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Darkmoon6789

Are the bearers of the Crest of Flames immortal? (Spoilers for VW)

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I just finished verdant wind and I don't think I can't understand how Nemesis is still alive. There seem to be an implication that the crest of flames had the power to resurrect him due to having the power of the goddess, that maybe his body was reconstituted by its power over the centuries. Is this interpretation correct or has it more to do with the science of the Agarthans?

If this interpretation is correct, then that has interesting implications for Byleth and Edelgard. Would this mean that Edelgard would eventually return from the grave like Nemesis did? Could Byleth even die at all? Let's say Edelgard returns to the world after 100 years due to the power of her crest, would she be as aggressive as Nemesis or would she see that the world had become a better place in her absence and not pursue any violent action? At the very least, I think that Byleth and Edelgard in crimson flower are immune to this fate due to neither of them having the crest of flames any more

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There is also M!BylethxYuri's endings in AM/VW/SS: "[...] Curiously, informal notes and letters from friends suggested that the pair was extraordinary long-lived and their youth was untouched by the passage of time."

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5 minutes ago, Danaos said:

There is also M!BylethxYuri's endings in AM/VW/SS: "[...] Curiously, informal notes and letters from friends suggested that the pair was extraordinary long-lived and their youth was untouched by the passage of time."

Interesting, so it seems like the crest that Yuri has have similar properties, granted in the case of Nemesis. I think he was actually killed, that he wasn't implies regenerative properties beyond what I expected for the crest of flames

 

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The gist of it is, first generation crest bearers, meaning those who got crest from the source, have more powers and a longer lifespan, that's why Jeralt's got so old, he got is crest directly from Seiros. Same with Nemesis from Sothis. And presumably Yuri from his donor who's implied to be the Aubin himself before dying.

Presumably, the closer you get the crest from the source, the stronger it and you are. It's... kind of like Generation from Vampire The Masquerade.

Byleth is a special case, it's important to know that their crest doesn't come from their blood but the crest stone on his heart. Presumably their immortality come from fusing with Sothis. Their personal class is called Nirvana in the japanese version. After losing the crest stone at the end of CS, they lose everything including their crest. don't ask me why it disapear tho

As to why Byleth and Yuri are able to somehow able to manipulate their immortality willy nilly... no idea. My guess is that's a shortcut from the writer. 😛
...Because while I can sorta see Byleth "God is my Grandma, and I become my own grandma and God" Eisner to do that, I really don't see Yuri "Blood of a random in a bad plot" Leclerc to do that.

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That’s because two crests put extreme stress on the body. It’s the same with Lysithea who probably would have been a physical power house with her natural minor crest of Charon if she hadn’t been forced to bear a second crest. The difference between them is Edelgard’s second crest is also physical while Lysithea’s is magic based so while both have drastically shortened lifespans Edie is still able to excel in physical classes while Lysithea is a glass canon. The natural physical crests may in fact be the reason they survived the experiments in the first place.

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Aren't their implications that Edelgard might in fact have a reduced lifespawn instead of an extended one?

You are correct, I was actually wondering how exactly that was going to work with the established power of the crest of flames. Assuming that Edelgard have the same regenerative capabilities as Nemesis, which it is possible she doesn't as she isn't the original bearer of the crest. I do however speculate that because the Agarthans actually had access to Nemesis. She was probably just given a blood transfusion with his blood through blood reconstruction surgery. Why they didn't use Nemesis in the war. I have no idea, but I speculate this is because he is notoriously difficult to control and way more powerful than them. So they felt that Edelgard was a puppet they had better control over.

I sort of wonder if while having two crests will eventually kill her, it doesn't seem like the regenerative qualities of the crest of flame is natural, Nemesis was brought back as more of a type of undead revenant more than a human being. So I wonder if it is possible that the two crests would kill Edelgard only to reanimate her body as the same type of revenant as Nemesis over the years (it does seem to be a slow process). 

Of course, this is terrible for Edelgard, it would actually be better for her. If this theory is disproven. At the very least, I do think that the girl deserves a clean death, a proper burial and to rest in peace. 

We can confirm that Edelgard in crimson flower did get rid of the crest of flames and expanding her lifespan, right? You would think that if this could be done for Lysithea. This could also be done for Edelgard. Knowing her she would prefer the a regular mortal capable of dying, like any other human rather than a ageless immortal who can't be killed.

Also, how do they know that Nemesis is now gone for good? He wasn't permanently dead last time, so maybe he will be able to return in the future. I also kind of wonder if Edelgard had this thing with Nemesis occur after eliminating the Agarthans main base in crimson flower, it seems logical that it would

Edited by Darkmoon6789

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If that's the case, then how was Sothis killed in the first place? Her "Crest of Flames" should be stronger than anyone's. Yet she was killed, dismembered, and only "brought back" as a figment of Byleth's imagination.

I would sooner ascribe Nemesis' return to "weird Agarthan technology". The other 10 Elites come back too (presumably, they were preserved by Twiztid as well?), and none of them have the Crest of Flames.

In that case, it'd probably be possible to preserve anyone (at least, anyone with a Crest) and revive them at will. But we don't really know how the Slitherins did it.

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The Crest of Flames is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. It is likely that the Crest of Flames is why Nemesis could return from the grave, but it's complicated because no one in universe has a full understanding how it works, not even Rhea. The only thing she has to say about his revival is

Quote

Claude: Do you really think the ancient King of Liberation has been brought back to life?
Rhea: Perhaps the seal was broken when Shambhala fell… An incredible power that we children cannot hope to match dwells within the blood of the progenitor god. Nemesis obtained that blood, so it would not surprise me if that were the case.

 Even the Chalice of Beginnings, apparently created by Sothis herself, cannot bring back a departed soul. It's possible that the Crest of Flames made Nemesis durable enough that he technically didn't die when Seiros defeated him. Based on the line, Rhea seems to have realized this and sealed his body away to prevent him from coming back. It's unclear how much influence the Agarthans had in his return, but he and the Elites have replicas of their Relics so they seem to have planned for it to happen. His red-and-black eyes seem to indicate that his revival wasn't natural though.

Could Edelgard come back too? I suppose that would depend on how "dead" she is. Edelgard's Crest of Flames seems weaker than Nemesis's and Byleth's, which could be because she got it artificially, so it might not be strong enough to prevent her from dying and staying dead.

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2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

If that's the case, then how was Sothis killed in the first place? Her "Crest of Flames" should be stronger than anyone's. Yet she was killed, dismembered, and only "brought back" as a figment of Byleth's imagination.

There's pretty heavy indications that Sothis was already did when Nemesis found her, and that healing the land of Fodlan made her "deep" sleep be the more fatal kind. Rhea states that Nemesis stole her "remains" in both VW/SS. 

6 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

Interesting, so it seems like the crest that Yuri has have similar properties, granted in the case of Nemesis. I think he was actually killed, that he wasn't implies regenerative properties beyond what I expected for the crest of flames

 

6 hours ago, Danaos said:

There is also M!BylethxYuri's endings in AM/VW/SS: "[...] Curiously, informal notes and letters from friends suggested that the pair was extraordinary long-lived and their youth was untouched by the passage of time."

Keep in mind that outside of Crimson Flower, Byleth has the full power of Sothis, therefore, has the longevity.

Yuri is a first generation Crest bearer, similar to Nemesis, the Ten Elites, and Jeralt, as he received his Crest from likely Saint Aubin himself directly.

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42 minutes ago, Quillmonger said:

I took the Nemesis at the end to be a zombie or some kind of construct like a golem or clone. 

I originally thought the same until I heard what Rhea had to say about the crest of flames in relation to Nemesis return. While I had known that Nemesis would be the final boss of this route for quite a while I did expect drastically different circumstances. It probably had something to do with the Agarthans. But it also might be stolen divine power that made Nemesis immortal and the Agarthans just kept him contained because he had grown too powerful to control. Only released as a side effect of their base falling

I am also not certain how to Nemesis army and the 10 elites came back, this is either an extension of nemesis power or the work of the Agarthans. At the very least, I am certain that the relic copies are the work of the Agarthans, so they were probably some kind of backup plan for them. Not sure why they would need to give Edelgard the crest of flames. If they had access to Nemesis, other than that they thought she would be easier to control the Nemesis.

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