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FEH Pass and what went wrong


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3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Right, completely forgot about the Altina Exception.

Which means if alts were even one banner every other month, we'd still have a good supply of brand-new units.

So 15 per two months, or 90 per year. That'd last about four years if you go for everyone, or three years if you leave out the worst 25%. Personally I'd love to get the most interesting 75% of the remaining units over the course of the next three years, but even that seems rough from IS's perspective - we'd be getting some pretty niche lineups within that timeframe, and they'd really be running out of material if they wanted to make the game last longer than that.

The funny thing is, 2019's lineup is not too far off from that. (Although it looks like I miscounted and it's 71, not 78.)

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4 hours ago, eclipse said:

This doesn't take into account that there's a lot of unpopular characters in there, as well as a bunch of NPCs.  But it's an illustration as to how NOT starved IS is for new units.

 

3 hours ago, Othin said:

but like you said, that ends up really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It depends on what you define as bottom of the barrel.  How many of the characters not yet in the game are popular enough to be a reasonable addition.

An extreme threshold would be Luke, who was not only added, but as a premium unit with a ranking of 674 in CYL1. He's probably an outlier since he was added so early in the game, and probably wouldn't cut it as a banner unit today.

A more recent addition is Osian, who was ranked 489 in CYL1. Going by this threshold, there's 172 characters not in the game who were ranked higher than him, so you could say there's enough units for almost one and a half years worth of banners without alts or scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Again, it's possible to argue Osian is also an outlier because he has a pre-existing prf and had a Mythic on his banner. So you could have a stricter threshold for where the bottom of the barrel starts.

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51 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

 

It depends on what you define as bottom of the barrel.  How many of the characters not yet in the game are popular enough to be a reasonable addition.

An extreme threshold would be Luke, who was not only added, but as a premium unit with a ranking of 674 in CYL1. He's probably an outlier since he was added so early in the game, and probably wouldn't cut it as a banner unit today.

A more recent addition is Osian, who was ranked 489 in CYL1. Going by this threshold, there's 172 characters not in the game who were ranked higher than him, so you could say there's enough units for almost one and a half years worth of banners without alts or scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Again, it's possible to argue Osian is also an outlier because he has a pre-existing prf and had a Mythic on his banner. So you could have a stricter threshold for where the bottom of the barrel starts.

I agree that Luke is an outlier and would not be a premium unit on a more recent banner.

Osian is interesting, Looking at CYL3, the most recent CYL at the time he was added, his rank was 350, which is actually quite high for an FE5 character. He was the 8th highest-ranked FE5 character at the time, and 4th highest of the ones who didn't have a regular version before his banner. Mareeta got a regular version alongside him and Ced has gotten one since then, so the only higher-ranked FE5 character who hasn't shown up yet is Sara.

FE5 has a lot of characters, many of them ranked a lot lower than Osian. Xavier, Perne, Safy, Seluf, Alva, Troude, Halvan, Cain, Conomor, and Veld all got under 50 votes on CYL4 - those are better examples of the sorts of characters I'm talking about. And I'm saying that as someone who would very much like it for some of those characters to be added - particularly Safy and Halvan. There's also several FE4 substitutes in that same vote range - Creidne, Deimne, Hawk, Jeanne, Tristan, Asaello, Amid, Munnir, Charlot, Hermina, and Dalvin. I really don't think IS has any interest in dipping into those.

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7 minutes ago, SwordsDude said:

gucchi lowers in price 2nd hand but yet again you'll gain some money back. at the end of the day in both those cases you purchases some valuable raw materials in combination of craftmanship. quality had it's price. and while you could buy a ton of nice cars for the same money. it doesnt have that ferrari quality. You want something of the same quality your going to spend just as much on a different brand like the lambogini.

That quality is not worth it; you do not need that kind of quality for everyday items. Ferraris are gas guzzlers and killing the planet; just buy a Tesla. Gucci has manufacturing in China and employs slave labor; support another company instead.

Fire Emblem Heroes on the other hand can entertain the masses completely free if the players chooses so, almost everyone has access to a smart phone these days so very few people are left out, produces much less carbon dioxide since there are no physical products to ship around the world, and everyone who made Heroes is employed in first world countries democratic countries.

So, how dare you value such immoral products over a much more benign product?

You see what I just did there? We will use another example to highlight just how subjective things are.

1 minute ago, SwordsDude said:

Gacha games with mainly the fanservice I'd say it's a different kind of merchandice collecting with a bit of gameplay for expeially the whales. since grinding ain't fun mainly collecting for those kinds of people.

What are your hobbies? Anything you say I can just say:

2 minutes ago, SwordsDude said:

If where talking Your Hobby i would rather compare it to My Hobby, however Your Hobby is a bit of a downgrade compared to that since you have nothing to show for. also a Your Hobby could end at any point.

Your Hobby I'd say it's a different kind of merchandice collecting with a bit of gameplay for expeially the whales. since grinding ain't fun mainly collecting for those kinds of people.

— — — — — — —

20 minutes ago, SwordsDude said:

not the greatest comparison. if you where to spend 10.000$ in a gacha game you lost 10.000$ for some jepegs and voice lines you could buy a ton of sizable games for the same price.

 

Again, just because you do not think it is valuable does not mean it is not valuable to others. Why should any girl spend a $100 on a hairdo when they can just buy a wig? Why spend hundreds of dollars on a small jar of caviar when it does not even last you a day? Why spend money on movies at all when you can just watch YouTube at home for free?

Fire Emblem Heroes provides an experience that is valuable to whales that other products cannot match or simulate. If Heroes is not valuable, whales would not be spending the money. If you do not think it is valuable, then do not pay for it. The Orbs are clearly not marketed towards you.

1 hour ago, SwordsDude said:

Nintendo had big succes with the nes snes and gameboy gba era

And do I need to remind you that nintendo's most profitable era by far was Nintendo ds and wii era with zero dlc at all

This really, really, really annoys me as an accountant, as it totally ignores the context of those numbers and Japan's economic condition at the time, and it shows no understanding of how a business works and little research beyond skimming Google search result headlines. We only need to skim just a little deeper into the financial statements to have a better and more nuanced view of what is going on.

The GBA era was relatively unremarkable (I am just scratching the surface though, so there might some interesting thing or two if I dig deeper), so for the sake of time and the fact that I am not paid to do this analysis, we will skip it. The only additional comment I have is that Nintendo could have used their assets more efficiently during that time.

If you measure purely by the big revenue and income numbers during the DS era, then sure, they are really profitable, with that era's best fiscal year 2007-2008 being about one and a half times better than Switch era's best fiscal year 2018-2019. However, if you just look at their profit margin for the era, it was pretty much average and totally unremarkable, with the exception of one thing: Nintendo was racking up HUGE amounts of debt during the boom times of 2007-2008, reaching up to 32% of their total assets being financed by debt to push the sales of the Wii. And guess what? I can rack up a huge amount of debt to make my revenue and income look bigger too! All I need to do is to somehow convince Bank of America to sign off on multiple housing mortgages so I can multiply my rental income; while my revenue to net income ratio will remain relatively similar, my net income would certainly look much more massive and impressive. 

Sadly, the boom times do not last. The United States reared its big fat mortgaged ass towards the ceiling and launched the Great Recession at the fan. We suffered a year long devastating recession, and so did Japan. But Japan had it way worse. To them, our shit was as brutal as their earthquakes, with Japan having to take two additional aftershock recessions between short periods of relief. Creditors came knocking and Nintendo had to pay them back and drastically reduce their debt over the following years. The 3DS did pretty well considering that it launched in the middle of a recession, but the Wii U suffered as it lacked significant marketable innovation to drive sales (if they were able to add VR back then, maybe, just maybe, that might have been enough of a novelty marketing push), people were still recovering from the aftermath of the recession and they really were not that interested in just a Wii 2.0, the Yen was also really strong at the time and what little sale of the Wii U did have internationally did translate into much back into Yen, and Nintendo was in no shape to take on additional debt to push the sale of the Wii U as Nintendo went under water twice (suffered losses) during the 3DS era.

And now that brings us to the present, and Nintendo was able to borrow more debt again to help push the sale of the Switch. The Yen also went back to a more reasonable exchange rate and Abe was FINALLY able get the Yen to inflate to help boost Japanese consumer spending. And because Nintendo really did not want a repeat of the Wii U, why not combine the handheld and console market together, so the customers of the handheld market can literally and metaphorically carry the console market too? AND having a portable console IS a pretty novel idea! So voila, Nintendo began to crawl its way back out of the earth quaking shithole volcano we created ten years ago.

And here is $60 worth of basic analysis work completely free with all the numbers, links to annual reports, links to definitions, and a pretty little chart to look at that I hope will enlighten Nintendo fans a little. You are welcome.

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19 minutes ago, XRay said:

Why should any girl spend a $100 on a hairdo when they can just buy a wig?

You would still need to maintain and style the wig if you want it to look nice, and depending on the quality wigs can go well over $100.

Not really disagreeing with any of your points or anything just saying you might want to pick better examples.

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53 minutes ago, XRay said:

 

Fire Emblem Heroes on the other hand can entertain the masses completely free if the players chooses so, almost everyone has access to a smart phone these days so very few people are left out, produces much less carbon dioxide since there are no physical products to ship around the world, and everyone who made Heroes is employed in first world countries democratic countries.

Your giving feh a bit to much credit lol. I get that you like the game but especially in this market what you usually gain for the same amount of money there is a reason why people find a couple hundred $ for a jpeg to much. it;s kinda insane that some people defend it in the first place.

There is one thing I agree with on though yes fe heroes including whale spendings is entertainment for the masses

considering that most whales are not even slightly rich in the first place they just spend a sizable chunk of their income every month. unlike a ferrari in wich a person is actually rich. People don't even have a shot to make a stupid decision for those expenses.

 

In terms of succes if where talking Nintendo

The nintendo wii sold 100 million + units it's one of the selling consoles of all time

and the ds with 155 million units is just 1 million below the ps2 at 2nd place

that era was the most profitable for nintendo. It's the reason why nintendo could survive in the crappy wii u era since they had a ton of reserves left of that succesfull era

Both those consoles had succes in the main stream. The switch however isnt even close to that thanks to mobile phones. It's a market more focusses on gamers now. way less casual people in the market today compared to wii and ds era.

Switch combines both handheld and console sales at 50 million sales atm?

DS and wii combined where almost 260 million. not to mention have you seen game sales in wii era

Wow big deal smash bros sold for 16 million a few other titles like botw and pokemon aswell.

DS had had those sales and than some

if where looking at wii almost their entire top 10 sold over 20 million games usually 30 million if not more

Mario kart wii sold 37 million compared to 22 million on switch and if where going outside the top 5 it's already close to 10 million copies only

DS while less sales them top sales are 25 and 30 million and that doesnt even include pokemon mario bros mario kart

even on ds pokemon barely even breaks the top 5 wii and ds sales blast the switch games sales out of the water withouth the need for any pokemon games at all. 

You can't be serious that the wii and ds era where not that great in terms of revenue. They where like literally at the top of the market

They beat sony in the console wars with the wii xbox 360 and ps3 bowed down before the wii. and in the handheld market they where absolute kings psp did nothing.

if we compare sales they sold way more back than. and considering that the switch combined both it's way less than the 2 at once.

your telling me that 

255 million consoles sales vs 50 million is almost equal?

your telling me that game sales of both those platforms wich all outsold the switch pretty big means equal revenue. multiple games with over 20 or 30 million sales compared to the top 5 on switch wich is 15 million on average. seperately the slaughter the switch. and combined let's not talk about that.

LMAO it's the reason why they could survive till the switch era after the failure that was the wii u. 3ds sales did not cover those losses very well same for the amiibo hype.

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19 minutes ago, SwordsDude said:

your telling me that 

255 million consoles sales vs 50 million is almost equal?

your telling me that game sales of both those platforms wich all outsold the switch pretty big means equal revenue

LMAO

I do not think you get it. You need to stay in school and maybe get a part-time job so the Feh Pass would not look like such a daunting purchase, because you have little memory of the recession and you could not comprehend what I just told you. I will highlight it again so I hope you will understand what I am saying in the future and appreciate the work I put into this Google Sheet.

39 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you measure purely by the big revenue and income numbers during the DS era, then sure, they are really profitable, with that era's best fiscal year 2007-2008 being about one and a half times better than Switch era's best fiscal year 2018-2019. However, if you just look at their profit margin for the era, it was pretty much average and totally unremarkable, with the exception of one thing: Nintendo was racking up HUGE amounts of debt during the boom times of 2007-2008, reaching up to 32% of their total assets being financed by debt to push the sales of the Wii. And guess what? I can rack up a huge amount of debt to make my revenue and income look bigger too! All I need to do is to somehow convince Bank of America to sign off on multiple housing mortgages so I can multiply my rental income; while my revenue to net income ratio will remain relatively similar, my net income would certainly look much more massive and impressive. 

 

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I do not think you get it. You need to stay in school and maybe get a part-time job so the Feh Pass would not look like such a daunting purchase, because you have little memory of the recession and you could not comprehend what I just told you. I will highlight it again so I hope you will understand what I am saying in the future and appreciate the work I put into this Google Sheet.

I have a well paying job don't give me that crap, I'm pretty sure that even the majority of people that complain can easily afford that each month. most people complain about the price compared to a full priced game at 60$ a ton of people like to compare it to other games considering it's also a game. also feh pass is the better deal compared to lose orb prices but even than people probably didnt like the orb prices in the first place however it's more in your face about it wich is why people opened their mouth this time around.

ton of non whale People probably did make some small purchases here and there withouth noticing their total cost. however with the feh pass your always having that image of spending over 100$ a year on this game. It's the same as like cooking a frog alive slowly. When you do it to fast the frog is in shock and jumps out immidiately. but if you do it slowly the frog will be boiled alive withouth noticing it. 

Small purchases is the slow cook method in wich people didnt notice it. the feh pass rakes up the temperature a bit to fast always reminding people of it during gameplay resulting in people realising the costs of the game and comparing it to other stuff.

also  I'm pretty sure even a kid with some small time pocket money could spend that. but enough about that.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I don't see any console sales in those sheets only handheld. 

Also they didnt do to bad with the recession they had excellent results. multiple articles actually.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/164488/article.html

and if where talking 2010 to 2012 having lower profits or even earlier with debts.

Pusing wii sales you say more like developing the next generation. if they would only push wii sales those costs would not be a problem that means more profit. developing an entire new console with games for the new gimmick now that's only a loss for those years until you can put it up for sale.

it takes years to develop a console it doesnt happen overnight after all.

Considering that the wii u came out in 2012 they where already investing allot to make the next console generation or what do you think about the 3ds coming out in 2011. and 2012 and up where horrible times for Nintendo the wii u was a flop people though it was just a wii. parents buying wii u games wich did not work on the original wii in wich even store employees had to explain that the wii u is a brand new console to parents.

Developing  a brand new console costs money. allot of it until a console is out on the market the money invested in it is a loss.

And yes ps3 didnt do to hot that generation. they pretty much broke even in the end. sony did horrible that gen.

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3 hours ago, SwordsDude said:

I do not think you get it. You need to stay in school and maybe get a part-time job so the Feh Pass would not look like such a daunting purchase, because you have little memory of the recession and you could not comprehend what I just told you. I will highlight it again so I hope you will understand what I am saying in the future and appreciate the work I put into this Google Sheet.

I have a well paying job don't give me that crap, I'm pretty sure that even the majority of people that complain can easily afford that each month. most people complain about the price compared to a full priced game at 60$ a ton of people like to compare it to other games considering it's also a game. also feh pass is the better deal compared to lose orb prices but even than people probably didnt like the orb prices in the first place however it's more in your face about it wich is why people opened their mouth this time around.

Lovely.  Pay for my groceries, will ya?  Then maybe I can consider throwing money at this.

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On 2/15/2020 at 3:03 PM, SwordsDude said:

dlc became a mess starting from awakening. the dlc came close or surpassed the base game for seperate chapters wich in pretty much all cases where just fodder.

I miss the old days

At least in the 3DS era DLCs could were selectable.

 

Nowadaysthe player is forced to buy the entire content at once without knowing the content.

That's why I never will buy the Three Houses Pass because nothing aside of the new route interests me.

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15 hours ago, Falcom Knight said:

At least in the 3DS era DLCs could were selectable.

 

Nowadaysthe player is forced to buy the entire content at once without knowing the content.

That's why I never will buy the Three Houses Pass because nothing aside of the new route interests me.

Are you sure if the old system was better. you where paying 3$ or more for a single map giving some skills or for some story new classes. and those added up would it really be that much more pricy.

Awakening dlc was 60$ total. 55$ when you got in early for the first dlc being free. It is btw more pricy than 60$ if you did not buy the 3 map packs if you decide to to pick 1 of 3 per dlc update.

And than we compare it to fire emblem tree houses with 25$ dlc in wich the majority of the value clearly is in the extra story content. and where not talking just a single map here. probably more content than those single purchases in awakening. Would awakening be that much cheaper if you where selective I'm not to sure. and again single maps per purchase. 

The new method of dlc is more value for your buck. since in awakening you paid more for less. Dlc in general is never that great of a deal, Tree houses did however do dlc better imo the 3ds was way to pricy.

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In general I have not bought any single DLCs aside of a few characters from Smash Bros 4.

I did not enjoy Awakening and Fates too much to invest more money for extra content.

Still I would prefer it, since it gives the player more freedom to pick stuff they like and not waste money for stuff they are not interested in.

 

Since I bought the Pass for Smash Bros Ultimate, I know now to never do it again because I do not want to pay for something I do not care, and most of the DLC characters of Smash have not really met my favors.

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On 2/18/2020 at 8:44 AM, SwordsDude said:

Are you sure if the old system was better. you where paying 3$ or more for a single map giving some skills or for some story new classes. and those added up would it really be that much more pricy.

Awakening dlc was 60$ total. 55$ when you got in early for the first dlc being free. It is btw more pricy than 60$ if you did not buy the 3 map packs if you decide to to pick 1 of 3 per dlc update.

And than we compare it to fire emblem tree houses with 25$ dlc in wich the majority of the value clearly is in the extra story content. and where not talking just a single map here. probably more content than those single purchases in awakening. Would awakening be that much cheaper if you where selective I'm not to sure. and again single maps per purchase. 

The new method of dlc is more value for your buck. since in awakening you paid more for less. Dlc in general is never that great of a deal, Tree houses did however do dlc better imo the 3ds was way to pricy.

If I may interject, for me the difference is 3H managed to utterly fail to grab my attention even before DLC - honestly, Cindered Shadows is the one part of 3H I might be willing to pay for, the rest has been utterly meh. Doesn't matter how good a deal it is if I'm still not interested in what they're selling, right? How about we look at the 3DS DLC then? I'll spoiler for size convenience, I tend to get wordy.

Spoiler

 

In Awakening's case, almost every DLC Map came with a special-art version of characters I actually knew with my Smash background(the first four maps I bought had Marth, Roy, Ike, and Lyn, which incidentally is still my favorite artwork of Lyn to date and was the main reason I later purchased the DLC for Fire Emblem Warriors), which carried much more of an appeal to me personally as I could then go ahead and play the game using Units I already knew. Admittedly, the Einherjar could have been implemented into the game a little better, but given that they thought Awakening would probably be the last FE game I'm willing to cut them slack.

In addition, each DLC Map involving the Einherjar came with multiple battle conversations that could only be accessed by pitting specific Shepherds against specific Einherjar(Vaike vs Roy in the original set, never can remember what it's called, Tiki vs Gharnef in Rogues and Redeemers, etc.), which gave further depth to the characters involved and gave me a reason to actually use everyone, so I could see their special conversations - I never would have touched Sumia if I hadn't needed to figure out if she could have a unique conversation with anyone in the first DLC Map(she does, with Caeda). I also still get a good laugh out of Old Hubba every time I come back to Awakening for another playthrough(which will continue to happen until I reach my goal of S-Supporting every possible pairing in the entire game), meaning the DLC is still working to pay off its cost for me.

Moving to the non-Einherjar DLC, I still use Hot-Spring Scramble every playthrough for EXP grinding(it's actually more efficient than the EXP-focused one once you reach a certain point) as well as for Support building, and the bonus Yukata artwork is always a treat to go back and see, not to mention all three Scramble maps contain more of those unique conversations, again incentivizing me to actually use everyone so I can figure out who talks to who - Vaike and Frederick have a conversation? How the heck would I have known that if I hadn't first discovered the Cordelia-Chrom conversation and wanted to see who else could chat on the beach? Frickin' Emmeryn has conversations in Hot-Spring Scramble, it's more meaningful dialogue than she has in almost the entire game as a playable! Then to top it off, the conversations change if I'm married to or parent of the other character? Awesome!
The Grinding Maps saved me quite a bit of time I would have spent on random Risen battles that may or may not have given me the EXP or Weapons I would actually need, and I can half the cost of everything in all shops once I complete Infinite Regalia plus get Eldigan? I didn't even know who Eldigan was, but he looked like a boss, so nice!
Finally, three Maps designed to challenge the player which grant you the three best babes in all of Fire Emblem as rewards, and an ultra-challenge Map I can use to set my final goal for the game, Obtain A Supreme Emblem? Experienced though I am by now, I still find Palla and Catria difficult to obtain(though I've got Est down to a science), and I've only beat Apotheosis once, on the route that gets me...a Grandmaster with Shadowgift? Alright, I'm ok with that!

As a collector, completionist, and wannabe writer, the DLC was absolutely worth the money for me on multiple levels, even as someone who couldn't afford to buy more than two Maps at a time, over a long period of time - I still haven't been able to scrape together the extra money to go get the very last DLC Map, Elincia's. And this is just Awakening, I haven't even talked about Fates or SoV! I don't think I'll go over those here, I can give my thoughts on those if anyone wants to hear it but I doubt you all do.

...Basically what I'm trying to say is that you can't just objectively look at it from a hard dollar value, because different people are drawn to different things - Awakening's DLC was meh for you, and that's absolutely fine because that just wasn't worth the money for you, but it was for me. This is why I decided to try to not hate on the FEH Pass, even though I'm definitely not going to be able to afford more than like one month every half a year or so at most and probably won't even bother to try - yeah, I think it was a garbage decision, but there are people who hated how much Fates cost overall yet are just fine dropping however much it is for the FEH Pass, so it goes both ways.

 

Sorry if you actually tried to say any of this earlier, I haven't looked at this Thread in a while and am mostly speaking for the intent of gathering my own thoughts on the matter.

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13 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

If I may interject, for me the difference is 3H managed to utterly fail to grab my attention even before DLC - honestly, Cindered Shadows is the one part of 3H I might be willing to pay for, the rest has been utterly meh. Doesn't matter how good a deal it is if I'm still not interested in what they're selling, right? How about we look at the 3DS DLC then? I'll spoiler for size convenience, I tend to get wordy.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

In Awakening's case, almost every DLC Map came with a special-art version of characters I actually knew with my Smash background(the first four maps I bought had Marth, Roy, Ike, and Lyn, which incidentally is still my favorite artwork of Lyn to date and was the main reason I later purchased the DLC for Fire Emblem Warriors), which carried much more of an appeal to me personally as I could then go ahead and play the game using Units I already knew. Admittedly, the Einherjar could have been implemented into the game a little better, but given that they thought Awakening would probably be the last FE game I'm willing to cut them slack.

In addition, each DLC Map involving the Einherjar came with multiple battle conversations that could only be accessed by pitting specific Shepherds against specific Einherjar(Vaike vs Roy in the original set, never can remember what it's called, Tiki vs Gharnef in Rogues and Redeemers, etc.), which gave further depth to the characters involved and gave me a reason to actually use everyone, so I could see their special conversations - I never would have touched Sumia if I hadn't needed to figure out if she could have a unique conversation with anyone in the first DLC Map(she does, with Caeda). I also still get a good laugh out of Old Hubba every time I come back to Awakening for another playthrough(which will continue to happen until I reach my goal of S-Supporting every possible pairing in the entire game), meaning the DLC is still working to pay off its cost for me.

Moving to the non-Einherjar DLC, I still use Hot-Spring Scramble every playthrough for EXP grinding(it's actually more efficient than the EXP-focused one once you reach a certain point) as well as for Support building, and the bonus Yukata artwork is always a treat to go back and see, not to mention all three Scramble maps contain more of those unique conversations, again incentivizing me to actually use everyone so I can figure out who talks to who - Vaike and Frederick have a conversation? How the heck would I have known that if I hadn't first discovered the Cordelia-Chrom conversation and wanted to see who else could chat on the beach? Frickin' Emmeryn has conversations in Hot-Spring Scramble, it's more meaningful dialogue than she has in almost the entire game as a playable! Then to top it off, the conversations change if I'm married to or parent of the other character? Awesome!
The Grinding Maps saved me quite a bit of time I would have spent on random Risen battles that may or may not have given me the EXP or Weapons I would actually need, and I can half the cost of everything in all shops once I complete Infinite Regalia plus get Eldigan? I didn't even know who Eldigan was, but he looked like a boss, so nice!
Finally, three Maps designed to challenge the player which grant you the three best babes in all of Fire Emblem as rewards, and an ultra-challenge Map I can use to set my final goal for the game, Obtain A Supreme Emblem? Experienced though I am by now, I still find Palla and Catria difficult to obtain(though I've got Est down to a science), and I've only beat Apotheosis once, on the route that gets me...a Grandmaster with Shadowgift? Alright, I'm ok with that!

As a collector, completionist, and wannabe writer, the DLC was absolutely worth the money for me on multiple levels, even as someone who couldn't afford to buy more than two Maps at a time, over a long period of time - I still haven't been able to scrape together the extra money to go get the very last DLC Map, Elincia's. And this is just Awakening, I haven't even talked about Fates or SoV! I don't think I'll go over those here, I can give my thoughts on those if anyone wants to hear it but I doubt you all do.

...Basically what I'm trying to say is that you can't just objectively look at it from a hard dollar value, because different people are drawn to different things - Awakening's DLC was meh for you, and that's absolutely fine because that just wasn't worth the money for you, but it was for me. This is why I decided to try to not hate on the FEH Pass, even though I'm definitely not going to be able to afford more than like one month every half a year or so at most and probably won't even bother to try - yeah, I think it was a garbage decision, but there are people who hated how much Fates cost overall yet are just fine dropping however much it is for the FEH Pass, so it goes both ways.

 

Sorry if you actually tried to say any of this earlier, I haven't looked at this Thread in a while and am mostly speaking for the intent of gathering my own thoughts on the matter.

I get your point but tree houses dlc the majority of the value is in that cindred shadows. all the other stuff is probably only 5$ in value let's be honest. the extra story content was its main selling point at 25$

you did check 3 houses dlc right?

first 3 waves where only clothes some weapons and 2 extra characters a few extra spots it's almost nothing

wave 4 is the majority of the content it's like 5$ for the first 3 waves of dlc and 20$ for wave 4 if i had to guess. if it was selective you might have only saved 5 to 10$. however you probably gained more by wave 4 dlc alone than being selective in awakening imo. 

https://fireemblem.nintendo.com/three-houses/downloadable-content/

Also grind maps saving time is debatable depends on what kind of game you want to play.

You could just play through hard or lunatic mode withouth grinding easily. heck those modes even block those monster units on past roads by giving them max stats making them unbeatable anyway.

Also in the grind way, you could easily spend 20+ hours on that. while withouth grinding you probably might have beaten the game by than.

If you want to play the games like the classic older FE games I would not recommend grind maps at all since all the difficulty is gone with those. If you want to cheese the game parade through the game like a god while fighting weaklings than yes dlc maps are way to go. Only in lunatic plus is the game even remotely challenging than and some dlc maps. however some skill combinations like nosefatsu tanks arhmthrift galeforce etc etc where kinda broken so even than difficulty was questionable.

Personally I enjoyed my playthroughs in awakening the most withouth grinding as in past games, but i could see why people like to over power stuff with big numbers.

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1 hour ago, SwordsDude said:

I get your point but tree houses dlc the majority of the value is in that cindred shadows. all the other stuff is probably only 5$ in value let's be honest. the extra story content was its main selling point at 25$

you did check 3 houses dlc right?

first 3 waves where only clothes some weapons and 2 extra characters a few extra spots it's almost nothing

wave 4 is the majority of the content it's like 5$ for the first 3 waves of dlc and 20$ for wave 4 if i had to guess. if it was selective you might have only saved 5 to 10$. however you probably gained more by wave 4 dlc alone than being selective in awakening imo. 

I think you missed what I was trying to say - Cindered Shadows is the only part of 3H I find worth money, period. That includes the base game, I still don’t have 3H because I only found the DLC path interesting. I’m not contending the value of the other stuff, I just liked Awakening as a game but haven’t liked 3H enough to be willing to go for it.

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1 hour ago, SoulWeaver said:

I think you missed what I was trying to say - Cindered Shadows is the only part of 3H I find worth money, period. That includes the base game, I still don’t have 3H because I only found the DLC path interesting. I’m not contending the value of the other stuff, I just liked Awakening as a game but haven’t liked 3H enough to be willing to go for it.

Fair enough. The game does feel quite a bit different compared to past fire emblem games.

Did indeed miss the point that even the base game didn't lure you in.

Edited by SwordsDude
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It's all good, man, I wasn't very clear about that when I first jumped in.

Side note, we're about to the shift from RespLyndent to Cordy. Does anyone know what it'll cost to pick up Resplendent Heroes post-distribution yet, or are we not going to know until the actual change? Though I hate on the Pass a bit, that's some gorgeous artwork for Cordy, especially compared to her regular art(it's not BAD, just...meh), and I do want it, I just want to know if I should wait until there are enough Resplendent Heroes I like to just go get her retroactively or if it'll cost me too much to do so.

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11 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Side note, we're about to the shift from RespLyndent to Cordy. Does anyone know what it'll cost to pick up Resplendent Heroes post-distribution yet, or are we not going to know until the actual change?

Spoiler

 

Half the pass cost, so effectively if you wanted an old one, you have to buy the pass, and then buy the old resplendent, coming out to ~$15 for 3 (or 4 if you time the pass to get access to 3 new ones)

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I was on the fence about the pass because I really wanted that Lyn but...  thinking about weather or not I'll get the pass today and get her... just... probably not. The idea sickens me of buying this pass even with the QoL perks and I have 0 interest in Cordelia so if I don't get it today it's not being purchased period.

I'll live.

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2 hours ago, Azuni said:
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Half the pass cost, so effectively if you wanted an old one, you have to buy the pass, and then buy the old resplendent, coming out to ~$15 for 3 (or 4 if you time the pass to get access to 3 new ones)

Ick. Guess I'll have to find a way to pull 10 bucks together if I want Cordy.

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