankly soul crushing sometimes depending on the volume.

 

Based on what you wrote we can say that $1million per month will be enough. Although I would say it's probably much less. With $165 million of current revenue, the profit wipl be quite huge.

Unit rental system and random skills, wow!  Took them 3-6months to develope? 

You making it sound like they are really doing quite the work.

Are we still talking about a 6x8 grid game featuring 2d sprites and a very limited number of stats and skills? With absolutely no randomness gameplaywise?

I think there is already more complicated games on mobile out there.

In regard to game modes: they are pretty basic btw. You don't even have a guild system to maintain. You don't have live pvp, you don't have pvp coop. I am not saying this game needs it but if you don't have these modes at all, then you don't to pay to maintain them. 

Cheap investment huge income.

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21 minutes ago, Endriu said:

Based on what you wrote we can say that $1million per month will be enough. Although I would say it's probably much less. With $165 million of current revenue, the profit wipl be quite huge.

That's cute.

That's literally just barebones technical personnel and voice work. No artwork. No other personnel. No facilities. No utilities. No hardware maintenance.

 

23 minutes ago, Endriu said:

Unit rental system and random skills, wow!  Took them 3-6months to develope? 

Thanks for telling me that you have no idea what you're talking about and are pulling shit out of your ass. What else is new?

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8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's cute.

That's literally just barebones technical personnel and voice work. No artwork. No other personnel. No facilities. No utilities. No hardware maintenance.

 

Thanks for telling me that you have no idea what you're talking about and are pulling shit out of your ass. What else is new?

Barebones technical personel. Lmao.

You said yourself a programmer is somewhere between $4k-$8k. How many are working on feh? 1000? Lol

I just used your estimates which you have pulled out out of your ass first.

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6 minutes ago, Endriu said:

I just used your estimates which you have pulled out out of your ass first.

As a software developer, I believe I am far more qualified than you to give accurate estimates about how much money hiring a software developer costs, how many people are needed to work on a project, and how long a project can be expected to take.

 

6 minutes ago, Endriu said:

You said yourself a programmer is somewhere between $4k-$8k. How many are working on feh? 1000? Lol

Because all you need to make a video game of this size are programmers. No building. No electricity. No computers. No servers. No testers. No design steering. No managers. No graphic designers. No customer support. No public relations. No legal team.

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39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

As a software developer, I believe I am far more qualified than you to give accurate estimates about how much money hiring a software developer costs, how many people are needed to work on a project, and how long a project can be expected to take.

 

Because all you need to make a video game of this size are programmers. No building. No electricity. No computers. No servers. No testers. No design steering. No managers. No graphic designers. No customer support. No public relations. No legal team.

Indeed. So you provide estimates and ridicule other people who use those estimates. 

Video game this size? Are you talking about three houses or feh? This size, lmao.

Gta V was developed for 4 years. According to wiki it cost $137million. Approximately 1000 people worked on it. Just to put things into perspective.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Endriu said:

Indeed. So you provide estimates and ridicule other people who use those estimates. 

I'm ridiculing you for the fact that you are saying the only thing that costs money when developing a game is paying your voice actors and developers because those are the only estimates I felt comfortable giving you so you pretend nothing else exists.

 

3 minutes ago, Endriu said:

Video game this size? Are you talking about three houses or feh? This size, lmao.

Yes, this size. As in, "not a two-person indie game that doesn't need half of those things."

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As somebody who works at Human Resources for a big company, specifically in Remuneration, I can assure you this. The cost of making something is always a lot, A LOT higher than one may think.

People think this is a joke when I tell them, but sometimes something as trivial as making the devs stay at work a couple of extra hours can significantly up the cost of making anything. 

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm ridiculing you for the fact that you are saying the only thing that costs money when developing a game is paying your voice actors and developers because those are the only estimates I felt comfortable giving you so you pretend nothing else exists.

 

Yes, this size. As in, "not a two-person indie game that doesn't need half of those things."

I never said that. You read that into it.

And disregarded most of of what I actually said.

Forget it. Doesn't matter really.

Happy Valentines day!

 

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3 hours ago, Endriu said:

Video game this size? Are you talking about three houses or feh? This size, lmao.

Heroes has a credits section.

If we strip away all the voice actors/actress, character illustrators, people who made the movies, and special thanks, there are at least 150 people in the Japanese office alone (I counted around 170ish). North American localization team has about 40 people, and that is stripping away the voice actors. The European localization team has over two dozen people. That is a total of at least 230 people; if we include the people who made the movies, about 47 people, that totals to around 280. In the Japanese office, about 40 of those are server engineers, 7 programers, over a dozen designers, 12 promoters, and over dozen QA people, and I am pretty sure most of them have to stay employed continuously too. That is at least 50 people working on the game past initial development for over three years even if we assume a third of them got fired and downsized.

For GTA V, if we strip away special thanks and voice actors, there are 1840 staff who developed the game (I counted using Google sheets; I did not want to poke my computer screen for hours). The GTA V team is about 6.5 times larger than the Heroes' team. While Heroes might be cheaper to make and maintain relative to traditional AAA games, I do not think that it is so much cheaper to the point where some people seem to imply. And it certainly does not seem to be dirt cheap, especially with the annual report confirming the substantial cost of developing mobile games to at least be somewhat comparable to a main series game.

Edited by XRay
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On 2/14/2020 at 8:53 AM, Vince777 said:

Of course it's going to drop after the first year and it will again next year. Regardless, 150 millions of revenues for a mobile game sounds like a boatload to me still. There is no way the game costs anywhere this much so it is still probably very profitable and has enough wiggle room to last another couple of years. 

I can't see it as a game that's "not exactly looking pretty financially right now".

 

well games like grand fate order or pokemon go do not follow that rule though

Pokemon go made more money in 2019 than 2016 the previous best earning year in wich it was hyped and played by a sizable chunk of the world. yet with a fraction of its playerbase left in 2019 the revenue is higher than it was when streets where filled with pokemon go sheeps. Pokemon go messed with rarity of certain mons and added more micro transaction features aka deeper holes for them whales to spend more money.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/10/21060877/pokemon-go-record-revenue-2019-niantic-labs-ar-growth

eitherway though even 50 million would be profitable for this game can't imagine this game costing more than a normal game, unless they invest a ton in advertising. also everytime they invest a bit for those small updates in fe heroes it's yet another wave of income from them whales to complete the collection. a few jpegs and some voice lines can't break the bank to much.

I mean a game only costs 40 to 60$ brand new. a few jpegs and some voice lines is a 100 - 500$ bill per whale per update? why invest millions to create a full game when you only have to draw some jpegs with voice lines instead and multiply those earnings for a fraction of the cost.

also if where talking voice actors from what i've heard it's tops 100$ - 200$ per full character heck I have even heard smaller jobs cost 20$ each. so them voice lines are pocket change as far as the english part goes where not talking big money here. voice actor jobs in english are a ton of 20$ bills per role. and considering FE heroes this isn't a long anime in wich voice actors actually have to voice for a sizable amount of time. so 20 to 50$ per character dubs might not be out of the question.

if where talking actual content the game is dirt cheap the only real costs are the people that are maintaining the game atm since it's online and with some updates. Full games dont have that so it could surpass base game costs if it runs long enough. however every update means a new wave of revenue something that full games dont have so the costs are not that much of an issue unless they advertise a ton. advertising is probably the most pricy aspect if where talking game cost. 

Is that a good thing though? imo not really I'd rather have a full game in wich the costs of a game are mainly in the development time of the gameitself instead of people maintaining it and for big time advertisment if where talking fe heroes.

Edited by SwordsDude
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On 2/14/2020 at 5:43 PM, XRay said:

Heroes has a credits section.

If we strip away all the voice actors/actress, character illustrators, people who made the movies, and special thanks, there are at least 150 people in the Japanese office alone (I counted around 170ish). North American localization team has about 40 people, and that is stripping away the voice actors. The European localization team has over two dozen people. That is a total of at least 230 people; if we include the people who made the movies, about 47 people, that totals to around 280. In the Japanese office, about 40 of those are server engineers, 7 programers, over a dozen designers, 12 promoters, and over dozen QA people, and I am pretty sure most of them have to stay employed continuously too. That is at least 50 people working on the game past initial development for over three years even if we assume a third of them got fired and downsized.

For GTA V, if we strip away special thanks and voice actors, there are 1840 staff who developed the game (I counted using Google sheets; I did not want to poke my computer screen for hours). The GTA V team is about 6.5 times larger than the Heroes' team. While Heroes might be cheaper to make and maintain relative to traditional AAA games, I do not think that it is so much cheaper to the point where some people seem to imply. And it certainly does not seem to be dirt cheap, especially with the annual report confirming the substantial cost of developing mobile games to at least be somewhat comparable to a main series game.

I doubt all people mentioned in the credit work full time on heroes. Given the fact IS only consists of 150 employees and they somehow managed to develope three houses on the side.

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11 minutes ago, Endriu said:

I doubt all people mentioned in the credit work full time on heroes. Given the fact IS only consists of 150 employees and they somehow managed to develope three houses on the side.

I can just as easily make a claim and say that not all 1,800 people worked full time on GTA V, since they were making Max Payne around the same time too.

Over time also is not cheap. At least for the United States, overtime costs more, and if you are not paying the extra rate on overtime, you are paying it in the form of higher turnover rates and extra training time trying to get new employees acclimated to their job or a decline in work performance.

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