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Fire Emblem Three Houses: Ideas for a "Revelations" route

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4 minutes ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Having an objective right answer to a moral question defeats the purpose of such a question. I'm sorry you don't understand that.

I do. Still doesn't make it good or terrible if we're talking about a video game.

Not to mention, it can always be deemed non-canon if people are really that concerned about it. Why should it stop people from playing what is designated as canon or not? It's a game. Choose what you want.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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42 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Why should it stop people from playing what is designated as canon or not? It's a game. Choose what you want.

Because some people like to feel like their choice matters. A game with multiple paths says "choose ANYTHING YOU WANT!" Adding a golden route means the game now says "choose ANYTHING YOU WANT but if you choose anything besides that one you're wrong." It doesn't have to literally be said, the implication is there.

That's why IS reaffirming "no golden route" means so much to me. It's not that I don't trust them to write it well (although given that they still can't write an avatar well, I don't), it's that they understand now why one doesn't belong in this type of story.

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12 minutes ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Because some people like to feel like their choice matters. A game with multiple paths says "choose ANYTHING YOU WANT!" Adding a golden route means the game now says "choose ANYTHING YOU WANT but if you choose anything besides that one you're wrong." It doesn't have to literally be said, the implication is there.

That's why IS reaffirming "no golden route" means so much to me. It's not that I don't trust them to write it well (although given that they still can't write an avatar well, I don't), it's that they understand now why one doesn't belong in this type of story.

Once again, it's not like that.

Plenty of games have alternative scenarios, what-if's, multiple choices, paths, etc. In many of those, things can go better, or even worse. Ultimately, they're just that: choices.

Why would FE be any different? The four-path structure of Three Houses already ensures we're unlikely to see a sequel to the game. Adding a fifth path isn't going to hurt things. As well as not adding it. Personally, I can go either way with having or not having a "Golden Route". The point I do find concern with is that they've stated they're not adding because, as you said, people THINK that "choose ANYTHING YOU WANT but if you choose anything besides that one you're wrong." is a thing. When it's really not. It's a more of a self-fulfilling thing from the players. At least, in this scenario. Implications can be real, or just perceived and not really exist, after all.

Again, just because a Golden route exist doesn't mean any others get invalidated. It's not a new or recent thing. As I already mentioned, plenty of games do this; and the thing is: they aren't always what developers go with.

To give examples, you have a game like Dragon Quest Builders, which bases itself from the "bad" ending of Dragon Quest. Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow has a post-game mode that unlocks by triggering the bad ending. The Dynasty Warriors series employs alternate scenarios that are more "Golden" than what happened historically... but they're always that: alternative non-historical paths that are hardly canon.

Having a "Golden route" that invalidates others is find and dandy and should be the only one that matters... in real life. Video games? Not so much.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Having a "Golden route" that invalidates others is find and dandy and should be the only one that matters... in real life. Video games? Not so much.

While it's clear we're never going to agree, I did want to address this right here. This is bad. For the first time you've said "You're wrong" instead of "I disagree". Don't do that. The reason I'm arguing not to diminish the routes is because I care about this story. I care about this world. I care about the characters. The game has managed to immerse me in its setting, and I love it for that. That's why the choices feel important to me. If you just flat out don't care, if you're only playing to get 100% completion, then I could understand you would want a golden route. But for me, that's not enough.

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1 hour ago, Sid Starkiller said:

While it's clear we're never going to agree, I did want to address this right here. This is bad. For the first time you've said "You're wrong" instead of "I disagree". Don't do that. The reason I'm arguing not to diminish the routes is because I care about this story. I care about this world. I care about the characters. The game has managed to immerse me in its setting, and I love it for that. That's why the choices feel important to me. If you just flat out don't care, if you're only playing to get 100% completion, then I could understand you would want a golden route. But for me, that's not enough.

Where did I said that? The only time I even used the word "wrong" was when quoting a quote you stated. If you're mistaken or assumed, it's okay, now I'm correcting you if needed. Just... "Don't do that", as you say, please. Also, I'm afraid I don't know how does that quoted part of the post correlates to your answer in yours.

I can see where you're going there. I agree. It's just that I also think that a Golden Route doesn't diminish any of that. The other routes still exist. Nothing says the Golden Route will matter outside of "one more choice". It's us who assign, or don't, the value. This is where we disagree on how alternate routes in a game can loose value. Developers can freely choose to ignore it as they choose to add it in the first place. In this case, Developers saw the trend of forgoing the other routes in Fates, or at least it's what they perceived it to be, so they're choosing to not repeat that. Simple as that.

For the record, while I would support a GR for the completion angle, I'm also partial to overall happy endings in fiction. Personally, I'm more on the fence between bittersweet and happy. Just outright bad or depressing endings are what I don't like... sometimes.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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I think that Golden routes should be confined to the realms of fanfictions, but they can make for very good fanfics!

That said, if I had to implement a "Golden Route" into Three Houses, I'd put it in Chapter 10.

Before chapter 10, you must have completed Byleth and Lysithea's C support. At the end of the conversation, Sothis will suggest pranking her by making a 'ghost' appear. If you choose to egg her on and ask her to try to make herself visible, she'll jumpscare poor Lysithea and, most importantly, find out she can make herself visible to others.

To trigger the alternate path, one must use a divine pulse after defeating Kronya, travel back to before Kronya is defeated, then defeat Kronya a second time. Doing so will allow Byleth to dodge the Zaharas spell and save Sothis. Solon will act shocked, until the house leader taunts him by saying his fancy spell missed. Defeat Solon as usual to proceed to Chapter 11. In Chapter 11, Rhea directs Byleth to the Holy Tomb for the goddess revival ceremony after the house leader points out they have an uncanny ability to see things coming.

In the tomb, Rhea directs Byleth onto the throne and, because Sothis is still around, she takes over Byleth's body. However, she is NOT happy about it and, after panicking a lot and shouting "Where is the child?!" several times, she uses a divine pulse to go back to before Byleth sat on the throne, and warns them about the danger. In respone, Byleth hesitates but Rhea pushes Byleth forwards...

If Sothis didn't find out she could make herself visible, Rhea will push Byleth onto the throne once more (to Sothis's horror) and you get a bad ending. Sothis is very bitter towards Rhea over Byleth's death, and causes infighting in the Church as Edelgard swoops in and easily wins the war. However, with Sothis!Byleth not in Edelgard's court, she fails to get enough political capital to shut down TWSITD, and they win.

If Sothis did find out she could make herself visible (by spooking Lysithea), a mature version of her will appear and stop proceedings. With both Rhea and Edelgard in shock at the goddess herself appearing before them, they listen when Sothis gives both of them a verbal beatdown. Edelgard surrenders before the war even begins and Rhea abandons her post as the head of the Church, with the pair of them accepting roles as advisers to Sothis. Claude accepts his role as Crown Prince of Almyra as Byleth opens the gates of Fodlan's locket and, with Sothis's blessing, Almyra and the Leicester Alliance unite.

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7 hours ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Having an objective right answer to a moral question defeats the purpose of such a question. I'm sorry you don't understand that.

Exactly, but a Revelation route

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14 hours ago, Seazas said:

And look at that, Intsys completely shut down a golden route in recent Famitsu info.

Just shows that the route is a bad idea if Intsys finds the idea terrible and would never make it. Thank god.

Intsys also thought Peri was a good idea, so, I wouldn't exactly say they're the end-all be-all for these ideas.

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4 hours ago, Seazas said:

Exactly, but a Revelation route

I mean there are visual novels that do the good bad and true endings look at fate stay night three different path all with there own bad good and true ending. It doesn't diminished the game at all. But people want to whine about choose. I mean just don't go the golden route it not canon. Non of the routes are but it fanbase be like it the canon route. U think fire emblem fanbase really want a canon route to three houses but every one has a favorite some blue lions some black eagles and some golden deer.

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If y'all want a conversation about "multiple, canon endings", look no further than Drakengard.  Guess which one is canon?

Spoiler

For the NieR universe, it's the joke ending.

In other words, unless the Word of the Creators say that "X is the True Ending", it'll be up to argue it.

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On 2/10/2020 at 12:16 AM, eclipse said:

Hmmm. . .how it ends. . .

Fodlan's borders are more-or-less intact.  The church's function is changed to that of a mediator between the various countries.  Meanwhile, everyone goes home.  I'll elaborate on this a bit later, since I need to do something.

 

On 2/10/2020 at 1:18 AM, eclipse said:

I had something written up in another thread, but alas, I can't find it.  So, I'm going to fully elaborate on it here.  But for it to work, there'd need to be some significant changes to the story in part 1.

  Reveal hidden contents

Edelgard and Dimitri's families were on decent terms with each other - so much so that Edelgard's family would visit every winter.  One winter, a plague breaks out in Enbarr.  Because of that, Edelgard is forced to stay longer than normal with Dimitri.  On her return, she finds that all of her siblings have died of the plague, and her father's once-proud figure has been broken - his body survived, but his heart didn't.  After that, she no longer visits Dimitri.  Since no one tells the young prince why she stopped visiting, he slowly blames her for things as life takes a downward spiral (including the tragedy at Duscur).

Claude is blissfully unaware of his own heritage, as most of his childhood is spent in Almyra.  Once he's recognized as the heir to the Alliance, he's forced to take a VERY front-row seat to its politics, including far too many visits with DImitri and Edelgard.  He naturally doesn't get along with either at first, but eventually sympathizes with both.

School begins, and it turns into a bit of a dick-waving contest.  Everything more-or-less looks the same, until Remire.  The villagers are going nuts, and Edelgard is paralyzed with fear - so much so that Hubert takes over for her during that mission.  Dimitri blames Edelgard for the deaths in Remire, while Claude slowly gets the truth out of Hubert (how the hell this happens is anyone's guess).

Because of the disaster at Remire, Edelgard is temporarily stripped of her duties as house leader.  This is the push she needs to ally with the Slithers, as they've promised her a cure to the plague.  They tell her that she needs to steal the stones in the tomb, which she does.  Hubert reveals that he knew of the plan, and supports Edelgard, because someone needs to do so.  This causes a rift between the three leaders - Claude saw this coming, but no one believed him, and Dimitri's mind is more-or-less made up.  A fight breaks out, and the three leaders are kicked out of the monastery, on Rhea's orders.

Five years later, and things look grim in the various lands.  The Kingdom's crown jewel, Arianhod, has been reduced to rubble, and a threatening letter was sent to Dimitri, promising the rest of his country would face a similar fate if he didn't cooperate.  Signs of the plague at Remire break out in border towns of the Empire, and Almyra's set for a full-scale invasion of the Alliance.  The three leaders remember a promise they made to Byleth - if ever they truly need assistance, go back to the monastery, and ask.  To their surprise, it's Byleth that greets them as the head of the church.  The three spill their stories, and Rhea steps out from the shadows, and explains the true past.  Edelgard is disgusted by the turn of events, but the rage in Dimitri's eyes is replaced by tears.  Claude is the one that snaps everyone back to reality.  He explains that the plague they're seeing is native to Almyra - and they have the cure, BUT they're threatening to invade.  The three leaders hatch a desperate plan, each to save their countries.  Claude will take what Almyrans he's managed to sway to his side to Arianhod, and try to figure out how it was destroyed.  Their specialty is aerial patrol, so they'd have a better view of what happened.  Dimitri's side will go to Enbarr - they're familiar with the first plague, and know how to handle the victims.  Edelgard's army will fortify the Almyran border, because all will be for naught if the Alliance falls.

Further investigation into Arianhod reveals a collapsed hall that wasn't on any plans.  The Slithers reveal themselves here, and Claude fights them off.  Meanwhile, investigations into the plague reveal a third Slither behind it all - someone who managed to modify the native Almyran sickness such that it creates a fighting zombie, instead of a delirious patient.  Edelgard's army manages to hold out against the Almyrans, who have some suspicious technology among their midst - and troops from other countries.  Once Claude and Dimitri finish their missions, they hurry to the Almyran border.  Dimitri identifies some of the foreign troops as Sreng, and states that they have no business being this far south.  A bit of fighting reveals that all the troops are just as brainwashed as the plague victims.  It's then that Nader leads a small force towards Edelgard and co., with a promise of talks.

Nader tells them that the majority of his kingdom's troops have been infected, and are not under his control.  The troops he leads are those that he managed to rescue, and they're far outnumbered by the zombies.  He points out the weeds surrounding them, saying that the cure is there, but it takes a long time to render out the appropriate antidote.  With time NOT on their side, Claude leads a small force to go pick herbs, Dimitir prepares the necessary equipment to distill the antidote, and Edelgard makes sure their position isn't overrun.

From within the army, the Silther agents attempt to cause mayhem.  One of them signals Hubert, who promptly sets him on fire.  Hubert explains that he became a double agent, on Edelgard's request.  The Slithers want to destroy Sothis, Rhea, and anyone that supported them, and have no qualms about using the other countries as pawns in their schemes.  Rhea realized this, and figured the shared hatred of the Slithers would unite the countries of Fodlan - hence why she stepped down.  With the truth of the conflict revealed, she transforms into her true form, which throws the other side into chaos.  While this is happening, Edelgard''s troops desperately administer the antidote to as many enemies as possible.  Many are saved, but at the price of many more lives.

Brigid shows up to help - Petra sent a message to her homeland as soon as she saw the situation on the Almyran border.  Ferdinand, Caspar, Linhardt, Bernadetta, Lorenz, and Lysithea each share whatever their families knew - though the knowledge is fragmented, it's enough to pinpoint the lair of the Slithers.  Both Dedue and Sylvain are nowhere to be found, and are assumed to be dead.  Dimitri seems unfazed.  They march on the entrance to the Slithers - Arianhod.

The Slither's trap is set into motion.  With no support from above, the army is caught between troops from within the city and those raining hell from behind.  That is, until another army breaks through.  The remnants of Duscur, led by Dedue, and a company of Sreng, led by Sylvain, break through the rear army.  With defeat certain, the Slithers set their city to self-destruct.  Knowing her time is short, Rhea blasts a hole in the walls, and uses herself to shield the army from the worst of the blast.  Despite being a bitter enemy, Edelgard requests that the army takes some time off to properly bury Rhea at Garrag Mach.

Shortly after the funeral rites, the final experiment of the Slithers is released - Nemesis, in an artificial body.  Lysithea's family was chosen to be experiments for crest power, and unbeknowst to her, one of her older brothers survived.  The three armies take on Nemesis.  When all is said and done, Almyra's forces are almost completely wiped out, and the other country's armies aren't in much better shape.  With a lot of rebuilding to do, both Dimitri and Edelgard go back to their respective places, this time with a peace treaty.  Claude leaves the alliance in Lorenz's hands, because Almyra needs a king.  Byleth takes over the church, and uses its power both to run the academy, and to peacefully resolve conflicts among countries.  A small army is assigned to the church, mostly to keep the countryside safe from monsters and the like.  Though with the sheer amount of life lost, it will be a while before any of the countries are a threat.

 

Trust me, I've got a pretty wild part 1 alternative. So, to me, Tiki x Robin is my canonical relationship (Obviously, if you look at my profile picture). Now, stay with me here, but what if Sothis was potentially the daughter, or even sister, of the Morgan birthed by Tiki. One reason I believe it would make sense is that Grima, Robin's dragonic ancestor, was able to manipulate time as well as Sothis.

Now imagine this. What if Robin, being part dragon, was still alive due to the long lifetime of dragons and manketes, despite losing Grima's mark. I believe that could be possible as well, since Nah, despite being substantially younger, looks just as old as her mother, who is over a 1000 years old. That would mean that Robin, as Seiros' (Rhea's) grandfather  or great grandfather, could potentially discipline Seiros, Cichol, and Cethlenn into cooperating more with the Empire, Kingdom, and Alliance, and maybe even get to admit her wrongdoings. Robin, being their ancestor in this case, may even be able to convince Indech and Macuil to ally themselves with this. 

I even thought a little about the climactic final battle, which I believe could involve another potential revival of Grima (which sounds a little corny even to me), alongside Nemesis and the Ten Elites, and at the end, there could even be an epic clash of dragons (Robin, Seiros, Cichol, Cethlenn, Macuil, and Indech V.S. Grima).

Its obviously very out there and the fact that it would obviously upset many fans, as it would basically say their head canon is wrong, this ending would never happen, although I would totally make a FE3H fanmade route like this if I could. Although, as Grima was also in Echoes, maybe it wouldn't be the most farfetched thing.

I can make it even more crazy if you throw in the link to the outrealms, meaning Fates could tie in as well. That would ironic and pretty funny to watch all the responses from those who hate Revelations. Morgan could also play the same role in place or even alongside with Robin. Same with Tiki.

Edited by WarriorAaron123

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. . .let's not tie Ylissse into this, thank you.  Crossovers can get messy (see: Gaiden).

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Honestly, I would have liked a golden route, even if it would have been hard, them having goals that aren't that much different makes it difficult to me to think about them agreeing being something impossible, even if it would have been hard, maybe needing Byleth coming back in time after having gone through all the routes or something like that.

What "bothers" me more than the lack of a golden route though, it's being forced to kill Edelgard/Dimitri. I understand that it might be too "idealistic", but at the state they are after being defeated it's not like there`s an actual need to kill them, imprisoning them would  enough imo.

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13 hours ago, eclipse said:

. . .let's not tie Ylissse into this, thank you.  Crossovers can get messy (see: Gaiden).

Lol didn't plan to. My plan wasn't even really to change part 1 at all. I was partly giving an example why it could get pretty crazy. Although I do think Shadows of Valentia gave Grima more depth and improved his image as a villain.

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38 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Honestly, I would have liked a golden route, even if it would have been hard, them having goals that aren't that much different makes it difficult to me to think about them agreeing being something impossible, even if it would have been hard, maybe needing Byleth coming back in time after having gone through all the routes or something like that.

What "bothers" me more than the lack of a golden route though, it's being forced to kill Edelgard/Dimitri. I understand that it might be too "idealistic", but at the state they are after being defeated it's not like there`s an actual need to kill them, imprisoning them would  enough imo.

Lol that was exactly what I was trying to get to with my first post. Although, I do agree it would probably be smarter to make you do the other 4 routes first, then do something like time travel back and have deja vu. I think making you do the other 4 routes would also help make it so you don't "undermine" them. Maybe even just make you do 2 routes or something. Revelations would probably be better for most people if you had to experience the struggles of Nohr and Hoshido first. That's what I did personally.

I also agree with you about killing Dimitri/Edelgard. It's for a somewhat honorable reason she wants you to kill her in SS/VW but besides the ending in AM, Dimitri is probably at his best in CF which is why I thought it was unnecessary for her to kill him. I was already feeling bad about having to kill the students I didn't recruit on my first playthrough. I got most of them but Sylvain and Dedue were kinda tough to kill, although you can't recruit Dedue anyways. Glad I didn't have to kill Mercedes, too. All except for Rhea in CF and Edelgard in AM, it would have been easy to imprison and reconcile with the critical enemies. Forget TWSITD though. They get what's coming to them, those Illuminati wannabes.

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On 2/7/2020 at 4:52 AM, Sid Starkiller said:

Why are people so afraid of making hard decisions?

I agree with your main point. It's best there isn't a best route

 To answer this question specifically, the answer is the question. They're hard decisions. People are afraid because of the implication of a finite wrong decision and it's lasting repurcussions. I mean obviously this is a video game and you can replay it multiple times, but it's also the reason I and a lot of people play certain games with a guide, to make sure you don't miss out on anything.

Edited by CH0D

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8 hours ago, CH0D said:

 To answer this question specifically, the answer is the question. They're hard decisions. People are afraid because of the implication of a finite wrong decision and it's lasting repurcussions. I mean obviously this is a video game and you can replay it multiple times, but it's also the reason I and a lot of people play certain games with a guide, to make sure you don't miss out on anything.

This isn't a hard decision.  I'm all for experimentation, even if it turns out to be a trainwreck.

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17 hours ago, eclipse said:

I'm all for experimentation, even if it turns out to be a trainwreck.

Totally agreeable. Why else would it be called "experimentation", then?

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Rather than a golden route I think it would be more interesting if future DLC offered more mini arcs like Cindered Shadows. Little chapter packs of about 7 chapters or so that take place either somewhere during the Academy phase or during the timeskip. 

Personally I think an excursion to Briggid could be very rewarding. It would be the first look outside of Fodlan and due to its small size you could end up exploring most of what Briggid has to offer in a few chapters. Someone from Dagda could be a likely antagonist, thereby fleshing out Dagda a little bit too. A Briggid arc could also give Three Houses the chance to depict Briggid as the tropical island its supposed to be rather than the cold pine forest that Petra's paralogue weirdly depicted it as. A more tropical dlc setting will ensure a more varied setting while also leaving the door open for some beach fanservice. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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On 2/14/2020 at 10:34 PM, eclipse said:

This isn't a hard decision.  I'm all for experimentation, even if it turns out to be a trainwreck.

I mean, it's really subjective. I know I'm not for experimentation but that doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

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2 hours ago, CH0D said:

I mean, it's really subjective. I know I'm not for experimentation but that doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

For the general philosophy, yes.

For the choice in a video game (which is what I addressed), not so much.  One can always stick to the same decision.

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On 2/15/2020 at 7:26 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Rather than a golden route I think it would be more interesting if future DLC offered more mini arcs like Cindered Shadows. Little chapter packs of about 7 chapters or so that take place either somewhere during the Academy phase or during the timeskip. 

Personally I think an excursion to Briggid could be very rewarding. It would be the first look outside of Fodlan and due to its small size you could end up exploring most of what Briggid has to offer in a few chapters. Someone from Dagda could be a likely antagonist, thereby fleshing out Dagda a little bit too. A Briggid arc could also give Three Houses the chance to depict Briggid as the tropical island its supposed to be rather than the cold pine forest that Petra's paralogue weirdly depicted it as. A more tropical dlc setting will ensure a more varied setting while also leaving the door open for some beach fanservice. 

I agree. This sounds amazing! I'm not an expert of Briggid, but that could be nice. The miniarcs could also happen possibly after the events of three houses to give a glimpse into how the world is changing. But not only that, it could also have other countries as well. Show us the neighbors of fodlan so we know more about the world. It was nice in awakening to leave Ylisse and see what else is nearby, the same with fates and the other small nations. Build apon this world people love, and maybe you can give small golden endings to these characters in their miniarc. A good compromise yeah?

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I would like to believe the reason for a Fates “Golden Ending” as people have put it was not for reasons of story, but rather a specific part of it´s gameplay. That aspect being unit customization. Want Samurai Selena? Have her get it on with Hinata. Want Crit-O-Fucking-Phelia? Combine the two O´s, grind out them sweet skills and there you go. Three Houses to a certain degree already does that. You can freely decide in which class you put your units and you can, with exceptions, recruit characters from other houses (yeah, I am kinda salty I can´t have Hilda on CF, but in exchange I get white hair smasher-girl, or that Dedue is locked to AM). So, from a gameplay perspective I don´t feel it would add much to the game.

As for story, yeah that ain´t my cup of tea.

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On 2/16/2020 at 1:26 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

A more tropical dlc setting will ensure a more varied setting while also leaving the door open for some beach fanservice. 

Shocked that this hasn't occurred already, you think that they would leaping at the chance lol !

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