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LelouchUzumaki

Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?

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5 minutes ago, LelouchUzumaki said:

Unfortunately I don't have to assume; I and others have been attacked on places like Reddit and YouTube for expressing fondness for Flayn. Also, my having an opinion and wanting it respected is "worrying"? There is no need to make this about me as a person, so also ask you to not project things onto me either.

Oh hell yes there is a reason.  And now I'm going to quote you repeatedly.  Starting. . .here.

First, we are NOT Reddit/YouTube.  You'd know this if you did a little bit of research - I have a heavier hand when it comes to attacking the person because they hold some opinion-or-other.  You wanting THIS type of opinion to be respected is very worrying - you liking this particular pairing isn't going to screw you out of a house loan.  It's a video game.  There's no RL consequences for people not approving of it.

And lastly, that little parting shot.  We're a Fire Emblem board, not your personal validation group.  So who cares if someone doesn't like your pairing for whatever reason?  Lurking would've given you a better feel for how things are run here, because I do NOT approve of personal attacks due to a video game opinion.  As for this?  I honestly don't care about who you ship Byleth with, but I do care about how you think you're going to be received, and responding before anyone's said anything about it.  That's bad.

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:

I am a massive Flayn fan and I love seeing romantic art or fanfics of her and Byleth together, but this is sadly a pairing that either goes ignored or is openly vilified by much of the FE fanbase*.

*To be clear, I'm not referring to NSFW content of any kind, so don't even try to throw that argument out. If you have to make this about sex, that's on you.

Openly vilified here?  News to me.  And then there's that "responding before other people can" bit, which tells me that you're really insecure about this.  Because if the discussion went to NSFW things, I would step in and shut it down.  I may not be here 24/7, but I do try to keep this place relatively clean.

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:

Mind you, this same fanbase has no issues with romantic Flayn pairings in general (Flayn x Dimitri seems to be wildly popular for some reason) but only is it when Byleth is involved that people seem to get up in arms.

On this site?  Again, news to me.

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:

Yes, there are people who hate characters like Edelgard and Rhea, but nonetheless there are tons of art and stories of Byleth with them. Flayn by herself doesn't attract nearly as much vitriol (that I'm aware of), yet she's one of the characters least represented in Byleth ships (and yes, I know there are others, no need to bring it up).

My favorite characters have virtually no fanfics, and that's fine.  We all have our likes/dislikes.  Go write your own fanfics if you're that set on Flayn.  I'm not a fan of her, and no one else should be forced to be one.

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:

Flayn fans are also routinely mocked and insulted, and whenever Flayn x Byleth content IS created, it's always met with the same derision and backlash, often couched as "memeing". This is grossly unfair to Flayn and her fans, and both deserve better treatment.

Oh believe me, if there was that much mockery here, I would've put a stop to it.  Notice how the discussions about Edelgard/Rhea are relatively muted?  And no, you don't deserve "better" treatment - you'll get the same treatment from me as whatever other ships there are.

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:

I know what many peoples' first objection is going to be to these points: "Flayn is a young child! Loving her or wanting her to be with Byleth is wrong and you are sick for it!" While this amounts to nothing but an empty and unwarranted personal attack, there are three reasons why it's completely invalid:

Once again, you predict what hasn't been said.  Which again wouldn't fucking fly here.  Notice a pattern?

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:
  • Flayn is not a child or "loli" as people often label her. She has a teenage physique and is literally coded as being of 17 years of age (I'm not going to bother going deeper on this point because detractors will accuse me of "fixating on her body"

Flayn's hair is more offensive than this IMO.

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:
  • Even disregarding the first point, no one is ever given hate for pairing Flayn with other characters as I've mentioned multiple times now. If Flayn is "too young" to be romantically involved at all, why is it still acceptable to pair her with Dimitri, Ferdinand, Linhardt, etc? Why is it ONLY with Byleth that it's a problem?

I much prefer her unpaired ending, thankyouverymuch.

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:
  • People say they don't like pairing her because she "looks too young", but that doesn't stop the plethora of Bernadetta or Lysithea x Byleth content being produced, as well as the majority positive reception it gets in contrast (and yes, I do mean pre-timeskip).

Bold of you to assume that your detractors all take part in this.

7 hours ago, LelouchUzumaki said:

In summation, I am one among many passionate Flayn fans and we will continue to be her fans no matter how many insults and memes people bombard us with. Flayn is a kind, sweet and wonderful girl, and she deserves way more love and respect than this fanbase gives her, and so do we.

Honestly?  You need to take a long, hard look at all the things I pointed out, and ask yourself why this matters so much.  Assuming negative things means that people will respond negatively.  Are you trying to feed a victim complex?  Or do you truly think that the FE fandom is the same everywhere you go?  And if so, then why are you even here, if it's so bad that you feel the need to justify complaints that you haven't received?

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22 minutes ago, LelouchUzumaki said:

Unfortunately I don't have to assume; I and others have been attacked on places like Reddit and YouTube for expressing fondness for Flayn. Also, my having an opinion and wanting it respected is "worrying"? There is no need to make this about me as a person, so also ask you to not project things onto me either.

Dude you need to chill a little bit. Not everything is an attack alright. I’ve lived long enough to know that much and I learned that the hard way. There’s a difference between wanting respect for your opinion and feeling insecure/entitled about it. No need to get so defensive over a simple joke of Seteth’s over protective and over bearing nature or people not feeling comfortable with the ship for whatever reason they may have.

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1 hour ago, Zeake said:

This conversation is moronic. There are far worse deviant pairings of sodomite persuasion in this game, that folks could and should be pointing fingers at and deriding. 

fucking lmao. please excuse yourself from my home, permanently, thank you.

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I'm aiming for her in my Golden Deer play through. She's absolutely adorable, and Seteth is easily one of my favorite characters, so the two of them together is fantastic. 

Spoiler

Also, how can you turn down a Saint? It's like being with a Goddess without the weirdness that comes with supporting Rhea or Sothis.

 

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5 hours ago, Crysta said:

She looks like a younger teenager than the others and that doesn't change over the time skip.

She also at times acts like a younger teenager in spite of her age.

You can ramble about technicalities, but it doesn't matter - that's how she's perceived. That's probably your most straightforward answer.

 

I think Crysta just summed up everything perfectly here. Most people feel uncomfortable with S-ranking Flayn, because it feels like a adult x teenager relationship. 

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Is it really such a contested pairing?

I ask since in general I have found it hard to find hetero Male Byleth pairings that don't include either Edelgard, Bernadetta, Lysithea, or to a somewhat lower extent from the other three Marianne.

I might just be looking in the wrong places but I've found if I use Male Byleth without those characters I find myself out of luck.

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imma be honest, it... just never occurred to me as a potential ship? 💦 now that it's mentioned tho i'm all for it if only on principle of "fuck everyone getting their on their moral high horses it's fiction",,,. 

and also like, flayn can be pretty childish at times but she also has some moments where her maturity/age really shows (like right after the timeskip on routes where you have her, and she talks about war 'again'). i can kinda see how ppl would lump her with nowi, but i don't really agree... nowi's a lot older even in keet years and has an entirely different (questionably well written) loli thing going on orz kdjfjfjf// the character I think she's most comparable to is mercedes honestly... it's true that in keet years she is still p young, but trying to match that w human maturity/ages is an apples to oranges situation imo.

as an eliwood fan who also has a lotta fe7 side chara ships i can relate to the niche interest life tho😔💦

edit: i feel like the fe community on places like twitter vs reddit or here are significantly different tbh? like, I'm pretty intimately familiar with the kind of attacking op mentioned. during the fates influx of new fans in particular it got super toxic bc of corrin's family situation- anyone who shipped corrin/royals would be subject to some seriously middle school clique-y harassment shit bc ~eeewww you support incest irl, go die~~ ...ughhh......

Edited by geckokujou

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Well, I did marry Flayn on my first playthrough with Golden Deer. She made me smile, and gave me feelings to protect her.

But that is the case with many other characters in the game. Some of whom I have my Byleth marry.

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 personally I think it's the fact of the matter that even with characters like Bernadetta and Lysithia, even other characters like Petra. Is the fact that unlike them. Flayn doesn't age. What I mean to say is she shows no maturing as a Woman.

I saw Petra and said "Dayum she fine" but then saw she was 15 and was really upset and surprised. But then she turned 20 and I said Dayum again. For me it's the fact that she never appears older. You can be younger and still be more mentally matured then older people. I know personally, but that dosent mean Its okay to day a 13 when your 21 just cause there mentally older. 

As well as with characters like Now I and Nix.( While I personally don't like the paring) these two have the excuse of "Oh I'm really 10,000 years old." Or, "I'm actually mentally in my 50's." Flyan dosent get that really. Sure she mature but not physically. Im not even saying it's not good to like her. Just it's not my thing.

Edited by Matthew's apprentice
Missed a word

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31 minutes ago, Matthew's apprentice said:

 personally I think it's the fact of the matter that even with characters like Bernadetta and Lysithia, even other characters like Petra. Is the fact that unlike them. Flayn doesn't age. What I mean to say is she shows no maturing as a Woman.

I saw Petra and said "Dayum she fine" but then saw she was 15 and was really upset and surprised. But then she turned and I said Dayum again. For me it's the fact that she never appears older. You can be younger and still be more mentally matured then older people. I know personally, but that dosent mean Its okay to day a 13 when your 21 just cause there mentally older. 

As well as with characters like Now I and Nix.( While I personally don't like the paring) these two have the excuse of "Oh I'm really 10,000 years old." Or, "I'm actually mentally in my 50's." Flyan dosent get that really. Sure she mature but not physically. Im not even saying it's not good to like her. Just it's not my thing.

Petra is supposed to be 15 pre-timeskip?

Daaayum

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Looking back on my opening post and the replies I've gotten I will admit my tone was overly and unnecessarily defensive, especially for this community. In all honesty this was a post I had initially written up for Reddit and posted there simultaneously, and I wasn't aware if there was an overlap of users or opinion here. I'm not trying to push for people to have to like Flayn x Byleth, and my apologies if I came off as aggressive.

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There's nothing wrong with being passionate in a topic you like. Just as long as it's apparent that some people here. Myself included are pretty much fence sitters and don't hate or love the paring. I honestly didn't even know the paring was a problem until stumbling on the your post.

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Personally I am uncomfortable marrying any of the students not because of any age difference but because they are my students. But to each their own. I almost exclusively play female though XD so Flayn just isn’t and option regardless. Playing male in my current run just because I found out I can have my female Byleth inherit the male exclusive skills in new game + sooooo figured I’d get that done with asap

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Have never posted on this website ever, and I only came across this post on my Google phone Dashboard. Read this all and decided to give my two cents. I don't know why people are getting riled up and toxic over this guy expressing his opinion. 

Honestly OP I'm indifferent to Byleth and Flayn as a pairing, but I really respect you for sticking with your opinion and love for such a relatively unsupported ship. I say so because I know the struggle of liking an obscure ship in FE compared to others because of how little content and like minded thinking we get. Consternations some people may have aside, I hope you find like-minded people and can find satisfaction somehow in what little fics exist or in a formulated headcanon story (how I had to cope during FE awakening lol). Don't get too dismayed by people who attack you for it!

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Well this conversation took a turn

I haven’t explored it but ending pairings are my most unexplored supports

Edited by kamineko

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So here is the thing, I get where this poster is coming from to a degree, especially when it comes to fandoms. It's easy to lump what you see on Reddit and Facebook into being how all fans are going to react to something when it was really bad. This forum is probably the best moderated forum that I've been on recently with the least instances of favoritism and BS. What happens on Reddit doesn't even make sense, yo. I got attacked for liking Princess Peach because someone said, and I quote, "she's a child". 

Peach is a grown woman, like clearly. This is just my way of saying "people are crazy". 

I will say this, I don't even think Flayn looks that young. She's short and petit, but her face is very much more mature than her size would suggest. The thing that makes her look young is the hair and I suspect that's on purpose to cast of suspicion. Someone drew Flayn with short hair and it makes her look totally different. 

And I do actually have a ship for Flayn that I write/am writing. It's Flayn and Dedue. 

Edited by Quillmonger

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10 hours ago, NolanBaumgartner said:
11 hours ago, Matthew's apprentice said:

 

Petra is supposed to be 15 pre-timeskip?

Daaayum

Shes 16 preskip. But yeah. I tend to like the older students/faculty myself. Hubert is like 20 when the game starts. Mercedes is 23 when the game starts. Ferdinand is about 19 etc. While i have romanced Edelgard and Claude on their respective routes, I vastly prefer other characters (despite me liking Byleth/Edelgard a lot). There are definitely characters i feel weird about romancing tho. 

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4 hours ago, Jaym-E said:

Have never posted on this website ever, and I only came across this post on my Google phone Dashboard. Read this all and decided to give my two cents. I don't know why people are getting riled up and toxic over this guy expressing his opinion.

It's not the opinion itself - it's how that opinion is expressed.  "I don't like cilantro" is perfectly fine.  "Any recipe that uses cilantro is trash" is not.  There's lots of ways to say something, and had the opening post merely talked about OP's thoughts on the pairing without the wild assumptions, I would've said my piece and left.

20 minutes ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Shes 16 preskip. But yeah. I tend to like the older students/faculty myself. Hubert is like 20 when the game starts. Mercedes is 23 when the game starts. Ferdinand is about 19 etc. While i have romanced Edelgard and Claude on their respective routes, I vastly prefer other characters (despite me liking Byleth/Edelgard a lot). There are definitely characters i feel weird about romancing tho. 

That weird feeling for me is the entire student body.  Though I also get it with Alois, Gilbert, and Rhea for different reasons.  Alois because he's married, Gilbert because his kid is one of my students, and Rhea because something about her rubs me the wrong way.

Flayn is unfortunate enough to be a student, so her ending will stay blank on my game.

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I romanced Rhea in a run just to see what would happen. The ending there is cool, but i do agree that actually romancing her is awkward for a multitude of spoilery reasons. Gilbert is... an unreliable sack of offal for running out on his family not my favorite lmao. Especially since Azure Moon is not my favorite route. 

 

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Like the earlier poster inn new to this site and only came across it through Google on my phone. Wanted to post though.

 

OP I get your fear of being attacked, in some places on the internet in this particular fandom expressing your ships is met with extreme vitriol and hatred. I've experienced it because I ship a lot of pairings that are deemed "gross" especially in the US. My favorite player support in Awakening was a tie between Nowi and Severa. In Fates it was Elise. In 3H I like Sothis and Lysithea the most. They associate a fictional game with real life so Nowi look young therefore it bad. Flayn look young therefore it bad. We need to remember its just a game. It is not real life and the people who ship these types of pairings are possibly completely normal everyday people. In life I'm married to a 24 year old who is extremely innocent because she lived a sheltered life and she's the sweetest kindest person I know. Because I've airways gravitated towards personalities over looks I find myself pesonally more intrested in characters with that type of personality in games. Those characters are usually the younger type characters. So we should try to understand that this is simply a game. Its not real life. Go after whoever you like and don't listen to the haters.

 

That said OP I gotta say you asked a question you had to expect an answer. The posters here were extremely respectful and polite in their answers for the most part while trying to give you the answer to your question. You can't be so defensive of your pairing when your presumably asking a question looking for answers. The answer is simple Flayn is child like even if she's not a child. The culture we were raised in makes that a bad thing. My wife has anxiety in public but holding this little bear in public makes her feel safe. I can't tell you the looks and words hurled at both of us for that. 

I romance every character in every game. Haven't done Flayn yet so I can't give you my overall impression but know this OP others support the same pairings or similar ones. Your not alone. Just don't get so defensive okay.

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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

It's not the opinion itself - it's how that opinion is expressed.  "I don't like cilantro" is perfectly fine.  "Any recipe that uses cilantro is trash" is not.  There's lots of ways to say something, and had the opening post merely talked about OP's thoughts on the pairing without the wild assumptions, I would've said my piece and left.

That weird feeling for me is the entire student body.  Though I also get it with Alois, Gilbert, and Rhea for different reasons.  Alois because he's married, Gilbert because his kid is one of my students, and Rhea because something about her rubs me the wrong way.

Flayn is unfortunate enough to be a student, so her ending will stay blank on my game.

Alois and Gilbert are platonic you never marry them

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Is it bad that I don't think trashing cilantro recipes is flaming? The cilantro doesn't have feelings.

The moral of the story is that you can't make other people like your waifu as much as you do, and you probably shouldn't jump into a different group of people expecting them to hold the same views and opinions of the previous group while still seeking validation.

It's kind of weird.

 

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9 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Is it bad that I don't think trashing cilantro recipes is flaming? The cilantro doesn't have feelings.

The moral of the story is that you can't make other people like your waifu as much as you do, and you probably shouldn't jump into a different group of people expecting them to hold the same views and opinions of the previous group while still seeking validation.

It's kind of weird.

 

Not to mention that, instead of saying "No one else likes Flayn!", he could be saying "I don't have to share Flayn with anyone! I get her all to myself!"

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9 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Shes 16 preskip. But yeah. I tend to like the older students/faculty myself. Hubert is like 20 when the game starts. Mercedes is 23 when the game starts. Ferdinand is about 19 etc. While i have romanced Edelgard and Claude on their respective routes, I vastly prefer other characters (despite me liking Byleth/Edelgard a lot). There are definitely characters i feel weird about romancing tho. 

She's 15 at the start. Might turn 16 before timeskip though.

She carries herself a lot older than Lys so she doesn't feel as weird as partner post skip imo. I prefer the older characters as well but can make exceptions for some students. Lys, Cyril and Flayn are out of the question for me though.

20200229_214111~2.jpg

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4 hours ago, Crysta said:

Is it bad that I don't think trashing cilantro recipes is flaming? The cilantro doesn't have feelings.

The moral of the story is that you can't make other people like your waifu as much as you do, and you probably shouldn't jump into a different group of people expecting them to hold the same views and opinions of the previous group while still seeking validation.

It's kind of weird.

I could always comment on the people who think it's edible.

More like, lurk and research before making a post.  Two different communities will have different styles, and trying to mix them usually ends badly.  In general, researching and observing before doing things is a good idea.

58 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

She's 15 at the start. Might turn 16 before timeskip though.

She carries herself a lot older than Lys so she doesn't feel as weird as partner post skip imo. I prefer the older characters as well but can make exceptions for some students. Lys, Cyril and Flayn are out of the question for me though.

If a character has a birthday, his/her age will change accordingly.  Unless you're Flayn.

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