Othin Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Humanoid said: The "value" in the included orbs is only relevant an individual if they value the orbs at their nominal price. If the deal instead was $1005 and included a designer handbag with a sticker price of $1000 alongside the Resplendent Heroes I'm not going to think that's a good deal unless I agree that the handbag is worth $1000 and was going to buy it anyway. It's the same with the orbs - I don't value them at the sticker price and would rather just have them removed with a pro-rata reduction in the subscription price. I don't know how many people are like me. People who are done buying orbs but would be theoretically open to other forms of purchase. But because of what I've described, I don't feel like the Pass is going to be converting very many F2P players into subscribers. $5, no orbs and removal of the QoL restrictions and I might be in. The point is that anyone who does buy orbs must value them at their normal price, otherwise they wouldn't buy them. Plenty of people don't buy orbs, but those are a lot harder to entice with something like this in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Othin said: The point is that anyone who does buy orbs must value them at their normal price, otherwise they wouldn't buy them. Plenty of people don't buy orbs, but those are a lot harder to entice with something like this in the first place. Yeah, I can only guess at the business case behind the decision. But if (because I don't know the target audience) the goal is to expand the base of paying customers, then forcing them to effectively buy orbs - something they may consciously not done for years - doesn't seem like it would be the answer. Offering something completely different has a better chance than the same old type of deal but with some sweeteners added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landmaster Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, AvatarofDiscord said: 1: The Price It's a meme at this point but $10 a month? For two heroes and 5 orbs? Not exactly worth it It's 10 Orbs, 240 Toilet Papers, 100 Grails, 240 Aether Stones, and 70 Dew, plus 2 Resplendent Heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Humanoid said: Yeah, I can only guess at the business case behind the decision. But if (because I don't know the target audience) the goal is to expand the base of paying customers, then forcing them to effectively buy orbs - something they may consciously not done for years - doesn't seem like it would be the answer. Offering something completely different has a better chance than the same old type of deal but with some sweeteners added. Since the subscription is pretty cheap, it seems like they are targeting the free players and really low spenders. However, $10 a month seems kind of high though as an entry point, and $5 does make more sense in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, Humanoid said: Yeah, I can only guess at the business case behind the decision. But if (because I don't know the target audience) the goal is to expand the base of paying customers, then forcing them to effectively buy orbs - something they may consciously not done for years - doesn't seem like it would be the answer. Offering something completely different has a better chance than the same old type of deal but with some sweeteners added. It does seem like leaving out the orbs but dropping the price to half would have at least looked better while being unlikely to hurt overall profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafarer Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Something I think they should have done is given everyone a free 1-month trial. Sure, it'd delay the extra revenue, but it would achieve a few things: First, every player would feel like they got something from its announcement. Extra resources for a month and two free five-star units, plus permanent stat boosts for Lyn and Cordelia. That's worth a lot of goodwill from the player base. Second, it would get people accustomed to having the extra benefits, so some people who in our timeline refuse to subscribe might choose to re-subscribe just to avoid losing them. I mean, people might be mad about being made to pay to avoid losing the benefits, but if it was clear from the beginning that this would happen, I think that most people would accept it. So likely a net gain for IntSys's revenue. Third, it'd make my +10 Cordelia even stronger. ...what? I like strong units, okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriu Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Othin said: It does seem like leaving out the orbs but dropping the price to half would have at least looked better while being unlikely to hurt overall profits. Thats a very good point. The overall negative reaction (or rather hailing shitstorms) created a situation where it's even unpopular to buy the pass. Cutting the price, leaving out unfair advantages and the pass could have been a success. I doubt Nintendo is proud if those 18k dislikes on youtube for their anniversary. @Seafarer I honestly doubt it would have prevented the shitstorms. Edited February 10, 2020 by Endriu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeExponents- Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Landmaster said: It's 10 Orbs, 240 Toilet Papers, 100 Grails, 240 Aether Stones, and 70 Dew, plus 2 Resplendent Heroes. 100 grail isn't even enough to get you anything past the first copy and 10 orbs ain't even a full summon. Talk about highway robbery. Instead of locking 36 points of stats behind it they should have focused on making the rest more enticing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriu Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Just now, NegativeExponents- said: 100 grail isn't even enough to get you anything past the first copy and 10 orbs ain't even a full summon. Talk about highway robbery. Instead of locking 36 points of stats behind it they should have focused on making the rest more enticing Its either 26 or 46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said: 100 grail isn't even enough to get you anything past the first copy and 10 orbs ain't even a full summon. Talk about highway robbery. Instead of locking 36 points of stats behind it they should have focused on making the rest more enticing 100 Grails is at least the equivalent of 4 Orbs, and you get to pick who gets summoned. Assuming a player does a full summon, each unit would cost exactly 4 Orbs and you have no idea who gets summoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeExponents- Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Endriu said: Its either 26 or 46 How? Its flat +2 to all stats for resplendent heroes so that's 10 and S support is 13×2 so that's 26. Oh I guess each month comes with two heroes so yeah, add another 10 and that's 46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeExponents- Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, XRay said: 100 Grails is at least the equivalent of 4 Orbs, and you get to pick who gets summoned. Assuming a player does a full summon, each unit would cost exactly 4 Orbs and you have no idea who gets summoned. But that's only on the first redemption. The value of grails goes down the more you continue to redeem in that case so it's hard to equate to orbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriu Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, XRay said: 100 Grails is at least the equivalent of 4 Orbs, and you get to pick who gets summoned. Assuming a player does a full summon, each unit would cost exactly 4 Orbs and you have no idea who gets summoned. I wouldn't use this math. A grail copy can even cost 500 grails. So 500 grails would also be the equivalent of 4 orbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landmaster Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said: 100 grail isn't even enough to get you anything past the first copy and 10 orbs ain't even a full summon. Talk about highway robbery. Instead of locking 36 points of stats behind it they should have focused on making the rest more enticing 10 Orbs is $5, you're getting that and all of what I've mentioned (which includes 2 5* units). $10 is far from unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Just now, NegativeExponents- said: But that's only on the first redemption. The value of grails goes down the more you continue to redeem in that case so it's hard to equate to orbs. 1 minute ago, Endriu said: I wouldn't use this math. A grail copy can even cost 500 grails. So 500 grails would also be the equivalent of 4 orbs The value does go down, but you have perfect control over who you summon. This is in contrast to Orbs which gives you very little control. It does not make a perfect comparison, but if you try to snipe for Fury fodder for example, it would probably take way more than 20 Orbs on red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriu Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 But speaking of grails and resources. They are added to the monthly promo packs. Never heard people had a problem with those. If the pass comprised of units without stat increases but with skins (stat increases could be made available for everybody) and lots of non-orbs goodies (in order not to kill the minnow/dolphin revenue) like grails, feathers and the like, the pass would become optional and people would evaluate it and decide to buy it or not. No shitstorms. And if they announced such a pass with qol for everybody during anniversary people would be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriu Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, XRay said: The value does go down, but you have perfect control over who you summon. This is in contrast to Orbs which gives you very little control. It does not make a perfect comparison, but if you try to snipe for Fury fodder for example, it would probably take way more than 20 Orbs on red. I wouldn't snipe for 3-4* fodder. I guess not too many people do it. However, I must admit that I consider grails to be quite valueable, given the fact a tt unit costs 2700 to max. It's definitely a goodie people wouldn't mind having more of, especially new players. Same goes for other gated resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeExponents- Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Landmaster said: 10 Orbs is $5, you're getting that and all of what I've mentioned (which includes 2 5* units). $10 is far from unreasonable. I'm seeing a unit that should have dropped rarity to 4* maybe even 3* long time ago and a straight up 3* unit. $6 is 10 orbs and not $5 and unlike this is supposed to hook you on a monthly purchase. It could stand to give you a bit more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/9/2020 at 3:15 PM, AvatarofDiscord said: What exactly is bad about the pass You're asking answers The most unnerving thing for me is the fact that auto start is in a BOATLOAD of other gacha games and they're acting as if it's some brand new thing they invented that no one has ever thought of before! Some games just give you tickets you can use on maps you've cleared before so this way you just get whatever rewards you get for clearing it without actually having to manually clear it or even auto battle... A feature like this was something I always thought they should add but dad gummit It makes me so fricking P'd off you dont even understand 👀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriu Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Arcanite said: You're asking answers The most unnerving thing for me is the fact that auto start is in a BOATLOAD of other gacha games and they're acting as if it's some brand new thing they invented that no one has ever thought of before! Some games just give you tickets you can use on maps you've cleared before so this way you just get whatever rewards you get for clearing it without actually having to manually clear it or even auto battle... A feature like this was something I always thought they should add but dad gummit It makes me so fricking P'd off you dont even understand 👀 Lmao you are so on point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Endriu said: Lmao you are so on point It's such a robbery it isn't even funny And yet all we can do is complain or laugh Meh... Gacha games suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landmaster Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said: I'm seeing a unit that should have dropped rarity to 4* maybe even 3* long time ago and a straight up 3* unit. $6 is 10 orbs and not $5 and unlike this is supposed to hook you on a monthly purchase. It could stand to give you a bit more Maybe you don't see value in Lyn and Cordelia, some people do, so the Pass is worth the purchase for them considering everything else they're getting on top of that~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriu Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Arcanite said: It's such a robbery it isn't even funny And yet all we can do is complain or laugh Meh... Gacha games suck We can decide not to buy it I think it's a little bit funny actually - but not in a good sense, more like it's so stupid that it's funny. But yeah, consumers are getting more and more complacent these days and just buy into anything. Corporate thinkers often draw the entitlement card but even those understand you cannot do this in this context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriu Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Landmaster said: Maybe you don't see value in Lyn and Cordelia, some people do, so the Pass is worth the purchase for them considering everything else they're getting on top of that~ I would rather view the units as the bonus as they rotate while EVERYTHING else stays the same. Cordelia you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeExponents- Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Landmaster said: Maybe you don't see value in Lyn and Cordelia, some people do, so the Pass is worth the purchase for them considering everything else they're getting on top of that~ It's less of me "not seeing value" in one of my favorite characters getting a complete art and dialogue overhaul and more "I don't think the benefits justify supporting shitty practices" Edited February 10, 2020 by NegativeExponents- justify makes more sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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