Character(s) that you feel bad for because their perception in the fandom

[Sidereal Wraith]

Camilla for sure. 

[vanguard333]

Fates Cast: I don’t like most of the Fates cast; I find them one-note and gimmicky. But I can and do feel sorry for them; it’s hard to be a well-written character in a badly-written game. They’re more victims of Fates’ bad writing. 

Alm: Part of me does dislike Alm, but I’m mostly just disappointed by the wasted potential than anything else. Have far fewer characters fawn over him, make him just as in-the-wrong as Celica and a bit more aggressive pre-character-development, and FE could’ve had a really interesting character. So, as much as I am one of the more vocal critics of Alm on this site and I stand by my criticisms, I do feel sorry for him, because he seems, more than anything else, reflective of how divided SOV’s team evidently was over what they wanted SOV to be. 

 

38 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Poor Bernie-bear did nothing to deserve the hate. 

Agreed. Admittedly, I’m a bit biased as I’ve only played Crimson Flower so far. But, on that route at least, she’s a fantastic character. I can understand if people find her extreme shyness (for lack of a better term for it off the top of my head) a bit irritating, but there’s a lot more to her character than just that.

[Deathcon]

40 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Nemesis.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm morally certain that the odds that he's anywhere near the bastard Rhea says he is are astronomically small.

 

Coming from a guy who played VW first and have completed almost every path and halfway through SS, yeah no. Play VW and learn his true backstory before jumping to conclusions, he is the whole reason Rhea is so close to the breaking point.

31 minutes ago, Etheus said:

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I think the missing piece of information is that we never see what Sothis' reign is like, and why the Agarthans would want to oppose it. 

Sothis is an ally, but she also has a pretty condescending, haughty, and arrogant personality. Not exactly qualities one would want from a Goddess/ruler. 

 

The Agrathans slaughtered her people and her and made [REDACTED]. There is no justification.

[Alastor15243]

37 minutes ago, Etheus said:

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I think the missing piece of information is that we never see what Sothis' reign is like, and why the Agarthans would want to oppose it. 

Sothis is an ally, but she also has a pretty condescending, haughty, and arrogant personality. Not exactly qualities one would want from a Goddess/ruler. 

 

Spoiler

Exactly. We have four main sources of info on that time. One's an amnesiac, one's an opportunistic liar, one's a man resurrected by dark magic, and one's a colony of isolated, sunlight-deprived, inbred subterraneans.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Shrimpica]

10 minutes ago, Deathcon said:

Coming from a guy who played VW first and have completed almost every path and halfway through SS, yeah no. Play VW and learn his true backstory before jumping to conclusions, he is the whole reason Rhea is so close to the breaking point.

The Agrathans slaughtered her people and her and made [REDACTED]. There is no justification.

to add to that

Spoiler

Both Rhea and Thales agree that Nemesis is a thief. 

Only Edelgard says he was some awesome king or something, but Edelgard doesn't know anything

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Shrimperor

[Deathcon]

10 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

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Exactly. We have four main sources of info on that time. One's an amnesiac, one's an opportunistic liar, one's a man resurrected by dark magic, and one's a colony of isolated, sunlight-deprived, inbred subterraneans.

 

 

We also have Flayn and Seteh who seem to not disagree with Rhea says in VW and SS, plus I am pretty sure Rhea would not lie in any of those cases with the only one I remember is the slight omitting of details of Byleth in VW and not going into detail about Nemesis in SS. I'll excuse the later as she is about to most likely die and probably doesn't want to remember the guy who genocide her entire race.

(Also, I spoiled myself on SS ending and the convo before)

Edited February 10, 2020 by Deathcon
Fixing

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

Meg and Fiona

I mean I know they have horrible stats but they can be useful

[Alastor15243]

11 minutes ago, Deathcon said:

We also have Flayn and Seteh who seem to not disagree with Rhea says in VW and SS, plus I am pretty sure Rhea would not lie in any of those cases with the only one I remember is the slight omitting of details of Byleth in VW and not going into detail about Nemesis in SS. I'll excuse the later as she is about to most likely die and probably doesn't want to remember the guy who genocide her entire race.

(Also, I spoiled myself on SS ending and the convo before)

Spoiler

Those are far from the only cases of Rhea lying. The entire Seiros mythology is full of lies intended to control the human race, like claiming Sothis created the human race instead of just landing on a planet that already had humans on it that were doing just fine without her and deciding to set up shop there. Or that the elites were chosen by Sothis. Or that she herself is Jesus. And these are all lies that Seteth and Flayn are entirely on board with telling as well, at the human race's expense. If her first story that made Nemesis look bad was a lie, why should I believe that her second story that made Nemesis look bad isn't?

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Caster]

3H Lorenz.
I get it, he doesn't make the best first impressions, but the amount of hate he gets is a bit ridiculous in my eyes.
He is flawed, yea, but he does develop really nicely over the course of the game.

[Shrimpica]

11 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

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Those are far from the only cases of Rhea lying. The entire Seiros mythology is full of lies intended to control the human race, like claiming Sothis created the human race instead of just landing on a planet that already had humans on it that were doing just fine without her and deciding to set up shop there. Or that the elites were chosen by Sothis. Or that she herself is Jesus. And these are all lies that Seteth and Flayn are entirely on board with telling as well, at the human race's expense. If her first story that made Nemesis look bad was a lie, why should I believe that her second story that made Nemesis look bad isn't?

 

Spoiler

> Or that the elites were chosen by Sothis. Or that she herself is Jesus. And these are all lies that Seteth and Flayn are entirely on board with telling as well, at the human race's expense.

If anything, those lies saved humans. She could've genocided humans, especially the 10 Elites descendants. Instead she forgave them.  

She had basically these options: Tell the truth and go full tyrant on humans/genocide them, tell the truth and get turned into a weapon or the current lie.

Also, there's no mention of ''humans were doing fine before''. Or that Sothis came from ''another Planet''. Only that she came from far away.

And Seteth and Flayn are 'newcomers'. They were in hiding until like ~20 years before the game.

Also, there are hints thrown around the game that the religion isn't completely a lie.

>If her first story that made Nemesis look bad was a lie, why should I believe that her second story that made Nemesis look bad isn't?
Because even TWISTD agrees with her on that Story. When both sides agree on something, it's gotta be atleast very close to the truth. 

Not to mention all the hints and actions in the game, and her regret in the end point towards it being the truth.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Shrimperor

[Medeus]

34 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

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Exactly. We have four main sources of info on that time. One's an amnesiac, one's an opportunistic liar, one's a man resurrected by dark magic, and one's a colony of isolated, sunlight-deprived, inbred subterraneans.

 

Spoiler

The problem with Nemesis is that every instance aside from the initial lie portrays him as an opportunistic thief at best. All four of those characters (plus the aforementioned Seteth and Flayn) support and agree on this interpretation, and even when we personally meet Nemesis in VW he doesn't seem to be anything other then what they say. They don't even bother to give any indication of a sympathetic motive or trait to hint at something deeper, so nothing in the games gives any reason to doubt Rhea or anyone else on the matter.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Medeus

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

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If anything, those lies saved humans. She could've genocided humans, especially the 10 Elites descendants. Instead she forgave them.  

She had basically these options: Tell the truth and go full tyrant on humans/genocide them, tell the truth and get turned into a weapon or the current lie.

 

Spoiler

She did commit genocide though. The Agarthans, who once thrived on the surface with their advanced technology, are now nothing but a tiny underground society completely forgotten by the human race, with no physical evidence left, anywhere on the surface, that they were ever real. How exactly do you "peacefully" wipe an entire culture off the face of the Earth? Would she even be in a state where she'd want to, even if she could, and even if she were telling the truth about her people being blameless, and even if this happened after the Agarthans killed her mother and genocided her people, instead of before? No. That sounds to me like she burned the Agarthans' cities to ash, men women and children, wiped them literally off of the face of the Earth, drove them underground, and destroyed any and all evidence that the highly advanced society ever existed. And she's been keeping the rest of humanity in a perpetual medieval stasis. And again, all of this horrible stuff happened to the Agarthans before they killed her people. Not after.

 

[Shrimpica]

4 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

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She did commit genocide though. The Agarthans, who once thrived on the surface with their advanced technology, are now nothing but a tiny underground society completely forgotten by the human race, with no physical evidence left, anywhere on the surface, that they were ever real. How exactly do you "peacefully" wipe an entire culture off the face of the Earth? Would she even be in a state where she'd want to, even if she could, and even if she were telling the truth about her people being blameless, and even if this happened after the Agarthans killed her mother and genocided her people, instead of before? No. That sounds to me like she burned the Agarthans' cities to ash, men women and children, wiped them literally off of the face of the Earth, drove them underground, and destroyed any and all evidence that the highly advanced society ever existed. And she's been keeping the rest of humanity in a perpetual medieval stasis. And again, all of this horrible stuff happened to the Agarthans before they killed her people. Not after.

 

Spoiler

The Agarthans themselves nuked Fodlan into oblivion and Sothis had to spend alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of time healing the continent which lead to her falling asleep and Nemesis eventually killing her.

It was Sothis herself who gave the advanced tech to the people of Fodlan, which they used to war against each other and eventually against Nabatea, who retaliated and then Sothis had to heal Fodlan. 

Also, Seiros/Rhea didn't keep anything in Statis. She didn't even create the Crest system. That's all on humans. 

Seiros did not genocide anyone.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Shrimperor

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I'm going with those who say Faye.

I dislike her because her character is near 100% Alm obsession.

But I love her design and think she looks so damn cute. She's cuter than either Celica or Clair if you ask me. But her character is ruined by the constant Alm obsession and I feel bad for her because she had so much potential that just got ignored in favor of wanting for whatever reason a third female trying to get in Alm's pants. 😕

I kinda would like to throw Sylvain in here too. Yes, I'm completely in love with him and biased for him and he's one of the most popular males in TH, but those who hate him seem to just think he's nothing more than a skirt-chaser and an ass to women when his character goes much deeper than that. His behavior towards women is not the real him, not even close.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Anacybele

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Shrimperor said:

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The Agarthans themselves nuked Fodlan into oblivion and Sothis had to spend alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of time healing the continent which lead to her falling asleep and Nemesis eventually killing her.

It was Sothis herself who gave the advanced tech to the people of Fodlan, which they used to war against each other and eventually against Nabatea, who retaliated and then Sothis had to heal Fodlan. 

Also, Seiros/Rhea didn't keep anything in Statis. She didn't even create the Crest system. That's all on humans. 

 

Spoiler

You are again using Rhea's claims as historical fact. My point is that given that the timeline of what little we do know is extremely sketchy and morally suspect, and given she has a history of lying to make herself and her people look good, I do not trust Rhea's account of what the age of Sothis was like at all.

 

[Shrimpica]

Just now, Alastor15243 said:

Spoiler

You are again using Rhea's claims as historical fact. My point is that given that the timeline of what little we do know is extremely sketchy and morally suspect, and given she has a history of lying to make herself and her people look good, I do not trust Rhea's account of what the age of Sothis was like at all.

 

Spoiler

Except: Rhea has no reason to lie anymore when she is near death

and

Her Enemies agree with her on the points they mention together (Like Nemesis).

and

The hints the game throws points at her saying the truth.

And Rhea never lied to ''make her people look good''. The lies she told make those who genocided her people look good, not her people.

 

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Shrimperor said:

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Her Enemies agree with her on the points they mention together (Like Nemesis).

 

Which points, exactly?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The Rhea perception was always weird to me. What did people assume she did off screen before the events of the game? And whatever it is, can't she be redeemed? A thousand years is a long time. Taking in all the orphans of major conflicts without asking them to say a single prayer, endorsing the research of countless secular topics including the Crests made by her mortal enemies, She "kills those that oppose her", yeah, I mean, the ones that are attempting first degree murder on the Pope and anybody in their way. Kind of the highest crime you could commit - even above Regicide. Even in the year 2020 the standard across the earth for attempted assassination of a national leader is still the death penalty. America only kicked that standard about a hundred years ago and you still get prison for life if you can't make the argument for insanity in court. Fodlan doesn't have courts. She lies habitually - even to the point of harming herself, but going off any other fire emblem game and her bizarre behavior shifts when betrayed, that is probably dragon deterioration like any other dragon god. See: Mila in Echoes. Yeah Fodlan society sucks due to nobility, but she's not everybody's baby sitter is she? In a world where the Kingdom and Alliance can create themselves from a holy empire with no religious conflict or endorsement, she seems hands off politically in pretty benevolent ways. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Glennstavos

[Shrimpica]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Which points, exactly?

Spoiler

from the top of my head:

1. Nemesis being a thief. (Infact, that one got mentioned by Agarthians preeettty early in the game)

2. Them retreating underground

and while not mentioned, but something that happened

The Agarthians nuked themselves in VW and SS to take out their enemy. That is a parallel to what they did loooooooooooooong ago.

 

2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

she's not everybody's baby sitter is she?

THANK YOU!

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Shrimperor said:

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from the top of my head:

1. Nemesis being a thief. (Infact, that one got mentioned by Agarthians preeettty early in the game)

2. Them retreating underground

 

Spoiler

Do they just call him a thief, or do they say more? Because that description applies to a lot of people in this franchise who aren't bad people.

And did I ever argue they didn't retreat underground? That was a big part of my argument for why the whole Age of Sothis being objectively good story is suspect.

 

[Espurrhoodie]

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, I'm going with those who say Faye.

I dislike her because her character is near 100% Alm obsession.

But I love her design and think she looks so damn cute. She's cuter than either Celica or Clair if you ask me. But her character is ruined by the constant Alm obsession and I feel bad for her because she had so much potential that just got ignored in favor of wanting for whatever reason a third female trying to get in Alm's pants. 😕

Yeah, I don't like Faye as a character, but I adore her design. She's adorable, honestly. I just wish her character was better.

[Shrimpica]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Do they just call him a thief, or do they say more? Because that description applies to a lot of people in this franchise who aren't bad people.

Spoiler

''The weapon wielded by that thief, the King of Liberation''

Point is, it isn't only Rhea who calls him such, but also her mortal enemies.

Also, there's Nemesis' In game discription ''Under the pretense of....''

That's not something one says about a good person.

 

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Shrimperor said:

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''The weapon wielded by that thief, the King of Liberation''

Point is, it isn't only Rhea who calls him such, but also her mortal enemies.

Also, there's Nemesis' In game discription ''Under the pretense of....''

That's not something one says about a good person.

 

 

Spoiler

Death of the Author, I guess. I'm not saying it wasn't their intent to make Nemesis and the Agarthans horrible people. But authorial intent aside, I find it fascinating that despite them squandering dozens of opportunities to make the Agarthans fascinating, tragic and sympathetic characters, and despite their baffling desire to make TWSITD cartoonishly evil, you could still so easily write a fanfic where the Agarthans were sympathetic or even heroes, and not change anything that we see in the game to make it happen.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

24 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

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Death of the Author, I guess. I'm not saying it wasn't their intent to make Nemesis and the Agarthans horrible people. But authorial intent aside, I find it fascinating that despite them squandering dozens of opportunities to make the Agarthans fascinating, tragic and sympathetic characters, and despite their baffling desire to make TWSITD cartoonishly evil, you could still so easily write a fanfic where the Agarthans were sympathetic or even heroes, and not change anything that we see in the game to make it happen.

 

That's part of the reason the Slitherers are team Garon all over again. Extremely boring and full of wasted potential that was likely willfully ignored for whatever reason. 

[Ottservia]

25 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

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Death of the Author, I guess. I'm not saying it wasn't their intent to make Nemesis and the Agarthans horrible people. But authorial intent aside, I find it fascinating that despite them squandering dozens of opportunities to make the Agarthans fascinating, tragic and sympathetic characters, and despite their baffling desire to make TWSITD cartoonishly evil, you could still so easily write a fanfic where the Agarthans were sympathetic or even heroes, and not change anything that we see in the game to make it happen.

 

I will always hold by the opinion that a pure evil villain can work just as well as a nuanced sympathetic antagonist(Just look at villains like Adachi, Gilgamesh, Grima, and like every persona 5 villain bar Akechi) but slitherers can’t even get that right. Like they don’t have that villainous charisma that makes these characters work nor do they come off as all that threatening like Grima. They also lack sufficient weight in the narrative so yeah.