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We can all agree the FEH pass blows right?

But I think we should at the very least acknowledge why it is bad, and form complaints to IS/Nintendo Mobile about why it’s bad

So I got two questions for everyone

1: What things should have been in the pass that would make it worth getting, but at the same time not implement a P2W scenario like with Early Life SW Battlefield 2
2: What exactly is bad about the pass, and what changes would you make to it in any way?

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Ads for it are overly intrusive, and it includes too many things that should be available to everyone. Make the Undo, Auto-Start, stat boosts, and Summoner Support changes available to everyone and hide references to it from regular gameplay and I'm fine with it. This would leave it as skins, quests, and a free copy of the units with the skins, and they could increase the quest rewards to make up for that.

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1. If it was purely for stuff like skins/maybe a free 1st-gen 5* merge, I'd be a lot happier.  Probably wouldn't appeal to the whales, as they most likely have their stuff merged up.  But if Dissidia taught me anything, it's that people will pay a lot for an alternate character appearance.
2. But as it stands, there's way too much of "you need this thing to get stuff", and it's annoying as all hell.  Like, why NOT allow everyone to have three summoner supports?

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2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

1. If it was purely for stuff like skins/maybe a free 1st-gen 5* merge, I'd be a lot happier.  Probably wouldn't appeal to the whales, as they most likely have their stuff merged up.  But if Dissidia taught me anything, it's that people will pay a lot for an alternate character appearance.
2. But as it stands, there's way too much of "you need this thing to get stuff", and it's annoying as all hell.  *Like, why NOT allow everyone to have three summoner supports?*

Didn’t Garons Concubine wars teach us anything about multiple supports xD (jk)

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The biggest issue I have with it is that most of it seems to be quality of life. I'd understand if it was just different skins/bonus 2 stats, and even increased summoner support, but the other ones I don't understand. I'd personally just have the extra art, merge, etc, but let the other features be free. Maybe take away the stat boosts entirely, make the undo pass-only, then leave the auto start and support for free. Then, keep the extra art and stuff for the pass as well.

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Skins and guaranteed characters would be all it needs to be good but not P2W. Lower the price though or increase the amount of orbs from quest though.

The extended summoner support and stat boosts should've 100% been free. Stats and other character improvements should never be gated by a paywall.

The undo and auto start should be free too although personally I'm not too bothered by not having auto start since I never use auto as the AI is too dumb. I can't remember if undo works in PvP modes either but if it doesn't I'm also not bothered by that.

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I think the hate is a bit overblown because it was high time for new QoL updates, and they're all gated by the pass. Had there been even more updates and that they were split evenly between Pass and F2P, it'd feel like all players are getting something rather than just the whales. And the constant reminders of what you get with the pass while playing the game normally really makes it feel like the haves vs have nots situation that IS has created.

The pass also seems completely not worth the money to me, but there's no arguing what this or that virtual thing for your virtual game is really worth to some folks. 

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Quote

We can all agree the FEH pass blows right?

No, I like it~

I think the Pass is fine, I don't see anything P2W about it. The only thing "bad" about it is I think they should not show up all over the game for people who don't have or want it and could misclick into buying it. Just leave it in the Shop menu~

Other than that, it's fine, IMO~


 

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43 minutes ago, AvatarofDiscord said:

We can all agree the FEH pass blows right?

No, because a thing called opinions exists. Don’t assume everyone is willing to be on board with this ultimately pointless outrage campaign because I certainly have no interest in it.

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43 minutes ago, AvatarofDiscord said:

1: What things should have been in the pass that would make it worth getting, but at the same time not implement a P2W scenario like with Early Life SW Battlefield 2

The unit itself, outfit, and resources from Quests were fine. Paying for extra Heroes and resources is no different from Special Orb packs. I have no issue with charging for cosmetics since they do not affect the core gameplay.

44 minutes ago, AvatarofDiscord said:

2: What exactly is bad about the pass, and what changes would you make to it in any way?

The stat boosts, Expanded Summoner Supports, Re-Act, and Auto-Start. Quality of life improvements should all be free in my opinion.

However, if they really want players to pay for quality of life improvements, they should be one time purchases. In this case, they did make stat boosts to be one time purchases, so that is fine. If they want to monetize Expanded Summoner Supports, Re-Act, and Auto-Start, I would turn these into one time purchases, like Barracks expansions and My Castle's EXP boost.

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  1. At the absolute bare minimum, the alternate character appearances, and the 2 extra summoner supports. The former is a very obvious thing to put behind a paywall. The latter is, in my opinion, absolutely worth being a “premium” benefit (though obviously, I wouldn’t complain if it was free). That said, none of the stuff in the Feh Pass being locked to the Feh Pass really bothers me.
  2. The only thing I actively dislike about it is the fact that it’s so blatantly in your face. It’s going to take a while to get used to seeing a bunch of quests that I can’t actually claim. That’s the only place where it bothers me, that I’ve seen. Everything else I can live with.

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I dont see anything P2W in the FEH Pass currently.

However what i think they should have done:
For all Players:
- Rewind
- Auto-Battle function
- Stat boost to the Resplendant Hero

For FEH Pass users:
- Summoners support for 2 additional characters seems fine
- Cosmetic change/Resplendend Hero
- Allways double SP and EXP (quadruple during weekends)
- allways double Hero merits
- The quests
 

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Yeah, I'd say the QoL things are the main problem. Otherwise, Feh Pass seems fine to me.

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I'm honestly not sure what would be "acceptable benefits" for a subscription system, but here are some things they could've done to annoy less people at the very least:

1) NOT ANNOUNCE IT RIGHT AT THE THIRD ANNIVERSARY.
Like holy shit, this is the big one. They spent more time talking about the stupid Feh Pass during the third anniversary Feh Channel more than anything else. Add on to the fact that the rest of the anniversary itself was underwhelming (yay for more random bullshit where you can't choose who you want, or even the color you want, and if you miraculously get what you want you still may get a shit nature) and a freebie system that might be worse than Find-and-Vote. If they made the rest of the third anniversary good, like letting everyone choose the seasonal unit they wanted with a neutral nature, and actually letting people choose one freebie they want without "the whole fanbase votes the top eight and then we get a voting gauntlet" thing, and rerunning the seasonal units from the first two years as well and giving us our choice, with a bit more stuff to do during the anniversary, maybe then it would've gone over a little better? But how they actually rolled out the Feh Pass announcement? Not good at all.

2) Not shoving the Feh Pass in our faces at every opportunity.
As someone who did not get the pass, I don't want to (and shouldn't even be able to) have the quests for the pass be visible in my fountain. I shouldn't be able to complete the quests, making it so that it looks like I have rewards to collect when I really don't. I also don't want to see advertisements for the Feh Pass in the training tower or Tempest Trials telling me that I can get auto-start if I get Feh Pass. I don't like having an option at the bottom of the "interact with heroes" page telling me I can change my characters' appearance when I clearly can't because I didn't buy the pass. This is especially annoying for me because I'm used to clicking the bottommost option, which used to be for hero merit, and just getting this useless page instead. The way Heroes is being an obnoxious beggar and shoving the stupid pass in the faces of non-buyers is a really big problem because it's actually intrusive to one's experience.

Whether QoL features and the bonus skins/stat boosts should be paid or not-paid, I'm not going to get into that discussion because I think that delves deeper into the nature of gacha itself and micro transactions in video games, which I'm not going to get into. However, if Heroes wants to implement a Feh Pass, then maybe don't do it during the third anniversary which in itself is kind of underwhelming and especially don't shove it in the faces of people who don't want to get it at like every opportunity?

Edited by Sunwoo

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30 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

2) Not shoving the Feh Pass in our faces at every opportunity.
As someone who did not get the pass, I don't want to (and shouldn't even be able to) have the quests for the pass be visible in my fountain. I shouldn't be able to complete the quests, making it so that it looks like I have rewards to collect when I really don't. I also don't want to see advertisements for the Feh Pass in the training tower or Tempest Trials telling me that I can get auto-start if I get Feh Pass. I don't like having an option at the bottom of the "interact with heroes" page telling me I can change my characters' appearance when I clearly can't because I didn't buy the pass. This is especially annoying for me because I'm used to clicking the bottommost option, which used to be for hero merit, and just getting this useless page instead. The way Heroes is being an obnoxious beggar and shoving the stupid pass in the faces of non-buyers is a really big problem because it's actually intrusive to one's experience.

Oh yeah, this too. Totally. I'm annoyed as well that some of the Feh Pass stuff is being shoved in my face like this.

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No, the concept behind Feh Pass was okay, but the execution could have used significant improvements.

The biggest issue with Feh Pass is not the features in it, but the intrusive advertisement for it throughout the game. There are better ways to make players know what they are missing out on without being this overly in their face.

As for the features themselves, Re-Act and Auto-Start are fully quality of life features that don't give players much of an advantage and should probably be taken out of the Feh Pass and made into features available to everyone else.

The remaining three features, Resplendent Heroes, bonus quests, and increased Summoner Support slots, I think are all fair to remain as part of Feh Pass. Even with only these features, I think the pricing is fine.

I think the marketing people at Nintendo/IS were too worried about Feh Pass not being worth the cost that they tacked on the quality of life features to it despite the fact that I think a lot of the Feh Pass purchasers would still have bought it even with the quality of life features given out for free. In my own opinion, at least, I think the Resplendent Heroes, bonus quests, and Summoner Support slots are already worth the price.

 

As for purchasing of Resplendent Heroes after their run is over, I think any price over $3 would be too high, considering the need to have Feh Pass active as a prerequisite. If Resplendent Heroes were made available to non-subscribers, I can see them going up to $5, but I don't foresee them going back on this decision. But we'll have to wait and see.

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I mean there's an entire Twitter account dedicated to tweeting things cheaper than a year of FEH pass that also include much more bang for your buck, including full FE games with DLC, passes to the FE Expo, a Nintendo Switch Online membership, and FE Figmas, so I'd say the price is a big issue. What they're offering is worth $3 to $5 USD per month max, not $10.

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The idea behind Feh Pass is decent I can see a subscription model working for Heroes. But launched in a poor matter. The aggressive push into the game turned me off both inn and out of the game. First appearing in an anniversary event is not reading the room. Even worse when divine codes is coming out next month yet this got into the game in a week.

  Perhaps early access to divine codes, or double hm gain can be an incentive to get more player on. Or non subscribers can choose one resplendent Heroes each month while Feh Pass can have all.

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17 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

I mean there's an entire Twitter account dedicated to tweeting things cheaper than a year of FEH pass that also include much more bang for your buck, including full FE games with DLC, passes to the FE Expo, a Nintendo Switch Online membership, and FE Figmas, so I'd say the price is a big issue. What they're offering is worth $3 to $5 USD per month max, not $10.

This is definitely funny.

What I also find funny is something that isn't tweetable by that account: "Buying enough orbs to have a >75%* chance of getting a specific desired character from a banner".

*number varies by what colour you're trying to get and what type of banner it is

 

I don't think the FEH pass is itself a terrible idea; in fact, I welcome any move that pushes the game's revenue towards any source that isn't a form of gambling. But some of the specifics like putting minor quality of life upgrades behind it, and the way it advertises itself, are misfires. So while I definitely find the hate overblown, I don't feel all that much sympathy for the developers either.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf

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Oh yeah, I agree that how they marketed it was pretty crap. It is okay to remind your customers about purchasing a product within reason, but annoying them multiple times a day via quest notifications when they play the game is a big no-no in my opinion.

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24 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, the concept behind Feh Pass was okay, but the execution could have used significant improvements.

The biggest issue with Feh Pass is not the features in it, but the intrusive advertisement for it throughout the game. There are better ways to make players know what they are missing out on without being this overly in their face.

As for the features themselves, Re-Act and Auto-Start are fully quality of life features that don't give players much of an advantage and should probably be taken out of the Feh Pass and made into features available to everyone else.

The remaining three features, Resplendent Heroes, bonus quests, and increased Summoner Support slots, I think are all fair to remain as part of Feh Pass. Even with only these features, I think the pricing is fine.

I think the marketing people at Nintendo/IS were too worried about Feh Pass not being worth the cost that they tacked on the quality of life features to it despite the fact that I think a lot of the Feh Pass purchasers would still have bought it even with the quality of life features given out for free. In my own opinion, at least, I think the Resplendent Heroes, bonus quests, and Summoner Support slots are already worth the price.

 

As for purchasing of Resplendent Heroes after their run is over, I think any price over $3 would be too high, considering the need to have Feh Pass active as a prerequisite. If Resplendent Heroes were made available to non-subscribers, I can see them going up to $5, but I don't foresee them going back on this decision. But we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this whole post. The idea of the Feh Pass itself is fine, I'm totally cool with it. But the execution was poor and Re-Act and Auto-Start should be free features. Sunwoo is probably right that it would've been better off NOT being announced at the anniversary too.

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SWTOR had this annoying thing too where QoL features as basic as extra hotbars were locked behind a paywall. Thing is though, with that game at least once you paid once, you became a "preferred" customer and got to keep the core QoL improvements even after reverting to F2P. Congratulations Nintendo on beating EA for cynicism, almost like you have no faith in your own product to perform without these inducements.

The pricing thing is pretty incidental to me. Compared to the price of any other thing besides the BK pack, it's probably the cheapest you've ever been able to get stuff. If we knew back then that BK would be obtainable by other means (grails) then they'd even be equivalent if you reliably got three heroes per cycle. Thing is though, I don't think it's going to convince people who don't attach any monetary value to orbs to change their minds - the orb inclusion isn't a meaningful value-add to me.

Now I'm flat out not going to buy the pass until, at minimum, they backflip the QoL changes. But even then, it really feels like the units are subsiding the cost of orbs. The way the pricing structure is, it doesn't feel like "get these cool things and we'll throw in some extra orbs as a sweetener". No, it still feels like specifically buying orbs (and some feathers, sorta). I observe that a fairly common comparison people have been making is to the price of a cup of coffee, so let's make a coffee analogy. The FEH pass could be a good deal where you get a cup of coffee and a croissant (or some other pastry of your choice) for a reduced price. But I quit caffeine years ago, the coffee has no value to me, so for a customer like me, fundamentally the croissant alone needs to be worth the total price of admission.

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Oh yeah, I'd be okay if the QoL things were just a one time payment. My color by number app has a one time payment that lets you remove ads and have infinite hints. Re-Act, Auto-Start, and probably the extra summoner supports could've just been a one-time payment too. A small price though. Happy Color's one-time payment is just $4.

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2 hours ago, Book Bro said:

What they're offering is worth $3 to $5 USD per month max, not $10.

What they're offering is worth at minimum $5.20 because it contains 10 orbs and that's the minimum price of 10 orbs.

If you buy the subscription and then cancel it before it renews, then you can get 15 orbs, which worth at least $7.80.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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I think the interesting thing about this whole to do is, I don't personally think IntSys could have done this anyway without people being mad.

If they brought the quality of life things (ie:auto start, the turnwheel etc) to everyone, but then included, say more orbs, more SP events, more free summons tickets - something to "justify" the cost to have people subscribed (and more importantly remain subscribed), people would kvetch how those offerings should be available to everyone too. Personally - I don't have a problem with FEH creating a subscription/pass thing to make money. I wouldn't have this issue if i didn't subscribe because i wasn't sure if i was, but the fact that I get some heroes, etc - that was enough for me, and I personally like supporting a game I play every day for hours  and i want it to do well. 
 

I've contended i don't personally think it should be in your face. "THIS IS THE PASS, THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE MISSING."  i think there are other ways to advertise (and a bit more subtly) and intsys missed the mark there.  but i'm also not blaming them FOR advertising. 

honestly (like i said) i would change it that everyone gets what they are complaining about - and then give more free summons etc maybe another free 5* for those who want to pay. but i will also point out - i don't think i've heard people complain about not having an auto-auto batttler, or a turnwheel function in FEH until they realized they wouldn't have it.  I also find it interesting for a lot of people who wouldn't pay at all (regardless) are offering prices of what is fair. but if you wouldn't pay at all, then theoretically it shouldn't matter, right? esp. for those who are paying don't have an issue with the price at all.

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