FEH Pass and what went wrong

[Landmaster]

1 minute ago, NegativeExponents- said:

It's less of me "not seeing value" in one of my favorite characters getting a complete art and dialogue overhaul and more "I don't think the benefits outweigh supporting shitty practices"

And you can totally feel that way, but the Pass is good value for what it offers. Giving out any more and they would just raise the price.

[Hilda]

2 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

It's less of me "not seeing value" in one of my favorite characters getting a complete art and dialogue overhaul and more "I don't think the benefits justify supporting shitty practices"

whats the better practice? haveing Resplendant Lyn be on a banner where you spent 100 Orbs to get 1 Copy for the boost and the different attire? (because thats totally the worst case)

[Arcanite]

20 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

10 Orbs is $5, you're getting that and all of what I've mentioned (which includes 2 5* units). $10 is far from unreasonable.

what planet do you come from

 

Nintendo Switch online is 20 bucks a year and we get a pretty good amount of "free" NES and SNES games

If you had FEH pass for a year you could buy Switch Online for yourself and 5 other people

Or you could buy 800 chicken nuggets

Both of these are definitely more worthwhile than FEH pass

To me anyway.... 

They'd make so much more money if they just sold costumes for real money (not orbs) like some other gacha games

And throw in orbs and feathers and grails and all that other extra extra 

7 minutes ago, Endriu said:

We can decide not to buy it

I think it's a little bit funny actually - but not in a good sense, more like it's so stupid that it's funny.

But yeah, consumers are getting more and more complacent these days and just buy into anything. Corporate thinkers often draw the entitlement card but even those understand you cannot do this in this context.

what's funny is that joker Landmaster

What we need to do is at least make auto start free

That's all I'm asking for

I dont even care about anything else tbh

[NegativeExponents-]

Just now, Hilda said:

whats the better practice? haveing Resplendant Lyn be on a banner where you spent 100 Orbs to get 1 Copy for the boost and the different attire? (because thats totally the worst case)

The bad practice isn't giving Lyn an outfit. In fact I think cosmetic changes are one of the best things you could sell. Its tying stats to that outfit that I have issues with

[Landmaster]

2 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

what planet do you come from

 

Nintendo Switch online is 20 bucks a year and we get a pretty good amount of "free" NES and SNES games

If you had FEH pass for a year you could buy Switch Online for yourself and 5 other people

Or you could buy 800 chicken nuggets

Both of these are definitely more worthwhile than FEH pass

To me anyway.... 

They'd make so much more money if they just sold costumes for real money (not orbs) like some other gacha games

And throw in orbs and feathers and grails and all that other extra extra 

 

And if you value what Switch Online offers more then FEH Pass, then you wouldn't buy the FEH Pass

If you value 800 Chicken Nuggets more than FEH Pass, then you wouldn't buy FEH Pass

None of this changes the fact that FEH Pass is a good deal for what it offers 

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, NegativeExponents- said:

The bad practice isn't giving Lyn an outfit. In fact I think cosmetic changes are one of the best things you could sell. Its tying stats to that outfit that I have issues with

I've seen it in other games...

It's an incentive thing 

Not really too egregious since it's on units that have marginally less stats than literally all the new units... and since most of the original units aren't as OP anymore anyway a stat boost wouldn't hurt that much

[Endriu]

Just now, Landmaster said:

And if you value what Switch Online offers more then FEH Pass, then you wouldn't buy the FEH Pass

If you value 800 Chicken Nuggets more than FEH Pass, then you wouldn't buy FEH Pass

None of this changes the fact that FEH Pass is a good deal for what it offers 

Whats good about it? Paying to have an advantage over players who don't?

[Landmaster]

Just now, Endriu said:

Whats good about it? Paying to have an advantage over players who don't?

More Orbs, Grails, Dew, and Paper is never a bad deal. If you like the idea of Resplendent Heroes or the ones available that month, that in itself, is good. Even people who don't spend have said they would be willing to if their favorite character got a Resplendent variation 

[NegativeExponents-]

5 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

I've seen it in other games...

It's an incentive thing 

Not really too egregious since it's on units that have marginally less stats than literally all the new units... and since most of the original units aren't as OP anymore anyway a stat boost wouldn't hurt that much

Examples? I've personally never seen that even in scum like Brave Frontier.

And honestly, I don't think that only because others have done it makes it any better.

Edited February 10, 2020 by NegativeExponents-

[Arcanite]

11 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

And if you value what Switch Online offers more then FEH Pass, then you wouldn't buy the FEH Pass

If you value 800 Chicken Nuggets more than FEH Pass, then you wouldn't buy FEH Pass

None of this changes the fact that FEH Pass is a good deal for what it offers 

actually the Switch online is what I was trying to use as a point against the fact that FEH pass isn't really a good deal for what it offers

That and the auto start thing

Some people complained about Switch online too but it REALLY isn't that bad 

Especially now that we have stuff like yoshi's island and kirby superstar 👀

This is... silly

Spoiler

You're a filthy whale so your opinion doesn't really count anyway

 

@NegativeExponents- Seven Knights has stats attached 

Soul Seeker might not have stats attached but it does have costumes you can buy

 

*Just saying

I dont play those games anymore

I dont want people to think I'm some gacha game obsessed weeb freak

Edited February 10, 2020 by Arcanite

[Endriu]

5 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

More Orbs, Grails, Dew, and Paper is never a bad deal. If you like the idea of Resplendent Heroes or the ones available that month, that in itself, is good. Even people who don't spend have said they would be willing to if their favorite character got a Resplendent variation 

I never said that either. Resources are one thing, locking qol features behind a paywall is discriminating imo, providing better stats is scummy. 

While the deal might actually be decent in the gacha world of exorbitant prices, it is pretty much a scummy, unfair deal which atm is dividing the community. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Endriu

[Landmaster]

4 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

actually the Switch online is what I was trying to use as a point against the fact that FEH pass isn't really a good deal for what it offers

That and the auto start thing

Some people complained about Switch online too but it REALLY isn't that bad 

Especially now that we have stuff like yoshi's island and kirby superstar 👀

This is... silly

  Hide contents

You're a filthy whale so your opinion doesn't really count anyway

 

I wish I was a filthy whale so I could get more HS!Elise merges RN~

3 minutes ago, Endriu said:

I never said that either. Resources are one thing, locking qol features behind a paywall is discriminating imo, providing better stats is scummy. 

While the deal might actually be decent in the gacha world of exorbitant prices, it is pretty much a scummy, unfair deal which atm is dividing the community. 

That depends how you look at it. The extra features are the most irrelevant parts of the Pass, to me. The Mila's Turnwheel is pretty useless and autobattle being 2 less button presses is also pretty meh

[Endriu]

6 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

I wish I was a filthy whale so I could get more HS!Elise merges RN~

That depends how you look at it. The extra features are the most irrelevant parts of the Pass, to me. The Mila's Turnwheel is pretty useless and autobattle being 2 less button presses is also pretty meh

Turnwheel is meh indeed. I don't think auto battle is about button presses. Its about setting it up so you can leave the phone aside and come back after 15 minutes or so and have like 6 tt stages complete. Manually relaunching is meh imo. It's still discriminating. You haven't said anything about the extra stats you get when you pay for it! +10 resplendency stats hurt only those who actually use the unit but 2x summoner support is a big deal imo.

[Arcanite]

17 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

That depends how you look at it. The extra features are the most irrelevant parts of the Pass, to me. The Mila's Turnwheel is pretty useless and autobattle being 2 less button presses is also pretty meh

Then I'd like a 5 page essay on why we should pay 10 bucks for it

Mila's Turnwheel is whatever

The auto start is mostly what grinds my gears... Such a simple feature 

Meh

Y'know... I realized you said the "fact that FEH Pass is a good deal" but I dont really think that's a "fact" as much as an incredibly blind and optimistic way to see it 

Actually, how can you say that it's a good deal if some thing are totally irrelevant to you then 🤔

What if they cut out the extra SS and auto start, give it to us for free, and take the price down to 8 bucks 👀

[Etrurian emperor]

IS being very aggressive with the pass probably made people even harsher on it. An overpriced subscription is common in the mobile market but forcing everyone that didn't buy the pass to see the rewards they would have unlocked if they had just caved in seems a tad much. 

[Landmaster]

17 minutes ago, Endriu said:

Turnwheel is meh indeed. I don't think auto battle is about button presses. Its about setting it up so you can leave the phone aside and come back after 15 minutes or so and have like 6 tt stages complete. Manually relaunching is meh imo. It's still discriminating. You haven't said anything about the extra stats you get when you pay for it! +10 resplendency stats hurt only those who actually use the unit but 2x summoner support is a big deal imo.

I mean, they will stop autobattling when your phone goes to sleep so you still have to sit there and tap on the phone. It's not that big of a difference except when you tap.

I personally don't see +2 extra stats or 3 SS anything that hurts people without the Pass, but that's just me. Most people are not using multiple SS units on the same team.

8 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Then I'd like a 5 page essay on why we should pay 10 bucks for it

Mila's Turnwheel is whatever

The auto start is mostly what grinds my gears... Such a simple feature 

Meh

Y'know... I realized you said the "fact that FEH Pass is a good deal" but I dont really think that's a "fact" as much as an incredibly blind and optimistic way to see it 

Actually, how can you say that it's a good deal if some thing are totally irrelevant to you then 🤔

What if they cut out the extra SS and auto start, give it to us for free, and take the price down to 8 bucks 👀

You shouldn't if you don't find any value in it.

I said "fact" because you get more with that amount than you would get Orbs for the same price. Unless you literally value Orbs as the ultimate currency, the same price in Orbs is not really a better deal.

It's a good deal because they could completely remove the extras and I would still buy it. I find the Quests and Resplendent Heroes a good deal.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Landmaster

[daisy jane]

22 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

I mean, they will stop autobattling when your phone goes to sleep so you still have to sit there and tap on the phone. It's not that big of a difference except when you tap.

I personally don't see +2 extra stats or 3 SS anything that hurts people without the Pass, but that's just me. Most people are not using multiple SS units on the same team.

You shouldn't if you don't find any value in it.

I said "fact" because you get more with that amount than you would get Orbs for the same price. Unless you literally value Orbs as the ultimate currency, the same price in Orbs is not really a better deal.

It's a good deal because they could completely remove the extras and I would still buy it. I find the Quests and Resplendent Heroes a good deal.

that's exactly how i feel. plus i don't feel bad supporting a game i play every day and want to help it succeed. 

[NekoKnight]

6 hours ago, Humanoid said:

The "value" in the included orbs is only relevant an individual if they value the orbs at their nominal price. If the deal instead was $1005 and included a designer handbag with a sticker price of $1000 alongside the Resplendent Heroes I'm not going to think that's a good deal unless I agree that the handbag is worth $1000 and was going to buy it anyway. It's the same with the orbs - I don't value them at the sticker price and would rather just have them removed with a pro-rata reduction in the subscription price.

I don't know how many people are like me. People who are done buying orbs but would be theoretically open to other forms of purchase. But because of what I've described, I don't feel like the Pass is going to be converting very many F2P players into subscribers. $5, no orbs and removal of the QoL restrictions and I might be in.

That's how I feel about it. As a F2P player, I've already decided that the price of orbs is not what I'd be willing to pay, so while they're a nice bonus to the skins, they're not why I'd subscribe to the pass. The orbs are not worth the price even if that's what IS wants to sell them for.

I think it's much better to value the pass on the free units and skins. Lyn is a 5* unit which makes her worth probably 100+ F2P orbs (only relevant if you want Lyn, but it's up to you to decide if you want that month's heroes). Sounds like a good deal to me if you like the characters offered.

I play another gaccha (mostly for collecting characters with log in resources, heh) called Granblue Fantasy and they regularly sell packs for $30 for a full circle pull and a single skin. I think people underestimate how much people will pay for skins, forget the summoning currency.

 

 

 

[Arcanite]

I think it's more that the simple changes that the people who would be willing to pay the 10 bucks for a skin would get are the features that others refuse to pay 10 bucks for 

This is injustice

Sacrilege to the highest!

How dare these disgusting developers hold back changes that would've been nice 3 years ago!

I DIDNT SPEND A SINGLE DIME ON THIS GAME FOR THIS

Spoiler

 

On the other hand...

Now we're gonna start seeing those people who still claim F2P while having bought the pass at least once 

 

Itd probably be easier to understand how far the money goes from buying the pass if I ever spent money but eh

I'm not going to degrade myself

Edited February 11, 2020 by Arcanite

[TheNiddo]

To me, what went wrong was the stat boosts and extra summon supports, don't care about the QoL things really. That is a statistical advantage that F2P or even minnows cannot ever reach. The extra summon supports are huge for AR-D, and the other stat boosts won't stay on Gen 1 forever. Heck they even mentioned units like Death Knight in the video, clearly they intend to move past that at some point.

If the pass doesn't do great that's probably how they'll try to drum up sales: imagine what would happen to sales if say, Sword!Reinhardt or Sonya were to appear on the pass. Don't have to go for the newest gen to start breaking the game, just pick some units who are just outside of being the best of their class. Those two benefits are undeniably P2W: its an advantage that nobody else can match without also paying no matter now "minor" they may appear to be. 

You want an FEH Pass that isn't P2W, but is still enticing? Focus on making it "pay to experiment" if you would. Consider the following at the same price point:

- Resplendent Heroes: new artwork for heroes like what we got now, just no stat boosts tied to them. Still get the extra copy of the hero in question, same rate as now, etc. 
- Number of orbs is the same, include 20k feathers, 150 Grails, 150 Sacred Coins, 200 Divine Dew, 80 Papers, 50 of each Dragonflower
- a copy of a 5* unit from the previous month (generally either the best one of the lot or one with a lot of great fodder), and an old 5* unit from Gen 1 (for those still trying to merge up some older heroes or want to collect as many heroes as possible). Seasonals/Duo Heroes can show up for these two freebie units, legendaries/mythics cannot. 
- 10 4* Manuals of common fodder, along with one 5* Manual of a unit with rare fodder. The 10 4* are random for each player from a pool of known common fodder units (Barst, Cain, Hinata, Subaki, etc etc), the 5* Manual is the same for everyone. 
- The current lot of QoL improvements/options, two free summons on each banner instead of one, an extra 150 slots in the barracks, an extra 20 friends slots, 2 additional team slots
- Permeant double SP earn rate (doesn't stack with other bonuses to SP earn rate)

Nothing mentioned is a statistical advantage that other players cannot achieve. It allows for more freedom to experiment and getting optimized builds faster, but the cap is the same cap as everyone else. Its enticing to newer/F2P players because suddenly their options blow wide open if they go for the pass, its still enticing to whales because they still run into Grail/Dew/Dragonflower limits, everyone would like more barrack spaces or faster SP earn rate. And of course new artwork everyone goes nuts for. 

[XRay]

44 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

The extra summon supports are huge for AR-D

Aether Raids defense and the AI in general cannot use Summoner Support. Summoner Support only works for units under a player's active control.

[AvatarofDiscord]

2 hours ago, TheNiddo said:

To me, what went wrong was the stat boosts and extra summon supports, don't care about the QoL things really. That is a statistical advantage that F2P or even minnows cannot ever reach. The extra summon supports are huge for AR-D, and the other stat boosts won't stay on Gen 1 forever. Heck they even mentioned units like Death Knight in the video, clearly they intend to move past that at some point.

Actually that was more of a gag at the voice actors characters

Fehnix is voiced by Patrick Seitz, the same person who voiced the Death Knight

[Lemmy]

Part of me thinks if they made the more lackluster features free, and left the paid portions for unit + costume + misc currency then people wouldn't have been as upset. The value is similar Black Knight and people generally liked that, although the temporary part is annoying too.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, TheNiddo said:

Heck they even mentioned units like Death Knight in the video, clearly they intend to move past that at some point.

It was a voice actor joke in both English and Japanese. All of the characters mentioned are voiced by the same voice actor as Fehnix.

In the English video, Hector, Sirius, Brady, and Death Knight are all voiced by Patrick Seitz. In the Japanese video, Saber, Niles, Navarre, and Lon'qu are all voiced by Koyasu Takehito.

[TheNiddo]

7 hours ago, XRay said:

Aether Raids defense and the AI in general cannot use Summoner Support. Summoner Support only works for units under a player's active control.

AR-O then. Still massive. 

And didn't know the VA thing, cool. Still fully expecting them to move on from Gen 1 faster than people are expecting. They kinda did that with weapon refines, I 'm not sure they're going to be that slow with the Pass characters. Gotta go for characters who will sell and lets face it, Barst or Gwen aren't going to sell as much as Dimitri.