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Fire Emblem Three Houses: Ideas for a "Revelations" route

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5 hours ago, darkblade2814 said:

there are still 2 empty dlc slots in the game files, so do you guys want to see what happens?

Of course!¬† ūüėõ

Not sure if a fifth route (as in, something else you can do post-timeskip, complete with its own ending) could be sandwiched in, though.  It would require some serious retcons to make it work IMO.

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On 2/19/2020 at 6:18 PM, darkblade2814 said:

there are still 2 empty dlc slots in the game files, so do you guys want to see what happens?

On 2/19/2020 at 11:34 PM, eclipse said:

Of course!¬† ūüėõ

Not sure if a fifth route (as in, something else you can do post-timeskip, complete with its own ending) could be sandwiched in, though.  It would require some serious retcons to make it work IMO.

Here's the tweet in question for those curious about the datamines, including a change to the mystery character's data:

Spoiler

 

Given this info, I think it'd be interesting to see (CS spoilers):

Spoiler

a story set three years before Byleth's birth with Sitri and Jeralt (she was 19~20 when she died and had Sothis' Crest Stone, so the age and Crest check out). Maybe we'd finally get a playable Rhea too?

Edit:

On topic, I think the closest we'd get to a Golden route is a merger of SS, AM and VW, since Edelgard's feud with the Church of Seiros is too integral to her for her and Rhea to reconcile as it stands. If we had a new route where Byleth travels back in time to clear the air between everyone though, that could work. However, you should only be able to access it by completing all the others for it to feel earned (and so that Byleth has as much knowledge as possible, of course).

Edited by DefyingFates

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I think it would be too much work to create a relatively happy ending for the three lords without making it crap - do recall Revelations is one of the most vilified titles within FE fandom. The risk:reward for IS isn't there. 

That said, it's certainly possible. If Edelgard and Claude were better aware of each other's goals and circumstances (nomimsayin?) they could work together, and if Dimitry knew the "truth" he could stand to work something out with Edelgard. Byleth would of course serve as the bridge that connects the three.

I do think it would require Byleth to be much more active in building bridges and learning about themselves, because in the storylines Byleth is largely clueless, only reacting to what happens around them and learning incidentally. So it would probably require big revisions to most chapters instead of just 11 and beyond. 

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For those who didn't see it, there's a translated interview with the devs here that basically confirms the reasons us nay-sayers brought up for why there isn't a Revelation-esque route (note that it's two pages, click through at the end of the first page for more on Cindered Shadows & Anna) :

https://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-three-houses-devs-on-the-games-difficulty-why-there-wasnt-a-revelation-like-route-cindered-shadows-more/

Quote

Kusakihara: If we had created a route for Three Houses like Revelation was to Fates, that route would have definitely ended up being perceived as the ‚Äúcorrect‚ÄĚ route. In Three Houses, each route is its own history, and we wanted players to be able to decide that for themselves. In this game, the leaders of the three houses have their own unwavering beliefs and worldviews that are unique to themselves. We wanted to model the story and its themes after a dilemma that was grounded in reality, so from the beginning there were never any plans to make something like Revelation.¬† (Nintendo Everything translation)

Note that Genki Yokota says afterward he *would* have been up for doing something like Revelation, but would be worried that they'd just end up repeating Revelation too closely, so there were clearly issues to work out even if they decided to go forward with it.

Anyway, I entirely agree with the above thought from Kusakihara.  A true Golden Route needs to be something "between" all of the characters that's acceptable to all.  (To be sure, it's easy to imagine the likes of a Crimson Flower +, Azure Moon+, etc. where fewer allies die and more enemies just convert to your side, but that's not really a Golden Route, just an "I don't want any setbacks or sad things" route that will ring hollow.)  But the three leaders have unique and unwavering beliefs, so having them all put their ideologies aside weakens both the narrative and the characters.  In FE Fates, the war was basically nonsense that only started because Garon was influenced by an insane dragon, so it's reasonable to see a Revelation route where everyone agrees this is stupid and stops.  The war in 3H is not so easily undone, since it's not caused by blatant evil mind control or anything.

Edited by SnowFire

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36 minutes ago, SnowFire said:

For those who didn't see it, there's a translated interview with the devs here that basically confirms the reasons us nay-sayers brought up for why there isn't a Revelation-esque route (note that it's two pages, click through at the end of the first page for more on Cindered Shadows & Anna) :

https://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-three-houses-devs-on-the-games-difficulty-why-there-wasnt-a-revelation-like-route-cindered-shadows-more/

Note that Genki Yokota says afterward he *would* have been up for doing something like Revelation, but would be worried that they'd just end up repeating Revelation too closely, so there were clearly issues to work out even if they decided to go forward with it.

Anyway, I entirely agree with the above thought from Kusakihara.  A true Golden Route needs to be something "between" all of the characters that's acceptable to all.  (To be sure, it's easy to imagine the likes of a Crimson Flower +, Azure Moon+, etc. where fewer allies die and more enemies just convert to your side, but that's not really a Golden Route, just an "I don't want any setbacks or sad things" route that will ring hollow.)  But the three leaders have unique and unwavering beliefs, so having them all put their ideologies aside weakens both the narrative and the characters.  In FE Fates, the war was basically nonsense that only started because Garon was influenced by an insane dragon, so it's reasonable to see a Revelation route where everyone agrees this is stupid and stops.  The war in 3H is not so easily undone, since it's not caused by blatant evil mind control or anything.

I'm really glad this is the confirmed reason for why there's no Golden Route, cuz it seriously would have undermined the whole premise of the game like Revelation did with Fates.

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2 hours ago, SnowFire said:

For those who didn't see it, there's a translated interview with the devs here that basically confirms the reasons us nay-sayers brought up for why there isn't a Revelation-esque route (note that it's two pages, click through at the end of the first page for more on Cindered Shadows & Anna) :

https://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-three-houses-devs-on-the-games-difficulty-why-there-wasnt-a-revelation-like-route-cindered-shadows-more/

Note that Genki Yokota says afterward he *would* have been up for doing something like Revelation, but would be worried that they'd just end up repeating Revelation too closely, so there were clearly issues to work out even if they decided to go forward with it.

Anyway, I entirely agree with the above thought from Kusakihara.  A true Golden Route needs to be something "between" all of the characters that's acceptable to all.  (To be sure, it's easy to imagine the likes of a Crimson Flower +, Azure Moon+, etc. where fewer allies die and more enemies just convert to your side, but that's not really a Golden Route, just an "I don't want any setbacks or sad things" route that will ring hollow.)  But the three leaders have unique and unwavering beliefs, so having them all put their ideologies aside weakens both the narrative and the characters.  In FE Fates, the war was basically nonsense that only started because Garon was influenced by an insane dragon, so it's reasonable to see a Revelation route where everyone agrees this is stupid and stops.  The war in 3H is not so easily undone, since it's not caused by blatant evil mind control or anything.

IS does have a solid layer of logic to wrap around themselves to not justify a "golden" route. The release of Revelation made Birthright and Conquest obsolete story-wise. On the other hand, you can recruit everyone except the other houses' lords + confidants... so when you're out to maximize your roster it feels a bit awkward for the other lords to not change their thought process when Byleth has poached nearly all of their base.

The setup could be something along the lines of being able to have Support conversations with the lords and confidants once you've recruited enough characters, then building up said Support to trigger additional options. 

And guess what? Just because you have the three lords roughly on the same page  doesn't mean the outcome should be happy. There could be a lot of negative consequences that you will spend the timeskip half undoing, maybe with much worse ramifications than any of the original routes. Say:

  1. Edelgard decides against the Holy Tomb raid and therefore acting as Emperor, trusting Byleth and the other lords for a less forceful approach to change
  2. Corrupt nobles move into power with Arundel/Thales as the de facto Emperor
  3. Rhea feels like she won't get Sothis "back" from Byleth, turns hostile towards the lords blaming them for her failure to revive Sothis or otherwise have Byleth on her side
  4. Byleth sides with the lords and they're forced to flee the monastery
  5. World state becomes similar to AM (Cornelia murders Rufus then frames Dimitry), but importantly with TWSITD instead of Edelgard in charge of the Empire, the Church emaciated and the Alliance in a state of civil war
  6. Most of second half is basically fighting against the Agarthians, and by the end of the route Fodlan is essentially destroyed and remains divided, with each lord agreeing to do their best to rebuild and work together despite the ongoing anarchy OR unite a destroyed Fodlan with only the lord you first choice alive (the other two died in battle). 

Overall, the implication of a "golden" route could be that everyone working together to defeat their common foes lead to far greater sacrifices than expected, and having to work with a worse-off world as a trade-off for tying the loose ends.

Edited by NolanBaumgartner

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I agree that the Lords are too different to work together properly, but reading through the last page does make me curious about what would happen if Edelgard and Claude came to an understanding, since then you'd get a CF+VW vs AM+SS conflict. That could be interesting.

Also, maybe this is just wishful thinking, but I can't help but notice that no one in the interview definitively said we were done with updates, just that they were amazed that they'd come so far. Not that this means we're getting a Golden Route, of course, but it's something~

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Honestly, I'm torned between the fact that I want some interactions between the main lords, and the fact that it would make the other path useless. But there is a lot of potential with this game so I'll wait and see ūüôā

I'm wondering what if Jeralt didn't die and Kronya was captured instead? I was disappointed that we couldn't work with the flame emperor despite the fact we could choose the option. 

Actually, I'm quite surprised that characters like Judith, Nader, Ladislava, Randolph, Fleche or Rodrigue aren't recruitable. I feel like they're going to be included at one point, there is too much potential to left them as npc.. Especially when some are just killed off screen despite the fact that they seemed important. Maybe they could be included in some update or something else? I really hope so, because Judith and Ladislava had so much potential... 

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46 minutes ago, Metakirby said:

Honestly, I'm torned between the fact that I want some interactions between the main lords, and the fact that it would make the other path useless. But there is a lot of potential with this game so I'll wait and see ūüôā

I'm wondering what if Jeralt didn't die and Kronya was captured instead? I was disappointed that we couldn't work with the flame emperor despite the fact we could choose the option. 

Actually, I'm quite surprised that characters like Judith, Nader, Ladislava, Randolph, Fleche or Rodrigue aren't recruitable. I feel like they're going to be included at one point, there is too much potential to left them as npc.. Especially when some are just killed off screen despite the fact that they seemed important. Maybe they could be included in some update or something else? I really hope so, because Judith and Ladislava had so much potential... 

Ladislava, Randolph, and Rodrigue I'm not so sure considering they do die in their respective routes, but Judith, Nader, and Flèche absolutely

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21 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

Ladislava, Randolph, and Rodrigue I'm not so sure considering they do die in their respective routes, but Judith, Nader, and Flèche absolutely

Imo, it's only a small change to do for Ladislava. I agree for both Randolph and Rodrigue though. And I think Fleche could be interesting as a character because of Randolph's death. (I admit I'm so frustrated that Ladislava isn't playable, she's so charismatic) 

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On 2/7/2020 at 8:51 AM, Benice said:

It would be difficult, but it could be a common enemy/temporary alliance that becomes less temporary.

Honestly that is kind of a good idea. If there were to be like a world threatening villain (probably TWSITD) that if they weren't checked, they would like literally destroy all of humanity I feel like the lords could put aside their differences and create a temporary Alliance with a sort of agreement that once they had dealt with the threat they would resume their conflict, but throughout the war they are able to reconcile all their shit and there is some sort of harmony created. 

 

Don't get me wrong I don't think we should get any golden ending cause that sort of goes against the themes of war that really define the game. But if I'm being honest, getting that Dimitri x Edelgard ending would feel pretty good lol.

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Bit late, but one interesting way to handle a golden Route is to have only two of the house leaders pair up to accomplish something. This would create three new routes that could have different stories and themes.

  • Claude and Dimitri - Work together to take down Edelgard. Claude could act as a voice of reason to Dimitri, giving him a better idea of Edelgard's perspective and her involvement with the tragedy. Not sure what themes this path could be, but it could explore how one should accept a truth that lines up with their logic, not their emotions.
  • Dimitri and Edelgard - Work together to defeat TWSITD. Both work together to defeat their uncle and mother. The theme of this path could be confronting and accepting the past, and not letting it get in the way of the present.
  • Edelgard and Claude - Work together to confront Rhea, destroying the prejudice and inhibition of technology that she promotes. This path would have a theme of understanding the purpose of the old systems, but rejecting it in favor of pursuing new ideals & uncharted territories.

I could actually see the devs combining all these ideas into one new path. Something where Claude and Dimtri fight Edelgard at first, but Dimitri's more tempered attitude allows him to persuade Edelgard into joining his army. Then, all three fight TWSITD, with Dimitri and Edelgard learning the truth about their pasts'. Finally, all three confront Rhea and the church. I feel that each route would have a stronger impact if they were individual narratives rather than being combined, but it would help save on dev time, so I wouldn't mind it. It would still be somewhat unique since you'd fight the Church of Seiros at the end, who are contextualized much better than FE's standard evil religious zealots.

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I just made a post looking at a Golden Route from an adaptation perspective, but I still think it applies here.

Basically, I think you could insert AM in the middle of SS/ VW so you get both Dimitri and Claude's arcs to play out (you'd basically slot the second half of AM between Gronder 2 and the Assault on Enbarr) and you get Nemesis and Berserk Rhea too - though YMMV on who's fought first.

However, Crimson Flower may be too different to merge as it stands so would be a what-if. Even looking at this purely as a Revelations-style route...I think Edelgard's goals and methods are just too far removed from everyone else's. Even if everyone sat down and tried to talk things out, I don't think she'd be willing to compromise on either. For example, Claude implies he'd be willing to fight for his ideals too, but not to the extremes Edelgard goes to.

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1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

However, Crimson Flower may be too different to merge as it stands so would be a what-if. Even looking at this purely as a Revelations-style route...I think Edelgard's goals and methods are just too far removed from everyone else's. Even if everyone sat down and tried to talk things out, I don't think she'd be willing to compromise on either. For example, Claude implies he'd be willing to fight for his ideals too, but not to the extremes Edelgard goes to.

Yep, Edelgard is DEFINITELY the elephant in the room. And a big one, too. Which is why it would most likely be better to try and talk to her before the timeskip. Somehow get at least a C support with Edelgard, Claude AND Dimitri by giving them presents or inviting them to tea, and that COULD unlock the gateway to a Golden Ending. Somewhere along the way, Edelgard will have a case of "My God, What Have I Done?" and wonder if she's really doing the right thing after all, all because of the talk you had with her five years ago. In fact, Edelgard would be the hardest to convince, maybe you would have to get a B support with her.

Dimitri would be the second hardest to convince, only because he is suffering from PTSD and God knows what else. But he could possibly be saved in Verdant Wind or Silver Snow is his support level with Byleth is high enough? (He won't survive Crimson Flower simply because he is against Edelgard.) Claude would be the easiest to convice due to being level-headed, and if he gets a high enough support with Byleth, he should appear in Silver Snow, given he can already survive all other routes.

So Byleth gets a high enough support level with Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude before the timeskip, and the route seems to go as normal depending on what house you chose. Here's my idea:
- If Dimitri gets a high enough support level with Byleth in Verdant Wind/Silver Snow:
-- Dimitri will realise that going up against the Imperial Army at Gronder Field is suicide, and will turn to Byleth for help in Silver Snow.
-- Dimitri will stop pursuing Edelgard in Verdant Wind when he gets exhausted, having held back.
-- He will still die in Crimson Flower because Edelgard is too set in her ways, unless Claude gets a high enough support level too.
- If Claude gets a high enough support level with Byleth:
-- He will NOT attack the Blue Lions in Gronder Field. If you talk to him, the Golden Deer become Allies.
-- He cannot be executed in Crimson Flower, because Byleth absolutely won't let Edelgard kill him.
-- He makes an appearance in Silver Snow, instead of going missing forever.
- If Edelgard gets a high enough support level with Byleth:
-- She will take Dimitri's hand and try to atone for her sins when he spares her in Azure Moon.
-- She will be taken prisoner in Silver Snow, because Byleth refuses to kill her.
-- Similar thing happens in Verdand Wind as Silver Snow

The Golden Ending could run like this:
Silver Snow: Byleth and his army makes it to the three way battle and is able to stop the House Leaders from killing each other. They fight TWSITD (which makes the House Leaders trust each other more) and try to save Rhea, but she still goes berserk and needs to be defeated too (but not killed). Fodlan is no longer run by the church but Byleth is the new leader, with the three houses having different roles in the leadership.
Azure Moon: Dimitri is still mentally unstable, but in the three way battle at Gronder, Claude and the Alliance join Dimitri and Byleth. Eventually, Dimitri tries to make peace with Edelgard, but is forced to fight her anyway. However, Edelgard accepts Dimitri's mercy at the last minute. TWSITD attacks because they are angry that the House Leaders are no longer fighting each other and fear that the Church will reign supreme, but everyone fights them off. Dimitri now rules Fodlan, and Byleth takes over the Church.
Verdand Wind: Claude's Army stands up to the Empire. Dimitri tries to pursue Edelgard but fails, and he retreats, having held back. He reluctantly joins Byleth's army. They rise against the Empire and defeat Edelgard, but Byleth refuses to kill her, because their bond with her is too strong. They take her prisoner and she fights for them when they stand up to TWSITD. Rhea's involvement in defeating TWSITD seems to change Edelgard's view of the Church. Fodlan is now ruled by Byleth and Claude and racism is abolished and the borders are opened.
Crimson Flower: Edelgard defeats the Alliance, but Byleth absolutely refuses to let Claude and the Golden Deer die and have the Alliance fight for the Empire instead. They then attack the Kingdom and defeat Dimitri, but Dimitri is spared when Byleth stops him and the Blue Lions from turning into demonic beasts and heals everyone, Edelgard wonders what the hell Byleth is doing but memories of their childhood friendship resurface, and Byleth convices her that killing her old friends in order to fulfil ideals is wrong, and Dimitri finds out that Edelgard is not responsible for the Tragedy of Duscur, etc. so the Kingdom reluctantly joins the Empire. Rhea goes berserk and turns into a dragon, but Byleth is able to calm her down, much to Edelgard's shock, but Edelgard learns that the Church is not as bad as TWSITD, who are responsible for a bunch of the things that happened. They fight TWSITD and win. Fodlan is united by the Empire under Edelgard's rule and the Church, while it still stands, no longer has a part in ruling Fodlan, and Edelgard abolishes the crest system altogether, making Crests nothing but a tool in battle/life.

This is only a rough idea of what could happen. Someone can come an polish this up, but I believe that this may put some concerns to rest.

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