How is the weapon balance in 3Hs?

[Eden Agleam]

I was thinking about how the different weapons feel in Three Houses, and I can't really come to a conclusion of where I lay. I thought the game did a generally good job, and that forging really allowed for the weapons to be different and viable. However, I'm just one person, so I wanted to see what other (likely better) players though. So what do you all think. Factor in both Hard and Maddening mode. 

[Slumber]

Three Houses definitely has one of the better attempts at weapon balance, in my opinion. A lot of weapons are generally worth using.

Even when some units are at the point where using Steel or Silver is the best option, an Iron weapon is worth keeping around for weapon arts that can bridge the gap without wasting the durability of your better/more expensive weapons. And when it comes to the Fist weapons, lighter weapons like Training and Iron are usually better due to the type of units who specialize in Gauntlets.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Slumber

[Cysx]

Training, Iron, Steel, Silver:

There's some redundancy between Iron and Training as they tend to serve the same purpose, but otherwise giving steel higher durability in a game with weapon weight and combat artswas a good call. I'd say they did a pretty good job here, none of these feel like a waste of space.

Mace, Horseslayer, etc:

Hurt by the existence of specialized weapon arts, clearly, but there's also the fact that the Spear of Assal and Axe of Ukonvasomething exist, both of which can be repaired and are laughably strong (57 might vs armors, sure why not). I do like Maces being actually practical to use in regular combat, but overall, meh.
... however, if this encompasses Blessed weapons, well insta breaking monster armor remains useful throughout the game, and the healing is nice too. Those are fine.

Magic Weapons:

They're definitely worth using, especially once forged. The ability to turn physical combat arts into magic through these, and the fact that they ignore terrain avoid bonuses are pretty nice too. But as always, weapon users generally have poor magic. At least it gives magic users something to do in classes where they don't get access to their spells. I'd say these are right where they should be, to be honest.

Relics:

Apart from the fact that swords got the short end on those, they're cool. Especially appreciate the timeskip auto-repair, makes them in particular much more fun to use.

Magic:

Not balanced, but then again, spell lists are personal leading to characters with middling stats getting better spells(Dorothea), so on paper it's fine. But yeah some spells are clearly better than others and there's quite a bit of repetition, kinda wish they brought back the Tellius effectiveness(wind/ice beats fliers, thunder beats dragons, fire beats horses) to help with that.

That was for Reason though, Faith is much more problematic. Offensive spells being x2 against monsters globally with Seraphim alone at x3 would probably have been a pretty good idea, since as they are right now, they all tend to be pretty useless. Support wise, it's even worse, with Warp predictably being incredibly valuable in a context where its uses are recharged every new map, and there being no competition in terms of healing between those who have Physic/Fortify, and those who don't.
This would be the one aspect of "weapons" where I'd say they really messed up, too many Faith spells suck while a few are amazing, leading to very lopsided spell lists as said above.
 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Cysx

[Reality]

Basic Weapons - Training weapons helps a lot in Maddening earlygame to prevent being doubled - Normal mode no reason to go below Iron. - Steel has a noticeable break point of risk/reward that makes it come in over iron (sometimes with a babysitter to trade him after his action for steel PP >Training EP.)

Effective Special Weapons - Against generic armors/horses, not really, but good for boss ones IN COMBINATION with arts. Meaty people like Dimitri can whack non effective generics with them and pretend like they are steel and then get the effective bonus on the actual horse/etc in the same group.

Special Weapons - Javelin/Hand Axe = No - Killer/Brave = Yes

Magic Weapons - They work okay if you got the ranks up on a magic charather, but not to the point that it's more than a nice bonus.

Reason Faith    - Clearly imbalanced, but the enemy design makes it tolerable since ANY earlygame mage including absurd ones like felix is good due to kinda bad enemy-res till chapter 11ish. 

[Wishblade]

Magic weapons:

Levin Sword: The most accessible of all. Low requirement (sword C). Generally useful. Work very well when you want to cut fortress knights with a sword user. Forging it into a 3-range weapon makes it even better.

Bolt Axe: Rare but still accessible. Requires axe B so you would need some preparation in order to equip it. Edelgard and Annetta would love it since it’s their only 3-range choice.

Arrow of Indra: Forget about it. It’s cool but it’s pretty much locked to Crimson Flower.

Aura Knuckles: Completely niche. I dare say some of you didn’t even know such a thing existed. Nobody other than Constance can use it. They either can’t meet the requirement (brawl A) or will hit harder with iron gauntlets.

 

Edit: Forgot Magic Bow

Magic Bow: Worthless. Pathetic damage and there aren’t any competent users.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Wishblade

[Ertrick36]

I think they did a decent job balancing the weapons the way they intend for them to work, and it's in large part due to the durability system.

• Standard Weapons - The fodder weapons.  In most RPGs, these weapons would have a progression system that worked like this: start off using the low-grade stuff, find mid-or-high-grade stuff part way through, continue using the low-grade stuff throughout because it's plentiful, use mid-or-high-grade stuff only when facing tough opposition, then mid-to-late game you switch to using the mid-grade weapons as your fodder weaponry and maybe even the high-grade stuff as fodder for the last stretch.  To this end, Three Houses does just fine.
• Specialty Weapons - Niche weapons.  Maybe not actually used in the ways they're meant, but interesting regardless.  I feel like most people don't just use them willy-nilly, but are probably inclined to burn through their uses by demolishing strong enemies weak to them with combat arts.  I think ultimately they didn't quite work out so well because most enemies that are weak to specialty weapons either come late game or are also weak to magic.  I'll get to that later, but my point is that people probably won't be regularly bringing in maces and horseslayers simply because they're low on uses and have niche usage - they may use them infrequently enough that they'll even forget to bring a bunch of horseslayers to a map filled with horsemen.
• Magic Weapons - The hybrid choice.  Only really good for a select few characters - Edelgard, Felix, Ingrid, Manuela, and Lorenz.  If you try to make Annette efficient with axes, you either better train her in heavy armor to get that -3/-5 weight skill or enjoy wasting a unit's potential, and Marianne's not gonna see much use out of a levin sword unless the player wants to turn her into a flier.  Sure, not many spells match the lethal levels of a bolt axe's 14 might, but considering its weight is 15 and that most mages won't be able to easily offset that, along with the fact that it only has 25 uses and thus would need frequent repairs, it just isn't really worth it for mages to use.  And it sure as hell sucks to use for a physical combatant.  Ever tried getting Raphael to kill an enemy with a bolt axe?  It'd probably break before he was able to kill the enemy, and at that point it'd probably be a more efficient weapon anyway.
• Relics - What I said about standard weapons applies here, except these weapons pop up all throughout the story to be used by specific characters.  Interesting that the relics only work to maximum effectiveness in the hands of certain characters, and also interesting that those that don't bear crests will get damaged when they try to use relics.  They're high-grade weapons you will always want to save for a rainy day.
• Magic - Ho, magic is... well, it's kinda busted.  Or at least, Lysithea is busted.  The problem isn't that it's replenished after every fight, the problem is that a lot of enemies have lower Res than Def.  That, and a lot of units that are weak to specialty weapons are also pretty weak to magic.  Why use a hammer at all when you can just have Lorenz incinerate an armor knight from the inside?  Why fight the Death Knight with a horseslayer when you can just dark spike him with Lysithea, who's enough of a nuke that she'd probably just one-shot him?  In the right hands, magic is to Three Houses what scouts were to Valkyria Chronicles 1.  White magic sucks for combat, but that's to be expected.  I mean, it's goddamn white magic, it's not meant for offense.  With that said, the white magic specialty class, the Holy Knight, is obviously inferior to other magic-wielding classes.

When it all comes down to it, the thing that makes this balance work is the durability system.  You aren't scared into never using certain weapons for fear of them permanently breaking.  You can always repair a weapon, given you have the money and materials to do so.  But you aren't permitted to use weapons with total reckless abandon, partly because of the cost to repair but mainly because they may break when you really need them.  You aren't actively discouraged from using the Sword of the Creator - you can definitely make use of it without worrying about it becoming permanently unusable - but you also can't just use it all the time as your primary weapon because you'll blow through its 20 uses like it's nothing.  Really, it's kind of a brilliant system, and it really makes you wonder why they stopped using it after the Kaga days until this game came around.

It's not perfect, sure.  But I think it's better than it's been in the past.  I definitely prefer the weapon balance in this game to how it was done in either Awakening or Fates, the former which didn't do enough to discourage one's use of higher-tier weapons and the latter of which did too much to discourage the use of those same weapons while simultaneously doing nothing to balance the prf weapons, because everyone knows the lightning lobster king isn't broken at all with that thunder stick.

[Shadow Mir]

Standard weapons: 3H does fine in this regard since they’re generally worth using.

Specialty weapons: They have niche uses. Not much more to say.

Magic weapons: And here’s where the wheat and the chaff are glaringly obvious. The Levin Sword is great, but most of the others, not so much. Especially the Aura Knuckles, which require A in Brawling, while most of the units that have a strength in Brawling have terrible magic growths. The Bolt Axe is little better. Sure, not much spells can compete with its 14 might, but the 15 weight and 60 base hit are dealbreakers. Not helping matters is that the units that could make it work are both weak in bows.

Relics - Simply put, axes drew the short straw. The Crusher has a dismal 60 base hit, which is no bueno considering it’s supposed to be used by a mage. The 11 weight does it no favors. Aymr has the same hit, and even worse, requires Agarthium to repair. Neither is helped by their intended users being weak in bows. That being said, I find it interesting that they require certain units to get the most out of them, and that crestless units take damage when trying to use them.

Magic - Faith drew the short straw in terms of offensive options. Not much else to say.

6 hours ago, Cysx said:

Relics:

Apart from the fact that swords got the short end on those, they're cool. Especially appreciate the timeskip auto-repair, makes them in particular much more fun to use.

What makes you say that? Because about the few relics I found worthwhile are swords.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

If I had to break down my gripes with weapons in three houses:

• The Mini Bow is overpowered. It's the lightest bow in the game yet it surpasses the training bow in MT both forged and unforged. Then when you forge it, it has 10 crit, making it a mini killer bow with still excellent durability and low repair costs. It also gives your archers an enemy phase if their bow rank is between D and C and haven't unlocked close counter yet. Heck I've even considered it as a straight up replacement for Close Counter since I fire it more than any other bow and can trade equip to it on archers that need it to retaliate on enemy phase. The one drawback on the bow is its lack of flier effective damage, but it's never relevant since optimal use of archers and snipers on Maddening is combat arts 90% of the time which all add flier effectiveness to the mini bow.
• The Longbow gives me a headache. Its extra range is provided for free by all the good combat arts and it requires the same material as brave weapons and second tier ranged weapons to repair/forge. It's durability is also very low.
• Magic weapons are mostly a waste of inventory space beyond that magic lance in one route. I think the Levin Sword is the only one worth using and the game hands two or three at you for free while the others have to be forged. They're really inaccurate, and part of it has to do with being stuck with the magic hit formula, meaning the game combines your dex and luck stats and divides them by 2. Most physical units in the game have huge disparity between the two stats, so the weapons tend to be about 10 points of hit less accurate while already being the least accurate options in their weapon class. Magic combat arts just don't have this issue. The Magic Bow+ added range doesn't matter when all the relevant combat arts provide an extra point of range. The Bolt Axe is way more heavy than it needed to be with such low hit. Aura Knuckles provide no niche because they shouldn't realistically overtake the physical gauntlets in damage unless you're a mage. Mages are also incapable of equipping gauntlets just like the mounted classes so you can't even build your mages to try it out. It's the worst weapon in the game for sure.
• Gold Relics > silver Relics all day. Umbral Steel is 5-8 times more frequent than Mythril. Maybe there are more ways of obtaining mythril with DLC or the red auxilliary battles which I seldom went for, but in the base game I had over 50 umbral steels allowing me to spam relics and combat arts with those relics a lot.

 

But still weapon balance in Three Houses is wayyyy better than class and ability balance and any other issues I can think of can be chalked up to those two things just as much. I could also point at forged killer weapons as being overpowered due to money becoming a non issue during chapter 9 thanks to fishing and the game letting you buy black sand steel.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Glennstavos

[Cysx]

29 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

What makes you say that? Because about the few relics I found worthwhile are swords.

That's because you care about accuracy more than most people, you've made that pretty clear. With that being said, I didn't have the Thunderbrand in mind, and it's pretty great, so I retract that statement.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Iron and Training are good for doubling, being low-weight options. Steels are great for spamming combat arts, while Silver can do either, but at much higher cost.

Effective weapons are pretty good when they're effective, especially in combination with certain combat arts. Ex. Lightning Axe Hammer Annette is my favorite tool to one-shot Armors on Maddening. The Rapier is one of the best weapons in the game. But for others, their uses drain quickly.

Ranged weapons (Javelin, Hand Axe) are just okay. Having a Faire and Prowess are nice, but this is a game where Bows are really good. Not being able to, say, Tempest Lance at 2-range sucks too.

Brave weapons are good, but then again, they always are. I appreciate how Fates and 3 Houses elected to balance them, mak8ng the brave effect player-phase exclusive. In some cases, though, running Gauntlets is better.

Magic weapons are good, but scarce, especially with Arcane Crystal being a "luck of the draw" before getting Dark Merchant. Arrow of Indra and Bolt Axe are great on Paladins/Falcoknights and Wyvern Lords, respectively. 

Killer weapons are alright, being able to buy Black-Sand Steel from early on is a big help. High crit is balanced out be high weight and/or low durability.

Spells aren't really balanced. Anything with 3 or more range is better than spells locked to 1-2 range. Also IMO Wind is underrated, it has plentiful uses, high accuracy, and super-low weight. That spell lists are fixed constrains viability of who makes a good mage, moreso than (lack of) limited combat arts. But I'm okay with this.

Relics aren't balanced, but it's more a question of availability than anything else. That's worthy of its own discussion thread.

[Shadow Mir]

27 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Gold Relics > silver Relics all day. Umbral Steel is 5-8 times more frequent than Mythril. Maybe there are more ways of obtaining mythril with DLC or the red auxilliary battles which I seldom went for, but in the base game I had over 50 umbral steels allowing me to spam relics and combat arts with those relics a lot.

I dunno - honestly I felt that relics are too expensive to repair for how useful they are(n’t). Conventional weaponry tends to be more useful overall nine times out of ten.

10 minutes ago, Cysx said:

That's because you care about accuracy more than most people, you've made that pretty clear. With that being said, I didn't have the Thunderbrand in mind, and it's pretty great, so I retract that statement.

Well, whaddya expect? Being able to hit hard doesn’t mean a damn if, you know, you can’t hit in the first place.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Well, whaddya expect? Being able to hit hard doesn’t mean a damn if, you know, you can’t hit in the first place.

Are we gonna turn it into this kind of thread again? Hah...

Anyway, for how much anecdotal evidence is worth, I can regularly achieve >80 displayed hit (read, >90 true hit) against enemy Armors with Wyvern Annette using Crusher / Dust / Bolt Axe / Lightning Axe Hammer, on Maddening. +15 Hit coming from the Cichol Wyvern Co batallion, accessible on all routes from beating the Seteth/Flayn paralogue. Linked attack boosts helpful, but not necessary. Make of that what you will.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Are we gonna turn it into this kind of thread again? Hah...

Anyway, for how much anecdotal evidence is worth, I can regularly achieve >80 displayed hit (read, >90 true hit) against enemy Armors with Wyvern Annette using Crusher / Dust / Bolt Axe / Lightning Axe Hammer, on Maddening. +15 Hit coming from the Cichol Wyvern Co batallion, accessible on all routes from beating the Seteth/Flayn paralogue. Linked attack boosts helpful, but not necessary. Make of that what you will.

I dunno about you, but that doesn't impress me considering you're wasting one of the few good flying battalions on someone who doesn't even benefit that much from it. That being said, I admit there are ways to increase hit, but not all of them are practical.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno about you, but that doesn't impress me considering you're wasting one of the few good flying battalions on someone who doesn't even benefit that much from it. That being said, I admit there are ways to increase hit, but not all of them are practical.

Unfortunately, no flying battalions (that I am aware of) give a boost to magical attack, so the best Annette can do is break even*. Having said that, her Strength and Charm are good enough that she can make decent use of Assault Troop. She'll also get similar, if not better, rates against enemy Paladins through Lancebreaker (with Dancer support, she was able to two-shot Leonie with the Bolt Axe and canto back to safety at Gronder 2). Having an 8-move terrain-agnostic high-damage up-to-3-range magical attacker is pretty nice.

*Actually it looks like the DLC added one, Nuvelle Fliers Corps. Guessing that comes from Constance's paralogue.

[Wishblade]

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Mages are also incapable of equipping gauntlets just like the mounted classes so you can't even build your mages to try it out. It's the worst weapon in the game for sure.

It was the case before. But now if you really want to try Aura Knuckles, you can let Constance go War Cleric. It’s really destructive.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Having an 8-move terrain-agnostic high-damage up-to-3-range magical attacker is pretty nice.

With this I agree. I had a WL Annetta on maddening BL. Bolt Axe was mainly used against fortress knights, who have no speed or avoid, and paladins, who suffer from lance breaker. The sword generics have axe breaker, so forget about them. A bit off topic but I managed to hit (and destroy) Petra in BL Enbarr with Annetta’s silver axe at max linked attack giving ~70 hit, so hit is not a problem.

I think the weight on Bolt Axe is being overemphasized on, especially if you’re on maddening. Some enemies have ridiculous speed and Annetta doesn’t have that high of a speed growth to consistently double. Forget about doubling, it’s mainly the might and range that matters.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Wishblade

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Wishblade said:

It was the case before. But now if you really want to try Aura Knuckles, you can let Constance go War Cleric. It’s really destructive.

I would say it still is, given that they’re still rangelocked, and to be blunt, it says nothing good of the Aura Knuckles that I have to commit to a really gimmicky build to use them.

[NolanBaumgartner]

15 hours ago, Cysx said:

Magic:

Not balanced, but then again, spell lists are personal leading to characters with middling stats getting better spells(Dorothea), so on paper it's fine. But yeah some spells are clearly better than others and there's quite a bit of repetition, kinda wish they brought back the Tellius effectiveness(wind/ice beats fliers, thunder beats dragons, fire beats horses) to help with that.

That was for Reason though, Faith is much more problematic. Offensive spells being x2 against monsters globally with Seraphim alone at x3 would probably have been a pretty good idea, since as they are right now, they all tend to be pretty useless. Support wise, it's even worse, with Warp predictably being incredibly valuable in a context where its uses are recharged every new map, and there being no competition in terms of healing between those who have Physic/Fortify, and those who don't.
This would be the one aspect of "weapons" where I'd say they really messed up, too many Faith spells suck while a few are amazing, leading to very lopsided spell lists as said above.
 

Balancing Faith spells is a crapshow because anyone can have access to heals so long as they have enough skill, meaning it's easy to litter a roster with healers - and by extension, white magic. Whereas black magic is generally useless without sufficient Mag, even moderate amount of healing can make a big difference if enough people in your roster have it. And because of the incentive to have as many people in your roster with access to heals, white magic has to be tuned down.

[Cysx]

5 hours ago, NolanBaumgartner said:

Balancing Faith spells is a crapshow because anyone can have access to heals so long as they have enough skill, meaning it's easy to litter a roster with healers - and by extension, white magic. Whereas black magic is generally useless without sufficient Mag, even moderate amount of healing can make a big difference if enough people in your roster have it. And because of the incentive to have as many people in your roster with access to heals, white magic has to be tuned down.

... but considering most classes don't have access to magic at all, I don't think that's actually a problem; with that being said, that's not really what my criticism was. To be honest, support being a resource that recharges every map is a considerably more player friendly system than what we usually get and that's reason enough to rebalance... yet, a few key spells are almost better  than they've ever been. Thus, either you have one or several of these few and you're amazing, or you don't and you're comparatively next to worthless(at least when it comes to support).

And there's no real excuse for Faith combat magic largely being a waste of space.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Cysx

[Shadow Mir]

10 hours ago, NolanBaumgartner said:

Balancing Faith spells is a crapshow because anyone can have access to heals so long as they have enough skill, meaning it's easy to litter a roster with healers - and by extension, white magic. Whereas black magic is generally useless without sufficient Mag, even moderate amount of healing can make a big difference if enough people in your roster have it. And because of the incentive to have as many people in your roster with access to heals, white magic has to be tuned down.

Given that only a handful of classes use magic in the first place, that isn’t the problem. I’m more miffed with offensive white magic being a waste of space.

15 hours ago, Wishblade said:

I think the weight on Bolt Axe is being overemphasized on, especially if you’re on maddening. Some enemies have ridiculous speed and Annetta doesn’t have that high of a speed growth to consistently double. Forget about doubling, it’s mainly the might and range that matters.

The weight is only one issue. I’m more concerned about the shit accuracy - the real reason I consider the Bolt Axe a waste of space. Between the magic hit formula and the fact it’s already tied for the least accurate weapon in the game, I find it very, very, VERY hard to justify using the Bolt Axe.

On 2/23/2020 at 8:19 AM, Wishblade said:

Magic Bow: Worthless. Pathetic damage and there aren’t any competent users.

I’m not gonna lie - it’s still far better than the joke that is the Aura Knuckles.

[Wishblade]

15 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The weight is only one issue. I’m more concerned about the shit accuracy - the real reason I consider the Bolt Axe a waste of space. Between the magic hit formula and the fact it’s already tied for the least accurate weapon in the game, I find it very, very, VERY hard to justify using the Bolt Axe.

If you find it hard to land a hit with Bolt Axe, you probably aren’t using it right. There are only 2 competent users of the bolt axe, Edelgard and Annetta. I rarely use Edelgald so I’ll talk about Annetta. She can equip Gilbert for +3mt and +10 hit on BL. Axe prowess lvl5, Cichol Wyvern Corps, hit ring, dump everything that boosts hit on her. Forget about black magic since axe is her new magic. You can say that Annetta is crippled outside BL, which I won’t argue. In that case, don’t use Annetta or Bolt Axe.

15 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I’m not gonna lie - it’s still far better than the joke that is the Aura Knuckles.

It’s a joke. It’s a brilliant comedy on Constance, just watch how she punches basically anyone into oblivion with Aura Knuckles.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Wishblade

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Wishblade said:

It’s a joke. It’s a brilliant comedy on Constance, just watch how she punches basically anyone into oblivion with Aura Knuckles.

It’s brilliant comedy - except for the part where it’s too much input for not enough output, that is. Why in the name of Anankos would I bother with her (worthless) budding talent???

1 hour ago, Wishblade said:

If you find it hard to land a hit with Bolt Axe, you probably aren’t using it right. There are only 2 competent users of the bolt axe, Edelgard and Annetta. I rarely use Edelgald so I’ll talk about Annetta. She can equip Gilbert for +3mt and +10 hit on BL. Axe prowess lvl5, Cichol Wyvern Corps, hit ring, dump everything that boosts hit on her. Forget about black magic since axe is her new magic. You can say that Annetta is crippled outside BL, which I won’t argue. In that case, don’t use Annetta or Bolt Axe.

It’s ANNETTE, god damn it. If you have the audacity to back a gimmick, the least you could do is get her name right. Also, that implies that one, I’m willing to invest in axes for her (hell to the no), two, that I’m going to waste one of the good flying battalions on a magic attacker (get serious), and three, that I’m willing to go out of my way to get her into wyvern in the first place (fuhgeddaboudit).

[Fabulously Olivier]

On 2/23/2020 at 9:24 AM, Ertrick36 said:

I think they did a decent job balancing the weapons the way they intend for them to work, and it's in large part due to the durability system.

• Standard Weapons - The fodder weapons.  In most RPGs, these weapons would have a progression system that worked like this: start off using the low-grade stuff, find mid-or-high-grade stuff part way through, continue using the low-grade stuff throughout because it's plentiful, use mid-or-high-grade stuff only when facing tough opposition, then mid-to-late game you switch to using the mid-grade weapons as your fodder weaponry and maybe even the high-grade stuff as fodder for the last stretch.  To this end, Three Houses does just fine.
• Specialty Weapons - Niche weapons.  Maybe not actually used in the ways they're meant, but interesting regardless.  I feel like most people don't just use them willy-nilly, but are probably inclined to burn through their uses by demolishing strong enemies weak to them with combat arts.  I think ultimately they didn't quite work out so well because most enemies that are weak to specialty weapons either come late game or are also weak to magic.  I'll get to that later, but my point is that people probably won't be regularly bringing in maces and horseslayers simply because they're low on uses and have niche usage - they may use them infrequently enough that they'll even forget to bring a bunch of horseslayers to a map filled with horsemen.
• Magic Weapons - The hybrid choice.  Only really good for a select few characters - Edelgard, Felix, Ingrid, Manuela, and Lorenz.  If you try to make Annette efficient with axes, you either better train her in heavy armor to get that -3/-5 weight skill or enjoy wasting a unit's potential, and Marianne's not gonna see much use out of a levin sword unless the player wants to turn her into a flier.  Sure, not many spells match the lethal levels of a bolt axe's 14 might, but considering its weight is 15 and that most mages won't be able to easily offset that, along with the fact that it only has 25 uses and thus would need frequent repairs, it just isn't really worth it for mages to use.  And it sure as hell sucks to use for a physical combatant.  Ever tried getting Raphael to kill an enemy with a bolt axe?  It'd probably break before he was able to kill the enemy, and at that point it'd probably be a more efficient weapon anyway.
• Relics - What I said about standard weapons applies here, except these weapons pop up all throughout the story to be used by specific characters.  Interesting that the relics only work to maximum effectiveness in the hands of certain characters, and also interesting that those that don't bear crests will get damaged when they try to use relics.  They're high-grade weapons you will always want to save for a rainy day.
• Magic - Ho, magic is... well, it's kinda busted.  Or at least, Lysithea is busted.  The problem isn't that it's replenished after every fight, the problem is that a lot of enemies have lower Res than Def.  That, and a lot of units that are weak to specialty weapons are also pretty weak to magic.  Why use a hammer at all when you can just have Lorenz incinerate an armor knight from the inside?  Why fight the Death Knight with a horseslayer when you can just dark spike him with Lysithea, who's enough of a nuke that she'd probably just one-shot him?  In the right hands, magic is to Three Houses what scouts were to Valkyria Chronicles 1.  White magic sucks for combat, but that's to be expected.  I mean, it's goddamn white magic, it's not meant for offense.  With that said, the white magic specialty class, the Holy Knight, is obviously inferior to other magic-wielding classes.

When it all comes down to it, the thing that makes this balance work is the durability system.  You aren't scared into never using certain weapons for fear of them permanently breaking.  You can always repair a weapon, given you have the money and materials to do so.  But you aren't permitted to use weapons with total reckless abandon, partly because of the cost to repair but mainly because they may break when you really need them.  You aren't actively discouraged from using the Sword of the Creator - you can definitely make use of it without worrying about it becoming permanently unusable - but you also can't just use it all the time as your primary weapon because you'll blow through its 20 uses like it's nothing.  Really, it's kind of a brilliant system, and it really makes you wonder why they stopped using it after the Kaga days until this game came around.

It's not perfect, sure.  But I think it's better than it's been in the past.  I definitely prefer the weapon balance in this game to how it was done in either Awakening or Fates, the former which didn't do enough to discourage one's use of higher-tier weapons and the latter of which did too much to discourage the use of those same weapons while simultaneously doing nothing to balance the prf weapons, because everyone knows the lightning lobster king isn't broken at all with that thunder stick.

I'd add Marianne as one of the best magic weapon users. She has a prf magic sword. Her offensive spell list is pretty mediocre and Levin Swords give her 1-3 range. She also has a great Mag growth that far outshines her Str growth.

 

Plus, she's one of the best dancers in the game.

[Shadow Mir]

On 2/23/2020 at 11:40 AM, Glennstavos said:

The Longbow gives me a headache. Its extra range is provided for free by all the good combat arts and it requires the same material as brave weapons and second tier ranged weapons to repair/forge. It's durability is also very low.

To be fair, its extra range does help with linked attacks. Sure, some combat arts can replicate the range, but they can’t replicate that.

 

[Wishblade]

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

It’s brilliant comedy - except for the part where it’s too much input for not enough output, that is. Why in the name of Anankos would I bother with her (worthless) budding talent???

It’s ANNETTE, god damn it. If you have the audacity to back a gimmick, the least you could do is get her name right. Also, that implies that one, I’m willing to invest in axes for her (hell to the no), two, that I’m going to waste one of the good flying battalions on a magic attacker (get serious), and three, that I’m willing to go out of my way to get her into wyvern in the first place (fuhgeddaboudit).

Bruh, I’ve been reading it as Annetta for some hundred hours.

It’s not that Aura Knuckles and Bolt Axe are useless. You’re just unwilling to use them. Wasting Annette’s brilliant axe talent on her pathetic magic? Doesn’t make sense to me. There aren’t many candidates to Cichol Wyvern Corps anyway, as it requires authority A and probably a strength in authority. (And if you’re on NG+ you have multiple of them). Now with the DLC, you can give her the Nuvelle Flier Corps. Unless you’re trying to ORKO Petra with Annette, things work just fine.

Since you’re unwilling to try WL Annette, Bolt Axe is worthless to you. Annette is also worthless because she is a trash mage.

And, yes, Constance. Nothing is too much input if I don’t have to overcome any weakness. In fact, she has many strengths. You’re just unwilling to try unorthodox builds. Aren’t numbers as high as 40x2 satisfying? Is that not enough as an output?

Edited February 25, 2020 by Wishblade

[paladin21]

In my current run (hard AM), I've been using magic characters with their weapons of choice (Annette with axes and Mercedes with bows), while jumping between magic and physical classes. Both of them struggled at the beginning with their shaky strength, but using techniques helped them a lot to be actually useful. However, once they get access to magic weapons, either becomes a monster regardless of which class they're in. Obviously, using magic weapons while having spells ready in a magic class isn't advisable, but neither of them have 3-range spells, and the magic+ weapons can provide that perk.

Like them, mostly any other mage has, or can get, a proficiency in a weapon to develop a sort of 3-range spell with up to 35 charges, which is a lot. And getting arcane shards isn't that difficult if you feed the animals, all the animals, at least once a month.