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Hell and Back: The Maddening Mode Club


Are you in the club?  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you in the club?

    • Yes, I have finished Maddening Mode
    • I have not finished, but I have started and hope to finish some time this century
    • I have not tried it, but I may in the future.
    • Nah, Maddening isn't for me


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It's been a while since Maddening Mode came out, and I'm curious who of Serenes Forest has made the journey and lived to tell the tale? Let me hear who has the coveted gold main menu. I just finished my run and I have to say that pushing this game to its breaking points was a great experience. When it comes to Fire Emblem, I never cared much for those hardest of difficulties, since expert play could always fail to a bad attack roll, an unreasonable ambush spawn, or being on the receiving end of a 1 percent crit. But in Three Houses, the Divine Pulse mechanic keeps things moving forward. And the high difficulty of Maddening makes all the monastery busywork and unit customization come alive and feel useful in a way it never did in previous playthroughs for me. Who would have thought Silver Snow Maddening Mode would leave me with the highest impression of the game as my fourth and final route?

Anyway, here's my crew and some notes about the run for those curious. Content warning: Gauntlets

Spoiler
  1. Mad Lad (M!Byleth) - lv 41 War Master: Had I known at the start that I would be recruiting all students, I would have gone with the female Byleth. I figured the only way to "take advantage" of this other gender was to make him a war master, which was my favorite class anyway. Byleth actually fell off a bit in late game. Less bulk than the other war masters, and offense too. His charm was 60 though, so he was always ahead of the curve in that regard. HP: 55, Str: 40, Mag: 18, Dex: 31, Spd: 27, Lck: 26, Def: 27, Res: 15, Cha: 59. Skills: Quick Riposte, Authority, Death Blow, Fistfaire, Brawling Prowess
  2. Caspar - lv 40 War Master: Wasn't looking forward to Caspar with such low base stats, but he kept getting good level ups and showing me how overpowered brawlers can be. I expected to bench him, but he's probably the overall MVP of the run.I even ditched Brawling proficiency by the end since his personal kept his accuracy decent as he got four swings on an opponent that died in two hits. HP: 61, Str: 43, Mag: 13, Dex: 27, Spd: 31, Lck: 26, Def: 20, Res: 13, Cha:16. Skills: Fistfaire, Brawl Crit +10, Quick Riposte, Death Blow, Strength +2
  3. Alois - lv37 War Master - My roster is very player phase focused and Alois was my attempt at trying out the double Wrath crit stacking build for some variety. It works great, but when you join my team with brawling proficiency, you're going to be a war master which is a class never content with being good 50% of the time. The crit stacking build was used in chapter 11, 12, and was absent from then on until the final chapter. About the only thing remarkable about Alois in this role was his very high physical bulk and the combination of one-two punch and Quick Riposte leading to him never being doubled despite his low speed stat. And in order to ensure good accuracy I had to keep him on training gauntlets. HP: 62, Str: 43, Mag: 10, Dex: 18, Spd: 21, Lck: 15, Def: 26, Res: 11, Cha: 26. Skills: Quick Riposte, Brawling Prowess, Wrath, Vantage, Battalion Wrath
  4. Felix - lv 41 War Master - Surprising nobody, Felix was great. Aegis shield really enhanced his bulk, and I managed to get his authority rank all the way to B by the end there. Whoo! HP: 58, Str: 45, Mag: 20, Dex: 21, Spd: 38, Lck: 25, Def: 21. Res: 12, Cha: 28. Skills: HP +5, Death Blow, Brawling Prowess, Strength +2, Quick Riposte
  5. Petra - lv 40 Wyvern Lord: In the Black Eagles crew, Petra and Edelgard are the only units that start out good and continue being that way forever. Even her gimmicky seeming personal skill got some use in early maps due to every enemy requiring three or four attacks before they finally went down. HP: 53, Str: 37, Mag: 11, Dex: 30, Spd: 40, Lck: 26, Def: 23, Res: 12, Cha 23. Skills: Alert Stance +, Axe crit +10, Darting Blow, Axe Prowess, Death Blow
  6. Ingrid - lv 38 Falcon Knight - A second flier felt necessary for early maps, since one alone can't kill anything and pre-time skip leans more heavily on time limit-driven objectives than post-time skip. I had no issues using her so I kept her around. HP: 50, Str: 28, Mag: 22, Dex: 29, Spd: 36, Lck: 23, Def: 28, Res: 26, Cha: 31. Skills:  Lance Prowess, Death Blow, Alert Stance +, Lance Crit +10, Darting Blow
  7. Seteth - lv 39 Wyvern Lord - While he was nearly dead weight in chapter 13, Seteth just needed a bit of work to be up to date. Swift Strikes not only put out decent damage, but his crest procs 50% of the time, allowing him to blast people for free with that. Even when he did suffer counterattacks, he had some of the highest bulk due to his great base stats. HP: 63, Str: 38, Mag: 19, Dex: 29, Spd: 31, Lck: 14, Def: 29, Res: 15, Cha: 34. Skills: Death Blow, Axe Prowess, Lance Prowess, Authority, Alert Stance+
  8. Lorenz - lv 40 Dark Knight - I was frustrated to find Lorenz leaves your party and doesn't come back until chapter 17 like in Azure Moon. Lorenz is my combat mage of choice due to having the bulk to hang out on the frontlines. Even with his recruitment stats favoring strength over magic, he remained relevant up to the end with his long ranged assisting and occasional recover. HP: 52, Str: 24, Mag: 27, Dex: 25, Spd: 23, Lck: 20, Def: 20, Res: 27, Cha: 25. Skills: HP +5, Reason Prowess, Black Magic Range +1, Magic +2, Fiendish Blow
  9. Ferdinand - lv 37 Great Knight: When I promoted Ferdinand to Paladin at level 21, my head was in my hands. He had 12 speed - up to 14 with that promotion, meaning he gained just 4 speed increases across 20 level ups despite having a 50-55% speed growth that entire time. So I treated his speed like a dump stat and went the route of Great Knight as he spammed Swift Strikes exclusively for damage. He never really caught up in damage, but his bulk became decent, almost on the same level as Seteth. I like the guy, but not benching him was my greatest error in the run. HP: 59, Str: 27, Mag: 11, Dex: 21, Spd: 16, Lck: 18, Def: 32, Res: 10, Cha 23. Skills: HP +5, Lance Prowess, Aegis, Weight -5, Death Blow
  10. Dorothea - lv 43 Dancer: Hexblade nuking, physic, sword dodge tanking, and meteor linked attack boosts. Dorothea has the worst early game of any unit in Three Houses, but her swiss army knife of applications beyond just dancing makes me almost forget about that. HP: 44, Str: 22, Mag: 33, Dex: 28, Spd: 33, Lck: 25, Def: 20, Res: 21, Cha: 41. Skills: Sword Prowess, Special Dance, Authority, Sword avoid +20, Fiendish Blow.
  11. Lindhardt - lv 39 Bishop: Linhardt had his full kit by the time he became a bishop. It's so nice to have physic and warp on the same unit. I can't imagine Maddening without him now. He had pretty much no combat applications, but that's what all my other units were there for. HP: 40, Str: 19, Mag: 32, Dex: 24, Spd: 19, Lck: 31, Def: 16, Res: 31, Cha: 13. Skills: Reason prowess, Magic +2, HP +5, Renewal, Fiendish Blow
  12. Ignatz - lv 43 Sniper: I wasn't sure if Ignatz was the right replacement for Bernadetta, but his recruitment was pretty much free like Shamir's, and I knew Raphael could be his guard adjutant for more damage. When he got hunter's volley, he became ridiculous. He seldom missed the one round KO on enemies, even with the puny Mini Bow. And his Dex brought his crit rate so high that he did indeed reach up to 100 Crit on generic monsters if I ever wanted it. I was already a big fan of Ignatz, but I'm glad I took a chance on him. HP: 52, Str: 27, Mag: 15, Dex: 42, Spd: 29, Lck: 37, Def: 21, Res: 25, Cha: 21. Skills: Bow Prowess, Close Counter, Bow Crit +10, Bowfaire, Death Blow.

Silver Snow, No NG+, No DLC. I did not turn off online or amiibo bonuses, but I also didn't make full use of them. I have no fire emblem amiibo, and didn't interact with online travelers or pick up the flying blessing gambit. As for grinding, I definitely got a little out of hand on the Ocean View paralogue. I wanted Byleth to have C rank in all melee weapons for some recruitments. In post-time skip, I think I did just one auxilliary battle that wasn't a battle quest. I also decided to not use stat boosters in this run. Since I never felt it necessary. Putting them all together, the boosters in my convoy add up to: 12 HP, 11 Str, 10Mag, 8 Dex, 11 Spd, 14 Luck, 24 Def, 12 Res, 4 Cha, and 1 Mov. 

I also want to shout out to the Mangs/Chaz LP, as it made me realize that Maddening Mode can actually be pretty fun past the first few chapters.

Edit: I have posted stats for the team. Stats correlate to the start of the final month (so that no dining hall bonuses affect the characters). They do include the stat bonuses of the class I have them listed as, but don't include stats provided by abilities (like strength +2)

Edited by Glennstavos
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I finished azure moon ng on maddening recently and it was easily the most fun I've had with the game period.   So much so that I don't think I'm ever touching ng+ or normal/hard ever again.   You really need to take your time and make the war use of everything that's available to you.   The highlights for me were reunion at dawn and gronder.   I've never liked turtling so maps that discouraged it were exceptionally rewarding.    Ambush spawns still eat pegasus dung though.

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Did it with my Deers, of course. I tried to do it alongside my Crimson Flower run but ended up getting invested more in Maddening even though I had already completed the route lol.

Didn't play optimally at all (I am bad at the Fire Emblemz) and stumbled through a few parts, but damn is it rewarding when you finally get through it. It's also a valuable learning experience: didn't actually pay much attention to battalions until my Maddening run, for example.

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Beat Maddening on all 4 routes.

It was kinda fun for the first two playthroughs (CF and AM), but the other two really burnt me out and kinda made me low key hate the game, or at least the Monestary Section of it.

At least it gave me an example of how completely ludicrous a unit can get even in the hardest difficulty, so that's kinda cool I guess. 

Edited by LoneRecon400
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https://streamable.com/phib1

I beat it on church, which I can guarantee is the hardest of all the routes to beat on maddening. The solution? Have Ferdinand be a sword master to abuse his high speed growth, make him my dancer for sword avoid +20 and a charm boost, and watch him dodge tank the whole game, Rhea couldn't land a hit on him. Gambits were low hit as well thanks to high charm. I used Edelgard as my tank while I had her, benched Hubert and Caspar, and had everyone else do their usual stuff. Petra doubling reliably and having high offenses gave Ferdie a run for his money though. 

EDIT: On a side note, I didn't even know about the cheaper mechanics, like Guard Adjutants, Stride and Retribution. I just dry dogged it. Not the most fun idea, I really recommend you looking into more tips like that. Ferdinand could snowball into soloing maps but the climb was still real steep. 

Edited by Duke of Dozel
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I've done every route apart from SS on maddening, but i'm up to CH 2 on SS and plan on using the Ashen wolves. not looking forward to the final map since a lot of people say it's hell.

Monastery is really cool early on but gets tedious late into the timeskip.

My favourite of the three was easily AM, Dedue was such a fun unit to use and i probably haven't had as much fun using a unit since Nolan in RD. CF comes in second for no reason other than Jeritza made it feel unique. It was cool to use units like Hanneman and Manuela for the first time too so using those 3 new units made it more interesting. Least Favourite was my first one, GD. This was when i thought i needed to completely optomise the game like in Conquest Lunatic and had 7 fliers. I also didn't know about the almighty guard adjutants then as well as some other mechanics. Final map was fun though.

I don't have the other two SF anymore but here are the stats for the AM guys:

https://imgur.com/a/Gt5Mxic

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Now that I have completed every route, I'm thinking about playing through CF on Maddening. My only problem is, if its got some annoying RNG like Awakening that can be impossible to work around, I may pass. It was already a migraine on Awakening. I will NOT stress myself out like that again. Plus ridiculous RNG like that is not really skill and I like to be able to overcome the game at its peak through some skill.

I probably also pass on doing a CF run on Maddening with the CS students being new to me. I want to enjoy their storylines first. 

If anybody knows if Maddening on CF has stupid RNG, let me know. I'd rather play Dark Souls with a broken sword.

And I don't mean taking the easy route and playing casual. I'll only do that if its a migraine to do otherwise. Once I get my storyline pleasures, its classic all the way. Only real way to present a challenge I am heavily invested in.

Edited by WarriorAaron123
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Completed GD. Went for church afterwards, but that was my sixth playthrough and I kinda just lost interest right before the timeskip(or rather I started playing something else, then focused on that instead). Picked it back up recently and beat chapter 13, then stopped again... probably won't pick it back up again for a good while, likely with a new playthrough.

I like maddening, but I agree with @LoneRecon400 that the monastery micromanagement gets very draining... and I don't even farm stat boosters. I actually think this is something that will make the game age way more poorly than it should if they don't correct it.
Then again, we'll welcome the next entry with open arms as a result, so in a sense...

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Finished it twice on my first playthroughs of Crimson Flower and Azure Moon. Plan to playthrough it again on Silver Snow to play around with the new DLC classes. Although I love to absolutely abuse New Game+ features, so I'm not sure how authentic one can consider my experiences.

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I beat it once on SS, I plan to do AM at some point, but I really need to put this game down for a while because I'm burnt out. Those early chapters and the final map were annoying, but everything was a fun challenge.

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I want to try AM with no new game + and with all the DLC, problem is that I’m not sure when I have a bunch of games I want to finish up. I also neglected some school work for Cindered Shadows, so I definitely want to take a break.

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10 hours ago, Duke of Dozel said:

I beat it on church, which I can guarantee is the hardest of all the routes to beat on maddening. 

I really think it is the hardest route. The Black Eagles crew has the hardest early game, and Edelgard takes up a deployment slot pre-time skip. You've got no awesome Lord character for the long term, or any of their relics. The hardest version of Chapter 13 since Seteth accomplishes little beyond Rally Defense and two charges of Assembly - leaving Byleth to solo the map for the hardest turns. You don't have to play the Gronder map, but that entire month is wiped from the game and all its opportunities with it. And you have one less deployment slot in every story chapter except the final one.

And that final map! You're surrounded at the start with half the enemies aggroing to your position of their own accord. More than half the enemies have Miracle with 28-42% proc rate, including those White Beasts. The White Beasts have to be taken out sort of similar to the 10 Elites in Claude's endgame, but they don't wait around with 0 movement for you to snipe them, they'll just fly at you. There's a few nasty surprises on the other church leaders, like a +3 range brave bow Sniper, and three physic users who reach most of the map. The reinforcements begin very early and are very threatening, and I don't think you can push to stop them until the first shows up. And while Rhea does lose adaptive damage and Wrath, she makes up for it with 8 range, armor that restores every turn until you do a full break, vantage, and miracle. She's also enclosed in walls, so your non fliers have a hard time getting around to hit specific points of her. If this isn't the hardest map in Three Houses, I don't know what is.

Edited by Glennstavos
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Can I answer "yes" or "in progress" if I'm doing Maddening with NG+ (technically NG++)? I've enjoyed the challenge level with some of the renown bonuses on my side, but I'm kind of leery about trying it on NG raw. If I do, though, I think I'll go with Golden Deer (whom I played first, on Normal).

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I've done Maddening NG for every route except SS.

It's a solid mode. Ambush spawns are bad game design but divine pulse makes them much more palatable, since you can just rewind a turn and plan around them, as opposed to redoing an entire map. Otherwise the challenge is in a pretty good place overall. I don't like how it lulls a little midgame (pre-timeskip, C8-11 are a relatively easy set of maps) but generally it's otherwise pretty solid, and the lull is a problem in Hard as well, so it's inherent to the maps rather than the mode. The final battle of Azure Moon on Maddening is probably my pick for the most satisfying thing to beat in the game.

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finished both AM and CF maddening no online, no NG+, no DLCs (also no out of house recruits in CF), almost finished VW in NG+ but I burned out and stopped playing with like 3-4 chapters left (NG+ made it way to easy/boring)

2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I've done Maddening NG for every route except SS.

It's a solid mode. Ambush spawns are bad game design but divine pulse makes them much more palatable, since you can just rewind a turn and plan around them, as opposed to redoing an entire map. Otherwise the challenge is in a pretty good place overall. I don't like how it lulls a little midgame (pre-timeskip, C8-11 are a relatively easy set of maps) but generally it's otherwise pretty solid, and the lull is a problem in Hard as well, so it's inherent to the maps rather than the mode. The final battle of Azure Moon on Maddening is probably my pick for the most satisfying thing to beat in the game.

last AM chapter I decided to actually cheese the game with Dimitri (since I avoided using him with battallion vantage+wrath for the rest of the game because it would have been kinda ehhh too easy), not because the chapter was hard but because I wanted to try him at least once ( trickiest part are the siege reinforcements but if you have a dedicated dodge tank and retribution you can still trivialize them, in my case that role was fulfilled by Ingrid and Dimitri)

4 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

[...]

that sounds kinda fun tbh, might try it in the future with an all church team or something

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How do you guys feel about the difficulty? Is it challenging enough to warrant the absurd customization options that the game gives you? What about the DLC? Do the additional characters and classes make it too easy? I've never played maddening.

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@Vitezen

I like its difficulty. It's tough enough that you feel like your good builds/choices are rewarded, whereas in Hard I could probably do just about anything and get away with it. But it's not overwhelming; I only had a single-digit number of game overs even on AM (which I found the toughest overall), because Divine Pulse is so forgiving. I can envision a harder difficulty, but I don't know that it's something I would enjoy given the game's mechanics.

Haven't yet played with the new DLC (the earlier DLC has only a very minor impact on the game's challenge, like yeah the sauna and Anna's free bullion are helps but not game-changing).

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On 2/15/2020 at 9:16 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Can I answer "yes" or "in progress" if I'm doing Maddening with NG+ (technically NG++)? I've enjoyed the challenge level with some of the renown bonuses on my side, but I'm kind of leery about trying it on NG raw. If I do, though, I think I'll go with Golden Deer (whom I played first, on Normal).

Eh, after understanding the difficulties within the mode, I say you're fine as a Yes, but it's ultimately up to you whether you think NG+ is a proper clear. If I had to list the top 5 ways to cheese maddening mode they'd be

  • Slapping Quick Riposte on male units at level 1 via NG+. Not getting doubled and also earning your own double with no speed check so long as your health is high basically feels like a slower normal mode.
  • Rusted/broken weapon grinding. In potentially any auxilliary battle you can look for a priest/bishop (both classes have renewal on maddening), have them run out of nosferatu charges on a forest or heal tile and have your units spam rusted weapons at them for free skill ranks and authority until turn 99.
  • Fishing. Not so much for the prof. exp, but for all the money you can get selling fish. There's Anna's stat boosters, buying specific seeds rather than using what the game hands you, and best of all is buying black sand steel to finance all the killer weapon forges and repairs in the world. After the chapter 9 fishing day I stopped spamming arena for money since it was never a concern again.
  • Online travelers and that scouting mission and adjutant stuff. I'm not an expert on these things, but I know there's a way you can grab class masteries on units with little effort if the right partner shows up in your game. Buying rare items might be pretty ridiculous too, I dunno if they allow stat boosters or what. And the scouting missions lead to a flying E rank battalion with blessing and endgame competitive stats just...what?
  • Save scumming stat boosters. I think you can just throw in one of a seed you want, no money spent on cultivation, and reset until it produces the stat booster the next week, since the maximum amount of stat boosters you get is always 1 anyway and spending the money on better cultivation/more seeds is just improving the odds of that.

Most players are different in their play styles and what they consider busted. Personally I took full advantage of fishing, and also did broken weapon grinding to make recruitments easier. I'm sure somebody could make the case that recruiting all students is too powerful, since their paralogues give you a lot of good stuff and experience to catch up against inflated enemy stats.

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Yep, once on Crimson Flower and then Azure Moon 0% growths with CF and Church 0%s in progress.

This aint New Mystery tier difficulty thats for sure.

It is also a pathway to many memes some would consider to be... unnatural.

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I have done every route on NG maddening. I did AM, SS and CF two times on NG maddening, to do them with some alternative builds. I consider to do another run in future, but for now I am finished with three houses.

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Got into the game late, but did AM NG maddening blind playthrough 1, followed by NG BE maddening. The last chapter on AM was a patience tester (also only the 2nd chapter where I game over'd, Divine Pulse makes what would be one of the harder max difficulty FE games mid tier, imho, but it is also obviously balanced around DP) I caved and used a few stat boosters (something I never use for whatever masochistic reason on first max difficulty runs) to get Dimitri speed enough to double specific enemies/put his strength over 50 (got unlucky with my Dimitri I think, he was only at 41 str at level 46), and also put Gradivus on him (I didn't use retribution at all, something that I realized was incredibly busted in subsequent runs, and even the new dlc in chapter 6). Overall, reading other popular opinions, I was mostly surprised by how meh Sylvain was for me, where he seems to get a ton of love on AM route. Seteth and Ferdinand are better SS users imo, but the Lance of Ruin is nice. I felt like I babysat him all the way to like chapter 20/21 until he got lancefaire and I threw cichol wyverns on him to patch up his hit issues.

I was pretty anxious about chapter 13, reading how many people bricked their runs on it... and then I one shot it (well, used 2 DP's, so not really). A strong Dimitri and Blyleth (male assassin in my case) gambit their way out of the choke point pretty easily. King of Lion corps is kinda made for the chokepoint you start in, too. The narrative that you need an entire original house team that's strong/put Ashe into a flying class, make sure your Ingrid is a prepared dodge tank, etc. was so far off my experience. I'd say make sure your Dimtri has an evasion ring and got a good amount of attention training wise+ Blyleth wasn't neglected, and Mercedes as a Bishop with healing staff for strong psychics, and you're gonna be fine... and that all kinda comes naturally without even trying. It was kind of annoying experiencing it, mostly because I realized I could have just benched Ashe early and let him sit in his corner.

BE was probably tougher overall, but not the final level. Also knowing the game mechanics from the AM run helped a ton, and I knew exactly what Petra I wanted to make after my recruited one carried hard in AM the last few chapters (alert stance+ wyvern specializing in axes with a killer axe/tomahawk).

 

I've yet to complete church route or GD, though I'm currently on church with the new dlc characters + lysithea/felix, and house members ferd/petra/dorothea/lindhart/bernie. Considering going back to an old save to pick up late recruit Raphael because I like beefy War Masters that much, but Felix is already going AS WM after being. Sniper my AM run, and of course Balthus as well. Probably gonna save him for the GD run.

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11 hours ago, Rengor1997 said:

It is also a pathway to many memes some would consider to be... unnatural.

omg I love yer movies!

1 hour ago, Relytive said:

I was pretty anxious about chapter 13, reading how many people bricked their runs on it... and then I one shot it (well, used 2 DP's, so not really). A strong Dimitri and Blyleth (male assassin in my case) gambit their way out of the choke point pretty easily. King of Lion corps is kinda made for the chokepoint you start in, too. The narrative that you need an entire original house team that's strong/put Ashe into a flying class, make sure your Ingrid is a prepared dodge tank, etc. was so far off my experience. I'd say make sure your Dimtri has an evasion ring and got a good amount of attention training wise+ Blyleth wasn't neglected, and Mercedes as a Bishop with healing staff for strong psychics, and you're gonna be fine... and that all kinda comes naturally without even trying. It was kind of annoying experiencing it, mostly because I realized I could have just benched Ashe early and let him sit in his corner.

yeah, Chapter 13 wasn't the wall I was expecting either. But it'll definitely punish players not preparing for it. If they just had a damned prep screen for me to adjust the first two unit's battalions, class, or abilities, it'd be much less to worry about when you're on the chapter 12 prep screen. But overprepared as I was, Byleth pretty much solo'd the map. Not that church route gives you much options otherwise.

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On 2/17/2020 at 12:57 PM, Glennstavos said:

yeah, Chapter 13 wasn't the wall I was expecting either. But it'll definitely punish players not preparing for it. If they just had a damned prep screen for me to adjust the first two unit's battalions, class, or abilities, it'd be much less to worry about when you're on the chapter 12 prep screen. But overprepared as I was, Byleth pretty much solo'd the map. Not that church route gives you much options otherwise.

Speaking of battalions and the time skip, is battalion endurance set to maximum? I know weapons are repaired, but...

Edited by Shadow Mir
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