Jump to content

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, TheNiddo said:

AR-O then. Still massive. 

And didn't know the VA thing, cool. Still fully expecting them to move on from Gen 1 faster than people are expecting. They kinda did that with weapon refines, I 'm not sure they're going to be that slow with the Pass characters. Gotta go for characters who will sell and lets face it, Barst or Gwen aren't going to sell as much as Dimitri. 

+2 to all stats on Dimitri for paying players only is something they need to stay far away from for a long time if they don't want to drive away all the free players. There are plenty of exciting early characters to hold them over for a while at this rate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a now f2p (haven't spent a dime since the BK bundle 2 years ago), this pass is objectively the best pack-per-month in terms of what it dishes out. IMO, even if it was just the orbs and the 2 character skins, it is insanely worth it, rivaling the BK bundle which was $5 for one 5* and orbs/etc.

The precedence of locking QoL behind a paywall leaves a horrible taste in my mouth though, even if I don't actually care about most of those paywalled mechanics.

The only thing I'm sad about missing out on is the triple Summoner Support, I couldn't care less about the orbs/codes/grails/etc that spenders get, spenders do deserve to get more resources. Triple SS on the other hand would make AR offense even easier than before.

All in all, the only thing that might get me to cave and buy once is if Eliwood gets a gorgeous Resplendent skin, I refuse to invest in the principle of continuous subscriptions for gachas, so I wouldn't ever renew. I'd gladly pay $10 for a permanent triple SS though, if that was an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am mostly indifferent to FEH pass, the orbs are so few that I can't be bothered and the extra resources dont entice me, resplendent heroes are an interesting idea especially if my favorites are included, I spent 3 years with no returning to the previous turn and no auto battle and damit I'll spend the next 3 years doing the same (NB4 IS offeres them to us as a peace offering), one summoner support is plenty for me, no, these will not make me buy FEH pass, because it's not about the features and I'm not afraid to spend money. 

Let it be known, IS, you will never make a cent off me using heroes, you hear? You're gonna have to find your minnows some place else, because you have sought out purchasers in the darkest of depths, there are only leeches here, I refused your BK pack and have only grown stronger than you can possibly imagine. 

If they add resplendent myrrh, mist, micaiah, or god forbid sothis, I will suffer beyond all measure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Lemmy said:

Part of me thinks if they made the more lackluster features free, and left the paid portions for unit + costume + misc currency then people wouldn't have been as upset. The value is similar Black Knight and people generally liked that, although the temporary part is annoying too.

The BK thing is a one-and-done deal, which is why I didn't find it as offensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/9/2020 at 12:15 PM, AvatarofDiscord said:

1: What things should have been in the pass that would make it worth getting, but at the same time not implement a P2W scenario like with Early Life SW Battlefield 2
2: What exactly is bad about the pass, and what changes would you make to it in any way?

I actually sent IS feedback on some things already. Basically, I'm fine with the pass existing. What I don't like is that it's the difference between possible and impossible as opposed to the easy way or the hard way. At least in the case of Resplendent Heroes, I think that things as they are inside the pass is fine. However, I don't think that this should be the ONLY way to get them. If you're willing to do the extra work (fulfilling certain quests or maybe even side stories to earn resplendent items which can transform the base unit into the resplendent version) then you should be able to earn your resplendent heroes. In this case, you'd need to earn an item and have already summoned the base hero. That way, it's a reasonable enough amount of work to still make the pass appealing (where you just get the resplendent hero as a freebie), but it makes it so that the resplendent heroes aren't flat-out impossible to get for non-pass holders who maybe can't afford to pay $10/month.

Edit: Other things (like orbs/feathers/etc) are already "work to get," so I don't think that's as big a deal. And features (such as auto-start) are also inherently "work to get" (by manually starting battles yourself.)

Edited by Mercakete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the pass being p2w is really up for debate when you clearly get exclusive gameplay advantages by buying it. Depending on if you use them or not, the exclusive +2 stats to certain units can be a big boost. I use Cordelia already in AR, so +2 attack and speed would make her even better, and I see 2 more S supports constantly being undervalued by people for how strong that is to have for AR and even other competitive modes. (3/4 of your arena team S supported for easier win streaks sure sounds nice) The other stuff I don't really mind, even if QoL features should have been free. Worth noting that I hadn't even thought how the auto grind setting would let people spam to the top ranks of TT extremely easily. So while that's just feathers, even TT ranking now has a paid advantage..

Really, even worse to me than the pass itself might be the implementation. Besides hijacking the anniversary celebration to try and sell it to us, the intrusive reminders for it all over in-game and the quests you can never claim which it dangles in your face forever is frankly disgusting. Rather than encourage me to help Feh's declining sales it just pushes me away from supporting this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interestingly enough, its actually having a heavy impact on Tempest Trials for those who try to get the highest rankings. To quote the topic from GameFAQs:

Quote

I was going to go for top 1k since I have an extreme potion glut. I've done this a few times in the past and it's not undoable, but jesus christ this time is just on another level. at 117k and normally this would have me pretty firmly in top 5 or 600 at this point in the tempest's duration but I haven't even broken 1200 now. my last couple stamina potions have increased my rank by less than 100 combined

Other people are chiming in noticing the same thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alkaid said:

I don't think the pass being p2w is really up for debate when you clearly get exclusive gameplay advantages by buying it.
 

It depends on whether those advantages are necessary in order to achieve the win condition. For example, merges increase the maximum score you can get. Consistently staying in the highest tier is impossible without merges and high BST units and legendaries, and on that front you simply can’t compete on a f2p budget.

While merges give you more stars AND increase your score threshold, the pass just gives you more stats. If you don’t pay, you can still ”win”, it’s just more difficult. So the pass is p2mietw, not p2w.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

It depends on whether those advantages are necessary in order to achieve the win condition. For example, merges increase the maximum score you can get. Consistently staying in the highest tier is impossible without merges and high BST units and legendaries, and on that front you simply can’t compete on a f2p budget.

While merges give you more stars AND increase your score threshold, the pass just gives you more stats. If you don’t pay, you can still ”win”, it’s just more difficult. So the pass is p2mietw, not p2w.

 

P2W means pay to have a statistical advantage that non-payers cannot reach, not "pay to beat 100% of people who haven't also paid". 

Do you have a statistical cap advantage by buying the pass, yes or no? If yes, its P2W. The only time P2W gets murky on if its P2W or not is if it doesn't increase the statistical cap on units/w/e the game in particular uses but significantly increases the resource rate. Like once it starts hitting double the resource rate then yeah its probably P2W depending on the game type. Whenever its a flat stat bonus on top of the normal limit its instantly P2W. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

It depends on whether those advantages are necessary in order to achieve the win condition. For example, merges increase the maximum score you can get. Consistently staying in the highest tier is impossible without merges and high BST units and legendaries, and on that front you simply can’t compete on a f2p budget.

While merges give you more stars AND increase your score threshold, the pass just gives you more stats. If you don’t pay, you can still ”win”, it’s just more difficult. So the pass is p2mietw, not p2w.

 

You could have equally strong units to what whales can get with enough f2p dedication and luck. Now there's an actual paid barrier to the strongest some units can be, and while you have access to 1 S support to make an effectively +15 unit paying people can have 3. And in AR where more than being score sticks matters for your units, that extra performance advantage is definitely a big deal. Paying for an exclusive advantage is exactly what paying to win is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

You could have equally strong units to what whales can get with enough f2p dedication and luck.
 

Having a smaller budget does not increase my luck, and all the dedication in the world doesn’t mean anything when it takes half a year’s worth of free orbs to +10 a single exclusive unit. I always have the option to make my team stronger and higher scoring by spending orbs.

25 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Now there's an actual paid barrier to the strongest some units can be,
 

There always has been since launch, when it was possible to buy enough orbs to +10 as many units as you need.

25 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

. Paying for an exclusive advantage is exactly what paying to win is.

An exclusive advantage does not mean you automatically win. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheNiddo said:

P2W means pay to have a statistical advantage that non-payers cannot reach, not "pay to beat 100% of people who haven't also paid". 

"Pay to win" does not have a standardized meaning yet. Some people consider the "win" to mean "have an advantage" whereas others use it to mean "have an overwhelming advantage".

Either way, I consider it to me more of a buzz word to get people's attention than anything else and don't use it because of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Having a smaller budget does not increase my luck, and all the dedication in the world doesn’t mean anything when it takes half a year’s worth of free orbs to +10 a single exclusive unit. I always have the option to make my team stronger and higher scoring by spending orbs.

There always has been since launch, when it was possible to buy enough orbs to +10 as many units as you need.

An exclusive advantage does not mean you automatically win. 

There are f2p players like Akariss that are dedicated and retain top tier in all modes despite being f2p. I wouldn't call that way of playing fun for most, but it's proven doable. And believe me, I know what bad luck is in this game, but that doesn't change that it's possible and been done.

A whale could +10 units easier but never were those units simply unachievable to a f2p like resplendent-boosted units are now.

As Niddo said, it does not necessarily mean you automatically win over all non-paying players. But exclusive stat advantages f2p players cannot even access and such is exactly within the realm of p2w. Really, you can argue whaling in general is p2w as well, going by a looser definition like Ice Dragon mentions. But the pass definitely fits under either way. You are literally paying to have inaccessibly better units than people who don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm probably repeating a lot of what was already said, but I figure I should give my two cents.

The +2 stats for the Resplendent Heroes, the QoL changes, and the extra Summoner supports should have absolutely all been completely free, or at least a one-time purchase. The Resplendent outfits and the quests should have been the paid material. Now, since it's all paid, it gives Feh Pass subscribers a huge advantage for feather grinding in things like Tempest Trials, as well as a big advantage with the increased stats for heroes; we've already seen how big the stat increase is for Cordelia. The extra supports would help a LOT in Arena and AR, but now only some people will get that benefit, giving yet another advantage. Not cool.

Edited by Fire Emblem Fan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

The +2 stats for the Resplendent Heroes, the QoL changes, and the extra Summoner supports should have absolutely all been completely free, or at least a one-time purchase.

+2 stats on Resplendent Heroes are already a one-time purchase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

There are f2p players like Akariss that are dedicated and retain top tier in all modes despite being f2p. I wouldn't call that way of playing fun for most, but it's proven doable. And believe me, I know what bad luck is in this game, but that doesn't change that it's possible and been done.
 

I take it back, dedication does make a difference. That said, he’d be able to score even higher if he did whale.

1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

A whale could +10 units easier but never were those units simply unachievable to a f2p like resplendent-boosted units are now.

I see. I thought you were talking about the summoner support for some reason.

1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

As Niddo said, it does not necessarily mean you automatically win over all non-paying players.

Then you’re not paying to win, you’re paying for exclusive advantages.

Advantages such as Resplendent Heroes and extra summoner supports are not necessarily overwhelming, the way a higher score threshold is. 

1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

But the pass definitely fits under either way. You are literally paying to have inaccessibly better units than people who don't.

One can only says it definitely fits is if, like a higher score threshold, it increases your ability to automatically win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Then you’re not paying to win, you’re paying for exclusive advantages.

Money can't make up for lack of brainpower sadly.

6 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

One can only says it definitely fits is if, like a higher score threshold, it increases your ability to automatically win.

I don't get this obsession with automatically winning. I'd imagine whales actually like playing the game and not just clicking on auto and be done with it.

Also, how is having more stats not increasing your chances of winning?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Also, how is having more stats not increasing your chances of winning?

Because that's now how everyone defines "pay to win". Arguments about whether something is "pay to win" tend to devolve into people not agreeing to what the definition of "pay to win" is, specifically how much of an advantage a feature needs to give in order to count as "win".

For some people, that threshold is any advantage at all. For some people, that threshold is any advantage that cannot be acquired in any other way. For some people, that threshold is an advantage that is nearly insurmountable in any other way.

Arguing if a feature is "pay to win" is completely and utterly pointless unless people can agree on how to define it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because that's now how everyone defines "pay to win". Arguments about whether something is "pay to win" tend to devolve into people not agreeing to what the definition of "pay to win" is, specifically how much of an advantage a feature needs to give in order to count as "win".

For some people, that threshold is any advantage at all. For some people, that threshold is any advantage that cannot be acquired in any other way. For some people, that threshold is an advantage that is nearly insurmountable in any other way.

Arguing if a feature is "pay to win" is completely and utterly pointless unless people can agree on how to define it.

The definition provided in what I quoted was "increases your ability to automatically win" By their definition stats should count as P2W. I did not disagree with how they defined it so I don't see how this would be a pointless thing to argue. Edit: ok I did disagree with the view point but still, the question I asked doesn't necessarily conflict with their definition.

Edited by NegativeExponents-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

The definition provided in what I quoted was "increases your ability to automatically win" By their definition stats should count as P2W. I did not disagree with how they defined it so I don't see how this would be a pointless thing to argue. Edit: ok I did disagree with the view point but still, the question I asked doesn't necessarily conflict with their definition.

Increasing your chances of winning doesn't necessarily increase your chances of automatically winning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Increasing your chances of winning doesn't necessarily increase your chances of automatically winning.

Then pray tell, what increases your chances of automatically winning?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Then pray tell, what increases your chances of automatically winning?

Not much.

More stats for high-end super tanks. More mobility for high-end nukes. Some Duo skills. Summoning in general as the primary vehicle for the previously listed things. Arena Assault items. Things like that.

Edited by Ice Dragon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Then pray tell, what increases your chances of automatically winning?

I don't think its about automatically winning, that would be preposterous, you still have to play the game, auto-battle won't win in AR.

Look at it this way:

I think we can all agree that a +10 Cordelia is arguably better than a +0 Cordelia in every way. Right? Not just for scoring purposes. Her Performance is way better, faster, stronger, sturdier, healthier. How many stats are we talking about? 23!!! 20 from merges and 3 from 1st merge eliminating the bane.

Someone who buys the pass gets 10 stats from resplendency AND can put summoner support on her which provides another 13 stats. 

We are talking about a potential 23 stat increase.
 

Wait a minute! 23? Thats exactly what you get when you plus +10 a +0 Cordelia. In other words it's a +20 Cordelia +3 hp stats.

If that's not an edge I don't know what is. 

 

Edited by Endriu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Endriu said:

AND can put summoner support on her which provides another 13 stats. 

You can already do that without Feh Pass, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can already do that without Feh Pass, though.

No shit?

I had a feeling you would point that out. LOL

Edit: Of course you are right! 

Technically we might just talk about a +10 increase as extra 13 stats can be already achieved with summoner support. But I think we all know what kind of possibilities arise if we suddenly have 3 summoner supports. 

 

Edited by Endriu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...