The True Tragedy of Three Houses

[Darkmoon6789]

4 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

Honestly Edelgard's problem comes from a combination of ignorance, selfishness, and also the fact that she was never meant to be a leader. She had many siblings before her and was already unlikely to take the throne, and  the Insurrection of Seven guaranteed that she'd just be a figurehead leading in name only. So they never bothered to teach her how to be a leader. She grew up looking at her father being a shadow of his former self because of him losing power but then not realizing that it was a result of his tyranny. She grew up being told that the Leicaster Alliance and the Kingdom of Faerghus aren't real countries and that the church is responsible for separating them from the Empire and she believed it, having no way of knowing differently and no interest in other perspectives. So she never realizes that the Agarthans are far more dangerous than the church could ever be, because she wasn't really taught to think that way, nor is she surrounded with people who she is completely open with from the start that will give her constructive criticism, or is brutally honest with her, as even Byleth can't criticize her, nor is Byleth given any information to realize that Edelgard needs to be criticized.

Though Claude and Dimitri though I disagree that they solve everything in their routes, as in the case of Dimitri he points out that change needs to happen gradually in order for it to truly be effective and also in order to not leave society vulnerable. So Dimitri only introduces a small change that will allow for bigger reforms down the line. Yeah he does solve a lot of problems but it takes him dedicating his life to it for it to really start. A part of Claude development is him realizing that change can't happen overnight, that rushing in and doing things just doesn't work and that forcing change when the world isn't ready for it can cause more harm than good. Just like Dimitri he spends the rest of his life working for change. He makes progress but things don't change overnight. But both men do get rid of the Slithers which was standing in the way of reforms.

Actually it's mentioned a few times by different characters that Sothis was very much capable of reviving and has done so in the past. That's why they recognize Byleth as her incarnation despite not knowing that Rhea implanted Sothis's crest stone in Byleth. And also there is unused data for a playable Sothis that mentions her new body. So it seems that she was originally meant to revive.

As for your second point, consider Rhea's siblings and how they helped out humanity without expecting anything in return even after humanity killed their brethren, and how they did so until they eventually lost faith in humanity. In addition Cindered Shadows offered some credence to Rhea's statement and also gave the additional context to it since timeline wise

  Hide contents

Sothis would have said this before or after she flooded the world to save humanity from the Agarthans who had nuked the other continents because they wanted people to worship as gods. And they would have therefore have been Sothis's last words to Rhea and her children.

 

I agree with the ignorance bit, but how is wanting to help out the world at the cost of even your own life in any way selfish? She could have just ignored all of this and lived a peaceful life, but she doesn't because she is convinced that the current system is causing suffering every day, and she wants that suffering to end. How is anyone supposed to know how dangerous the Agarthans are without access to the information that Rhea is hoarding in any case? Ignorance is a direct result of keeping knowledge from the public and the war is therefore a consequence of the truth not being well-known. 

It is also worth addressing that it alerts system in crimson flower does indeed work, but maybe because Byleth and the rest influenced her to scale back are more radical ideas a bit. It is also important to note that Ferdinand does actually frequently disagree with her in this route and Edelgard is always respectful about these disagreements and actually listens to his advice.

This type of criticism is probably what Edelgard in other routes is missing however. A good ruler needs good advisors. 

[Crysta]

Edelgard is many things but being a poor leader isn't really one of them. She operates under her own biases, but she isn't alone in that regard. Far from it, really.

The Church is what gave the Crests their holy significance, and society naturally covets them for that and their power. Society isn't even aware of the machinations of Agarthans, whose influence is behind the scenes and far, far less overt. Getting rid of the Agarthans doesn't really dismantle the root problems that Edelgard clearly has the bigger problem with. That's how you can accidentally off them in AM and it doesn't change much at all.

All the leaders get "and everything was eventually alright" endings that are scarce on the details, but there's only so much you can place on a single ending card.

 

[Earth Worm Jim]

23 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I agree with the ignorance bit, but how is wanting to help out the world at the cost of even your own life in any way selfish? She could have just ignored all of this and lived a peaceful life, but she doesn't because she is convinced that the current system is causing suffering every day, and she wants that suffering to end. How is anyone supposed to know how dangerous the Agarthans are without access to the information that Rhea is hoarding in any case? Ignorance is a direct result of keeping knowledge from the public and the war is therefore a consequence of the truth not being well-known. 

It is also worth addressing that it alerts system in crimson flower does indeed work, but maybe because Byleth and the rest influenced her to scale back are more radical ideas a bit. It is also important to note that Ferdinand does actually frequently disagree with her in this route and Edelgard is always respectful about these disagreements and actually listens to his advice.

This type of criticism is probably what Edelgard in other routes is missing however. A good ruler needs good advisors. 

Except there is selfishness in her belief that she and she alone is worthy of ruling Fodlan, there is selfishness in her refusal to accept the Leicaster Alliance and the Kingdom of  Faerghus are sovereign nations literally hundreds of years after they gained their independence. We have to also recogize the fact that Edelgard did in fact take her revenge on the nobles that were responsible for her and her siblings' capture, as well as the fact that a part of Edelgard's problem with those who worship the goddess is that she blames the goddess for her plight. Edelgard isn't altruistic by any stretch of the imagination. Also Edelgard was in the perfect position to know that the Agarthans were dangerous considering that she knows that the Agarths were the ones that allowed the Insurrection of Seven to be the success that it was, they were also the ones that were able to kidnap, kill, and then impersonate a foreign dignitary and then also kill a foreign king. Those acts have red flags all over them, and if Edelgard was truly a careful leader she wouldn't have needed the nukes to be able to tell that the Agarthans were the bigger threat. For that matter, Rhea doesn't even know that they're still around so she's a not even in this equation. 

Actually, even in CF Edelgard isn't really surrounded people who are critical of her, as even Ferdinand tends to lick her boots, and Byleth in CF doesn't know anything or even realize that she needs to be criticized. In other routes you are aware that Edelgard needs to be criticized, but in CF you aren't made aware of that.

@CrystaActually now that I think about it, have we ever seen the nobles argue that the crests makes them better than others because they were given to them by the goddess? There are a lot of noble houses that actually don't have crests in all parts of Fodlan. In fact, we're told the opposite, that the nobles don't really care about the holy significance of the crests at all. It's not just the Agarthans of why I claim that Edelgard isn't a good leader, it's a part of the problem,  but not the full thing. It's her lack of communication skills, her inability to actually consider diplomacy as a viable option before acting. The fact that she prioritizes an enemy that can and does undermine her over an enemy that doesn't didn't even protest when they lost influence in her country, the fact that she lets the Slithers use her own people as experiments, and yes she does this even in CF. The fact that she expends her own forces in CF, VW, and SS instead of making the Slithers use up their own, etc.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Earth Worm Jim

[Crysta]

Edelgard makes it clear early on that she doesn't intend to remain in power.

The Agarthans are the lesser threat to her larger aim. They're dangerous, but they're not dictating government policy and social norms. I don't think it's firmly established anywhere that the Slitherers led the Insurrection: it was a power grab between the nobility that they and the corrupt nobility ultimately benefited from.

The lack of critical feedback plagues both CF and AM in spades, tbh.

 

 

 

[Darkmoon6789]

4 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

Except there is selfishness in her belief that she and she alone is worthy of ruling Fodlan, there is selfishness in her refusal to accept the Leicaster Alliance and the Kingdom of  Faerghus are sovereign nations literally hundreds of years after they gained their independence. We have to also recogize the fact that Edelgard did in fact take her revenge on the nobles that were responsible for her and her siblings' capture, as well as the fact that a part of Edelgard's problem with those who worship the goddess is that she blames the goddess for her plight. Edelgard isn't altruistic by any stretch of the imagination. Also Edelgard was in the perfect position to know that the Agarthans were dangerous considering that she knows that the Agarths were the ones that allowed the Insurrection of Seven to be the success that it was, they were also the ones that were able to kidnap, kill, and then impersonate a foreign dignitary and then also kill a foreign king. Those acts have red flags all over them, and if Edelgard was truly a careful leader she wouldn't have needed the nukes to be able to tell that the Agarthans were the bigger threat. For that matter, Rhea doesn't even know that they're still around so she's a not even in this equation.  Actually, even in CF Edelgard isn't really surrounded people who are critical of her, as even Ferdinand tends to lick her boots, and Byleth in CF doesn't know anything or even realize that she needs to be criticized.

She is under the impression that she alone can fix Fodlan, yes, but she really isn't intending to be the one to rule it. She plans on attending the Imperial royal line and stepping down, giving power to a successor. She isn't perfect by any means, but she does truly believe that that what she does is right. One of Edelgard's primary weaknesses is that she always chooses to be the one who carries the burden to fix the entire world. Her alliance with the Agarthans is actually just another piece of evidence that she puts her desire for revenge second to success in reforming the system.

She is aware that they are dangerous, yes, but not the full extent, she doesn't know the full extent of their power until after the javalin of light is used on Arianrhod. For all their technology and dark magic, the Agarthans lack any real numbers and is mostly a shadowy network with lots of influence, which is very difficult to fight due to being hard to track down every member. But I can also understand how they could be perceived as a secondary threat, compared to one that controls the entire continent.

[Crysta]

19 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

 

@CrystaActually now that I think about it, have we ever seen the nobles argue that the crests makes them better than others because they were given to them by the goddess? There are a lot of noble houses that actually don't have crests in all parts of Fodlan. In fact, we're told the opposite, that the nobles don't really care about the holy significance of the crests at all. It's not just the Agarthans of why I claim that Edelgard isn't a good leader, it's a part of the problem,  but not the full thing. It's her lack of communication skills, her inability to actually consider diplomacy as a viable option before acting. The fact that she prioritizes an enemy that can and does undermine her over an enemy that doesn't didn't even protest when they lost influence in her country, the fact that she lets the Slithers use her own people as experiments, and yes she does this even in CF. The fact that she expends her own forces in CF, VW, and SS instead of making the Slithers use up their own, etc.

 

There are several points in the story and in supports where they make it clear just how far the nobility is willing to go to acquire a crest in their bloodline, whether it's adopting people, taking several consorts to up the chances of conceiving a child with a crest, marrying daughters off to unsavory men, or unsavory men contemplating marrying their stepdaughters. You remember Miklan, right?

If you don't think the dominant world religion sanctioning Crests and calling them gifts from the goddess is significant, I don't know what to tell you. You're clearly playing a different game and reading a different story than the one they're trying to tell.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Crysta

[Darkmoon6789]

8 minutes ago, Crysta said:

There are several points in the story and in supports where they make it clear just how far the nobility is willing to go to acquire a crest in their bloodline, whether it's adopting people, taking several consorts to up the chances of conceiving a child with a crest, marrying daughters off to unsavory men, or unsavory men contemplating marrying their stepdaughters. You remember Miklan, right?

If you don't think the dominant world religion sanctioning Crests and calling them gifts from the goddess is significant, I don't know what to tell you. You're clearly playing a different game and reading a different story than the one they're trying to tell you. 

I keep hearing the claim that Edelgard is being wrong, that the crests are responsible a lot, but I think a lot of people just don't understand why she is so opposed to that system. In fact, the further I have gotten into the other routes, the more it is starting to become clear just how many people has suffered under that system. Quite a number of people should just join Edelgard really. That would fix a lot of their problems. Sylvain, Marianne, Lysithea, three people on the top of my head that have suffered because of crests.  In fact, so many people agree about this that sometimes I wonder why there is any conflict at all. Of course, the most messed up example of all when it comes to crest abuse is Edelgard and her siblings.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Darkmoon6789

[Earth Worm Jim]

1 minute ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

She is under the impression that she alone can fix Fodlan, yes, but she really isn't intending to be the one to rule it. She plans on attending the Imperial royal line and stepping down, giving power to a successor. She isn't perfect by any means, but she does truly believe that that what she does is right. One of Edelgard's primary weaknesses is that she always chooses to be the one who carries the burden to fix the entire world. Her alliance with the Agarthans is actually just another piece of evidence that she puts her desire for revenge second to success in reforming the system.

She is aware that they are dangerous, yes, but not the full extent, she doesn't know the full extent of their power until after the javalin of light is used on Arianrhod. For all their technology and dark magic, the Agarthans lack any real numbers and is mostly a shadowy network with lots of influence, which is very difficult to fight due to being hard to track down every member. But I can also understand how they could be perceived as a secondary threat, compared to one that controls the entire continent.

That is blatantly false because, she was planning on ruling the united Fodlan from the start, and she does rule it in all of her endings. She only steps in some of her endings, not all of them, so applying that to her character as whole is simply dishonest (she only steps down in 2 of her endings). Heck even when she does step down she does so when she's an old woman, when she's decided to retire. She steps down on her terms. Edelgard is changing things not just because she thinks its for the good of others but also for herself.

The simple fact that they can undermine the leaders of two different countries and completely mess up the infrastructure of the both countries should have set off warning signs in her head, if she was taught to think that way. What they can do in terms of suberfudge is far more dangerous than a dying religion fighting to stay relevant.

[Crysta]

1 minute ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

she does rule it in all of her endings. She only steps in some of her endings, not all of them

Which one is it. It's one or the other.

She rules it initially and hands it off. That doesn't go contrary to what she says she intends to do.

[Earth Worm Jim]

15 minutes ago, Crysta said:

There are several points in the story and in supports where they make it clear just how far the nobility is willing to go to acquire a crest in their bloodline, whether it's adopting people, taking several consorts to up the chances of conceiving a child with a crest, marrying daughters off to unsavory men, or unsavory men contemplating marrying their stepdaughters. You remember Miklan, right?

If you don't think the dominant world religion sanctioning Crests and calling them gifts from the goddess is significant, I don't know what to tell you. You're clearly playing a different game and reading a different story than the one they're trying to tell.

Except if you actually spoke with Slyvain, you know Miklan's brother you find out that house Gautier values crests because of the strength that they give their weilder on the battlefield. In fact Dimitri points out that this is true for the kingdom in general as they are under constant attack from their neighboring countries. The same might actually hold true for the Alliance as well, as they have the same problems with their neighbors. The only area where this isn't true is the Empire, because they don't have to deal with as many attacks.

It's not significant, because the nobles ultimately don't care about religion, but they do care about how useful crests actually are. Because crests do actually make people stronger on the battlefield which offers more opportunities to building a good rapport.

 

@Crystaboth of my statements are correct. Edelgard rules over all of Fodlan, as she intended to do from the very start, but she only steps down in two endings.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Earth Worm Jim

[Darkmoon6789]

6 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

That is blatantly false because, she was planning on ruling the united Fodlan from the start, and she does rule it in all of her endings. She only steps in some of her endings, not all of them, so applying that to her character as whole is simply dishonest (she only steps down in 2 of her endings). Heck even when she does step down she does so when she's an old woman, when she's decided to retire. She steps down on her terms. Edelgard is changing things not just because she thinks its for the good of others but also for herself.

The simple fact that they can undermine the leaders of two different countries and completely mess up the infrastructure of the both countries should have set off warning signs in her head, if she was taught to think that way. What they can do in terms of suberfudge is far more dangerous than a dying religion fighting to stay relevant.

I can.have this thing that I don't recognise the sovereignity of nations that oppresses their citizens, in my mind. Nationality is far less important than the quality of life for the average individual. This is more true of the kingdom of than the alliance, but I have noticed quite a bit of infighting between alliance nobles, but it really gives the impression that war is going on constantly anyway, without or with Edelgard. Primarily referring to the conflict between Lorenz and Acheron, but it is really treated like it is an everyday occurrence. 

Things of that kind of makes me think that Edelgard probably should occupy this place just to stop this nonsense. The alliance might not have a king, but the political squabbling is between the nobles is really killing the nation. 

Edit. Also, Edelgard's tea time conversations do also mention that she plans to step down

Edited February 24, 2020 by Darkmoon6789

[Crysta]

8 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

Except if you actually spoke with Slyvain, you know Miklan's brother you find out that house Gautier values crests because of the strength that they give their weilder on the battlefield. In fact Dimitri points out that this is true for the kingdom in general as they are under constant attack from their neighboring countries. The same might actually hold true for the Alliance as well, as they have the same problems with their neighbors. The only area where this isn't true is the Empire, because they don't have to deal with as many attacks.

It's not significant, because the nobles ultimately don't care about religion, but they do care about how useful crests actually are. Because crests do actually make people stronger on the battlefield which offers more opportunities to building a good rapport.

Not every crest bearer is going to wield a single relic, and it's clear the noble lines value quantity. The Kingdom has only Sreng to really contend with, and they've been recently subjugated by the start of the story. It is clear crests have significant social value beyond just wielding bone weapons. Goneril and Gautier clearly don't mind lending out those relics to you, so it's clear they're not needed 100% of the time against the ever present foreign invaders.

The nobility is very concerned with religion. Traditionally it is the archbishop who crowns the emperor, and that tradition seems to hold even after the collapse of the Southern Church. Lorenz and Claude do a good job outlining just how fast they hold the Seiros tenets, and the latter explains why Rhea returning is an obstacle to his plans and why he isn't really looking forward to it. You don't seem to be paying attention.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Crysta

[Earth Worm Jim]

11 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I can.have this thing that I don't recognise the sovereignity of nations that oppresses their citizens, in my mind. Nationality is far less important than the quality of life for the average individual. This is more true of the kingdom of than the alliance, but I have noticed quite a bit of infighting between alliance nobles, but it really gives the impression that war is going on constantly anyway, without or with Edelgard. Primarily referring to the conflict between Lorenz and Acheron, but it is really treated like it is an everyday occurrence. 

Things of that kind of makes me think that Edelgard probably should occupy this place just to stop this nonsense. The alliance might not have a king, but the political squabbling is between the nobles is really killing the nation. 

Edit. Also, Edelgard's tea time conversations do also mention that she plans to step down

Except, the Kingdom doesn't oppress it's citizens, just the opposite really. The Kingdom is the only country where the people actually like the nobles who rule over them. The Kingdom's problem as pointed out by Slyvain was simply the fact that it needed a strong Monarch, which is why they wanted Dimitri to give up on his revenge and to take up the throne as quickly as possible. Heck the Alliance, their problem is the nobles infighting, not the oppression. The oppression is mostly a problem in the Empire's nobles. In fact, by this logic, the Empire shouldn't be recognized as a sovereign nation because it regularly oppresses it's people, and Edelgard should allow Claude and Dimitri to occupy the nation in order to stop the nobles.

And Edelgard doesn't step down in most of her endings.

@CrystaGonreil and Gautier don't mind loaning their weapons to their heirs so that they can get the hang of using them. In the case of Gautier he wants Slyvain to accept his responsibility as the his heir. And yeah they don't mind loaning their weapons to their heirs since they still have their crests to give them a boost in battle anyway.

The nobility isn't concerned with religion, it's pointed out by both Ferdinand, and Lorenz in their supports that the nobles don't care, and heck in CF, Lorenz takes it a step further and points out that if the nobles show that they care for the religion it's only to make them look good in the eyes of the people. Also you speak of me not paying attention but then ignore the fact, that Claude's whole point is how little he actually understands Fodlan until he speaks with Rhea. Heck he really only agrees with Edelgard until he speaks with Rhea because he doesn't understand Fodlan. This is the same guy that honestly thought that people would accept him simply because he had a crest. The archbishop crowing the emperor is simply just tradition, she holds no power in the empire. Case in point the Southern church was kicked out and Rhea couldn't do anything about it.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Earth Worm Jim

[Crysta]

You do realize that the nobility of the Kingdom has overseen a genocide, right?

[Darkmoon6789]

2 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

Except, the Kingdom doesn't oppress it's citizens, just the opposite really. The Kingdom is the only country where the people actually like the nobles who rule over them. The Kingdom's problem as pointed out by Slyvain was simply the fact that it needed a strong Monarch, which is why they wanted Dimitri to give up on his revenge and to take up the throne as quickly as possible. Heck the Alliance, their problem is the nobles infighting, not the oppression. The oppression is mostly a problem in the Empire's nobles. In fact, by this logic, the Empire shouldn't be recognized as a sovereign nation because it regularly oppresses it's people, and Edelgard should allow Claude and Dimitri to occupy the nation in order to stop the nobles.

And Edelgard doesn't step down in most of her endings.

She she does, however, step down in ending with Byleth, which I would argue is the most important ending due to being the only one with an animated cutscene. Even in the endings she doesn't step down. She still does a really good job as Emperor, one of the best ones are being where she marries Ferdinand. 

Edelgard also went through great effort in order to reshape the Empire and get rid of the corrupt nobles, she needs absolutely no help with this. By the way, the problem I have with kingdom is just how much influence the church has over it, pretty much it doesn't allow for religious freedom. And a feudal society where people their rulers is still a feudal society. But I guess I can make the same argument with Edelgard in that just because people are like their emperor doesn't mean she isn't an absolute monarch. 

Oh and the Tragedy of Duskur thing, even if that is technically the fourth of Thales. It is kind of ridiculous how many scapegoats are blamed for this incident, there is literally several layers of false culprits

[Earth Worm Jim]

4 minutes ago, Crysta said:

You do realize that the nobility of the Kingdom has overseen a genocide, right?

You do realize that this happened because they though that Duscar was behind their king's assassination right?

[Crysta]

3 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

You do realize that this happened because they though that Duscar was behind their king's assassination right?

You do realize that it's clearly not true, it didn't really matter, and actually played a large part in the death of the previous king?

"But genocide is justified if you think an entire race of people is responsible" is quite the take, though.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Crysta

[Darkmoon6789]

2 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

You do realize that this happened because they though that Duscar was behind their king's assassination right?

Still not a good excuse for genocide against an entire people. I am actually not sure why they went with such drastic measures or who is fault that really was. But it was probably Thales somehow. I just know that it sure as hell wasn't Edelgard

[Crysta]

They did it because they were the easiest scapegoat.

The Kingdom nobility is trash lmao

[Darkmoon6789]

Just now, Crysta said:

They did it because they were the easiest scapegoat.

The Kingdom nobility is trash lmao

Everyone's nobility sucks.

♪Hail the mighty Edelgard, though red blood stains her story…♪
Heavy as her crown may be, she will lead us all to glory… To a brighter dawn, we shall carry on… Hail Edelgard!♪

What wouldn't I give to actually see that Opera play out. I kind of wonder how Edelgard's story would be depicted in this future. Probably some kind of idealised version while Edelgard feels guilt watching the events unfolding on stage. I always kind of seen Edelgard as struggling with massive guilt after the war. 

[Earth Worm Jim]

13 minutes ago, Crysta said:

You do realize that it's clearly not true, it didn't really matter, and actually resulted in the death of the previous king?

"But genocide is justified if you think an entire race of people is responsible" is quite the take, though.

I never said that it was justified, only that it happened because the Kingdom was lead to believe that Duscar, a foreign country was responsible for the assassination of their king and several high ranking nobles, in addition to the destabilization of their country. They had no way of knowing that Thales was behind it. Also you do realize that the tragedy happened in Duscar right? They didn't blame them for no reason.

 

15 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

She she does, however, step down in ending with Byleth, which I would argue is the most important ending due to being the only one with an animated cutscene. Even in the endings she doesn't step down. She still does a really good job as Emperor, one of the best ones are being where she marries Ferdinand. 

Edelgard also went through great effort in order to reshape the Empire and get rid of the corrupt nobles, she needs absolutely no help with this. By the way, the problem I have with kingdom is just how much influence the church has over it, pretty much it doesn't allow for religious freedom. And a feudal society where people their rulers is still a feudal society. But I guess I can make the same argument with Edelgard in that just because people are like their emperor doesn't mean she isn't an absolute monarch. 

Oh and the Tragedy of Duskur thing, even if that is technically the fourth of Thales. It is kind of ridiculous how many scapegoats are blamed for this incident, there is literally several layers of false culprits

You're being dishonest again. That isn't her only ending, and if you have to ignore other parts of the game to suit your narrative then there is a problem with your logic. As she still doesn't always step down, contrary to what she says.

The church had no more influence over the Kingdom than it had over the Empire. Rhea actually has zero political power in the Kingdom and they at best only used her as a symbol of unification but she kept a hands off approach to the nations. In fact, the reason for Christophe's execution was because the Kingdom found out that he was effectively trying to assassinate a foreign dignitary of an allied Nation. Actually, now that I think about it, the only problem with the Kingdom was the Western Church starting trouble, but then again even that was because of the Slithers infiltrating it.

I know, but as far as the Kingdom knew the Duscarans were behind the assassination. The Kingdom had no way of knowing that the Thales was behind everything. And it was the commoners who blamed the Duscar since tragedy happened in Duscar.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Earth Worm Jim

[Crysta]

1 minute ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

I never said that it was justified, only that it happened because the Kingdom was lead to believe that Duscar, a foreign country was responsible for the assassination of their king and several high ranking nobles, in addition to the destabilization of their country.

You didn't say it, but you're clearly implying it's less bad and the Kingdom nobility is less keen on oppression.

Which is hilariously incorrect.

[Earth Worm Jim]

5 minutes ago, Crysta said:

You didn't say it, but you're clearly implying it's less bad and the Kingdom nobility is less keen on oppression.

Which is hilariously incorrect.

Actually, what I said was correct, and the fact you legitimately had to ignore the fact that both the nobles and the commoners alike blamed Duscar for the assassination of their king and the destabilization of their nation, after their king was killed in Duscar with many other high ranking nobles says a lot. You are literally arguing that a nation is oppressive because they stroke back against a foreign entity that they believed wronged them. You aren't arguing about how they treat their own people, you're basing your view on how they treat their enemies. Which is hilariously incorrect.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Earth Worm Jim

[Crysta]

7 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

Actually, what I said was correct, and the fact you legitimately had to ignore the fact that both the nobles and the commoners alike blamed Duscar for the assassination of their king and the destabilization of their nation, after their king was killed in Duscar with many other high ranking nobles. You are literally arguing that a nation is oppressive because they stroke back against a foreign entity that they believe wronged them. You aren't arguing about how they treat their own people, you're basing your view on how they treat their enemies. Which is hilariously incorrect.

The commoners joining in is irrelevant. We're talking about the nobility, who hold the sway.

They have to make a giant leap in logic to think an entire race is responsible for the death of their monarch. They just don't care. Trash, in other words. Are you arguing that only oppression against their own people counts?

The church influence is more saturated in the kingdom, btw. It isn't called the Holy Kingdom for nothing. Catherine makes it clear the church stepped in and took over law enforcement in the aftermath of that massacre, which included the execution of Cristoph.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Crysta

[Darkmoon6789]

2 minutes ago, Earth Worm Jim said:

I never said that it was justified, only that it happened because the Kingdom was lead to believe that Duscar, a foreign country was responsible for the assassination of their king and several high ranking nobles, in addition to the destabilization of their country.

 

You're being dishonest again. That isn't her only ending, and if you have to ignore other parts of the game to suit your narrative then there is a problem with your logic. As she still doesn't always step down, contrary to what she says.

The church had no more influence over the Kingdom than it had over the Empire. Rhea actually has zero political power in the Kingdom and they at best only used her as a symbol of unification but she kept a hands off approach to the nations. In fact, the reason for Christophe's execution was because the Kingdom found out that he was effectively trying to assassinate a foreign dignitary of an allied Nation. Actually, now that I think about it, the only problem with the Kingdom was the Western Church starting trouble, but then again even that was because of the Slithers infiltrating it.

I know, but as far as the Kingdom knew the Duscarans were behind the assassination.

It is the ending I got however, so screw it. I think it is kind of silly try to figure out some average version of events based on the number of endings, leading to a certain event, in a game with multiple timelines like this, you need to specify a version and stick to it. Crimson flower Edelgard is straight up not the same Edelgard as in Azure Moon. 

I think the fact that so many people have so many different interpretations of events is more than enough proof of how grey this entire conflict really is. Sure, we can all pretend that our interpretation is the only correct one, but that would be dishonest. 

I am only stating my interpretation of events, which is indeed coloured by how strong my feelings are for Edelgard. But affection like this exists at a far deeper level than just attraction, I saw something deep within the soul of this character that is truly beautiful. Even if I did. I agree that Edelgard was entirely the wrong, I still would find the idea of her being hurt as a consequence distasteful. Especially for a barbaric idea of justice. 

What about this for honesty, none of our perspectives is more valid than the other. We asked all happen to believe in our own way of thinking.

.