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lushen124

Yune Randomizer: A Universal Fire Emblem Randomizer

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On 6/7/2021 at 3:26 AM, Vicious Sal said:

That's a pretty neat update! looking forward to more FE9 stuff. =]

Regarding FE10, though I always enjoy more people looking into the inner workings of FE10, there already exists an incredibly extensive Randomiser for FE10. 

Right. This isn't to take away from what already exists. Practically speaking, we don't need another FE10 randomizer. But part of why I want to work on one is for academic reasons, but most of it is because FE10 is my favorite, and I wanted to dig deep into it. The ideas I had were more around being able to randomize both FE9 and 10 simultaneously to the point that you can legitimately use transfer data between the two. Another smaller reason relates to one of my goals for this project, which was to make randomizing FE games more accessible to more people without needing significant know-how to operate. This is why, for example, FE9 doesn't require any additional tools for extraction or rebuilding (beyond you ostensibly extracting it from a Gamecube disc, which is platform agnostic), as I went through great lengths to make sure the randomizer can operate on the raw ISO file (since said tools are almost always locked to Windows users only).

18 hours ago, Kalieum said:

Not sure how useful this is, but I had some issues where the randomiser would close when I loaded a rom, which consistently happened over a good number of tries when trying to troubleshoot it. But, when I was going through methodically to be able to give a more useful report, it suddenly started working.

Specific order of actions undertook was
Try (untranslated, headered) FE4 rom on 0.93 x64 exe, program closes. (All failures were identical - after verifying the window would expand to its full size but before populating itself with widgets it would suddenly close).
Removed the header and changed extension from .smc to .sfc just in case, program closes.
Tried different JP FE4 rom, program closes.
Tried FE7 rom, program closes.
Tried JP FE8 rom, Yune complained about being unable to verify, told it it's FE8, program closes.
Downloaded & tried executable jar file, didn't even start. Not sure why. Navigating to the directory in a command prompt window and trying to run it that way didn't give any errors, but no window appeared and I didn't see java processes appearing in task manager.
Tried x86 executable, wouldn't open either.
Checked my jre version, slightly out of date. Updated, tried x64 exe and .jar again, same results.
Restarted computer, tried those two again, same results.
Tried last version of Yune I had (0.8.5 x64 executable), work without issue.
Downloaded source code zip from releases, tried x64 executable in \Executables\Windows, program closes.
Tried 0.9.2 x64 executable in \Executables\Windows\0.9.2, works just fine.
Tried 0.9.3 again, no-go.
Tried 0.9.2 again just in case it was a fluke or something(?), still works.
Wanted to confirm whether it was all games it didn't work with or not so opened some random non-FE game file in 0.9.3 to tell Yune that it was each game in turn to load each set of options in turn, they all suddenly work.
Load actual FE4 rom in 0.9.3, it's working.
Wonder if 0.9.2 still running in the background is somehow effecting this, close 0.9.2, try 0.9.3 again, it still works.

And that's where I am. It went from not working 100% of the time in an consistent manner to just working, but I figure it's still worth a bug report.

I ran into a similar issue and it might have a similar cause. The issue is when it tries to load your last used settings. Since I added new settings to the bundle, I upped the versioning of the saved settings. If the version doesn't match, it's supposed to wipe the settings and start fresh, but I think it doesn't do that in some cases (or I messed up the settings version in one of the versions). If you run into it again, let me know, but I'll look into trying to prevent this scenario. The main issue is that the preferences have some booleans that shouldn't be null, but are, which causes a crash when it tries to load the UI with the saved settings.

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19 minutes ago, lushen124 said:

Right. This isn't to take away from what already exists. Practically speaking, we don't need another FE10 randomizer. But part of why I want to work on one is for academic reasons, but most of it is because FE10 is my favorite, and I wanted to dig deep into it. The ideas I had were more around being able to randomize both FE9 and 10 simultaneously to the point that you can legitimately use transfer data between the two. Another smaller reason relates to one of my goals for this project, which was to make randomizing FE games more accessible to more people without needing significant know-how to operate. This is why, for example, FE9 doesn't require any additional tools for extraction or rebuilding (beyond you ostensibly extracting it from a Gamecube disc, which is platform agnostic), as I went through great lengths to make sure the randomizer can operate on the raw ISO file (since said tools are almost always locked to Windows users only).

 

I fully understand that motivation. FE10 is my favourite game as well. There's only a few people that are digging deep into FE10. Those being Dunal (whereever he is.), Lordmewtwo73, and I. With Heartlesseph making some really cool tools, though I haven't seen him around a lot lately. His stuff has been amazing to work with though. 
If you're ever intrested in talking about FE10, please do give me a call, I'd be happy to share what i know. ^^

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I'm having trouble opening Yune. I used to be on an ancient version, 0.8.5 or something, that would very quickly flash then closes itself. I updated to 0.9.3 and I'm still having the same issue. I updated my java to 1.8.0 update 291 with no luck, then downgraded to 8u261 because I saw you were using it. Still no luck, and for some reason doing "java -version" in cmd keeps checking for the deleted 8u291 folder instead of my installed 8u261. I was using another randomizer but it stopped keeping the character palletes to randomized classes for some reason. I want my gold and blue mogall Eirika dangit! I've had Yune installed for quite a long time but I've never actually successfully opened it 🙃 any tips?

EDIT: I fixed it. I left it in the download folder instead of moving it to the folder where I have my GBA roms and uninstalled/reinstalled Java. It works perfectly fine now. And the colors!

 

Edited by bobyjhon132
problem solved

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Edit: Ok nevermind, I just noticed if you don't promote instantly and use the Lunar and Solar thingy afterwards you can choose the normal promotion path for the class again.

 

The new update is really cool, thanks for that. Only thing I was wondering is if I always have to wait for the promotion of my randomized lord with the new update? For example do I always have to wait now until after the Renais chapter until I can promote my Eirika and Ephraim replacements and do I always have to promote them into the vanilla lord classes?

 

I always enjoyed not having to wait until then and being able to promote your lord early like your other characters. And especially not the boring lord classes.

 

 

Edited by DerLumpensammler

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Hi Lushen124, I have been using your randomizer on FE7 and FE8 for about two weeks now and have a few issues/suggestions to bring up. The way I am playing is Ironman + Hardmode, randomized recruitment (excluding thieves/special characters), randomized regular enemies, minor randomization to playable char growths and bases just for some spicyness, random rewards + occasional random drops, single RN (please see attached screenshots for FE7 and FE8 settings):

image.thumb.png.e14c56c69bf74f180668994e8869a5a8.png

image.thumb.png.44470ae39d3b15d4a21dbf016e2ee5ab.png

 

1. One issue I noticed is that when I lose an Ironman run, and try to re-randomize, I keep getting the same randomization (same order of characters recruited, etc.). Is it based on the randomizer seed phrase? If so, then is the set of phrases very limited (it seems so)? If so, can we just set our own randomizer seed phrase to make it extremely unlikely to repeat the same randomization?

2. Another issue I noticed is that even though I set max Delta to 5 for growths randomization, I don't remember ever seeing a growth that wasn't a multiple of 5 in the changelogs (even though max Delta of 5 should mean +-0, +-1, +-2, +-3, +-4 off the original growth stat should be possible). Besides this issue, I'd like to suggest to add an option for an offset: Let's say original growth for some stat was 50%. Then we apply max Delta of 5 so that means the new growth will be between 45-55%. Then the new setting would shift the growth so if the growth were, say, +2, then the new growth would be 45+2 through 55+2, so 47 through 57. Same wish for bases randomization.

3. "Strict Matching" weapon assignment might not be working as intended. For example, I remember sword users in early chapters of HHM randomizing sometimes with Slim Swords, sometimes with Iron Swords. And that's a very big difference in Might/useability of the character.

4. Random Enemy Drops have one issue which is that when they drop from sets of enemies that spawn from forts, they drop the same items.

5. For randomized recruitment:

  1. Getting too many of a certain class/weapon type. I had a few runs in FE7 with too many axe users (brigand, pirate, or fighters) or too many myrmidons. Those were a bit too tough for my taste. Suggestion/wish is to be able to limit how many of a certain class/weapon type specialist you receive in the early chapters of the game.
  2. Related to sub-point 1, is not getting healers/fliers early in the game (this really hurts in an Ironman run, especially the healer part!). Not getting a flier on Lyn mode Chapter 3, for example, means it's often impossible to visit the village in the top left. It would be nice to be able to set a minimum # of healers/fliers you receive before an arbitrary point/chapter in the game. And/or to be able to keep healer/flier slots like in vanilla (just like for thieves/special chars) so that only other healers can replace a healer, and other fliers can replace a flier (e.g. Serra, Priscilla, Pent, Renault are interchangeable as healers; Florina, Fiora, Farina, Heath, Vaida are interchangeable; no other characters can replace them at the points where you recruit them in the vanilla game).
  3. Suggestion to add partial recruitment randomization. i.e. To be able to set when certain characters are recruited. For example, let's say it's FE6 and one of my favorite characters is Sophia, and I want her to be available throughout the whole game, I could set her to be recruited/available in Chapter 1, and the rest of the characters' recruitment could be randomized.
  4. Not sure how to solve this problem yet...but my furthest Ironman in FE7 ended in Chapter 23 HHM because Erk replaced Pent, and Erk always dies in Turn 1 of the map. Even if it were not Ironman, I still automatically lose. I had a similar issue in FE8 where the dog monsters would spawn with Hellfang and be able to 1RKO a lot of characters early. Chapter 11 (saving L'Arachel map) is especially a problem with recruitment randomization because a lot of characters (including the two chars that need to be saved) can get 1RKO. I had to face Hellfang dog monsters, centaurs, Sharp Claw spiders, and even an Arch Mogall in that chapter and it was just too tough. For FE8, I think those types of enemies should only appear later in the game.
  5. Maybe add randomization options for weapon ranks?

6. For randomized enemies, I had one issue which is the Sniper on FE8 Chapter 9 got replaced with a Recruit. I did not expect the Recruit to be so strong and moved Dozla towards it thinking it was "just another Recruit". But he got 1RKO'd (please see attached screenshots). Not sure if this is an issue for normal runs. But for Ironman, it was a little frustrating to suddenly have a unit get one-shotted. At the time it happened, I wondered if something was wrong with the randomizer. Then I looked up the unit list for that map and figured it had replaced the Sniper.

7. In FE8, Trainee classes don't seem to be able to promote with Trainee Seal or even any of the normal promotion items. Only Master Seal seems to work.

 

SS_Randomized_CH9_SuperRecruit.png

SS_Randomized_CH9_SuperRecruit_B_1.png

Edited by SophiaOP

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Hello everyone

I have been trying to randomize FE7 for a while, these are the settings I use:

image.thumb.png.cea92bcee68009dddb6f8f367767dd2e.png

It seems to work fine but for some reason the growth rates aren't randomized, they remain unchanged for all characters.

Any idea what's going on?

Edit: Well here I am answering my own question, the use of any "Other Character Settings" cancels growth randomization. As long as neither "Randomize MOV", "Randomize CON" or "Randomize Affinity" is checked the growth rates randomization works as intended. I don't have a clue why but it works.

Edited by trankill

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On 6/18/2021 at 12:49 AM, DerLumpensammler said:

Edit: Ok nevermind, I just noticed if you don't promote instantly and use the Lunar and Solar thingy afterwards you can choose the normal promotion path for the class again.

 

The new update is really cool, thanks for that. Only thing I was wondering is if I always have to wait for the promotion of my randomized lord with the new update? For example do I always have to wait now until after the Renais chapter until I can promote my Eirika and Ephraim replacements and do I always have to promote them into the vanilla lord classes?

 

I always enjoyed not having to wait until then and being able to promote your lord early like your other characters. And especially not the boring lord classes.

 

 

Yeah, one of the changes the last release made was to enforce each game's fixed promotion event for the main lords. Part of this was more that I wanted to keep that progression intact, but most of it was because the fixed promotion event would demote an already promoted lord. You could probably just promote them again with the appropriate item, but I think this is a cleaner solution. If people feel strongly enough, I can make the entire change an option instead of just being the default, but the same code is also how the new Prf weapons work (or at least how they work alongside the old Prf weapons being locked to classes).

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On 7/3/2021 at 9:24 PM, SophiaOP said:

1. One issue I noticed is that when I lose an Ironman run, and try to re-randomize, I keep getting the same randomization (same order of characters recruited, etc.). Is it based on the randomizer seed phrase? If so, then is the set of phrases very limited (it seems so)? If so, can we just set our own randomizer seed phrase to make it extremely unlikely to repeat the same randomization?

1. The seeds that the randomizer cycles through is indeed a fairly small pool of quotes from the game you're randomizing, but the text field itself is editable, so you can type in whatever you want. The same seed will result in the same randomization, so if you want something completely random, you should type something random into the seed field.

Quote

2. Another issue I noticed is that even though I set max Delta to 5 for growths randomization, I don't remember ever seeing a growth that wasn't a multiple of 5 in the changelogs (even though max Delta of 5 should mean +-0, +-1, +-2, +-3, +-4 off the original growth stat should be possible). Besides this issue, I'd like to suggest to add an option for an offset: Let's say original growth for some stat was 50%. Then we apply max Delta of 5 so that means the new growth will be between 45-55%. Then the new setting would shift the growth so if the growth were, say, +2, then the new growth would be 45+2 through 55+2, so 47 through 57. Same wish for bases randomization.

2. I think it used to allow for weird growth values, but there was some feedback a while back that the growths should be multiples of 5. Maybe if the delta is small enough, it'll fall back to use all numbers instead of just multiples of 5. Redistribution method distributes in chunks of 5 anyway, so that stays as it is.

Quote

3. "Strict Matching" weapon assignment might not be working as intended. For example, I remember sword users in early chapters of HHM randomizing sometimes with Slim Swords, sometimes with Iron Swords. And that's a very big difference in Might/useability of the character.

3. This is actually intentional. The way strict matching works is that it groups weapons together by categories. Slim Swords fall into the same category as Iron Swords (as well as the Blades, but those start at D rank). This is so that if we need to change weapon type, they'll swap to another weapon in the same category. So both Slim and Iron Swords will become Iron/Slim Lances or Iron Axes once the weapon of the same rank is selected. If multiple choices are available after category and rank (as in this case), a random one is selected. Since Slim has no equivalent in Axes or the magic types, they get converted to the "Iron" equivalent. We could make a separate category for Slim if desired, but it would just be Slim Sword, Slim Lance, and maybe Short Bow, which are already somewhat rare to begin with. I'll leave it up to everybody else if we should make that distinction. My personal opinion is that they're fine being in the same group.

Quote

4. Random Enemy Drops have one issue which is that when they drop from sets of enemies that spawn from forts, they drop the same items.

4. This is how the game works normally, because the units that spawn in from reinforcements are coded identically to spawn on a turn counter. They could just be excluded from item drops, but if a reinforcement drops something, future reinforcements from the same group will continue to drop it.

Quote

Getting too many of a certain class/weapon type. I had a few runs in FE7 with too many axe users (brigand, pirate, or fighters) or too many myrmidons. Those were a bit too tough for my taste. Suggestion/wish is to be able to limit how many of a certain class/weapon type specialist you receive in the early chapters of the game.

1) Re: Class balance: This was brought up in the github (and maybe it was you that mentioned it), but I'm thinking the even class option should distribute based on promoted class and demote from there as necessary. This would make it much more likely for you to get an even blend throughout the game as it collapses the classes that promote to the same thing into a single entity.

Quote

Related to sub-point 1, is not getting healers/fliers early in the game (this really hurts in an Ironman run, especially the healer part!). Not getting a flier on Lyn mode Chapter 3, for example, means it's often impossible to visit the village in the top left. It would be nice to be able to set a minimum # of healers/fliers you receive before an arbitrary point/chapter in the game. And/or to be able to keep healer/flier slots like in vanilla (just like for thieves/special chars) so that only other healers can replace a healer, and other fliers can replace a flier (e.g. Serra, Priscilla, Pent, Renault are interchangeable as healers; Florina, Fiora, Farina, Heath, Vaida are interchangeable; no other characters can replace them at the points where you recruit them in the vanilla game).

2) Re: Healer Distribution: I'd say this is normally when you'd have to rely more heavily on Vulneraries to heal, or find ways of mitigating damage. That said, FE7 Lyn mode doesn't really give you any way of doing that until Ch. 7 when you can buy Vulneraries, which might be pushing it. FE6 gives you shops in Ch. 2 and FE8 in Ch. 4, so I think both of those should give you enough opportunity to pick up healing items. Maybe specifically for FE7, we can add an option (or have default logic) to make sure you get a healer by the time Serra joins.

Quote

Suggestion to add partial recruitment randomization. i.e. To be able to set when certain characters are recruited. For example, let's say it's FE6 and one of my favorite characters is Sophia, and I want her to be available throughout the whole game, I could set her to be recruited/available in Chapter 1, and the rest of the characters' recruitment could be randomized.

3) Re: Set Recruitment: This is close to the idea of having more robust controls for class randomization, or at least it runs into the same problem as that, which is that it would take a lot of space to implement this properly. Not to say that it can't be done, but it would probably require a breakout window, or just a redesign of the app to support this kind of UI. Not saying I don't think this would be a neat addition, but just that this would be fairly low on the priority list unless specifically requested by the community.

Quote

Not sure how to solve this problem yet...but my furthest Ironman in FE7 ended in Chapter 23 HHM because Erk replaced Pent, and Erk always dies in Turn 1 of the map. Even if it were not Ironman, I still automatically lose. I had a similar issue in FE8 where the dog monsters would spawn with Hellfang and be able to 1RKO a lot of characters early. Chapter 11 (saving L'Arachel map) is especially a problem with recruitment randomization because a lot of characters (including the two chars that need to be saved) can get 1RKO. I had to face Hellfang dog monsters, centaurs, Sharp Claw spiders, and even an Arch Mogall in that chapter and it was just too tough. For FE8, I think those types of enemies should only appear later in the game.

4) Re: Impossible Missions: It's surprising this is happening if enemies aren't buffed. Erk replacing Pent should be among the most doable situations if he's autoleveled correctly. The L'arachel situation is a bit more understandable, since I can guess what happened in that case. Entombed are considered promoted units, and if they randomize, they randomize into other promoted monsters. But since Entombed are generally garbage, there's a power spike when they become other monsters like Gwyllgis, who default to having Hellfang by the randomizer. I'm thinking Entombed need to be handled differently than other monsters, or at least they should spawn with the worst weapon a monster can use.

Quote

Maybe add randomization options for weapon ranks?

5) Re: Random weapon ranks: If there's a compelling reason why this should be added, it wouldn't be hard to do, but I can't think of one. Seems to me like it mostly upends game progression. Iron weapons can only get worse (by being weaker and less accessible) and Silver weapons can only get better (by being stronger and more accessible).

Quote

6. For randomized enemies, I had one issue which is the Sniper on FE8 Chapter 9 got replaced with a Recruit. I did not expect the Recruit to be so strong and moved Dozla towards it thinking it was "just another Recruit". But he got 1RKO'd (please see attached screenshots). Not sure if this is an issue for normal runs. But for Ironman, it was a little frustrating to suddenly have a unit get one-shotted. At the time it happened, I wondered if something was wrong with the randomizer. Then I looked up the unit list for that map and figured it had replaced the Sniper.

6. The sniper was replaced with a Super Recruit. Unfortunately the game doesn't have a way to make that clear, but on susbequent playthroughs, the Super-Trainee classes become available for Ross, Amelia, and Ewan. The randomizer treats these as Tier 2/promoted classes with promoted bases and caps beyond 20. There have been some requests to just remove these characters from the pool, but I haven't done that yet. Maybe it's worth putting these into an option to exclude from the class pool so that they don't show up. They're not particularly good classes, AFAIK.

Quote

. In FE8, Trainee classes don't seem to be able to promote with Trainee Seal or even any of the normal promotion items. Only Master Seal seems to work

7. Yeah, these seem to have broken in the latest update. I'll have to investigate.

Edited by lushen124
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14 hours ago, Hasechi said:

@lushen124 your universal randomizer can patch a rom without needing original GBA roms. Could you please do the same to this Yune Randomizer?

That would mean bundling the ROM, which I can't legally do. The old one didn't let you do this either, and as far as I know, none of the randomizers or tools do this for you.

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10 hours ago, lushen124 said:

That would mean bundling the ROM, which I can't legally do. The old one didn't let you do this either, and as far as I know, none of the randomizers or tools do this for you.

no. you're wrong. The old one able to do that (the one with florina icon). That tool can randomize a ROM that is edited or patched rom. 

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12 hours ago, Hasechi said:

no. you're wrong. The old one able to do that (the one with florina icon). That tool can randomize a ROM that is edited or patched rom. 

Oh, the ability to randomize a ROM that is edited you mean. You can do it with the new one too, but it'll ask you to select the correct game because it can't necessarily determine what you give it. It's also not guaranteed to work correctly, especially if the ROM is heavily modified.

image.png.361f5becc66fc1f14110970de76fb596.png

If you select the correct game, and your ROM is only slightly edited, it might work without issues, but if you've moved things or added entries into tables (like what the randomizer does normally or what most romhacks do), chances are the randomizer won't know what to do with them. In the future, I may look into adding a heuristics-based approach to determining the character/class/item data, but for now, much of the logic is specific to the base versions of those games.

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1 hour ago, lushen124 said:

Oh, the ability to randomize a ROM that is edited you mean. You can do it with the new one too, but it'll ask you to select the correct game because it can't necessarily determine what you give it. It's also not guaranteed to work correctly, especially if the ROM is heavily modified.

image.png.361f5becc66fc1f14110970de76fb596.png

If you select the correct game, and your ROM is only slightly edited, it might work without issues, but if you've moved things or added entries into tables (like what the randomizer does normally or what most romhacks do), chances are the randomizer won't know what to do with them. In the future, I may look into adding a heuristics-based approach to determining the character/class/item data, but for now, much of the logic is specific to the base versions of those games.

i see . thnak you for considering

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@lushen124

Quote

1. The seeds that the randomizer cycles through is indeed a fairly small pool of quotes from the game you're randomizing, but the text field itself is editable, so you can type in whatever you want. The same seed will result in the same randomization, so if you want something completely random, you should type something random into the seed field.

Aha. So that's why. Thanks for explanation.

Quote

2. I think it used to allow for weird growth values, but there was some feedback a while back that the growths should be multiples of 5. Maybe if the delta is small enough, it'll fall back to use all numbers instead of just multiples of 5. Redistribution method distributes in chunks of 5 anyway, so that stays as it is.

Ok I thought it might be a bug. But if you say it's supposed to work that way, then I take your word for it.

Quote

3. This is actually intentional. The way strict matching works is that it groups weapons together by categories. Slim Swords fall into the same category as Iron Swords (as well as the Blades, but those start at D rank). This is so that if we need to change weapon type, they'll swap to another weapon in the same category. So both Slim and Iron Swords will become Iron/Slim Lances or Iron Axes once the weapon of the same rank is selected. If multiple choices are available after category and rank (as in this case), a random one is selected. Since Slim has no equivalent in Axes or the magic types, they get converted to the "Iron" equivalent. We could make a separate category for Slim if desired, but it would just be Slim Sword, Slim Lance, and maybe Short Bow, which are already somewhat rare to begin with. I'll leave it up to everybody else if we should make that distinction. My personal opinion is that they're fine being in the same group.

Gotcha. I can't say I agree with you here about it being fine because 3 points diff. of Str that early in the game really changes things a lot/makes it difficult to get any finishing blows on chars that already struggle to get last hits (mostly a sword user problem). I would prefer a separate category for Slim/slim equivalent.

Quote

4. This is how the game works normally, because the units that spawn in from reinforcements are coded identically to spawn on a turn counter. They could just be excluded from item drops, but if a reinforcement drops something, future reinforcements from the same group will continue to drop it.

Got it. I think it would be nice to exclude reinforcements from item drops. It's kind of gamebreaking to get like 5+ Master Seals in a row from reinforcements 😛

Quote

1) Re: Class balance: This was brought up in the github (and maybe it was you that mentioned it), but I'm thinking the even class option should distribute based on promoted class and demote from there as necessary. This would make it much more likely for you to get an even blend throughout the game as it collapses the classes that promote to the same thing into a single entity.

It wasn't me that mentioned it, I only just discovered your randomizer in early July/late June.

My understanding is that the even class option doesn't work though unless we enable the option to randomize PC classes, right? I prefer canon classes, but just want enough healers/flyers (even just 1 of each is a godsend) in the early game so that certain tasks don't become impossible. I like your idea, but could you make it available to work with canon classes as well?

Quote

2) Re: Healer Distribution: I'd say this is normally when you'd have to rely more heavily on Vulneraries to heal, or find ways of mitigating damage. That said, FE7 Lyn mode doesn't really give you any way of doing that until Ch. 7 when you can buy Vulneraries, which might be pushing it. FE6 gives you shops in Ch. 2 and FE8 in Ch. 4, so I think both of those should give you enough opportunity to pick up healing items. Maybe specifically for FE7, we can add an option (or have default logic) to make sure you get a healer by the time Serra joins.

FE7: Lyn mode isn't a problem. It's cake whether getting healers/flyers early or not. It's early HHM that's a pain. I haven't played since my last post here, but iirc I pretty much used all my vulneraries when I didn't get early healers and it was insanely hard. Guaranteed healer in early HHM would be really nice.

FE6: I haven't tried FE6 with randomizer yet, but HM is already difficult in vanilla (hardest FE between 6,7,8). I have played vanilla HM FE6 trying to get full S ranks (non-Ironman). Adding on the difficulty of a unlucky randomization/vulnerary-only for early chapters + Ironman sounds like a nightmare.

FE8: The most doable of the three games for surviving early chapters with just vulneraries. I already had some unlucky randomizations and was able to survive them until I got a healer. But still would be nice to have 1 guaranteed healer by a certain chapter number.
 

Quote

3) Re: Set Recruitment: This is close to the idea of having more robust controls for class randomization, or at least it runs into the same problem as that, which is that it would take a lot of space to implement this properly. Not to say that it can't be done, but it would probably require a breakout window, or just a redesign of the app to support this kind of UI. Not saying I don't think this would be a neat addition, but just that this would be fairly low on the priority list unless specifically requested by the community.

Understood. I'm actually surprised more people haven't requested this.

Quote

4) Re: Impossible Missions: It's surprising this is happening if enemies aren't buffed. Erk replacing Pent should be among the most doable situations if he's autoleveled correctly. The L'arachel situation is a bit more understandable, since I can guess what happened in that case. Entombed are considered promoted units, and if they randomize, they randomize into other promoted monsters. But since Entombed are generally garbage, there's a power spike when they become other monsters like Gwyllgis, who default to having Hellfang by the randomizer. I'm thinking Entombed need to be handled differently than other monsters, or at least they should spawn with the worst weapon a monster can use.

In my save, Erk looks like this:

image.thumb.png.77de40f764ea70dcaa16ffd96fe5e39d.png

He gets 2HKO'd by Steel Lance Wyvern Riders (takes 15 dmg from each hit and ~59% chance for WR to hit). And I think 4 Wyvern Riders can attack him on the first turn. Even if he managed to survive the first turn, he would have to deal with about the same # of Wyvern Riders on the second turn as well since on the first turn he doesn't double/kill any of the WR. This is on Hector Hard Mode. I didn't buff enemies besides 5% chance for better weapon (you can see my settings in my previous post).

*Begin Edit*

I looked up Erk's average Lvl 6 Sage stats, and he should have 36.6 HP, 15.6 Mag, 15.6 Skl, 19 Spd, 10.2 Lck, 9.8 Def, 16.6 Res. This would give him the bulk to get 3HKO'd rather than 2HKO'd and if he lives the first turn, then all the wyvern that accked him on that round should be dead. It looks like he wasn't autoleveled correctly. I just don't know if it's because of a wrong setting or because of a bug.

*End Edit*

Agree regarding handling Entombed separately.

Quote

5) Re: Random weapon ranks: If there's a compelling reason why this should be added, it wouldn't be hard to do, but I can't think of one. Seems to me like it mostly upends game progression. Iron weapons can only get worse (by being weaker and less accessible) and Silver weapons can only get better (by being stronger and more accessible).

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant random weapon ranks for each character, not each weapon type gets a random rank. So like if character A starts with sword rank B and lance rank D, then you can randomize how far off the original ranks you want. So if you set a difference of 1 rank, then character A starts with a sword rank C through A, and lance rank D through B. (Probably better to use exact rank points difference to do this though since each rank doesn't weigh the same # of points).

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6. The sniper was replaced with a Super Recruit. Unfortunately the game doesn't have a way to make that clear, but on susbequent playthroughs, the Super-Trainee classes become available for Ross, Amelia, and Ewan. The randomizer treats these as Tier 2/promoted classes with promoted bases and caps beyond 20. There have been some requests to just remove these characters from the pool, but I haven't done that yet. Maybe it's worth putting these into an option to exclude from the class pool so that they don't show up. They're not particularly good classes, AFAIK.

Yeah I guess it's not a big issue for non-Ironman. And for Ironmanners, well just need to learn about it once to become careful.

Of course, more options never hurt either 😛

Quote

7. Yeah, these seem to have broken in the latest update. I'll have to investigate.

Thank you.

Edited by SophiaOP
Forgot to reply to some things

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On 8/21/2021 at 9:26 PM, SophiaOP said:

Gotcha. I can't say I agree with you here about it being fine because 3 points diff. of Str that early in the game really changes things a lot/makes it difficult to get any finishing blows on chars that already struggle to get last hits (mostly a sword user problem). I would prefer a separate category for Slim/slim equivalent.

It's a small difference later in the game, but I'll agree that it can make a larger difference in the early game. I could make it less common in the beginning of the game, but at the same time, it's only in the beginning of the game where you would see these kinds of weapons to begin with and the only time when using them actually makes sense (unless you're specifically setting up kills). At the same time, Iron Swords are purchasable very early in the game for all three GBAFE titles, so it shouldn't be too problematic to get better gear.

On 8/21/2021 at 9:26 PM, SophiaOP said:

Got it. I think it would be nice to exclude reinforcements from item drops. It's kind of gamebreaking to get like 5+ Master Seals in a row from reinforcements 😛

To me, this is part of the fun of the randomizer. Alongside the Slim Sword argument above, sometimes the randomizer makes your life harder, but it can also make your life easier too. For me, neither of these are strictly issues in and of themselves. Additional context could make them larger issues, but a character you like/want to use starting off difficult to use isn't unheard of, and the enemy being particularly generous with drops also isn't unheard of.

On 8/21/2021 at 9:26 PM, SophiaOP said:

It wasn't me that mentioned it, I only just discovered your randomizer in early July/late June.

My understanding is that the even class option doesn't work though unless we enable the option to randomize PC classes, right? I prefer canon classes, but just want enough healers/flyers (even just 1 of each is a godsend) in the early game so that certain tasks don't become impossible. I like your idea, but could you make it available to work with canon classes as well?

Randomize PC classes is required, but I had assumed you were using this option already, unless you're strictly using random recruitment. But if that were the case, you should have a relatively even blend of classes for the entire game, as random recruitment only promotes/demotes units at most. Also, you'll have to define what you mean by canon classes. The issue in github was about the evenly assigned classes option don't feel evenly assigned, and that's mostly due to how it currently works. The example given by the github issue was that it would consider a final roster of 4 berserkers evenly assigned because pirate, corsair, brigand, and berserker are all "different classes" according to the randomizer. The proposal I made was to assign promoted classes and demote as needed, which should do a better job of mixing up the final roster of characters, as a second Berserker could only be assigned once until we've exhausted the other promoted classes.

On 8/21/2021 at 9:26 PM, SophiaOP said:

FE7: Lyn mode isn't a problem. It's cake whether getting healers/flyers early or not. It's early HHM that's a pain. I haven't played since my last post here, but iirc I pretty much used all my vulneraries when I didn't get early healers and it was insanely hard. Guaranteed healer in early HHM would be really nice.

FE6: I haven't tried FE6 with randomizer yet, but HM is already difficult in vanilla (hardest FE between 6,7,8). I have played vanilla HM FE6 trying to get full S ranks (non-Ironman). Adding on the difficulty of a unlucky randomization/vulnerary-only for early chapters + Ironman sounds like a nightmare.

FE8: The most doable of the three games for surviving early chapters with just vulneraries. I already had some unlucky randomizations and was able to survive them until I got a healer. But still would be nice to have 1 guaranteed healer by a certain chapter number.

Hector mode has purchasable vulneraries every 1 - 2 Chapters between 12 and 18. I'm pretty sure all of these early games can be done with just vulneraries, except maybe on hard mode in some cases. But it also wouldn't be too hard to add an option to guarantee a healer by the second chapter in most of these games. In FE6, it means one of Allen, Lance, Bors, Wolt, Marcus, Elen, Dieck, Lot, Wade, or Shanna is a healer. In FE7 (excluding Lyn mode), one of Lowen, Rebecca, Marcus, Dorcas, Bartre, Serra, Matthew, or Oswin is a healer. In FE8, one of Seth, Franz, Gilliam, Moulder, or Vanessa is a healer. FE7 also has the unfortunate distinction of not having an unpromoted male healing class, so with strict gender requirements, we'd be back down to Marcus, Rebecca or Serra.

On 8/21/2021 at 9:26 PM, SophiaOP said:

Understood. I'm actually surprised more people haven't requested this.

Lots of people have requested something along these lines. The space needed for this is just huge to be able to specifically define each individual character and their class pool. I have some ideas now of what this might look like, so I may look into it sooner, rather than later.

On 8/21/2021 at 9:26 PM, SophiaOP said:

I looked up Erk's average Lvl 6 Sage stats, and he should have 36.6 HP, 15.6 Mag, 15.6 Skl, 19 Spd, 10.2 Lck, 9.8 Def, 16.6 Res. This would give him the bulk to get 3HKO'd rather than 2HKO'd and if he lives the first turn, then all the wyvern that accked him on that round should be dead. It looks like he wasn't autoleveled correctly. I just don't know if it's because of a wrong setting or because of a bug.

So I can explain the discrepancy in stats, because the randomizer autolevels promoted units to 10/X instead of 20/X. This is primarily to make newly created prepromotes not completely busted with their higher growth rates. In the case of slots where an NPC needs to live, maybe it's worth doing the full 20/X. Alternatively, we use a middle ground of 15/X. I didn't want to invalidate the earlier characters with prepromotes, but maybe that's fine, and we just use 20/X all around. It would make late game/ironmans much more reliable.

On 8/21/2021 at 9:26 PM, SophiaOP said:

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant random weapon ranks for each character, not each weapon type gets a random rank. So like if character A starts with sword rank B and lance rank D, then you can randomize how far off the original ranks you want. So if you set a difference of 1 rank, then character A starts with a sword rank C through A, and lance rank D through B. (Probably better to use exact rank points difference to do this though since each rank doesn't weigh the same # of points).

Oh, I misunderstood. I had considered this for a bit, but it runs into a similar issue with changing weapon ranks on weapons, because it generally buffs early game characters (because ranks can't go lower than E) and nerfs late game characters (whose primary benefit is their A rank in weapons). Characters in the middle are fine though.

But if we're using the numeric values, then maybe it's doable, even if it's not entirely clear what's happening. The result is that characters either have a slight head start towards their next rank (which can be nice in early game) or they can be slightly behind what they should have (which isn't a complete dealbreaker). I'd have to modify the existing logic slightly to accomodate partial weapon levels, but I think it could be interesting. I'll definitely look into this option.

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The Yune Randomizer is absolutely amazing and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I do have a question that I can't seem to find an answer or fix to though. I really enjoy Fire Emblem 8 since it throws monster classes into the mix. However, I've noticed that the Growths Randomization doesn't seem to change anything. I've tested it multiple times with different settings and making sure I was using the US version of the game. No matter what I do, the character growths always remain exactly the same. Everything else works perfectly (bases, con, mov, class changes) but the character growth %s remain unchanged. Maybe I missed something somewhere but any advice would be much appreciated. 😄

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14 hours ago, Jifflez said:

The Yune Randomizer is absolutely amazing and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I do have a question that I can't seem to find an answer or fix to though. I really enjoy Fire Emblem 8 since it throws monster classes into the mix. However, I've noticed that the Growths Randomization doesn't seem to change anything. I've tested it multiple times with different settings and making sure I was using the US version of the game. No matter what I do, the character growths always remain exactly the same. Everything else works perfectly (bases, con, mov, class changes) but the character growth %s remain unchanged. Maybe I missed something somewhere but any advice would be much appreciated. 😄

I believe a bug was introduced in the latest version where randomizing move or con overwrote the growth modifications. I haven't had time to look into it, but if you're mostly dealing with GBAFE, then using an older version can potentially sidestep that. Otherwise, don't use MOV/CON randomization if you want growth randomization for the time being. I'll work on getting it fixed for the next release (which is TBD at the moment).

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1 hour ago, lushen124 said:

I believe a bug was introduced in the latest version where randomizing move or con overwrote the growth modifications. I haven't had time to look into it, but if you're mostly dealing with GBAFE, then using an older version can potentially sidestep that. Otherwise, don't use MOV/CON randomization if you want growth randomization for the time being. I'll work on getting it fixed for the next release (which is TBD at the moment).

Ah gotcha. Thanks for the response too. I'll try troubleshooting it a but more and worst case will revert to the previous version. :) I've had success with just strictly random growths or random classes but mixing both together seems to cause issues with one being overwritten.

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Hello, a friend of mine and me are playing FE4 Randomizers right now. My friend got to Gen 2 and for some reason he can't save his game normally anymore. Only Save states seem to work. But whenever he wants to save manually or using the auto save fuction the game crashes and his save gets deleted.  I don't know if it's because of the Randomizer or because of the rom. But since it worked for all of Gen 1 and stopped working out of nowhere in Gen 2 I thought it would be better to report that issue.

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On 8/23/2021 at 11:07 AM, lushen124 said:

It's a small difference later in the game, but I'll agree that it can make a larger difference in the early game. I could make it less common in the beginning of the game, but at the same time, it's only in the beginning of the game where you would see these kinds of weapons to begin with and the only time when using them actually makes sense (unless you're specifically setting up kills). At the same time, Iron Swords are purchasable very early in the game for all three GBAFE titles, so it shouldn't be too problematic to get better gear.

To me, this is part of the fun of the randomizer. Alongside the Slim Sword argument above, sometimes the randomizer makes your life harder, but it can also make your life easier too. For me, neither of these are strictly issues in and of themselves. Additional context could make them larger issues, but a character you like/want to use starting off difficult to use isn't unheard of, and the enemy being particularly generous with drops also isn't unheard of.

Randomize PC classes is required, but I had assumed you were using this option already, unless you're strictly using random recruitment. But if that were the case, you should have a relatively even blend of classes for the entire game, as random recruitment only promotes/demotes units at most. Also, you'll have to define what you mean by canon classes. The issue in github was about the evenly assigned classes option don't feel evenly assigned, and that's mostly due to how it currently works. The example given by the github issue was that it would consider a final roster of 4 berserkers evenly assigned because pirate, corsair, brigand, and berserker are all "different classes" according to the randomizer. The proposal I made was to assign promoted classes and demote as needed, which should do a better job of mixing up the final roster of characters, as a second Berserker could only be assigned once until we've exhausted the other promoted classes.

Hector mode has purchasable vulneraries every 1 - 2 Chapters between 12 and 18. I'm pretty sure all of these early games can be done with just vulneraries, except maybe on hard mode in some cases. But it also wouldn't be too hard to add an option to guarantee a healer by the second chapter in most of these games. In FE6, it means one of Allen, Lance, Bors, Wolt, Marcus, Elen, Dieck, Lot, Wade, or Shanna is a healer. In FE7 (excluding Lyn mode), one of Lowen, Rebecca, Marcus, Dorcas, Bartre, Serra, Matthew, or Oswin is a healer. In FE8, one of Seth, Franz, Gilliam, Moulder, or Vanessa is a healer. FE7 also has the unfortunate distinction of not having an unpromoted male healing class, so with strict gender requirements, we'd be back down to Marcus, Rebecca or Serra.

Lots of people have requested something along these lines. The space needed for this is just huge to be able to specifically define each individual character and their class pool. I have some ideas now of what this might look like, so I may look into it sooner, rather than later.

So I can explain the discrepancy in stats, because the randomizer autolevels promoted units to 10/X instead of 20/X. This is primarily to make newly created prepromotes not completely busted with their higher growth rates. In the case of slots where an NPC needs to live, maybe it's worth doing the full 20/X. Alternatively, we use a middle ground of 15/X. I didn't want to invalidate the earlier characters with prepromotes, but maybe that's fine, and we just use 20/X all around. It would make late game/ironmans much more reliable.

Oh, I misunderstood. I had considered this for a bit, but it runs into a similar issue with changing weapon ranks on weapons, because it generally buffs early game characters (because ranks can't go lower than E) and nerfs late game characters (whose primary benefit is their A rank in weapons). Characters in the middle are fine though.

But if we're using the numeric values, then maybe it's doable, even if it's not entirely clear what's happening. The result is that characters either have a slight head start towards their next rank (which can be nice in early game) or they can be slightly behind what they should have (which isn't a complete dealbreaker). I'd have to modify the existing logic slightly to accomodate partial weapon levels, but I think it could be interesting. I'll definitely look into this option.

I just wanna point out that this is at least the second complaint in this thread about pre-promotes being really weak, and I have had numerous discussions about this sort of thing in various discord channels. Me and a lot of other people are tired of having Pent and Jaffar replacements that die on turn 1, and just generally having crappy units. My personal recommendation would be to set it to level 20, but at the very least just make it higher than 10. Maybe you could make the way they autolevel an option you can customize? These units are always awful and it sucks.

Edited by Jerry311

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I'm having a problem with randomizing FE6. I've tried 11 times now and I can't get Echidna to randomize to an unpromoted class. The class and recruitment settings I'm using are in the screenshot below. Earlier, I couldn't even get her to not take Cecilia's place until I selected the "Use Slot Class" setting. I've also tried with and without the "Assign Classes Evenly" option and it makes no difference. This doesn't affect any other pre-promoted character and I remember being able to randomize Echidna into an unpromoted unit in previous versions. I'm using the latest version (0.9.3). Any help would be appreciated.

847828184_ClassandRecruitmentsettings.PNG.b2f1b389265ae86aa2121e54eb310083.PNG

Edited by Firion231

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Found another problem while trying to randomize FE6. I tried randomizing growth rates and set the minimum growth to 25, but no matter which of the three modes I select, there are still growths under 25. Additionally, sometimes when I select "Randomize Absolute" it just uses the character's default growth rates instead of generating new ones. I've spent the past hour or two checking different options and trying to generate a satisfactory randomizer seed and these setbacks are very frustrating.

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On 9/19/2021 at 3:38 PM, Robinjonator said:

Hello, a friend of mine and me are playing FE4 Randomizers right now. My friend got to Gen 2 and for some reason he can't save his game normally anymore. Only Save states seem to work. But whenever he wants to save manually or using the auto save fuction the game crashes and his save gets deleted.  I don't know if it's because of the Randomizer or because of the rom. But since it worked for all of Gen 1 and stopped working out of nowhere in Gen 2 I thought it would be better to report that issue.

That's the first time I've heard of it. Do you have the settings you used? Maybe some of the recent changes I made broke something. I think the most recent thing I did was about Seliph's inheritance being unlocked for more holy blood choices and the option to remove Pursuit and let AS dictate follow up attacks.

On 9/25/2021 at 10:42 AM, GoatLunchbox said:

How long does it typically take for the pallete data to load?

Shouldn't take that long. Which file are you loading? And is it reproducible?

On 10/1/2021 at 1:00 PM, LethalAether said:

when i randomized the growths in FE7, they dont change from their Vanilla growths

There's a bug in the latest version where randomizing MOV/CON accidentally wipes away changes for growth rates. If you have that option checked, you can try unchecking it for the time being. I'll look into a fix for it.

On 10/14/2021 at 8:56 PM, Jerry311 said:

I just wanna point out that this is at least the second complaint in this thread about pre-promotes being really weak, and I have had numerous discussions about this sort of thing in various discord channels. Me and a lot of other people are tired of having Pent and Jaffar replacements that die on turn 1, and just generally having crappy units. My personal recommendation would be to set it to level 20, but at the very least just make it higher than 10. Maybe you could make the way they autolevel an option you can customize? These units are always awful and it sucks.

Yeah, definitely heard a lot on my side as well. I think I'll go ahead and just set it to 20 for toggling between promotion and demotion. Or even just 20 for promotion and leave demotion at 10, before we end up with garbage demoted units. Or, as you said, just make these adjustable, with defaults set to 20 and 10 for promotion and demotion, respectively. For a randomizer, better to err on the side of giving more to the player than making it artificially difficult.

On 10/30/2021 at 4:23 AM, Firion231 said:

I'm having a problem with randomizing FE6. I've tried 11 times now and I can't get Echidna to randomize to an unpromoted class. The class and recruitment settings I'm using are in the screenshot below. Earlier, I couldn't even get her to not take Cecilia's place until I selected the "Use Slot Class" setting. I've also tried with and without the "Assign Classes Evenly" option and it makes no difference. This doesn't affect any other pre-promoted character and I remember being able to randomize Echidna into an unpromoted unit in previous versions. I'm using the latest version (0.9.3). Any help would be appreciated.

847828184_ClassandRecruitmentsettings.PNG.b2f1b389265ae86aa2121e54eb310083.PNG

So, what's not immediately obvious is that the game tries to keep within the bounds of the original game when it comes to assigning new classes to units. Echidna likely won't ever be an unpromoted class because an unpromoted version of her normal promoted class doesn't exist (the female Mercenary). As such, she should be limited to any other promoted slot since you allowed cross-gender assignments (without it, she would be locked to only female prepromote slots, of which, Cecilia is one of 4 slots I can think of, the others being Juno, Igrene, and Niime.). That said, there are two potential issues here. One is that if you did have "Allow Cross-gender assignments" checked, then Echidna should be jumping around a lot more than just ending up with Cecilia's slot (assuming you are using different seeds).

The other is that maybe Allow Cross-gender assignments should also unlock these characters that can't demote to a valid class normally to demote to their closest analogue. Funnily enough, this only affects Echidna in FE6, as being the only one that doesn't have a directly demoted class to fall on. It's a much bigger issue in FE7, because most prepromoted female units don't have their corresponding unpromoted classes.

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