Example of creative map

[Zuda]

Hi,

I'm just started to create my own fe8 hack game, in order to create a more enjoyable fe8 for me, because the vanilla game is pretty meh... for me.

What I want to do is'nt only gameplay things, rebalance and more interesting difficulty, I want also nearly all the map I find boring. And it's a thing I really like to explore : "what can you do with the fe concept game, what can you create, what make the map fun, and other tedious, etc"

What I want to ask you in this topic, is to suggest me some map that you find very fun, innovative, interesting to play, with a gimmick really special, etc, in the official fe game, or in a hack.

I'm a pretty bad player and I only play iron man in hard mode or maniac mode, so I only finish fe8. For the other, I never see all the map, and I really only know very well the first map (because even if it's a iron man, if my waifu died, it's just to hard for me to continue, so I restard the first map a lot). And I don't play all the fe game (miss radiant down and all the fe after the 12, and no fe before fe4 too), so my knowledge in fire emblem and what is a good map is pretty low.

That's why I create this topics, to complete my understanding of what make a map enjoyable for me. And what is the possibility and diversity of the map you can create.

 I already have my idea for the first map of fe8, because I really enjoy the start of many fe (exept fe8 and fe4). But for the mid game and end game, I need fresh idea. I don't have any xp of good map in endgame for exemple. Or I really don't know any desert map I enjoy.

So what an endgame map should have to be enjoyable for you ?

What did you like in desert map ? Have you some exemple of good desert map ?

Thanks for your response.

[eclipse]

These are questions, not a concept, so I'm going to move it accordingly.

And you've also answered your own question, albeit inadvertently.  Play games BESIDES FE8.  Sure, FE4 might be a pain in the butt due to its large maps, but it's drastically different.  As for how to get the older games. . .ROMs.  Find them yourself.

[Zuda]

I play several FE game. fe4 to fe9 and fe11 and fe12. Not complete all the game, but most of them I play more than the midgame (but each time, no enought character survive to reach the end game)

Start a run is long, and I not sure to surpass my personnal record each time, but it's not really the matter here.

The discussion "what is a good map design" is something so much more rich if there several person who don't have the same taste than just thinking about that by yourself. For exemple, I don't like Fe4 and find it pretty boring to play. I just did the first generation, and the begining of the second one, just to see it. But I quit playing it without dying, and it's the only fire emblem that I drop just like that. But even so, there many little point I could learn in map design, with fe4, even if the map design is why I dislike this game.

Such large map with just random ennemy, and most of the time, you just move your unit from point A to the point B like in chapter 2, is pretty plain map design for me. But fe4 is the only one that give you the feeling of "clash of two big army" and the phase where you try to approch the other big army and defeat them. It's just 10% of the time, but it's pretty fun. And it could be the gimmick or one or two map.

So you shouldn't explore only you taste. You should discuss with other people than is different from you, enjoy other thing, in order to improve your creativity. I already do my job, by analysing the map I enjoy, or the one I dislike, why, and how I can improve that. I watch many lets play of fe hack, and find some gimmick or thing that make the map special and I like. What I want, it's just to discuss and share about this work I already do, but I still need to do and work more of course.

For exemple, I never enjoy a desert map.
Fe8 desert map is boring, you just wait to reach the ennemy. Fe7, all the interesting it's outside the desert and rescuing Pent could be pretty random. Fe6 and his protect sophia, but quickly enought to unlock a gaiden chapter, was pretty tedious and I don't like it very much, but it's the more interesting one by so far. Fe9, there's no interest at all in this desert map for me. Fe11 and fe12 desert map was one of the worst maps for me. etc...

And that's why I continue to watch or play some desert map. But it's not the unique ways. You can also discuss, it's help a lot too. And not only me, but everyone. If there a post where you can find a set of very good map, or some point of view of player who explain why they like a particular map, it would help a lot of map designer (and every body could improve in map design. I play several hack, and like the official fe game, there so mucg more map pretty plain compared to map interesting)

Edited February 25, 2020 by Zuda
forget one point

[eclipse]

Let me repeat this one more time: PLAY MORE.

As in, finish the games.  If you can't even get past other games, you aren't going to understand why certain maps are regarded as good, while others are not.  At best, you'll merely be able to imitate what others say.

Yes, playing the series is long.  Yes, you are going to fail repeatedly.  But that's okay - learning how different FEs work and why they work is one of the steps towards creating a good hack.

Edited February 25, 2020 by eclipse

[Zuda]

Yeah, but this step is not only a question of play more.

Of course I play fire emblem game, and I will play more. But it's not suffisant. Discussion is important too. Discussion with other people with other taste. If not, why there are forum ?

Why are you so against sharing and exchange of experience ? Why playing duriing 10 years at fire emblem should be keep to myself ?

[Chocolate Kitty]

OP is just looking for examples from the community's perspective

By yelling at them to simply "PLAY MORE" you're effectively silencing any potential for a discussion to arise

 

Anyway

An endgame map to me should firstly feel like an endgame. I don't want to see a random level 14 mercenary running around, nor do I want to see iron lances. On the opposite side, I do not want to see a bunch of 20/20 units with all stats capped. There should be something going on on the map, not just "run and kill the boss". FE5 has the dreadlords for example, and FE16 VW

has the 10 elites

Some kind of subboss adds a nice element.

There are other things, such as dynamic events, like when fighting any of the final bosses in fe10, they have an AOE effect every so often.

It should feel like a rough fight to get to the end, but it shouldn't make me sit in place for several turns fending off infinite reinforcements. Surprises like traps, map changes, weather conditions, hidden rooms (think fe7), things like that. Not ambush spawns.

 

As for desert maps, the problem with them to me is they are too large most of the time and you are limited to moving 1-2 tiles per turn. Mixing in different tiles, such as plains, so you have sections that are faster than others helps alleviate the sluggish feel, as well as gives the player more options than just fliers/magi(if magi can sand walk). I personally have done a project that featured... 4? Desert maps within 6 chapters, and I received little complaints if any to my knowledge. Keeping them smaller, giving the player options, and either having a way to ensure the player can find the hidden desert item or explicitly make clear there are not any.

 

Those are just some thoughts

[Zuda]

Yeah, I like the idea of subboss. It's really enjoyable to beat a really strong opponent which move with their troups of unit on the battlefield, like in fe4. Strong boss that don't move is pretty dumb for me. And for the chapter 1 of my fe8 rework, I break this rule : the boss armor knight who normally wait into the gate to be kill, say "fuck off, I will go kill this faggot myself 'cause my soldiers are incompetent", and he go fight Seth and erika when they are encercle by troop. But he give the keep the gate charge to his second lol

Do you know if there a map with a concept like "they're a squad of only elite man in charge to kill you", like for exemple all the member of the black fang went to you to kill you, and not one by one ? Because on the paper the idea seems cool, but I thinks it's somethings hard to well execute. It's like level caped ennemy. If it's a matter only of stat, or luck based, it could be frustrating or hard to balanced, because you don't know the lvl or the player team, and favorised a team with one or two characters instead of well balanced xp in your team with complementarity in their utilities (what I want to favorised)

I imagine something like that :

1)first the squad is nearly invicible. They can kill you that easily, it's like a hard fight, but the odd to kill them is to dangerous to attemp in a ironman run (like the hit rate pretty is pretty cheat, you need to much it and they have some crit, etc)

2) you must have a part of the team in charge to slow down them. (used sleep stave, take some hit in a fort and back up, use mine, etc)

3) you have the other part of the team that should rush to do anothter quest. For example, you need to kill a character, and after that you can escape. Or you do something, like break a magic seal, and after that, the elite squad become less power full, and you could beat them.

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wow you make 4 desert map, you don't like fun lol ! To be fair, I think the problem is how they implemented it in the official fe game. In all the desert map they made, yes, they are pretty large, but the major problem is that you have many phase went you just have to go from a point A to a point B, with nothing to do. And generally, you don't have many flyer and magic users (except the game you can reclass). They should do more small desert map, yeah, at the early game, with a small team. But I think, a big one, with at least 3 flyers where you need to be fast in order to survive, and use cleaverly rescue drop feature, should be really cool.

But conceptualy, I think it cool be really great. For exemple you can't do a "you have to defeat a big army, largely superior to you, but you succeed to trap them into the desert. Now you have the mobility advantage, and so the table turned. Let's rate this guy, no with other power unit like you used too, but with weaker unit but best guerrilla strategy. But like always, easy to say, hard to do well.

Where is your hack ? I would want to see your desert map. Perhaps you're patch directly, or if there are some let's play of you're game, somewhere ?