Jump to content

Who are the biggest victims and winners in hard mode?


Recommended Posts

Which units are more / less usable in hard mode compared to normal mode?

Edward is probably the unit who suffers the most in hard because first he has no weapon advantage in the first two chapters anymore and second he cannot double constantly anymore. He needs to level Speed like every time to double the majority of the enemies.

 

Mia is a big winner for me since the GM's fight rather Lance than Axe using enemies, so she has better evasion against them. Furthermore her chance is highter to take less damage to them, so she definitely prefers to fight Lance users.

 

Sothe, at least in part 1, is way more important because he is the only one of the DB who can constantly double and take several hits. Though the main pro in hard mode is that he cannot ORKO everyone, so he's perfect to prefer kills for the first tier units.

 

Harder to use:

  • Edward
  • Aran
  • Meg
  • Nephenee (because 2-1)
  • Lethe
  • Lyre
  • Kurthnaga
Edited by Falcom Knight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Given that Hard Mode enemy stats are higher than the ones on Normal, I don't see how this could be the case.

Simce ememies have usually one more stat overall in hard mode and weapon disadvantage is removed, the damage output is the same.

Still it does not make my sentence right. Forgot to add a few words...

Edited. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since on hard you only effectively get a quarter the BEXP you'd get on normal, units that have bad availability and rely on BEXP to catch up (e.g Tormod, etc.) also become really bad on hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tormod's perfomance is not much affected overall by the difficulty jump.

In part 1 he can double very most of the enemies aside for very few brigands in 1-8 and very archers and soldiers in 1-E.

In part 4 with his base speed he'll get doubled in normal and hard by all snipers, warriors and helbardiers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Off the top of my head:

Victims:

- All the subpar (or already bad) Laguz which includes, Lyre, Kyza, Lethe, Vika, and Kurthnaga are much worse on Hard mode compared to normal mode. Hell Lyre is nearly unusuable.

- Tormod

- All of the Crimean Army apart from maybe Kieran and Geoffery.

- Edward

- Aran

- Leonardo

- Meg

- Pelleas

Those ones are the ones that are impacted the most. A lot of other units are worse on Hard mode to soem degree, but not outstandingly so, Jill  and Nolan are slightly worse since it takes a bit longer for them to double, but they're still great units. Due to exp cuts Titania gains no EXP early on in part 3 but she's still really good, etc.

 

Winners:

- Haar. No WT means more hit vs swords and his stats are so good the increase in enemy stats doesn't matter.

- The BK. There's almost no reason to use him in normal mode really but in Hard he's very good for doing stuff in the final chapter such as attacking up ledges and taking on one half of the map while Nailah takes the other. In 3-6 he's also the only unit besides Tarvos Nolan and a slightly blessed Aran that can deal with multiple Tigers at once. Still a hard unit to rate otherwise but i find him better on Hard.

- Ike. Same with Haar pretty much.

Would't say there are many winners otherwise since most units do perform better on lower difficulties. Haar and Ike do preform a bit better on lower difficulties too since stat benchmarks are lower but they basically aren't affected by the difficulty change at all and get a slight boost.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Falcom Knight said:

Tormod's perfomance is not much affected overall by the difficulty jump.

In part 1 he can double very most of the enemies aside for very few brigands in 1-8 and very archers and soldiers in 1-E.

In part 4 with his base speed he'll get doubled in normal and hard by all snipers, warriors and helbardiers. 

What I'm trying to say doesn't really have anything to do with enemies being harder, if that's what you meant. Tormord is usable for some time, but you don't really have the resources to make him much better beyond what he already is on hard. Every tried bringing him to the tower on hard? It's a real pain. On normal, everyone can be made really good, because XP is so abundant. On hard you have little to no spare resources. This means units that join underleveled suffer (like Fiona), because they require more investment relative to the total resources you have. Same applies to units like Tormod that appear very little and aren't ready for Endgame. His performance changes very little in Part 1, but then he becomes basically unusable. On other difficulties he remains at least an option, because you have enough spare change you can throw at him, to make him good. Similar performance in 1 and not even an option in 4/5 sounds worse to me, no? Mind you, he's not the only one with this problem, just an example and probably not the best one I could have picked.

Lyre, Lethe, Kyza, Vika, Fiona, Nealuchi, Lucia, Astrid, Makalov, Pelleas, Kurth etc. all require some sort of extra investment, either to keep being useful or to make them worth using in the first place. So compared to a unit like Ike, who needs basically no extra investment at all on any difficulty, if there are less extra resources you can throw around they become worse (no WT also makes Ike better, but that isn't really relevant to my point). Hell even Jill suffers form this (though she's obviously still really good). Basically if a unit requires some moderate to significant investment at some point, that makes them a bit worse in general on normal mode, but a lot worse on hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Classic said:

What I'm trying to say doesn't really have anything to do with enemies being harder, if that's what you meant. Tormord is usable for some time, but you don't really have the resources to make him much better beyond what he already is on hard. Every tried bringing him to the tower on hard? It's a real pain. On normal, everyone can be made really good, because XP is so abundant. On hard you have little to no spare resources. This means units that join underleveled suffer (like Fiona), because they require more investment relative to the total resources you have. Same applies to units like Tormod that appear very little and aren't ready for Endgame. His performance changes very little in Part 1, but then he becomes basically unusable. On other difficulties he remains at least an option, because you have enough spare change you can throw at him, to make him good. Similar performance in 1 and not even an option in 4/5 sounds worse to me, no? Mind you, he's not the only one with this problem, just an example and probably not the best one I could have picked.

Lyre, Lethe, Kyza, Vika, Fiona, Nealuchi, Lucia, Astrid, Makalov, Pelleas, Kurth etc. all require some sort of extra investment, either to keep being useful or to make them worth using in the first place. So compared to a unit like Ike, who needs basically no extra investment at all on any difficulty, if there are less extra resources you can throw around they become worse (no WT also makes Ike better, but that isn't really relevant to my point). Hell even Jill suffers form this (though she's obviously still really good). Basically if a unit requires some moderate to significant investment at some point, that makes them a bit worse in general on normal mode, but a lot worse on hard.

That's fair!

My topic mainly refers to units who are a lot harder to use in hard mode than in normal mode.

In case of Tormod he still has access to lots of resources (refine, status items, bexp., paragon scroll) to be trained in 4-4.

 

Most of the Laguz are good example because it's way harder to give them ressources. They do not have access to a refine, arms scroll and get way less experience as Laguz.

Vika definitely has a way harder time in 4-4 than Tormod because of that.

But then again Vika is also really poor in normal mode, so I don't really think she really suffers from the difficulty jump.

Lethe and Lyre do more because at least latter fail to double and their output damage is so low.

Lyre cannot even ORKO a sage, if she could double.

Kurth is really terrible in endgame because he gets doubled by literally everyone including brave weapon knights in E-1

 

Funnily I find Fiona some kind of a victor because the removed weapon triangle gives better hitrates against slower enemies like fighters. 

But on the other hand, literally everyone who is not a mage and the boss doubles her in her debut chapter.

 

18 hours ago, Geenoble said:

Off the top of my head:

Victims:

- All the subpar (or already bad) Laguz which includes, Lyre, Kyza, Lethe, Vika, and Kurthnaga are much worse on Hard mode compared to normal mode. Hell Lyre is nearly unusuable.

- Aran

- Meg

 

Agreed with these ones, especially Aran, because he is a really god tank in normal mode, but in hard mode his defense doesn't matter anymore since he gets doubled.

If Meg gets one speed point for 1-4, at least no one aside of Agony can ORKO her.

 

I honestly disagree with Leonardo, simply because he fufills an important and kinda unique role for the DB.

He is the only real range weapon user in part 3, if Micaiah is busy with healing.

Even if he fails to double the tigers with Lughnasadh, I never really considered him being harder to use than in normal.

 

 

Winners:

- Haar. No WT means more hit vs swords and his stats are so good the increase in enemy stats doesn't matter.

Haar is banned.

- The BK. There's almost no reason to use him in normal mode really but in Hard he's very good for doing stuff in the final chapter such as attacking up ledges and taking on one half of the map while Nailah takes the other. In 3-6 he's also the only unit besides Tarvos Nolan and a slightly blessed Aran that can deal with multiple Tigers at once. Still a hard unit to rate otherwise but i find him better on Hard.

BK is definitely a good panic button in 1-E because he even can hit enemies who stand the ledge above of him.

 

Also Nephenee (without transfer boosts) comes in mind for being a "victim" because she has a really hard time in 2-1. 

The improved stats of the enemies don't allow her to double anything with the steel great lance.

And unlike Brom she cannot tank at all.

I consider 2-1 as the worst chapter in FE10 simply because of Nephenee's appearance.

And when she joins the GM's, there's basically no room for her anymore since she will join rather underleved.

Female Sentinel has great class caps, but Seraph Knights have a better mobility than her.

Edited by Falcom Knight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

You can argue Zihark and Volug become significantly better in HM, at least in relation to the team. Since it's a lot easier to train Edward & Nolan in NM, and even units like Aran, they aren't as especial. However, in HM, Volug is one of the very few units that can take over two hits from the strongest Tigers (41 Mt). Not only that, but access to things like Earth affinity and matches with +Def-boosting supports make his defense go even further. Even his offense doesn't fall behind. He doubles Cats, and onerounds them with something like Adept (oneshots with Beastfoe).

He does all of this without an ounce of resources, and that is worth mentioning.

- Zihark isn't nearly as bulky, but he makes up for it by being able to potentially pair up for 2-3 Double Earth supports (assuming you count Fiona). If you keep Adept on him, he's a really good candidate for Resolve. Double Earth + Resolve makes him untouchable, and his offense has the potential to be a lot better than Volug's, even. He can take advantage of Adept and critical to destroy enemies.

- Aran isn't actually nearly as bad. His Spd was never good to begin with, even by NM standards, but it's not like he's so slow that even Tigers will double him. Hardly makes a difference. On the flipside, his bulk does come in handy. He's one of the 3 or so Brigades that can succesfully tank Tigers, and he also hits pretty hard.

- Nephenee has a shaky Part 2, but it's not like it really counts for much. They're fairly quick chapters as it is, but she's really easy to get going beyond it. If anything, she's actually pretty decent in HM. She's very comparable to Mia, but then she also has access to 2-range as early as 3-8 (fairly big advantage). She's one of your few people in the Mercenaries that can double with solid offense (with Adept). Her Avo also becomes decent, thanks to being fast and somewhat decent Luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

True about Volug since he's the only one who can take two tits by tigers in hard mode.

 

Generic enemies in 1-E still have up to 17 AS, so Aran with his speed issue still can get 2RKO'ed. 

Though the main issue is that he has pretty much no spot in the DB. Hard mode is not made for experience sharing. If Fiona gets two speed Levels in her dbut chapter, she would be almost tied with Aran in taking damage. And her earth affinity is the reason I consider her even better than Aran in hard mode.

Edited by Falcom Knight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Falcom Knight said:

Generic enemies in 1-E still have up to 17 AS, so Aran with his speed issue still can get 2RKO'ed. 

Though the main issue is that he has pretty much no spot in the DB. Hard mode is not made for experience sharing. If Fiona gets two speed Levels in her dbut chapter, she would be almost tied with Aran in taking damage. And her earth affinity is the reason I consider her even better than Aran in hard mode.

Fighters and Soldiers rarely reach 17 AS, if I recall. It's only like 1-2 of the higher-levelled ones. The only ones that consistently reach that, and more, are Myrmidons (who deal neglegible damage). A trained Aran (aka the only reason you're bringing him to 1-E in the first place) is massively better than Fiona, even if he's getting doubled.

I'm going to compare them, assuming some levels and resources on them.

I estimate you can get Aran to lvl. 14 by the start of 1-E, even assuming somewhat a of brisk case (not necessarily LTC, which adds more points):

lvl. 14 Aran

HP: 32 (Angelic Robe)

Str: 15

Skill 17

Spd 12

Luck 8

Def 18 (Dracoshield)

Res 3

 

There's two Angelic Robes, and he's a good candidate for things like Secret Book and Dracoshield, for how quickly he caps Skill & Def. They're also fairly uncontested and just make his strengths, stronger. This is also without any BEXP. I counted around 2 Soldiers with 17 AS in 1-E, and they do between 24-26 Atk, and that's only 8x2 in the worst case scenario. Fighters don't double him, and there's only one Archer that's somewhat of a threat (one 17 AS/28 Atk Archer.

Since his affinity is also Thunder, he could easily have a +2 Def by this point.

 

Fiona,

lvl. 14. Yes, I'm assuming we're actually slowing down a lot... enough to give her 5 levels in only one chapter, since she literally doesn't exist until 1-E:

HP: 32 (Angelic Robe)
Str 12 (Energy Drop)
Skill 12 (Secret Book)
Spd 13
Luck 10
Def 13 (Dracoshield)
Res 9

 

She'd have virtually the same Spd as Aran, at the same level. That 1 extra point doesn't save her from the the outliers, and she's taking a lot more damage for it, even considering she took a Dracoshield. She could even take an extra point of Spd/Def through BEXP, only to take slightly less damage, but against 10% of the enemies. And it's not likely she'd have any supports to rely on by 1-E, so she'll still struggle with things like Atk, Hit and just about everything else. Even her supposed advantage of having a horse doesn't exist, because indoors. (thank you FE10).

 

I didn't mean to turn this into a debate, but it's just worth noting that Aran is far, far better than Fiona... or it's just that she's that bad, even when you turn things in her favour. Even Meg could be significaly better, considering all the chapters she has, and she's at least somewhat of a strong tank if you manage to get her there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

The biggest mistake I see people make in RD hard mode is using units in part 1 that will not benefit you in the much harder Dawn Brigade chapters in part 3. Units like tormod, nailah, vika and maurim will not be available in part 3 (they won't be around again until part 4 at the earliest), so they shouldn't be used at all, except when absolutely necessary. Other units that you shouldn't give a single kill towards if you can avoid it are the Black Knight (except in 1-9 of course) and Sothe. Sothe is a horrible unit and his only use is being unequipped and tanking hits early on or getting you out of a sticky situation. He is garbage in part 3 and later cause his growths are really bad. 

If you focus on giving most of your kills to Edward, Nolan, and Jill you will find the part 3 DB chapter's much easier and you'll have useful units for part 4 and the endgame. Edward will take a little bit of babying but it'll be more than worth it later on. Hard mode in RD is all about experience management in my opinion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...