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The True Tragedy of Three Houses

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13 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I would say that the claim that either is entirely to blame or entirely in the right is ignoring the reality of warfare. Things are simply more nuanced than that. It is easy to play the blame game, but it is a pointless endeavour, I think the actions of both makes sense given the circumstances. 

I have long made the claim that the only thing that matters in war is a victory, because history will nearly always perceive the winner as the good guys, historically only the losers ever face consequences for potential atrocities committed during a war, and nearly every nation is responsible for at least some. How history is written will determine how people like Dimitri, Edelgard, Claude or Rhea are remembered, and how that history will be told, will depend on who is still alive to write the history. Or do you think that the potential winners would be honest enough to write down what these people were really like without making them into caricatures?

How history is precisely written is what bothers me the most from Crimson Flower's ending as apparently the japanese translation was that the other two lands were wiped clean (I'll look for it again just to make sure) and it doesn't help that omega mentioned earlier that it was a historian's point of view about that which doesn't help but of course a nation's history never labels itself as the bad guy which the USA isn't the only one that has its own darkness like Japan and so forth but I don't want to get off topic.

Edit: (I need to call it a night)

Edited by AbsoluteZer0Nova

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Even if he wasn't spurred by revenge, I think Dimitri likely would have sided with Rhea just by the conclusion he ultimately reaches in AM. I think the invasion may have happened even if he for some reason refrained from taking in Rhea, too, because Edelgard didn't really have that justification to use against Claude/the Alliance.

So I'm about as engaged with this point of contention as much as I was with the "Edelgard burned Bernie!" thing.

Edited by Crysta

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2 minutes ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

How history is precisely written is what bothers me the most from Crimson Flower's ending as apparently the japanese translation was that the other two lands were wiped clean (I'll look for it again just to make sure) and it doesn't help that omega mentioned earlier that it was a historian's point of view about that which doesn't help but of course a nation's history never labels itself as the bad guy which the USA isn't the only one that has its own darkness like Japan and so forth but I don't want to get off topic.

Wiped clean as in their history was quite clean? Somehow I don't feel like that wouldn't make sense for Edelgard to do considering how much she hates the church's fabrication of history. But I guess this could also been in the later generations when telling the history about Edelgard's conquests. It makes sense that they would be trying to present her as the hero in this timeline, I wonder if she would have been villainised the other timelines, or if they would have mentioned her rather complicated nature and misguided intentions. I guess the details often gets lost to time. I wonder how much of a hand Edelgard and the others would really have in the writing of history. 

In any case, there is nothing present in English that would suggest this. 

 

6 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Even if he wasn't spurred by revenge, I think Dimitri likely would have sided with Rhea just by the conclusion he ultimately reaches in AM. I think that may have happened even if he for some reason refrained from taking in Rhea, too, because Edelgard didn't really have that justification to use against Claude/the Alliance.

So I'm about as engaged with this point of contention as much as I was with the "Edelgard burned Bernie!" thing.

Of course I don't blame Dimitri from allying with Rhea, it makes sense given the circumstances. Another reason I think finger pointing is useless, I generally do not think anyone in this entire game is truly evil, except for the Slitherers. I think this was the entire point of the thread, ultimately, it all comes down to misunderstanding, misinformation and a stubborn refusal to hear what the others have to say

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45 minutes ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

I genuinely want to understand where he's coming from with Dimitri is to blame for harboring Rhea when as @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate stated before why it doesn't make a lick of sense of it being fair to say Dimitri is responsible for what happened to the kingdom. Like that gives Edelgard the complete justified right to come through Faerghus as she pleases to get her? That wouldn't slide irl where other people would find it abhorrent. If Dimitri was granting sanctuary to someone that had openly proven crimes against humanity than that would be a better case, but here it's Edelgard's word alone.

. . .then say it like that.  "Siding" already tells the other guy that you're biased, so there's no real discussion that CAN take place.

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One problem here is that one of Edelgard's main manifestos to the world was the Church are evil because they manipulated Kingdom and Alliance to succeed from the Empire. The truth here was debatable especially with new DLC, but that's for another topic.

The point here is such condition would never be accepted by Kingdom and Alliance, since agreeing it would invalid their claim of sovereignty. As so the Empire is in a irreconcilable position with other nations since they are basically saying other nations are illegitimate governments created by the church, thus rendering peace term between very difficult if not impossible.

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11 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .then say it like that.  "Siding" already tells the other guy that you're biased, so there's no real discussion that CAN take place.

I am obviously biased and in what direction should be obvious for anyone, but I try my best to remain objective, or at least as objective as is possible. It is part of why I try to not blame the other sides involved in the war either. Everyone did what made sense from their perspective. The mark of a true tragedy. 

I have to apologise if I sometimes pre-emptively anticipate an argument against Edelgard and counter it before it has even been mentioned. I have some bad experiences arguing about Edelgard on other sites, so I have come to expect certain things.

I love how calm the people on this site is in general. One of the only times I haven't felt the attacked for my perspective.

It is also wonderful to see this topic so active

2 minutes ago, Timlugia said:

One problem here is that one of Edelgard's main manifestos to the world was the Church are evil because they manipulated Kingdom and Alliance to succeed from the Empire. The truth here was debatable especially with new DLC, but that's for another topic.

The point here is such condition would never be accepted by Kingdom and Alliance, since agreeing it would invalid their claim of sovereignty. As so the Empire is in a irreconcilable position with other nations since they are basically saying other nations are illegitimate governments created by the church, thus rendering peace term between very difficult if not impossible.

I still bet that Edelgard believed every single word of what was written in that manifesto. It is completely possible she did consider the other governments illegitimate. Which does make sense if she believes the narrative that the church has controlled and shaped Fodlan to its own purposes for a millennium. She does in a way want to restore Fodlan to what it was before the split, just with new reformed policies she believes will make life better for everyone.

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1 minute ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I am obviously biased and in what direction should be obvious for anyone, but I try my best to remain objective, or at least as objective as is possible. It is part of why I try to not blame the other sides involved in the war either. Everyone did what made sense from their perspective. The mark of a true tragedy. 

I have to apologise if I sometimes pre-emptively anticipate an argument against Edelgard and counter it before it has even been mentioned. I have some bad experiences arguing about Edelgard on other sites, so I have come to expect certain things.

I love how calm the people on this site is in general. One of the only times I haven't felt the attacked for my perspective.

It is also wonderful to see this topic so active

Having a personal bias is fine, as long as you can remain objective.  It sounds like you're striving for that!  I may not always agree with you, but know that I'll probably respect your opinion.

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6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Having a personal bias is fine, as long as you can remain objective.  It sounds like you're striving for that!  I may not always agree with you, but know that I'll probably respect your opinion.

Thanks, respecting each other's opinions is really what everyone should do in civilised debates. To me, Edelgard is really just a girl with a good heart that did some bad things because she thought they were necessary. I think that ultimately most characters in three houses are well-intentioned, which is what makes this story so tragic. 

It is literally impossible for everyone to agree at all times, what is important is to listen, something that if more people in this game did could have avoided a continental conflict.

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Oh wow. This thread absolutely exploded overnight. Was going to respond to some stuff from the first page, but it hardly seems relevant now.

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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh wow. This thread absolutely exploded overnight. Was going to respond to some stuff from the first page, but it hardly seems relevant now.

Never seen this much discussion in one day since I joined this site, which admittedly wasn't very long ago. 

You know, I did always assume that Duke Aegir worked for Arundel, and for this reason I made the interpretation that those slither in the dark, has had influence in the Empire for quite a while. 

There are a lot of signs to suggest that Edelgard was meant to be another puppet and that she essentially got tricked into starting the war for them. 

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I think most of the users who gravitate to these sort of threads have played all or most of the routes, so they're better at arguing the details instead of sticking with the broad strokes and generalizations.

But I see no problem with kicking up a prior conversation again in the same thread, even if it's been awhile since we've been on the topic. I literally just dropped into the middle of another conversation because I'm rude like that.

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4 minutes ago, Crysta said:

I think most of the users who gravitate to these sort of threads have played all or most of the routes, so they're better at arguing the details instead of sticking with the broad strokes and generalizations.

But I see no problem with kicking up a prior conversation again in the same thread, even if it's been awhile since we've been on the topic. I literally just dropped into the middle of another conversation because I'm rude like that.

To be honest, I haven't finished every route yet, I am mostly just been picking up information from various threads, and I do seek to understand the bigger picture. (Spoilers usually doesn't bother me, I am usually still interested to see things in person to better understand context)

I have played through crimson flower entirely so I have the greatest knowledge about that path, I am partwise through a maddening golden deer run (which got paused for cindered shadows), and I am watching a let's play of a Blue Lions run, which was actually what inspired me to get the game in the first place. But I am not even remotely close to done with the Golden Deer and the Blue Lions. 

I actually have some hesitation with the Blue Lions run in particular due to some of the things I heard about it, I am really attached to Edelgard, I really don't enjoy seeing her get hurt. I consider Dimitri a great character, but I seriously don't like how Dimitri blames Edelgard for something she didn't even do. It is not his fault, but is still hard for me to watch

I know, I am being silly, I do have to get through this run eventually to have a true understanding of the game

If my knowledge of the game seems incomplete, this would be why.

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You know, I'm really happy to see that other people think that Dimitri, BL and Fearghus feel... wrong sometimes. A lot of times.

Another It also kinda sorta weird me out that CF Felix is supposed to be bad and feel bad when everything he thought about his country is proven correct. Obviously he should feel bad -it's his old friends and his dad after all- but beyond that ? I don't think he is a boar at all.

7 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also, yeah, Faerghus sucks as a nation. It's the most toxic environment. Teaching kids how to fight before they write basically promotes them to be violent. It's why Faerghus actually went crazy and committed genocide. No nation ever displayed this type of horrific act. It's why when Ingrid doesn't pursue her dream to be a knight but actually takes a step back and reevaluate things, she helps turn a frigid wasteland into a bountiful field. 

First, amen to that, secondly, you forgot the part where AM Dimitri is welcomed back with utter adoration from his country to the point of rebelling apparently, despite Dimitri having done less than christian things, despite not caring about them. (I'm not confounding with VW or SS do I ? It's hard keep track at times)
And okay, in AM it's hearthwarming because Dimitri started to get a grip, but think a little, and that's less fuzzy.

 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Oh wow. This thread absolutely exploded overnight. Was going to respond to some stuff from the first page, but it hardly seems relevant now.

First time ? 😛
Ahaha... yeah same for me.

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13 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

You know, I'm really happy to see that other people think that Dimitri, BL and Fearghus feel... wrong sometimes. A lot of times.

Another It also kinda sorta weird me out that CF Felix is supposed to be bad and feel bad when everything he thought about his country is proven correct. Obviously he should feel bad -it's his old friends and his dad after all- but beyond that ? I don't think he is a boar at all.

First, amen to that, secondly, you forgot the part where AM Dimitri is welcomed back with utter adoration from his country to the point of rebelling apparently, despite Dimitri having done less than christian things, despite not caring about them. (I'm not confounding with VW or SS do I ? It's hard keep track at times)
And okay, in AM it's hearthwarming because Dimitri started to get a grip, but think a little, and that's less fuzzy.

 

First time ? 😛
Ahaha... yeah same for me.

We did actually recruit Felix for Crimson Flower, mainly justice due to convenience because our Byleth specialised in sword, but as we never used him in battle, just as adjutant, he never did kill his father. 

Is it weird that I am less comfortable with some of the stuff Dimitri does than I am with Edelgard? I guess it kind of comes down to this quote from Linkara, which is also apparently from the movie Camelot:
"revenge, the most worthless of causes".

At least Edelgard has a cause worth a damn, I am glad that Dimitri gets over this obsession with revenge, but I am still to see that in person

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Can I ask a question? Why does Dimitri think Edelgard is responsible for Duscur? Is this his mad logic at work? She started the war against the church so she must be responsible for Duscur too? Or did someone drip poison in his ear, metaphorically speaking? 

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4 minutes ago, Licoriceallsorts said:

Can I ask a question? Why does Dimitri think Edelgard is responsible for Duscur? Is this his mad logic at work? She started the war against the church so she must be responsible for Duscur too? Or did someone drip poison in his ear, metaphorically speaking? 

Because his investigation lead to the Flame Emperor's organizzation, so he assumed the FE was guilty of everything, not knowing about the Slithers. Then he had a total breakdown when he found out who the FE is and went insane.

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8 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

See, as you bring it up, negotiations could have been on the table.

The problem though I realize in this hypothetical king scenario is whether such a rational king would exist given Faerghus's toxic culture.

It cuts both ways, though - sure, it would be nice for someone to try to negotiate a peaceful settlement between the Empire and the Church. At the same time, though, Edelgard could have attempted to pressure the Church diplomatically, before going to war. Instead, she launches a sneak attack to steal the Crest Stones - one that might have been successful, were she not foolish enough to launch it with two of the most powerful beings in Fódlan right there.

Asking Rhea and the Nabateans to leave would have likely been unsuccessful, but at least she could say she tried diplomacy. You mention the manifestos as a diplomatic move, and that's true - but they were specifically used as a justification for belligerence against the Church. Edelgard has war on her mind from the start, and Dimitri responds in kind - neither is totally justified.

Anyway, generally agreed on the topic of issues with Faerghus' culture. The "fully rational king" was, admittedly, always a hypothetical. Given that, however, we can't fully blame the Kingdom's participation in the War on Dimitri's thirst for revenge. It's unquestionably there, but there are other reasons for his actions. It's a mistake, I think, to assume Dimitri's motives and mindset are the same between routes - especially considering that, in CF, he still has Rhea, Dedue, Rodrigue, Gilbert, and several old classmates at his side. I think that's why he never makes a "suicide charge", as he did at Gronder, nor does he transform into a Demonic Beast, despite apparently having the means to. He recognizes his responsibility, as the leader of Faerghus, to survive - but also to stand his ground against an invading foe.

8 hours ago, Axel987 said:

Relay orders in a vast battlefield with rain that is already interrupting communications with their allies and slowing their own movement, taking up even more time as the empire continues to march on them? If it was something that happens before the battle even begins I could think it more reasonable but by the time one even turns into a monster, you can have killed off several of them already. It's really not a position in which he was particularly able of doing much other than begrudingly standby lol. I'd harken it to the non-CF situation with the Hrym territories where Edelgard's hand is tied too and she's effectively forced to comply.

Either way, thanks for the good conversation the past couple hours. It's getting real late here so I think I'll bowe out now, have a good one.

Agreed. Maybe Dimitri could have done more to stop his soldiers - and he probably would have, had the situation not been so desperate. But even if he gave the order, explicitly, most of the soldiers would have likely disobeyed (their transormation being an act of disobedience in the first place). And if Dimitri is to fault for his soldiers' drastic move, then Edelgard is at least as much at fault, for committing to war with Faerghus, thus creating this dire scenario.

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32 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It cuts both ways, though - sure, it would be nice for someone to try to negotiate a peaceful settlement between the Empire and the Church. At the same time, though, Edelgard could have attempted to pressure the Church diplomatically, before going to war. Instead, she launches a sneak attack to steal the Crest Stones - one that might have been successful, were she not foolish enough to launch it with two of the most powerful beings in Fódlan right there.

Asking Rhea and the Nabateans to leave would have likely been unsuccessful, but at least she could say she tried diplomacy. You mention the manifestos as a diplomatic move, and that's true - but they were specifically used as a justification for belligerence against the Church. Edelgard has war on her mind from the start, and Dimitri responds in kind - neither is totally justified.

Anyway, generally agreed on the topic of issues with Faerghus' culture. The "fully rational king" was, admittedly, always a hypothetical. Given that, however, we can't fully blame the Kingdom's participation in the War on Dimitri's thirst for revenge. It's unquestionably there, but there are other reasons for his actions. It's a mistake, I think, to assume Dimitri's motives and mindset are the same between routes - especially considering that, in CF, he still has Rhea, Dedue, Rodrigue, Gilbert, and several old classmates at his side. I think that's why he never makes a "suicide charge", as he did at Gronder, nor does he transform into a Demonic Beast, despite apparently having the means to. He recognizes his responsibility, as the leader of Faerghus, to survive - but also to stand his ground against an invading foe.

Agreed. Maybe Dimitri could have done more to stop his soldiers - and he probably would have, had the situation not been so desperate. But even if he gave the order, explicitly, most of the soldiers would have likely disobeyed (their transormation being an act of disobedience in the first place). And if Dimitri is to fault for his soldiers' drastic move, then Edelgard is at least as much at fault, for committing to war with Faerghus, thus creating this dire scenario.

The fully rational thing may have worked with -another- character(While a fearsome warrior as stated through his campaign in Gautier/Sreng territory, Lambert was actively employing diplomacy with Duscur before he got assasinated) but being irrational is an inherent part of Dimitri's character for most of the game, so the hypothetical would have to make a lot of assumptions to work with him. While partly to blame I wouldn't put all of the 'not rational' aspects unto the actively toxic culture though since the inciting factor for said irrationality is steeped in survivor's guilt leading to severe mental illness. Multiple factors that led to it in the end.

And yeah, as I said while his own personal motivator stems from the invading force being led by the focus of his want for vengeance, he is also acting to defend his home, his friends and his subjects, as seen by his dialogue with Dedue if you take him out first. One does not drown out the other and both are understandable reasons.

49 minutes ago, Licoriceallsorts said:

Can I ask a question? Why does Dimitri think Edelgard is responsible for Duscur? Is this his mad logic at work? She started the war against the church so she must be responsible for Duscur too? Or did someone drip poison in his ear, metaphorically speaking? 

Part 1 has a scene where the Flame Emperor directly blames Thales for Duscur, who then responds by saying it was all done FOR the Flame Emperor, implying they could have ordered it or inherently benefitted from it. The Flame Emperor also does not deny that. The Flame Emperor disowns the actions of TWSITD earlier into the plot and says they would have acted against them if they knew, however continues to be allied with them, moving forward from the murder of Jeralt and the use of Crest Beasts in the Holy Tomb. This inherently implicates them as someone not worthy of trust, which Dimitri already believed meaning it only confirmed his doubt of their words. Furthermore he has been investigating Lord Arundel for some time before the game's plot occurs and guess what? Edelgard is Lord Arundel's niece. By the time the reveal happens he has no reason to trust her saying she didn't do it, because she's already established herself as an active liar and manipulator.

It's a lot of incidental evidence and Dramatic Irony plays into it for sure since you, as the player, would know it WASN'T her, as brought up by Omegaxis1, in that she was held in Enbarr and being experimented on at the time, but -he- doesn't know that. Nobody knows all the facts and with what he was -actively- presented I can definitely see why he thought it was her.

Edited by Axel987

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You know, since this thread is talking about the tragedy of how our reality clashes with others, let's take a moment to actually discuss how the others perceive reality as well.

2 hours ago, B.Leu said:

Another It also kinda sorta weird me out that CF Felix is supposed to be bad and feel bad when everything he thought about his country is proven correct. Obviously he should feel bad -it's his old friends and his dad after all- but beyond that ? I don't think he is a boar at all.

The irony is that he actually does become the boar in VW/SS, in how he actually feels a need to get revenge for Dimitri and just has a desire to fight and kill to pay tribute to the dead. The reason I feel he thinks he's like the boar is because he feels an inability to endure the guilt that he is fighting and killing friends and countrymen alike. 

He does believe in the cause to an extent, but killing people you once knew is hard to endure. 

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

You know, since this thread is talking about the tragedy of how our reality clashes with others, let's take a moment to actually discuss how the others perceive reality as well.

The irony is that he actually does become the boar in VW/SS, in how he actually feels a need to get revenge for Dimitri and just has a desire to fight and kill to pay tribute to the dead. The reason I feel he thinks he's like the boar is because he feels an inability to endure the guilt that he is fighting and killing friends and countrymen alike. 

He does believe in the cause to an extent, but killing people you once knew is hard to endure. 

Felix is my favourite character in the game and it is deeply ironic that no matter what he ends up taking upon himself some of the parts of Dimitri that he -hates- if he is recruited out of the Blue Lions. I saw an interesting thread about it on tumblr a while back;

https://purplespacefairy.tumblr.com/post/188460069325/negative-character-development-felix-in-crimson

 

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11 minutes ago, Axel987 said:

Felix is my favourite character in the game and it is deeply ironic that no matter what he ends up taking upon himself some of the parts of Dimitri that he -hates- if he is recruited out of the Blue Lions. I saw an interesting thread about it on tumblr a while back;

https://purplespacefairy.tumblr.com/post/188460069325/negative-character-development-felix-in-crimson

In CF, he thinks he's just like Dimitri. In VW/SS, he doesn't think that, but does become like Dimitri. That's the irony, as he doesn't even realize it. Just because you think you've become like someone doesn't mean you have. 

You know, it's actually amazing how Felix is the only character from Faerghus to realize how messed up Faerghus's culture is about how it treats knights. Where Rodrigue and Ingrid basically doubled down on the culture and believe that knighthood is great, they overall try and glorify Glenn's death. 

In a way, it's another clash of reality here.

Where Rodrigue and Ingrid refuse to believe that Glenn died a horrible way, but instead died a noble death as a knight, they can try and keep the memory of Glenn in a positive way. Felix, on the other hand, just sees it as a disgusting that they would treat Glenn's death in such a manner and delude themselves into thinking otherwise. 

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33 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

In CF, he thinks he's just like Dimitri. In VW/SS, he doesn't think that, but does become like Dimitri. That's the irony, as he doesn't even realize it. Just because you think you've become like someone doesn't mean you have. 

You know, it's actually amazing how Felix is the only character from Faerghus to realize how messed up Faerghus's culture is about how it treats knights. Where Rodrigue and Ingrid basically doubled down on the culture and believe that knighthood is great, they overall try and glorify Glenn's death. 

In a way, it's another clash of reality here.

Where Rodrigue and Ingrid refuse to believe that Glenn died a horrible way, but instead died a noble death as a knight, they can try and keep the memory of Glenn in a positive way. Felix, on the other hand, just sees it as a disgusting that they would treat Glenn's death in such a manner and delude themselves into thinking otherwise. 

It's a different way of handling grief; Rodrigue and Ingrid romanticize Glenn and think the absolute world of him. It's a way of keeping themselves from falling into despair, because if they allow themselves to think his death was for nothing, that he didn't die in the line of duty honorably, that realisation would hurt far more than anything else.(As toxic as it is, I think Faerghus is incredibly interesting as a result.) Felix thinks it's absolutely garbage. However it's an interesting thing to note that Felix handles his grief by taking parts of those he lost upon himself; Dimitri in an AM conversation points out that Felix has "Become just like Glenn" in terms of personality, vs when he was younger and relatively a lot meeker. Notice how he ends up taking up parts of Dimitri in VW and SS and even in CF thinks he also becomes the same as him? Yeah.

Personally I'd say he still becomes like Dimitri in CF, he just actually realises it rather than it happening slowly and without him noticing. It's a difference of interpretation there I suppose.

3 hours ago, B.Leu said:

You know, I'm really happy to see that other people think that Dimitri, BL and Fearghus feel... wrong sometimes. A lot of times.

Another It also kinda sorta weird me out that CF Felix is supposed to be bad and feel bad when everything he thought about his country is proven correct. Obviously he should feel bad -it's his old friends and his dad after all- but beyond that ? I don't think he is a boar at all.

First, amen to that, secondly, you forgot the part where AM Dimitri is welcomed back with utter adoration from his country to the point of rebelling apparently, despite Dimitri having done less than christian things, despite not caring about them. (I'm not confounding with VW or SS do I ? It's hard keep track at times)
And okay, in AM it's hearthwarming because Dimitri started to get a grip, but think a little, and that's less fuzzy.

 

First time ? 😛
Ahaha... yeah same for me.

The thing with his people rebelling is that they're rebelling against Cornelia who was taxing them dry, starving them and executing them. They just see that they actually have a chance now and side with their -previously thought to have been executed- king.

Edited by Axel987

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18 minutes ago, Axel987 said:

It's a different way of handling grief; Rodrigue and Ingrid romanticize Glenn and think the absolute world of him. It's a way of keeping themselves from falling into despair, because if they allow themselves to think his death was for nothing, that he didn't die in the line of duty honorably, that realisation would hurt far more than anything else.(As toxic as it is, I think Faerghus is incredibly interesting as a result.) Felix thinks it's absolutely garbage. However it's an interesting thing to note that Felix handles his grief by taking parts of those he lost upon himself; Dimitri in an AM conversation points out that Felix has "Become just like Glenn" in terms of personality, vs when he was younger and relatively a lot meeker. Notice how he ends up taking up parts of Dimitri in VW and SS and even in CF thinks he also becomes the same as him? Yeah.

Personally I'd say he still becomes like Dimitri in CF, he just actually realises it rather than it happening slowly and without him noticing. It's a difference of interpretation there I suppose.

Oh, I'm sure. There are plenty would try to honor the deaths of loved ones as a means of coping with the sorrow. But at the same time, I feel they might not have done it in the most healthiest ways. I feel that it's possible that Rodrigue especially didn't even mourn for his son, but simply glorified it. Ingrid, I would feel DID mourn, and does express some manner of emotion in how she's very much racist against the people of Duscur. However, for Rodrigue, I feel he denied the ability to feel grief and sorrow for his son's death, but put the duty as a knight above.

This makes me think about Frederick in Awakening. In the Future Past DLC, if he fathered Gerome, he talks to him, and though he praises him as a knight, he reprimands him as a father, showing that he's able to separate his feelings as a knight and as a father. So if Rodrigue was unable to do that, Felix grew up seeing a father not even mourn for his son, but a knight that praised Felix's brother's death in a glorified manner. 

In AM, I feel that Felix having his friends and Dimitri with him made Felix feel a form of comfort, or some cushion of support that prevented him from falling. In some way, by remaining loyal, he can kill friends and countrymen in AM, but not have to deal with the guilt of it because he is still in Faerghus. But when he's out of AM, he doesn't have that form of security anymore. It's why at the end of AM, Felix became just like his father.

As for CF Felix, I still don't think he became like Dimitri. There's no tribute to pay for the dead, no obsession that drives him in this war. 

You know, in SOME way, he adopted a bit of Edelgard into him. In that he wants to believe that all this death is leading to something brighter, a type of belief Edelgard has, in that she wants to believe that no one's deaths are to be in vain for a cause that is believed in. It's how Edelgard reacts with Arianrhod's destruction, where she tries to believe that the Agarthans exposing their hand allowed them to figure them out better, allowing her to believe that the deaths are not in vain. This overall stems from how her siblings and other innocents died for the experiments. They died for something they didn't know what for.

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3 hours ago, Axel987 said:

The Flame Emperor disowns the actions of TWSITD earlier into the plot and says they would have acted against them if they knew, however continues to be allied with them, moving forward from the murder of Jeralt and the use of Crest Beasts in the Holy Tomb.

Something I feel the game rather glosses over in the CF route is why Byleth would choose to ally themselves with someone who was working together with Jeralt's murderers. Please forgive me if this question has already been discussed to death. I'm new to the site and this discourse. 

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4 minutes ago, Licoriceallsorts said:

Something I feel the game rather glosses over in the CF route is why Byleth would choose to ally themselves with someone who was working together with Jeralt's murderers. Please forgive me if this question has already been discussed to death. I'm new to the site and this discourse. 

In CF Hubert directly states that they are only allied with TWSITD out of necessity and Edelgard doesn't -want- to work with them but feels she needs to, for their resources and power. It's one of CF's weaker points in that the actual catharsis of finally sticking it to them is left entirely to the credits, when more than anything CF is the route where you would most want to do so. Edelgard even points out that Dimitri in the end was just another puppet for Thales to use against her, Thales even appears before you take the fight to Rhea at Fhirdiad.

Personally this is what soured me on CF a bit, despite actually coming to slowly like it a lot in spite of my initial view, as things progressed. CF is straight up missing 2 incredibly important chapters that end up making what could be an excellent route feel like it blue-balled you.

 

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