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What playable franchise (besides Final Fantasy) do you think suffers from representation?

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Just as the title says, which playable franchise BESIDES Final Fantasy do you think has bad if not some of the WORST Smash Bros. representation?

For me, Game and Watch by a huge margin. All it has besides Mr. Game & Watch, Flat Zone X, and the two Flat Zone themes we were graced with as of Brawl is Spirits. That's it. No Manhole Assist Trophy (and yes, I know it's part of Mr. Game & Watch’s moveset), no Game and Watch Gallery music, no original Game and Watch stage that isn't just Flat Zone X...poor Mr. G&W.

Another pretty big offender for me is Punch-Out. Spirits are technically all it truly has as well, along with Little Mac and Boxing Ring. No Assist Trophies* and only 5 songs (3 of which are just the same songs, just different versions).

*Not counting ye olde days of Brawl, when  was an Assist Trophy himself and the only other semblance of Punch-Out content was in a Famicom medley.

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Fire Emblem

In all seriousness, having four Marths when the series is capable of bringing so much more to the table is poor representation, just not the "there's only [this few] characters" kind. 

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Zelda. Sure, it doesn't have a lot of notable characters to pick from, but it's still one of Nintendo's big 3 (maybe big 4 given how FE's been doing lately) along with Mario and Pokemon and is overdue for a newcomer. And there are still some choices they could use that aren't playable yet, like Impa and Vaati. I'd pick Vaati since I feel like Impa would just be a Sheik clone. And I really like Vaati, he's my favorite Zelda villain.

Ideally, I'd just replace Sheik all together with Impa and just give Impa a tweaked Sheik moveset, but that would never happen.

As for Vaati, he'd use his Minish look from The Minish Cap get a unique wind magic-based moveset and his Final Smash would be his eyeball-bat form that he has at the end of TMC and the other Four Sword games. No brainer here to me! I really wish Sakurai and them would press Capcom for permission to use him.

Edited by Anacybele

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I feel like PAC-MAN could use some more representation. M(r)s. PAC-MAN would be a perfect Echo Fighter, the PAC-Maze stage would be a blast to play with its nostalgia and unique gimmick, and with Namco's rich history, ten songs is selling it a little short.

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18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Zelda. Sure, it doesn't have a lot of notable characters to pick from, but it's still one of Nintendo's big 3 (maybe big 4 given how FE's been doing lately) along with Mario and Pokemon and is overdue for a newcomer. And there are still some choices they could use that aren't playable yet, like Impa and Vaati. I'd pick Vaati since I feel like Impa would just be a Sheik clone. And I really like Vaati, he's my favorite Zelda villain.

Ideally, I'd just replace Sheik all together with Impa and just give Impa a tweaked Sheik moveset, but that would never happen.

As for Vaati, he'd use his Minish look from The Minish Cap get a unique wind magic-based moveset and his Final Smash would be his eyeball-bat form that he has at the end of TMC and the other Four Sword games. No brainer here to me! I really wish Sakurai and them would press Capcom for permission to use him.

I actually agree with all of this. I also for no good reason want Malon in smash. #Malon is link's waifu

 

Other than that, I gotta say that they should have more third-party units. Like, I didn't know what Atelier or Megadimension Neptunia were until a few weeks ago! This is a crime, people!!

Also, not sure if anyone else has ever played it, but man, they need an Outdoor Challenge map or something. The art in it just amazing even though it's old.

2 minutes ago, Morgan--Grandmaster said:

I feel like PAC-MAN could use some more representation. M(r)s. PAC-MAN would be a perfect Echo Fighter, the PAC-Maze stage would be a blast to play with its nostalgia and unique gimmick, and with Namco's rich history, ten songs is selling it a little short.

Plus they could use the people from the TV show, I guess. Then again, it is kinda slanderous to the franchise.

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5 minutes ago, Benice said:

Plus they could use the people from the TV show, I guess. Then again, it is kinda slanderous to the franchise.

Or at least sample part of the "life lost" sound when they get K.O.ed similar to what they did with Mega Man--the ol' "wah-wah"

PAC-MAN

Spoiler

 

Ms. PAC-MAN

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by Morgan--Grandmaster

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9 minutes ago, Morgan--Grandmaster said:

Or at least sample part of the "life lost" sound when they get K.O.ed similar to what they did with Mega Man--the ol' "wah-wah"

PAC-MAN

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Ms. PAC-MAN

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I still find it a crime that that sound ISN’T PAC-MAN’s Star K.O. sound even though it’s one of the most recognizable death sounds in gaming history.

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18 minutes ago, Benice said:

I actually agree with all of this. I also for no good reason want Malon in smash. #Malon is link's waifu

Sorry to say I can't agree on the Malon thing (I'm a Link x Zelda shipper for every game in the series except TP), but awesome to hear!

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17 minutes ago, Benice said:

Plus they could use the people from the TV show, I guess. Then again, it is kinda slanderous to the franchise.

One of the rules states "they have to be originally from a videogame." If we allowed them, then we'd open the floodgates for people wanting Goku from Dragon Ball Z in (not that there aren't already, but still...).

56 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

For me, Game and Watch by a huge margin. All it has besides Mr. Game & Watch, Flat Zone X, and the two Flat Zone themes we were graced with as of Brawl is Spirits.

Game and Watch has a lot more spirits than Duck Hunt, Wii Fit and the Ice Climbers have.

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Just now, NinjaMonkey said:

One of the rules states "they have to be originally from a videogame." If we allowed them, then we'd open the floodgates for people wanting Goku from Dragon Ball Z in (not that there aren't already, but still...).

Game and Watch has a lot more spirits than Duck Hunt, Wii Fit and the Ice Climbers have.

Oh no, it’s not the NUMBER of Spirits I’m concerned about (at least in G&W’s case). It’s the fact that they’re the only proper non-Fighter representation of G&W as a franchise.

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I am actually perfectly fine whit FF, and if he was not a swordsman i would rather have Chrono or "hewhoshouldnotbenamed" as another square character. In the end third party characters should just be a nice extra and a way to cash in[\strike].

That said, i would argue everything that is not Mario, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus or an older game that is not relevant anymore. Ok maybe not pokemon, but i will forever be salty about the fact that the best generation got jack shit because some people hate ice creams.

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59 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

For me, Game and Watch by a huge margin. All it has besides Mr. Game & Watch, Flat Zone X, and the two Flat Zone themes we were graced with as of Brawl is Spirits. That's it. No Manhole Assist Trophy (and yes, I know it's part of Mr. Game & Watch’s moveset), no Game and Watch Gallery music, no original Game and Watch stage that isn't just Flat Zone X...poor Mr. G&W.

You know, in the list of "under/misrepresnted franchises in Smash", Game and Watch was not what i expected to see. I mean, like, what else do you add to Game and Watch? I know you listed Game and Watch Gallery but like, you kinda have everything. 

_________________________________________________________

I'm gonna echo the Fire Emblem mention (heh) a little bit. As far as legacy goes, i think the representation is actually good. But the playable roster does not give a good impression that Fire Emblem is more than just swords.

Xenoblade is also one that i'd aruge isn't represented well. I mean, apart from Spirits, there is basically no Xenoblade X representation at all. The music part is also kinda lacking, not in the songs themselves (they are all bangers) but just the oddly small amount. Apart from the three Xenoblade 2 tracks, there are no new Xenoblade tracks, while most franchises got a lot more.

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48 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Zelda. Sure, it doesn't have a lot of notable characters to pick from, but it's still one of Nintendo's big 3 (maybe big 4 given how FE's been doing lately) along with Mario and Pokemon and is overdue for a newcomer. And there are still some choices they could use that aren't playable yet, like Impa and Vaati. I'd pick Vaati since I feel like Impa would just be a Sheik clone. And I really like Vaati, he's my favorite Zelda villain.

Ideally, I'd just replace Sheik all together with Impa and just give Impa a tweaked Sheik moveset, but that would never happen.

As for Vaati, he'd use his Minish look from The Minish Cap get a unique wind magic-based moveset and his Final Smash would be his eyeball-bat form that he has at the end of TMC and the other Four Sword games. No brainer here to me! I really wish Sakurai and them would press Capcom for permission to use him.

I agree. Zelda is a bit under-represented.

I'll have to take your word for it about Vaati, since I haven't played Minish Cap; only Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures, and that version of Vaati would be an assist trophy at best. 

I could also see Tetra as something of a mix between Toon Link and Sheik, with her own unique stuff thrown in. I basically would give her every Wind Waker item Toon Link doesn't have: Grappling Hook, Deku Leaf, etc. 

Wolf Link & Midna could also work as a fighter. It would help certainly help alleviate the fact that Wolf Link's horrendously underutilized in Twilight Princess and his moveset is pitiful.

 

12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sorry to say I can't agree on the Malon thing (I'm a Link x Zelda shipper for every game in the series except TP), but awesome to hear!

I've said before that I don't ship, but I have to agree with Anacybele on this one. I can see the appeal of Malon as a love-interest for Link: red-headed farm girl with a sweet personality, and it helps that Twilight Princess Link is a rancher and possibly the Hero of Time's actual descendant (was that theory ever confirmed or denied?) But, ultimately, the increased screen-time between Link and Zelda compared to Malon and their interesting dynamic makes them more interesting to me. 

Funny enough, if you've ever wondered why there are so many girls in Ocarina of Time that have implied/confirmed romantic interest in Link (Saria, Malon, Ruto, and Zelda), it is because the game was originally going to have some dating-sim elements that basically would let the player pick which girl Link ends up with. However, this idea was scrapped after the story was ironed out and they realized that the story basically made all four girls unavailable in some fashion. 

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36 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I'll have to take your word for it about Vaati, since I haven't played Minish Cap; only Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures, and that version of Vaati would be an assist trophy at best. 

Both in the manga and the game, Vaati is a very good character and there's a lot he could do. But dang, if he's not one of the toughest bosses in the series, if not THE toughest.

36 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I could also see Tetra as something of a mix between Toon Link and Sheik, with her own unique stuff thrown in. I basically would give her every Wind Waker item Toon Link doesn't have: Grappling Hook, Deku Leaf, etc. 

Ain't she still an assist trophy or something? Either way, yeah, could be cool, especially if she got the hammer and stuff.

36 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Wolf Link & Midna could also work as a fighter. It would help certainly help alleviate the fact that Wolf Link's horrendously underutilized in Twilight Princess and his moveset is pitiful.

Yeah, I agree, although I liked the integration of extra stuff you could do once wolfing became something you could do on command.

36 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I've said before that I don't ship, but I have to agree with Anacybele on this one. I can see the appeal of Malon as a love-interest for Link: red-headed farm girl with a sweet personality, and it helps that Twilight Princess Link is a rancher and possibly the Hero of Time's actual descendant (was that theory ever confirmed or denied?) But, ultimately, the increased screen-time between Link and Zelda compared to Malon and their interesting dynamic makes them more interesting to me. 

Ehh, fair enough. Me being the nerd that I am has read the manga adaption, and I liked Malon's interactions with Link far better than that with Zelda for the most part. That said, I don't take those as canon, but Link doesn't really interact much with anyone at all during OoT. Never said my opinion was valid, (because it's not) but that's the nice thing about opinions.

36 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Funny enough, if you've ever wondered why there are so many girls in Ocarina of Time that have implied/confirmed romantic interest in Link (Saria, Malon, Ruto, and Zelda), it is because the game was originally going to have some dating-sim elements that basically would let the player pick which girl Link ends up with. However, this idea was scrapped after the story was ironed out and they realized that the story basically made all four girls unavailable in some fashion. 

Honestly, the remake, which I hope comes out soon, has to have this. (You get love points, and you get specific items?)

At least they didn't make the Gerudo waman a love interest too. Twinrova X Link, tho? Hot.

Edited by Benice

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Sonic due to him having 

A. a very unimaginative moveset that only takes from Sonic 1/2/The Fighters & Adventure 1 and having a very boring playstyle ontop of it. All mods like Project M can and did fix this.
B. Only one song remix along with all the vocal songs not even being their full versions and only having around 20 songs to begin with especially considering the very high caliber the franchise has in terms of song choice.

Edited by Jedi

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52 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I agree. Zelda is a bit under-represented.

I'll have to take your word for it about Vaati, since I haven't played Minish Cap; only Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures, and that version of Vaati would be an assist trophy at best. 

I could also see Tetra as something of a mix between Toon Link and Sheik, with her own unique stuff thrown in. I basically would give her every Wind Waker item Toon Link doesn't have: Grappling Hook, Deku Leaf, etc. 

Wolf Link & Midna could also work as a fighter. It would help certainly help alleviate the fact that Wolf Link's horrendously underutilized in Twilight Princess and his moveset is pitiful.

Oh yeah, Vaati definitely has a MUCH larger role in TMC and we get his backstory here. His normal form is also more suitable as a Smash fighter than his eyeball bat form anyway. I also have to echo Benice on Vaati being one tough customer to beat in this game too. To this day, he is still the most difficult final boss in the series imo. Though Calamity Ganon in BotW does come quite close.

And who doesn't love this artwork of the three major characters? XD

Spoiler

442-4425944_zelda-minish-cap-vaati-legen

Tetra or Wolf Link + Midna would be neat too. We already have three Links in the game though, so I don't think we need a fourth. Toon Zelda or Tetra would be cool though. I'd prefer Toon Zelda honestly, she's always been cuter to me.

52 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Hero of Time's actual descendant (was that theory ever confirmed or denied?)

I believe this was confirmed, actually. It was also confirmed that the Hero's Shade is in fact the ghost of OoT Link himself too. This means that in my ficverse, TP Link is descended from royalty since I put OoT Link and Zelda together, and that is one reason I don't ship TP Link with TP Zelda, I ended up making them related, though kinda distantly. The other reason is that I like the idea of Link getting together with a warrior girl like Ashei anyway.

And where did you hear that thing about OoT once planned to have dating sim elements? This is the first I'd heard about that one.

But getting back on topic. Ghirahim would be a cool choice for an addition to the Zelda roster too if he could leave AT status. I really like him and I believe he's pretty popular too. He's my favorite villain after Vaati.

Edited by Anacybele

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8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Oh yeah, Vaati definitely has a MUCH larger role in TMC and we get his backstory here. His normal form is also more suitable as a Smash fighter than his eyeball bat form anyway.

And who doesn't love this artwork of the three major characters? XD

  Reveal hidden contents

442-4425944_zelda-minish-cap-vaati-legen

 

Well, when I can get Minish Cap, I will definitely play it. 

 

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Tetra or Wolf Link + Midna would be neat too. We already have three Links in the game though, so I don't think we need a fourth. Toon Zelda or Tetra would be cool though. I'd prefer Toon Zelda honestly, she's always been cuter to me.

Yeah; I suppose a fourth Link would be redundant.

Who says it has to be Toon Zelda or Tetra? They can be alternate palettes, especially since, apart from in Spirit Tracks, they are one-and-the-same. 

 

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I believe this was confirmed, actually. It was also confirmed that the Hero's Shade is in fact the ghost of OoT Link himself too. This means that in my ficverse, TP Link is descended from royalty since I put Link and Zelda together, and that is one reason I don't ship TP Link with TP Zelda, I ended up making them related, though kinda distantly. The other reason is that I like the idea of Link getting together with a warrior girl like Ashei anyway.

I see. Thanks for letting me know.

Yeah; I already knew about the Hero's Shade being the Hero of Time since I have a copy of Hyrule Historia. 

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And where did you hear that thing about OoT once planned to have dating sim elements? This is the first I'd heard about that one.

I admit that it's not a completely reliable source, so take it with a grain of salt:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime (scroll down until you get to, "What Could Have Been")

 

Quote

But getting back on topic. Ghirahim would be a cool choice for an addition to the Zelda roster too if he could leave AT status. I really like him and I believe he's pretty popular too. He's my favorite villain after Vaati.

Yeah; Ghirahim is interesting from what I've seen. I never played Skyward Sword since I'm left-handed and I thought it was unfair to have to play the game right-handed when Link has always been the Left-Handed Hero. 

Edited by vanguard333

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6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Well, when I can get Minish Cap, I will definitely play it. 

Yes! It's an amazing and fun game, and I love all the colorful sprite graphics. It's to this day my favorite handheld game of all time. I admit it is a little on the short and easy side though. But that's my only issue with it and even those things don't bother me too much. I do wish we'd gotten more Four Sword Zelda games with Vaati being Vaati again too. I greatly enjoyed TMC and Four Swords Adventures (this one is for the Gamecube. It's not the GBA Four Swords game, that one is different). Four Swords on the GBA is alright too, though not quite as good imo.

6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Who says it has to be Toon Zelda or Tetra? They can be alternate palettes, especially since, apart from in Spirit Tracks, they are one-and-the-same. 

Because given how they were treated in Hyrule Warriors, I imagine they'd also get different movesets in Smash too, with Tetra wielding her cutlass and gun while Toon Zelda makes use of the armor from Spirit Tracks as well as a bow.

6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I admit that it's not a completely reliable source, so take it with a grain of salt:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime (scroll down until you get to, "What Could Have Been")

Huh, I see. Interesting that Aonuma and Miyamoto actually apologized for the Water Temple stuff. I must be the only person on the planet that never had trouble with that place! I admit it DID take me some time to find all the keys, but I never once felt legitimately stuck or confused, even as a kid.

Edited by Anacybele

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Just now, Anacybele said:

Yes! It's an amazing and fun game, and I love all the colorful sprite graphics. It's to this day my favorite handheld game of all time. I admit it is a little on the short and easy side though. But that's my only issue with it and even those things don't bother me too much. I do wish we'd gotten more Four Sword Zelda games with Vaati being Vaati again too. I greatly enjoyed TMC and Four Swords Adventures (this one is for the Gamecube. It's not the GBA Four Swords game, that one is different). Four Swords on the GBA is alright too, though not quite as good imo.

I enjoyed the GameCube one as well. The only thing I disliked was that it was marketed as a multiplayer Zelda game but the only way to play it multiplayer was through those expensive GBA connectors, which I didn't have. I bought the game to play Legend of Zelda with my brother and sister, and I ended up playing alone. Tri Force Heroes wasn't much better, as its multiplayer is online-dependent.

I too would like to see more Four Swords games. Perhaps a Four Swords game for the Switch?

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Because given how they were treated in Hyrule Warriors, I imagine they'd also get different movesets in Smash too, with Tetra wielding her cutlass and gun while Toon Zelda makes use of the armor from Spirit Tracks as well as a bow.

Huh. Once again, I've never actually played that game. That's three times in a row, and here I call myself a Zelda fan?

 

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Huh, I see. Interesting that Aonuma and Miyamoto actually apologized for the Water Temple stuff. I must be the only person on the planet that never had trouble with that place! I admit it DID take me some time to find all the keys, but I never once felt legitimately stuck or confused, even as a kid.

I never got as far as the Water Temple as a kid (I was a coward when it came to the dungeons. On the plus side, it meant I found a ton of the game's side-content). I recently replayed the game, and, when I got to the Water Temple, I honestly thought it was a rather neat dungeon. I liked the mechanic of raising and lowering the water level and swimming vs walking-at-the-bottom. I guess the only problem I had with it would be that having to go into the menu every time I wanted to equip/unequip the Iron Boots was a bit tedious. So, no, you're not the only one. 

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6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I enjoyed the GameCube one as well. The only thing I disliked was that it was marketed as a multiplayer Zelda game but the only way to play it multiplayer was through those expensive GBA connectors, which I didn't have. I bought the game to play Legend of Zelda with my brother and sister, and I ended up playing alone. Tri Force Heroes wasn't much better, as its multiplayer is online-dependent.

I too would like to see more Four Swords games. Perhaps a Four Swords game for the Switch?

I actually did get to experience the multiplayer aspect of the game with my younger brother, but I have to admit the single player did a good job too by featuring the formations mechanic that is unavailable in multiplayer for obvious reasons.

And yes, that would be AWESOME.

6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Huh. Once again, I've never actually played that game. That's three times in a row, and here I call myself a Zelda fan?

Well, to be fair here, Hyrule Warriors is a spinoff and it may not be to the taste of every Zelda fan since it obviously doesn't use traditional Zelda gameplay, nor does it even feature dungeons.

6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I never got as far as the Water Temple as a kid (I was a coward when it came to the dungeons. On the plus side, it meant I found a ton of the game's side-content). I recently replayed the game, and, when I got to the Water Temple, I honestly thought it was a rather neat dungeon. I liked the mechanic of raising and lowering the water level and swimming vs walking-at-the-bottom. I guess the only problem I had with it would be that having to go into the menu every time I wanted to equip/unequip the Iron Boots was a bit tedious. So, no, you're not the only one. 

Wow, nice to hear! I didn't like having to switch the Iron Boots on and off either, even my mom criticized that part and she doesn't know much about video games at all beyond a few PC ones! I'm glad this was changed in the 3DS remake. I showed my mom the change too. XD She doesn't play anything more than computer games these days though.

Edited by Anacybele

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Donkey Kong. It's insane that such a franchise only just got its third playable rep (and its first assist trophy), and due to a popularity vote at that. The stages for it have all been jungle-based even though there are plenty of other interesting locales in the series (please give me the The Flying Kroc) and most of the music is various jungle tracks and remixes of those tracks.

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Among first party franchises? Zelda and Kirby. They're both long overdue for a new character. Zelda is one of Nintendo's Big 3 franchises, and yet it hasn't gotten a unique newcomer since Melee. It just feels weird seeing Fire Emblem having more characters than Zelda. As for Kirby, there needs to be a lot more representation for the Modern era. Nearly all of the representation for Kirby comes from the games Sakurai made.

Among third party franchises besides Final Fantasy? Sonic. For the third party character who's been in Smash the longest, he has pretty mediocre representation. His moveset is really bland as a result of him being a last minute inclusion in Brawl, with most of his attacks being him curling into a ball. Sonic has also only ever gotten one remix in Smash, that being the Angel Island Zone remix all the way back from Brawl. Also, why the hell is Shadow not an Echo Fighter? That still really ticks me off honestly, cuz he's one of the most obvious choices for an Echo Fighter, and yet they waited til the final fucking direct to deconfirm him. I seriously don't understand why they didn't just deconfirm him immediately if they didn't plan on having him be playable.

Edited by Gregster101

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1 hour ago, Perkilator said:

It’s the fact that they’re the only proper non-Fighter representation of G&W as a franchise.

So? The same can be said of those other franchises I mentioned (and as I said, they get even less than Game and Watch).

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1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

I actually did get to experience the multiplayer aspect of the game with my younger brother, but I have to admit the single player did a good job too by featuring the formations mechanic that is unavailable in multiplayer for obvious reasons.

And yes, that would be AWESOME.

Well, to be fair here, Hyrule Warriors is a spinoff and it may not be to the taste of every Zelda fan since it obviously doesn't use traditional Zelda gameplay, nor does it even feature dungeons.

Wow, nice to hear! I didn't like having to switch the Iron Boots on and off either, even my mom criticized that part and she doesn't know much about video games at all beyond a few PC ones! I'm glad this was changed in the 3DS remake. I showed my mom the change too. XD She doesn't play anything more than computer games these days though.

Oh, cool. Yeah; I agree about the formations mechanic. That was a good way to handle four characters being controlled by one person. I'm surprised more games with the player controlling multiple characters don't implement similar mechanics. I could even see a variation of it work in 3rd-person.

True. I had originally planned to get Hyrule Warriors for the Wii U, but the person at the store suggested Xenoblade Chronicles X instead. Honestly, looking back, I don't regret getting that game. 

Yeah; the iron boots was probably the most common criticism of that dungeon; it's no wonder they became an item rather than a piece of clothing in all subsequent games. I think Matthewmatosis probably summed it up best in his Ocarina of Time review: "The Water Temple isn't difficult, it's tedious." 

 

Anyway, to get back on topic, I could also see Totem Link (three links stacked on top of each other) from Tri Force Heroes in Smash as one of Sakurai's joke characters. 

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10 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

The Water Temple isn't difficult, it's tedious

Correct assement of the temple; the boss is kinda bad too because the tentacles are invisible for no real good reason? The Shadow link fight is pretty great, though. Now the SHADOW temple, that was hard.

Also, the best usage of the iron boots was in twilight princess. Oh man, the fire temple was super cool at those parts.

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