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Just did SS NG++ Mad, now I want to do GD NG Mad


Lief
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So yesterday I was finally able to beat the final map of maddening SS in my second try. In that run I went all pay2win with the renown I got, leveling weapon ranks and authority, and recruiting all the Golden Deer students though I only used Leonie, Lysithea, Ignatz, and Marianne.

Now I want to do a run on NG Golden Deer Maddening, and I'm looking for any input on my team for this run. Also, I plan on wasting Dancer to give sword avoid +20 to a dodgetank.

Currently I'm dead set on:

Deathblow Barbarossa Claude

I plan to have maybe 2 or 3 fliers, with Claude being one of them. Unfortunately he can't get darting blow, so I plan to rig a substitute by giving him Speed +2 from Myrmidon and a speed ring. Of course this means he won't be able to dodge tank, but he'll be doing good damage between deathblow and natural Bowfaire. With his high authority I plan to make him use Cichol Wyvern Co, and give Immortal Corps to my dodgetank flier.

Deathblow Sniper Ignatz

One of my best units in my SS NG+ Mad run. In that run he didn't have deathblow, but hit+20 from my GD Hard run, and he had to grin to S+ bows for the second Bowfaire.

Deathblow War Master Raphael

Probably his only good path, not much to be said here.

Gremory Lysithea

The long range magic nuke. Maddening enemies are actually so strong at the end that she can't oneshot unless it's a mounted unit. Having two warp uses is good but I'm wondering if I should make her a dark knight instead for the extra damage.

Dark Knight or Frozen Lance Paladin Lorenz

On Gamefaqs I read about a build for Lorenz that puts him through mage for fiendish blow, then into Paladin for lancefaire, then have him spam Frozen Lance. He will be the Golden Deer's offensive paladin like Ferdinand and Sylvain, both of whom were very fun to use with swiftstrike, only with frozen lance instead.

I'm wavering on:

Sniper, Wyvern Lord, or Falcon Knight Hilda

Now this one I'm really torn on. Hilda has noticeable problems with accuracy and durability, while having good strength and surprisingly good speed as well. Going fully with bows will get her hit+20, which she badly needs. FK will give her a more accurate weapon, and she can probably become a dodgetank. With WL she can use her relic and have deathblow, but won't double. Honestly this wavering can be solved by mastering two intermediate classes, but I'm not quire sure how to pull that off.

Dark Knight or Mortal Savant Marianne

I tried out holy knight Marianne in SS Mad, and it sucked. That same run I switched her to Mortal Savant to spam Swordfaire boosted Soulblade, after trying out the weapon art in holy knight to oneshot armors. It did a good amount of damage, but Mari really can't take any physical hits. Dark Knight gives her more move than MS but uses lances instead, so she can use frozen lance. However it won't be boosted by lancefaire, and gets its bonus from dex rather than Marianne's sky high resistance. I'm really worried about Marianne's speed, as HK Mari was so slow she couldn't even double armor knights.

Bow Knight, Wyvern Lord, or Falcon Knight Leonie

With Falcon Knight she can become a dodgetank, and her defense and personal means she can eat hits better than Hilda. She will also be able to reliably double with darting blow. As Bow Knight she will do good damage with Point-Blank Volley, but during the advance class period she will struggle to do good damage with bows without deathblow or bowfaire, she'll likely be a paladin as well to build up her riding rank. Her higher dex means she can also be a more accurate wyvern lord than Hilda, with slightly lower strength but slightly higher speed and defense, but also no relic.

Deathblow Enlightened One, Assassin, or Swordmaster Byleth

Enlightened One is free with no requirements, and has swordfaire, which leads to a strong windsweep. Assassin I found to be surprisingly good at forming walls, as they can block the enemy's path while forcing them to attack  the tankier unit next to them. Swordmaster comes with sword crit +10, which can stack with the A+ sword rank one. It also has more optimal growths, but suffers from the 5 movement, so I'll have to use the move boost item from Catherine's paralogue.

For cross-class recruits I'm going with Bishop Linhardt for warp and healing, if I go female byleth I can get Sylvain for free to spam deathblow swiftstrikes as a paladin. Might also recruit Felix for more muscle, and use Catherine as a falcon knight.

Please feel free to critique my class choices and give me advice, especially on mastering two intermediate classes. Thanks! And sorry for the little essay I wrote here on Fire Emblem unit building haha

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1 hour ago, Lief said:

So yesterday I was finally able to beat the final map of maddening SS in my second try. In that run I went all pay2win with the renown I got, leveling weapon ranks and authority, and recruiting all the Golden Deer students though I only used Leonie, Lysithea, Ignatz, and Marianne.

Now I want to do a run on NG Golden Deer Maddening, and I'm looking for any input on my team for this run. Also, I plan on wasting Dancer to give sword avoid +20 to a dodgetank.

Currently I'm dead set on:

Deathblow Barbarossa Claude

I plan to have maybe 2 or 3 fliers, with Claude being one of them. Unfortunately he can't get darting blow, so I plan to rig a substitute by giving him Speed +2 from Myrmidon and a speed ring. Of course this means he won't be able to dodge tank, but he'll be doing good damage between deathblow and natural Bowfaire. With his high authority I plan to make him use Cichol Wyvern Co, and give Immortal Corps to my dodgetank flier.

Deathblow Sniper Ignatz

One of my best units in my SS NG+ Mad run. In that run he didn't have deathblow, but hit+20 from my GD Hard run, and he had to grin to S+ bows for the second Bowfaire.

Deathblow War Master Raphael

Probably his only good path, not much to be said here.

Gremory Lysithea

The long range magic nuke. Maddening enemies are actually so strong at the end that she can't oneshot unless it's a mounted unit. Having two warp uses is good but I'm wondering if I should make her a dark knight instead for the extra damage.

Dark Knight or Frozen Lance Paladin Lorenz

On Gamefaqs I read about a build for Lorenz that puts him through mage for fiendish blow, then into Paladin for lancefaire, then have him spam Frozen Lance. He will be the Golden Deer's offensive paladin like Ferdinand and Sylvain, both of whom were very fun to use with swiftstrike, only with frozen lance instead.

I'm wavering on:

Sniper, Wyvern Lord, or Falcon Knight Hilda

Now this one I'm really torn on. Hilda has noticeable problems with accuracy and durability, while having good strength and surprisingly good speed as well. Going fully with bows will get her hit+20, which she badly needs. FK will give her a more accurate weapon, and she can probably become a dodgetank. With WL she can use her relic and have deathblow, but won't double. Honestly this wavering can be solved by mastering two intermediate classes, but I'm not quire sure how to pull that off.

Dark Knight or Mortal Savant Marianne

I tried out holy knight Marianne in SS Mad, and it sucked. That same run I switched her to Mortal Savant to spam Swordfaire boosted Soulblade, after trying out the weapon art in holy knight to oneshot armors. It did a good amount of damage, but Mari really can't take any physical hits. Dark Knight gives her more move than MS but uses lances instead, so she can use frozen lance. However it won't be boosted by lancefaire, and gets its bonus from dex rather than Marianne's sky high resistance. I'm really worried about Marianne's speed, as HK Mari was so slow she couldn't even double armor knights.

Bow Knight, Wyvern Lord, or Falcon Knight Leonie

With Falcon Knight she can become a dodgetank, and her defense and personal means she can eat hits better than Hilda. She will also be able to reliably double with darting blow. As Bow Knight she will do good damage with Point-Blank Volley, but during the advance class period she will struggle to do good damage with bows without deathblow or bowfaire, she'll likely be a paladin as well to build up her riding rank. Her higher dex means she can also be a more accurate wyvern lord than Hilda, with slightly lower strength but slightly higher speed and defense, but also no relic.

Deathblow Enlightened One, Assassin, or Swordmaster Byleth

Enlightened One is free with no requirements, and has swordfaire, which leads to a strong windsweep. Assassin I found to be surprisingly good at forming walls, as they can block the enemy's path while forcing them to attack  the tankier unit next to them. Swordmaster comes with sword crit +10, which can stack with the A+ sword rank one. It also has more optimal growths, but suffers from the 5 movement, so I'll have to use the move boost item from Catherine's paralogue.

For cross-class recruits I'm going with Bishop Linhardt for warp and healing, if I go female byleth I can get Sylvain for free to spam deathblow swiftstrikes as a paladin. Might also recruit Felix for more muscle, and use Catherine as a falcon knight.

Please feel free to critique my class choices and give me advice, especially on mastering two intermediate classes. Thanks! And sorry for the little essay I wrote here on Fire Emblem unit building haha

That list is fine for completing NG VW, but if you're asking for more optimal advice:

Go fighter for +2 strength on Claude, grab -3 weight from heavy armor asap and certify for armored knight for the 12 defense, switch immediately (next week) to brigand. That basically holds true for every physical unit, Hilda especially likes this as her seal speed budding talent is useful throughout the game, but especially early game.

If you're doing no grind (quests for merchants and paralogues aside), Ignatz's usefulness is gonna be determined by his dice rolls on strength. If he falls behind early just bench him because he will start to struggle to chip for more than a couple damage even with steels. In that scenario just grab a chapter 6 or 7 Shamir and forget about him (Claude and Byleth can save him and Lorenz in chapter 13. Put the flying impregnable wall battalion on Hilda or Leonie and you can just sit them in a corner against the wall they start at and hit them with the gambit for 5 turns until your other units clean the middle of the map up).

WM is exceptional on units like M-Byleth, Felix who have good speed alongside strength and luck/Dex growth, Raphael only wants to get quick riposte from it to avoid being doubled on EP and then switch back to grappler for FIF. His early levels are also huge for him. Balthus is a better version of him if you need to replace him/have the DLC, or you can grab Felix, slap killer knucks on him with aegis shield and one round everything in WM. Toss on a high avoidance battalion and Felix will be dodging left and right, while eating hits with consistent aegis/pavise procs otherwise.

I recommend Valk or DK Lysithea over Gremory. +1 move along with +1 range or tomefaire (though it is only like a 2 mt difference magic bases considered) are better than double spell casts, that's before even considering canto which she loves with thyrsus to get in, pick, and canto back out.

I never use Lorenz, but if I did it would probably be utilizing his lance gimmick. Paladin in that case for the terrain resistance would probably be my pick. Maybe let him grow in lock or DK a bit for his magic, though.

Get weight -3/seal speed/12 def on Hilda at 10, switch to brigand for death blow, switch to peg for darting>go into rider, and then Lord. WLord is just superior for all female axe users. Her authority bane is the issue, so you can run her in warrior if needed until you can use a good +hit flying battalion for one of the many grounded options. Maybe let her hold the March ring until she is a WLord along with an accuracy ring for switch. Smash is a relevant art for her throughout the playthrough, though. Once she gets B authority and her relic + Wlord, she will one of your best units, only topped by probably Claude and Byleth.

Gremory Marianne is my preference for 2x spells (physic, silence) and the extra move over bishop. Her mag gets high enough by ~chapter 14-15 to top off units with a healing staff, and she can nuke with blutgang's combat art when needed.

Bow Knight Leonie with PBV/Brave Bow or Inexhaustible for range is really good, but if you want a dodge tank from this list, she is your best option. Falco Knight Lances in that case with the usual setup (as+, evasion ring, defiant avoid, etc). Don't bother with death blow if you do, she has enemy phase options that are better for parking her in the middle of a mob.

As far as recruits go, Felix is a good addition to the GD roster. BK or WM/aegis are both excellent A+ tier units.

Get Catherine to C+ support with the random flowers you get in the garden (check for C+ on the dining options, you don't need to go all the way to B) to recruit her as a lvl 9 Byleth in chapter 4 as a lvl 7 sword master base, or 9 in chapter 5. Needless to say, get her dblow and grab darting if you can, and she becomes a monster doing this basically every time. Falco Knight or assassin. On my VW NG file right now, she is an assassin with like 43 speed (before darting) and 35 strength at chapter 19, level 35. I have basic alert stance on her along with prowess 5 and she doesn't get touched in terrain/one rounds everything. VW/AM Catherine recruited like this is on par with the lords and Byleth, imo.

Sylvain Paladin into DK is my guilty pleasure. It keeps him from using up a good flying battalion and gives him great defenses on both ends while one rounding with SS and grabbing +1 move. I throw Edmund Troops on him and SS anything with high accuracy. Gautier for avoidance with BM avoid is also an option for EP, and really strong with his defenses and an aegis on his back.

Lindhart is unfortunately completely outclassed by Hapi now. She provides a similar range physic/warp, while absolutely dumpstering him on spell list: Banshee to lock units in place, Swarm to drop speed by 5, Hades as a nuke button, Seraphim. She is Mire B away from being one of the most busted units, and probably the best utility unit (if she isn't already) in the game.

But, personally, I don't like using two physic users (her being an exception because she offers so much more) over just tossing Mercedes on the roster and handling all the healing you'd ever need. Stuff like The Immovable for example, where you would normally want to canto out and wait for a physic is trivialized by fortify. You just sit units on his platform and she heals everybody to full, usually 6-7 times because her crest frequently saves fortify uses. Marianne and Lindhart feel redundant with her, but Hapi as a secondary physic/warp with her spell list is probably the best combo on maddening. I'm not talking LTC strats, before someone comes in with that. I'm talking clearing maps, first NG runs perspective such as the OP. Please don't @me telling me how good warp is. I'm aware of what you can do with it.

As for the mastering two intermediate classes without using aux battles, just makesure you plan ahead on your units skill ranks. When a unit hits 10, they should be ready to go into their first one (brigand, for example). Then after they pick up dblow, switch them directly into, say, peg knight and get darting before switching to your advanced class. Delaying until 21-23 isn't a huge deal, the growth loss is negligible compared to the benefit of skill gain with stuff like that.

I'd add that fiendish blow, magic +2, dark knight Lysithea will still one round enemies lategame unless she gets rng screwed. In that case, using the magic boosters you get on her is never a bad idea and can patch that up, though I typically don't even use boosters now (have 24 speed carrots at chapter 19 on my current VW file, lol).

Edited by Relytive
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Oh, and you can make Byleth a flier on VW. It has a couple extra high rank flying battalions that other routes don't have, so he/she can comfortably use your Cichol Wyvern co., for example. Otherwise, assassin is my preference for grounded Byleth. 

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Ignatz as a dark knight will serve you well. I had played with this idea with Ignatz (golden deer hard) with good success. You are less likely to get a bad Ignatz as long you pick up Fiendish Blow. 

Monster physical defence tend to be higher than monster magical defence.

Strength + 2 is nice for all physical units. Speed + 2 is nice for all physical units. Magic + 2 is nice for all magical units.

 

Note 1: if you deal low/zero damage to a enemy unit, you can attack it to gain extra skill experiences.

Note 2: I generally avoid one hit knockout on one enemy unit, that way I build plenty of skill experiences.

Note 3: equip appropriate battalion to patch up unit x issue such as hit rate and physical damage

Note 4: try to use high endurance battalion for unit x (bare minimum battalion endurance for March post time skip is 60)

Edited by AC6
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14 minutes ago, Relytive said:

That list is fine for completing NG VW, but if you're asking for more optimal advice:

Go fighter for +2 strength on Claude, grab -3 weight from heavy armor asap and certify for armored knight for the 12 defense, switch immediately (next week) to brigand. That basically holds true for every physical unit, Hilda especially likes this as her seal speed budding talent is useful throughout the game, but especially early game.

If you're doing no grind (quests for merchants and paralogues aside), Ignatz's usefulness is gonna be determined by his dice rolls on strength. If he falls behind early just bench him because he will start to struggle to chip for more than a couple damage even with steels. In the scenario just grab a chapter 6 or 7 Shamir and forget about him 

WM is exceptional on units like M-Byleth, Felix who have good speed alongside strength and luck/DeX growth, Raphael only wants to get quick riposte from it and then switch back to grappler for FIF. His early levels are also huge for him. Balthus is a better version of him if you need to replace him/have the DLC, or you can grab Felix, slap killer knucks on him with aegis shield and one round everything in WM.

I recommend Valk or DK Lysithea over Gremory. +1 move along with +1 range or tomefaire (though it is only like a 2 mt difference magic bases considered) are better than double spell casts, that's before even considering canto which she loves with thyrsus to get in, pick, and canto back out.

I never use Lorenz, but if I did it would probably be utilizing his lance gimmick. Paladin in that case for the terrain resistance would probably be my pick.

Get weight -3/seal speed/12 def on Hilda at 10, switch to brigand for death blow, switch to peg for darting>go into rider, and then Lord. WLord is just superior for all female axe users. Her authority bane is the issue, so you can run her in warrior if needed until you can use a good +hit flying battalion for one of the many grounded options. Maybe let her hold the March ring until she is a WLord along with an accuracy ring for switch. Smash is a relevant art for her throughout the playthrough, though. Once she gets B authority and her relic + Wlord, she will one of your best units, only topped by probably Claude and Byleth.

Gremory Marianne is my preference for 2x spells (physic, silence) and the extra move over bishop. Her mag gets high enough by ~15 to top off units with a healing staff, and she can nuke with blutgang's combat art when needed.

Bow Knight Leonie with PBV/Brave Bow or Inexhaustible for range is really good, but if you want a dodge tank from this list, she is your best option. Falco Knight Lances in that case with the usual setup (as+, evasion ring, defiant avoid, etc). Don't bother with death blow if you do, she has enemy phase options that are better for parking her in the middle of a mob.

As far as recruits go, Felix is a good addition to the GD roster. BK or WM/aegis are both excellent A+ tier units. Get Catherine to C+ support with the random flowers you get in the garden (check for C+ on the dining options, you don't need to go all the way to B) to recruit her at lvl 9 in chapter 4 as a lvl 7 sword master base, or 9 in chapter 5. Needless to say, get her dblow and grab darting if you can, but she becomes a monster doing this basically every time. Falco Knight or assassin. On my VW NG file right now, she is an assassin with like 43 speed (before darting) and 35 strength. I have basic alert stance on her along with prowess 5 and she doesn't get touched in terrain/one rounds everything. VW/AM Catherine recruited like this is on par with the lords and Byleth, imo.

Sylvain Paladin into DK is my guilty pleasure. It keeps him from using up a good flying battalion and gives him great defenses on both end while one rounding with SS and grabbing +1 move. I throw Edmund Troops on him and SS anything with high accuracy. Gautier for avoidance with BM avoid is also an option for EP, and really strong with his defenses and an aegis on his back.

Lindhart is unfortunately completely outclassed by Hapi now. She provides a similar range physic/warp, while absolutely dumpstering him on spell list: Banshee to lock units in place, Swarm to drop speed by 5, Hades as a nuke button, Seraphim. She is Mire B away from being one of the most busted units, and probably the best utility unit if she isn't already in the game.

But personally, I don't like using two physic users (her being an exception because she offers so much more) over just tossing Mercedes on the roster and handling all the healing you'd ever need. Stuff like the immovable for example, where you would normally want to canto out and wait for a physic is trivialized by fortify. You just sit units on his platform and she heals everybody to full, usually 6-7 times because her crest frequently saves fortify used. Marianne and Lindhart feel redundant with her, but Hapi as a secondary physic/warp with her spell list is probably the best combo on maddening. I'm not talking LTC strats, before someone comes in with that. I'm talking clearing maps, first NG runs perspective such as the OP. Please don't @me telling me how good warp is. I'm aware of what you can do with it.

Thanks for the input!

Hmm, weight -3 does seem useful, it might lead to Claude doubling with steel bows. The progression path for Hilda will make her really strong but her hitrate will be the biggest problem. In SS I recruited her, and she had a ton of accuracy issues. Here I'll have to give her the accuracy ring, maybe an evasion ring as well though axe prowess doesn't give much avoid, so she can dodgetank and seal speed. Then again, if she doesn't hit in EP then she won't proc seal speed.  Actually, wouldn't weight-3 be redundant with darting blow for Hilda?

I already did WM and FK Byleth lol, they both did a lot of heavy lifting. I really don't like female Byleth's design but in Mad BL NG I found that having two good fliers will make Catherine's paralogue much easier. Two Peg Knights can straight away go for the bishop across the lake and stop the flying reinforcements from coming. I might do FK Byleth again, but four fliers seems too much, I'll probably go assassin or swordmaster for the stronger windsweep. Having them landlocked also means I can use model leader to train up battalions faster.

I wonder if I should give the dancer skills to Leonie? As a FK she'll need to build up sword rank anyway, and sword avoid will give her even more evasiveness, even if she doesn't use alert stance. I'm also slightly worried about her strength growth, as it's only five percent higher than Ingrid's 35% growth.

Wow, I didn't know Ignatz's strength growth is only 35%.....Makes his performance in my GD Hard playthrough even more impressive as he constantly got great levels, and he didn't even go brigand. I'm confident he'll still be good in this run, since he'll be going for deathblow. The bigger problem is that he needs to master Sniper for Hunter's volley.

I'm curious if War Master or Grappler is better for Raphael. Is WM that much slower for Raph?

I forgot about Silence on Marianne, but it seems useful. I know I appreciated it when I had to leave a strong enemy mage in range because my other units were too far away.

Thanks for the tips, especially with the weight-3 recommendation! Unfortunately I don't have the DLC, so there's no Hapi funtimes to be had for me. Linhardt, Sylvain, and Felix will be recruited. Felix will be a WM and for Sylvain.....why dark knight? He doesn't get lancefaire for his swiftstrikes right? I'll probably also recruit Ingrid for her paralogue and as an adjutant for either Sylv or Felix. Hmm...but she needs Byleth to get flying to recruit her. Maybe I'll go peg knight for darting blow and then stay as a sword user.

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Seal speed is useless in endgame maddening because enemies have only 2 type of speed - stupidly high and stupidly low.

Grappler Raphael is definitely better. Fierce Iron Fist ORKO way more consistently than a Warmaster double. Double fistfaire FIF is the one thing I can never give up in a maddening playthrough.

Edited by Wishblade
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5 hours ago, Lief said:

Deathblow War Master Raphael

Probably his only good path, not much to be said here.

If I'm being honest, I'd recommend using someone else, because Raphael is Little Mac's recovery levels of bad. I mean, I found he couldn't pull his weight on hard, and ultimately dropped him in chapter 7. Logic would dictate that if you're borderline useless on Hard, you're just useless on Maddening.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

If I'm being honest, I'd recommend using someone else, because Raphael is Little Mac's recovery levels of bad. I mean, I found he couldn't pull his weight on hard, and ultimately dropped him in chapter 7. Logic would dictate that if you're borderline useless on Hard, you're just useless on Maddening.

no it does not, people have told you countless time already.

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Just now, AxelVDP said:

no it does not, people have told you countless time already.

Okay, wise guy, tell me what Raphael is good for BESIDES Rally Strength. Because that’s about the only thing I can think of in his favor.

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22 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Okay, wise guy, tell me what Raphael is good for BESIDES Rally Strength. Because that’s about the only thing I can think of in his favor.

Would you listen if it was said?  Or would you continue to argue that you're right?  Because it's not worth anyone's time if all you're going to do is put your fingers in your ears and ignore the other person in favor of your personal biases.

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Well I've just did the Lonato chapter, and it was a doozy. The biggest challenge was finding the right positions to put my units in early on. You're basically assaulted from the forest in the south, the mercenaries in the middle and left, and the one other battalion-equipped merc from the north. I ended up inching forward slowly while the ally units kill the south forest merc and archer, before advancing. The fog mage was also tough since he's in a thicket. After Claude missed his gambit at 70% hit against him, I had Leonie tempest lance the mage and Lysithea finished him off with Luna.

 

Currently in my team, Lysithea is probably the least useful unit thus far. Her hitrates on spells are bad with the exception of miasma, fortunately she has learned heal.

Leonie is the MVP thus far, with her personal and tempest lance doing a huge amount of damage with a steel lance.

Lorenz has also been useful with tempest lance, though he gets doubled more. He learned fire just in time, and can now contribute to magic damage.

Raphael suuuucks with gauntlets, they do like 1 damage. At least he has good defense, though he's been getting the worst levels so far. Also I'm incredibly surprised at how low his bases are, slower than Hilda while not being significantly more bulky. Hilda has been getting the best growths so far, and already has seal speed.

Claude and Ignatz do good chip damage with steel bows, though Claude also has Byleth-level strength and the most reliable gambit hitrates. I'm not looking forward to all the birthday tea parties Byleth needs to do again in order to get good charm.

Speaking of Byleth, I chickened out of fbyleth at the last minute and went with mbyleth instead. Apologies to the people that wanted falcoleth 🙏. He's mostly been using swords, but is at E+ axes right now.

This means Sylvain will be harder to recruit early for deathblow, or I can replace him with Catherine instead, as I only have room for three non golden deer + byleth units in my regular team. The GD final map allows 12 units right? Felix is still in the plan, he has a c support with Byleth and contributed in the Lonato chapter.

On 3/4/2020 at 6:41 PM, Wishblade said:

Seal speed is useless in endgame maddening because enemies have only 2 type of speed - stupidly high and stupidly low.

Grappler Raphael is definitely better. Fierce Iron Fist ORKO way more consistently than a Warmaster double. Double fistfaire FIF is the one thing I can never give up in a maddening playthrough.

Yeah seal speed definitely won't help to power down falcons and assassins haha. I'll probably change it out when enemy AS gets too high. TBH this is my first time using seal speed in this game.

Now that I think of it, FIF hits three times, and all three hits are boosted by deathblow + firstfaire. Sounds better than war master strike, which was a huge disappointment for me.

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1 hour ago, Lief said:

The GD final map allows 12 units right?

Yes.

On 3/4/2020 at 5:41 AM, Wishblade said:

Seal speed is useless in endgame maddening because enemies have only 2 type of speed - stupidly high and stupidly low.

The real issue with Seal Speed (and for that matter, seal skills in general in this game) is that it has no value if applied on enemy phase, because it wears off afterwards. Well, that, and the fact that Commander nullifies debuffs.

1 hour ago, Lief said:

I'm not looking forward to all the birthday tea parties Byleth needs to do again in order to get good charm.

Better use a guide for that.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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Well I've just reached the Remire chapter. At this point I've recruited Felix and Catherine in chapter 6 and Sylvain in chapter 8, I've started building flying on Byleth for Ingrid as well. Relytive's suggestion of giving Claude and Hilda weight - 3 has been helpful, especially to Claude. Hilda didn't need to dip into Armor Knight for the defense boost, as she naturally reached the base value by the time she was level 10. Claude meanwhile gained 4 defense and makes for a good frontliner with close counter.

 

Updating on the status of my team, literally everyone physical is in Brigand, while every Mari, Lys, and Lorenz are in Mage. So far, the only students that got bad growths were Raphael (he got bad growths in my GD Hard run too), Lorenz, and Lysithea surprisingly. Lys has redeemed herself with better growths after the Miklan Chapter, and she learned Seraphim on the same map while also critting monster miklan twice with it. I also got her Thrysus before the Battle of the Eagle and Lion. Lorenz is simply too average, though he's also been getting better growths. He still pulls his weight thanks to high accuracy frozen lance, and he can do adequate magic chip, especially with Sagittae. Raphael is hands down the worst so far, with his only high stats being HP, Strength, and Defense. So far he's only useful as a physical tank, but he'll have a much harder time once enemies get faire skills. He'll probably get better once he master Brigand and goes grappler.

Ignatz has been doing well. Currently he has 15 strength, enough to oneshot the pegasus knights in Lorenz's paralogue with Steel Bow+ and a combat art. He's probably the reason I was able to beat that map on the month it's available. Lately though he's been neglecting strength for....uh....everything else, but mostly speed which will be useless after timeskip. Hilda and Leonie both have C ranks in Lances and Axes, and have can reclass to peg knight if I need wings. I'm still torn between making them go Falcon or Wyvern Lord though

Felix has become a mainstay of my team. He has amazing offense as a brigand, though he also has bad defense and authority. He also reclassed to thief for Battle of E and L, and he was juuuuust fast enough to steal Edelgard and Dimitri's rings. I plan to make him a grappler but he still has a long way to A brawling level. Catherine is a pegasus knight currently for darting blow, I plan to put her into assassin after that, or maybe I can keep her as a Swordmaster first.

On 3/4/2020 at 6:41 PM, Wishblade said:

Seal speed is useless in endgame maddening because enemies have only 2 type of speed - stupidly high and stupidly low.

Yeah I'll definitely take it off Hilda once she gets better skills. I might also take off weight-3 once she gets darting blow. Or is it better to use it in conjunction with Darting?

On 3/5/2020 at 1:55 AM, Shadow Mir said:

Okay, wise guy, tell me what Raphael is good for BESIDES Rally Strength. Because that’s about the only thing I can think of in his favor.

Rally Strength is so useful it's partly the reason he's bad for me, cuz he's the lowest level in my team haha.

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Minus 3 weight is strong for Hilda (minus 5 weight is very strong, however this require real planning).

Raphael should become a war master (via fortress knight), remember to pick up death blow for Raphael. Raphael is a physical tank (despite Raphael very poor speed growth) when you equip a good shield. Pavise (from fortress knight) is a nice pick up for Raphael.

Unless you set a specific challenge run, dropping house units is a sign of relative weak fire emblem player.

I did warn you about bad Ignatz if you ignore dark knight line. You had picked bow knight line for Ignatz. I suggest picking up death blow for Ignatz and use battalions to boast Ignatz physical damage.

 

 

 

Edited by AC6
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1 hour ago, AC6 said:

Unless you set a specific challenge run, dropping house units is a sign of relative weak fire emblem player.

That's bull. Why would I stick with a house unit who clearly isn't pulling their goddamn weight???

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12 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

That's bull. Why would I stick with a house unit who clearly isn't pulling their goddamn weight???

While I disagree with you on Raphael's general utility (he's low-tier in a game where anyone can be good; easy access to Rally Strength, Death Blow, Grappler class all help him), this

13 hours ago, AC6 said:

Unless you set a specific challenge run, dropping house units is a sign of relative weak fire emblem player.

Is a pretty silly thimg to say. Sometimes units don't pan out as intended, or superior alternatives come along. Hell, there's an argument that continuing to use a bad unit, while a better option sits on the bench, is actually what makes a weak Fire Emblem player. Not that I believe in judging how others play the game, of course.

If Raphael's not doing much for you, it's fine to bench him - or have him keep helping out as a guard adjutant. Chapter 13 might be harder, but (as he's one of the later joiners) not to the same degree that it will be having a bad, say, Ignatz or Lorenz. Speaking of which, Ignatz might actually enjoy the Magic Bow, to damage high-defense units from afar in bow-wielding classes (mine did). As for Lorenz, I previously took him down the Dark Mage / Dark Bishop path, but Frozen Lancefaire Paladin sounds more fun.

Good luck!

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

While I disagree with you on Raphael's general utility (he's low-tier in a game where anyone can be good; easy access to Rally Strength, Death Blow, Grappler class all help him), this

Is a pretty silly thimg to say. Sometimes units don't pan out as intended, or superior alternatives come along. Hell, there's an argument that continuing to use a bad unit, while a better option sits on the bench, is actually what makes a weak Fire Emblem player. Not that I believe in judging how others play the game, of course.

If Raphael's not doing much for you, it's fine to bench him - or have him keep helping out as a guard adjutant. Chapter 13 might be harder, but (as he's one of the later joiners) not to the same degree that it will be having a bad, say, Ignatz or Lorenz. Speaking of which, Ignatz might actually enjoy the Magic Bow, to damage high-defense units from afar in bow-wielding classes (mine did). As for Lorenz, I previously took him down the Dark Mage / Dark Bishop path, but Frozen Lancefaire Paladin sounds more fun.

Good luck!

Thanks!

I looked at Grappler's bases, and it gives Raph like a 4 to 5 point increase in dex and speed, so that'll fix his low accuracy. Though tbh, the main reason I have to keep raph would be for his C+ authority level, though Felix and Cath have D at this point (or was it E+ for Felix? I'll check later).

Speaking of Catherine, she is sooooo good so far. In Remire she rescued the three villagers in the bottom right, the first time I ever did it on Maddening. She's not near close to getting darting blow though...I want to use her more but I'll have to probably put one unit in my team on rotation with her, as most of the game I can only bring 10 units into battle.

And yeah, even with average ass stats Lorenz is still able to contribute with frozen steel lance, the biggest problem for him right now is his 4 move. Of all the things that TH kept from Echoes, they had to bring back the low movement mages? Though to be fair that also helps with the fast-ass enemy mages with 21 AS. With Paladin he gets double the movement, Lancefaire AND Fiendish blow will also help him. However I might dip him into warlock to increase his magic base, I just need to train his mag from C to A lol, at least he's almost done with the Paladin requirements.

Also, I think Hilda will stick with Wyvern for sure, cuz I'm too lazy to raise that sword rank for falcon. Leonie will be my dedicated dodge tank as a Falcon, but I'm also thinking of having her dip into Wyvern Rider for the strength boost, she only has 16 strength at the moment. This does require B axes though, which might take time away from getting A lances and C swords.

15 hours ago, AC6 said:

I did warn you about bad Ignatz if you ignore dark knight line. You had picked bow knight line for Ignatz. I suggest picking up death blow for Ignatz and use battalions to boast Ignatz physical damage.

Yeah.....I'm not doing dark knight Ignatz, and deathblow Sniper Ignatz is my plan for him because of hunter's volley. The only bow knight I've ever used in maddening was Leonie in Silver Snow, for the high move and boost to point-blank volley. Meanwhile, Sniper Ashe and Shamir were amazing in my BL maddening run, and Sniper Ignatz was also very important in SIlver Snow NG++, and that was without deathblow.

 

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14 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

While I disagree with you on Raphael's general utility (he's low-tier in a game where anyone can be good; easy access to Rally Strength, Death Blow, Grappler class all help him), this

Is a pretty silly thimg to say. Sometimes units don't pan out as intended, or superior alternatives come along. Hell, there's an argument that continuing to use a bad unit, while a better option sits on the bench, is actually what makes a weak Fire Emblem player. Not that I believe in judging how others play the game, of course.

If Raphael's not doing much for you, it's fine to bench him - or have him keep helping out as a guard adjutant. Chapter 13 might be harder, but (as he's one of the later joiners) not to the same degree that it will be having a bad, say, Ignatz or Lorenz. Speaking of which, Ignatz might actually enjoy the Magic Bow, to damage high-defense units from afar in bow-wielding classes (mine did). As for Lorenz, I previously took him down the Dark Mage / Dark Bishop path, but Frozen Lancefaire Paladin sounds more fun.

Good luck!

That's exactly why I called the guy I quoted out - these games being what they are, even the units often considered better might end up not panning out. That being said, getting Raphael to a point where he can be considered decent in combat, let alone good is like trying to get blood out of a stone. And I'm not sure the payoff is worth it. Admittedly, I think favoritism cannot salvage everyone (which puts me into conflict with those people who think everyone's usable or those who think anyone can be good). Look at Binding Blade's Gwendolyn. The effort needed to get her to a usable state is nothing short of absurd. On normal mode. And it's not like she makes up for it.

On 3/12/2020 at 7:09 AM, AC6 said:

Minus 3 weight is strong for Hilda (minus 5 weight is very strong, however this require real planning).

To be frank, Weight -5 is too much work for too little profit relative to Weight -3. Getting to C from E takes 300 skill experience. Going from there to A+ takes 1460 experience in heavy armour - almost 5 times what you need to go from E to C. All that for a mere two extra AS. Yeah, no. Weight -5 is not that great for how much effort it takes to get it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Been a long time! I've reached the second to last chapter in this run, and since I'm so close to the end I decided to write down my final impressions on my team!

Assassin Byleth

Fast and strong, he's my main sword user, and can EP axe-wielding enemies. I love how assassin gave tons of dex and speed, enough for him to double enemies while having speed+2. He didn't even need a speed ring most of the time, and I instead gave him an evasion ring instead. Having a strong windsweep was also very valuable, helping to take down the Death Knight to killing range with dark spikes. Overall had a great performance, though I also gave him two energy drops and the boots, to ensure his consistency.

Barbarossa Claude

Also fast and strong, though not as fast as Byleth. He and Byleth are both the main gambit cannons with their high charm, doesn't double as many enemies though, but he can kill with a brave bow. Unlike Byleth he doesn't have any Enemy Phase use.

Sniper Ignatz

I dumped five of the one point strength stat boosters on him, as it's not like anyone else needs it. I like how he doesn't need to master Archer for Hit+20, as it makes even long-range attacks very accurate while also letting him master Sniper before the chapter 12 battle. I did the same Brigand->Sniper build with Ashe, but Ignatz has much better hitrates. The main pegasus killer, but can also kill fast but fragile enemies like Assassins and Swordmasters.

Falcon Leonie and Wyvern Hilda

The two queens of the sky! Leonie is the main EP dodge tank, but Hilda can also fill this role. In the earlygame, Leonie was my lifesaver, at least until every other student became more reliable, and Hilda got good early growths. Leonie is a Falcon for lancefaire and lance prowess 5, and swordbreaker lets her double sword users on player phase with guaranteed dodging. I found that Hilda had trouble doubling, and at one point had ten less speed than Leonie. Be sure to give speed boosters to Hilda if she's a darting blow user. She also has noticeable accuracy problems. Now Hilda does double consistently, for better damage than Leonie as well. As for battalions, Leonie is rocking Immortal Corps, and while Hilda can use Galatea Pegasus Corps, Alliance Wyvern Co has proven to be extremely useful thanks to Impregnable Wall, while also giving 10 avoid.

Grappler Raphael

He can easily go for warmaster, but Fierce Iron Fist is soooooo good for Raphael. He never quads, so FIF is his main method of ORKOing enemies. While he's durable with Seiros Shield, I did not give him the Alliance +8 defense battalion, as it does not give a lot of hit, and Raphael suffers from low hitrates. I gave him Goneril Valks instead. With fistfaire and deathblow he's a reliable killer in my team.

Dancer Marianne

This is the first run I've used Dancer as a class since my very first playthrough of the game on CF, and Marianne has been very, very useful. I can have Byleth do two windseeps, or have Lysithea use two Seraphims to instant-break two monster shields. I can even help my infantry units to catch up to the mounted fliers and Lorenz. Even without Gremory's magic boost, Marianne is still able to do good magic chip with Fiendish blow, and can still heal good amounts of health with a heal staff. I do not regret making Marianne my dancer at all, and I'll probably incorporate this class in my future runs.

Gremory Lysithea

Oneshots enemy mages with Luna. Oneshot breaks monster shields with Seraphim. Does not quite oneshot the Death Knight, but Windsweep Byleth solves that problem. Two warp uses. Godlike range with Thyrsus and Dark Magic Range+1. She's literally the key to beating GD maddening NG. 12/10 unit will use again.

Dark Knight Lorenz

Maybe it's because he didn't get enough magic level ups, but Frozen Lance Paladin Lorenz turned out to be a bit of a disappointment. The only enemies he oneshot were intermediate class enemies after the timeskip. I ended up making him a Warlock, then easily shifted into Dark Knight. He's much more useful now, as a mobile mage. He can deal big damage from range, heal units, and keep up with my fliers. He's also been getting lots of magic level ups, while frozen lance remains a powerful attack.

War Master Felix

I once tried to have him pass the war master exam at less than 30%, since I was mad that Leonie won't pass her 88% Falcon exam. Lo and behold, Felix passed and became a WM. Like Raphael, he also suffered from low hitrates for some reason, and he was given Victor private Militia to help with his accuracy. Felix is strong enough to clean out an entire monster healthbar with quads and crits.

Catherine

Unfortunately Catherine just got outpaced in terms of levels, and was benched after Aillel. It was a shame since she was sooooo good pre-timeskip. She probably would've kept up if I kept having her as an adjutant, but I decided to have Sylvain, Ingrid, and Seteth instead to build supports haha.

Linhardt

He took over Catherine's spot, and does his job well. All he does is heal, stride, and warp. The last spell was especially useful at Fort Merceus, allowing me to warp Byleth and Lysithea to kill the Death Knight.

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