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What playable franchise (besides Final Fantasy) do you think suffers from representation?

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13 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

This I could see, though mainly just because I want Trevor Belmont in Smash Bros. Alucard would be an interesting second pick, but I can think of a certain pirate who could use some attention after being completely omitted from the TV show. 

If not Grant, then I could also see Sypha in Smash Bros, though probably as an assist trophy rather than a playable fighter. 

Hm...

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  • Impa would more than likely basically be Sheik. 
  • Marin could be interesting because of the Link's Awakening Remake, but she'd almost-certainly be better as an assist trophy than a fighter. 
  • Similar story for Saria, but less likely since it's been years since there was a remake of Ocarina of Time. 
  • Darunia would have rather limited moveset potential: roll, punch, swing a hammer. Again, assist trophy material. 
  • How would Ruto work? Would her attacks be sitting down and getting Link to throw her at enemies?
  • Would this be Nabooru as herself or as an Iron Knuckle?
  • Malon is assist trophy material; providing Lon Lon Milk or summoning Epona to trample opponents. 
  • How would Tingle work?! It's Tingle! I can't even see him as an assist trophy.
  • Those three versions of Link would work best as part of Young Link.
  • I've mentioned Vaati, Tetra, and Wolf Link & Midna. They could work. 
  • I'm having trouble seeing what Twilit Midna could do that Wolf Link & Midna couldn't. 
  • Would this be Linebeck as himself or possessed by Bellum?
  • Byrne could work, though he'd probably be best as a boss. 
  • What can Groose do? Make opponents' gorge rise at the sight of his appalling hair? (Sorry, I could't resist; I just love when Ghirahim says that to him; it's absolutely hilarious)
  • I could see Ghirahim as a full fighter rather than an assist trophy. 
  • How would Ravio work? Give him his items and he's basically Link (which, in a sense, he already is)
  • Hilda would probably be a Zelda echo. 
  • Yuga... I think I would rather see as a two-phase boss like Dracula. He uses his painting magic in the first phase, then he merges with Ganon in the second phase. 
  • Hm... I could see something done with the four champions, just not them being fighters. I'm just not sure what would be the best use of them though. 

 

Y'all are sleeping on the best candidate for a second unique Castlevania character, Maria Renard

though part of me wishes we could get Cornell

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1 minute ago, Gregster101 said:

Y'all are sleeping on the best candidate for a second unique Castlevania character, Maria Renard

though part of me wishes we could get Cornell

I have no idea who that is; I haven't played any Castlevania games, I've only seen the Netiflix show. It's really good, and it's one reason I want to see Trevor Belmont in Smash Bros. 

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8 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I have no idea who that is; I haven't played any Castlevania games, I've only seen the Netiflix show. It's really good, and it's one reason I want to see Trevor Belmont in Smash Bros. 

Lemme tell ya, there's SO MUCH in the games that aren't in the show. Before the show, Sypha was pretty background, and Alucard was definitely known for Symphony of the Night and his connections to Richter and Maria, not Trevor and Sypha. There's so many great Belmonts, like Leon and Juste, as well as other monster hunters in various other games.

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2 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Lemme tell ya, there's SO MUCH in the games that aren't in the show. Before the show, Sypha was pretty background, and Alucard was definitely known for Symphony of the Night and his connections to Richter and Maria, not Trevor and Sypha. There's so many great Belmonts, like Leon and Juste, as well as other monster hunters in various other games.

That much I was aware of; the games cover many generations of Belmonts, and the show so far has only covered one (and Curse of Darkness, the game in which Hector is the protagonist, is the reason they haven't yet moved on to another Belmont), with Trevor being the first Belmont to fight Dracula and survive since Leon: the first vampire-hunting Belmont. 

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3 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

That much I was aware of; the games cover many generations of Belmonts, and the show so far has only covered one (and Curse of Darkness, the game in which Hector is the protagonist, is the reason they haven't yet moved on to another Belmont), with Trevor being the first Belmont to fight Dracula and survive since Leon: the first vampire-hunting Belmont. 

Eh, the show actually hasn't covered Curse of Darkness yet. They've given hints of it throughout Season 2 and 3, but haven't gotten there yet.

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17 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Eh, the show actually hasn't covered Curse of Darkness yet. They've given hints of it throughout Season 2 and 3, but haven't gotten there yet.

That's what I mean; they still haven't covered it yet, but it's clear that they're building up to it. 

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4 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

How would Tingle work?! It's Tingle! I can't even see him as an assist trophy.

Tingle is an Assist Trophy, or at least was in earlier Smashes. Kooloo-Limpah! And then a random effect among several is chosen to happen.

 

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I have no idea who that is; I haven't played any Castlevania games, I've only seen the Netiflix show. It's really good, and it's one reason I want to see Trevor Belmont in Smash Bros. 

Maria Renard:

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First appeared in Castlevania: Rondo of Blood, Richter's origin game, at the age of 12. After being rescued by Richter, you can play as her instead of him. She is a distant Belmont relative with talent in magic. She later reappeared at the age of 17 in Symphony of the Night, she became playable as a bonus character in the Sega Saturn port and some other versions of Symphony of the Night after beating the game once. Left is her Rondo artwork, right is her Symphony. 

Maria uses animals for most of her weapons.

  • Her basic no-MP/Hearts attack is throwing doves at the enemy, which return to her after traveling a medium distance. The doves became white owls in her Symphony of the Night rendition.

Her other animal companions, used for her MP/Heart-consuming attacks, are the Ssu Ling- the four guardian animals representing the cardinal directions, seasons, and elements in Chinese mythology:

  • Suzaku (Feng Huang)- the Vermillion Bird/Phoenix.
  • Seiryu (Long)- the Azure Dragon.
  • Byakko (Baihu)- the White Tiger.
  • Genbu (Xuanwu)- the Black Tortoise/Tortoise & Snake.

The names in parentheses are the Chinese originals, Maria's companions use the Japanese names. Huang Long the Yellow Dragon and master of the quartet also exists in Chinese, but Japanese takes on the Ssu Ling usually, as in this case, leave it out.

More specifically, Maria uses throws phoenixes on an upward arc as her weapon against airborne foes. She sends on the dragons on a long straight line in front of her for a fast distance attack. She tosses electric white cats on the ground for multiple hits against anything big and stuck on the floor. And she can hide beneath the turtle shell to block/greatly reduce incoming damage.

 

Maria has the Guardian Knuckle technique too. She manifests a clone of herself clad in a purple superhero-ish outfit for a few moments to punch the enemy. Supposedly an anime reference.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Tingle is an Assist Trophy, or at least was in earlier Smashes. Kooloo-Limpah! And then a random effect among several is chosen to happen.

How did I forget that? For some reason, I only remember him being part of the Great Bay stage. 

 

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Maria Renard:

Ah; thanks. Interesting. She could probably work as a fighter or an assist trophy. 

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The topic title is a little confusing, but I'm still on board team Megaman.EXE. there is so much potential there for an awesome moveset, but of course they wouldnt go that in depth.

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On 3/17/2020 at 8:58 AM, vanguard333 said:
 
  • Impa would more than likely basically be Sheik. 
  • Marin could be interesting because of the Link's Awakening Remake, but she'd almost-certainly be better as an assist trophy than a fighter. 
  • Similar story for Saria, but less likely since it's been years since there was a remake of Ocarina of Time. 
  • Darunia would have rather limited moveset potential: roll, punch, swing a hammer. Again, assist trophy material. 
  • How would Ruto work? Would her attacks be sitting down and getting Link to throw her at enemies?
  • Would this be Nabooru as herself or as an Iron Knuckle?
  • Malon is assist trophy material; providing Lon Lon Milk or summoning Epona to trample opponents. 
  • How would Tingle work?! It's Tingle! I can't even see him as an assist trophy.
  • Those three versions of Link would work best as part of Young Link.
  • I've mentioned Vaati, Tetra, and Wolf Link & Midna. They could work. 
  • I'm having trouble seeing what Twilit Midna could do that Wolf Link & Midna couldn't. 
  • Would this be Linebeck as himself or possessed by Bellum?
  • Byrne could work, though he'd probably be best as a boss. 
  • What can Groose do? Make opponents' gorge rise at the sight of his appalling hair? (Sorry, I could't resist; I just love when Ghirahim says that to him; it's absolutely hilarious)
  • I could see Ghirahim as a full fighter rather than an assist trophy. 
  • How would Ravio work? Give him his items and he's basically Link (which, in a sense, he already is)
  • Hilda would probably be a Zelda echo. 
  • Yuga... I think I would rather see as a two-phase boss like Dracula. He uses his painting magic in the first phase, then he merges with Ganon in the second phase. 
  • Hm... I could see something done with the four champions, just not them being fighters. I'm just not sure what would be the best use of them though.
  • In other words, an Echo Fighter.
  • Marin could be a good alt for Zelda, especially if they add Classic Zelda.
  • Limited moveset didn't stop Fox and Captain Falcon. Heck, Darunia has more material to work with. Just look at him in Hyrule Warriors.
  • Well, she could always fight using dance moves and water magic, like in Hyrule Warriors. Maybe add a spear to her moveset as a nod to Mipha.
  • By default, Nabooru would fight like the Gerudo Thieves using scimitars, but I could see her using an axe in her smashes as a nod to the Iron Knuckle. Can't forget the Silver Gauntlets, either.
  • Malon could play like a cowgirl, using a whip as her main weapon and using a bow or crossbows as her N Special. She could also be another good variant for Zelda. I do like the AT suggestion, though.
  • Ironically, Tingle's been an Assist Trophy before. As a fighter, he'd probably use dance moves, bombs, a bag of Rupees, and his balloon. In fact, his recovery could be Balloon Fighter since he starred in a version of that game. Again, I point to HW.
  • I concur, I think they should be transformations.
  • See Twili Midna in HW.
  • Linebeck himself, obviously. He's a lot more amusing as an artful dodger than as a possessed brute.
  • For starters, Groose can punch and kick. He also made the Groosenator, which would probably factor into his Final Smash. He can fly on his Loftwing, and he could use items from SS such as the Beetle, Whip, Mogma Mitts, and Gust Bellows.
  • Ravio doesn't have a sword, so he'd probably use his Hammer. He could also use the Rods, though I'm thinking those would work well for Classic Zelda. At the very least, he can be referenced in one of Classic Link's costumes.
  • Most likely, the Champions would be referenced through their weapons and spells, but I'm sure their fans would appreciate being able to play them to make up for their wasted potential in BotW.
Edited by Lord_Brand

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1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

In other words, an Echo Fighter.

Marin could be a good alt for Zelda, especially if they add Classic Zelda.

Limited moveset didn't stop Fox and Captain Falcon. Heck, Darunia has more material to work with. Just look at him in Hyrule Warriors.

Well, she could always fight using dance moves and water magic, like in Hyrule Warriors. Maybe add a spear to her moveset as a nod to Mipha.

By default, Nabooru would fight like the Gerudo Thieves using scimitars, but I could see her using an axe in her smashes as a nod to the Iron Knuckle. Can't forget the Silver Gauntlets, either.

Malon could play like a cowgirl, using a whip as her main weapon and using a bow or crossbows as her N Special. She could also be another good variant for Zelda. I do like the AT suggestion, though.

Ironically, Tingle's been an Assist Trophy before. As a fighter, he'd probably use dance moves, bombs, a bag of Rupees, and his balloon. In fact, his recovery could be Balloon Fighter since he starred in a version of that game. Again, I point to HW.

I concur, I think they should be transformations.

See Twili Midna in HW.

Linebeck himself, obviously. He's a lot more amusing as an artful dodger than as a possessed brute.

For starters, Groose can punch and kick. He also made the Groosenator, which would probably factor into his Final Smash. He can fly on his Loftwing, and he could use items from SS such as the Beetle, Whip, Mogma Mitts, and Gust Bellows.

Ravio doesn't have a sword, so he'd probably use his Hammer. He could also use the Rods, though I'm thinking those would work well for Classic Zelda. At the very least, he can be referenced in one of Classic Link's costumes.

Most likely, the Champions would be referenced through their weapons and spells, but I'm sure their fans would appreciate being able to play them to make up for their wasted potential in BotW.

Either an Echo Fighter or a Semi-Clone; that's the reason I was less explicit. 

I suppose Marin could work like that. The thing is that she isn't really magic. I mean...

Spoiler

She's made of magic by being a product of the Wind Fish's dream, but she herself doesn't really show any magical abilities. 

Fox and Captain Falcon were protagonists. Darunia is a supporting character. 

I thought it was clear that I was making a joke.

The silver gauntlets weren't used for punching, but pushing and lifting heavy objects. 

When did a whip ever appear in Ocarina of Time?

I was recently reminded that Tingle was an assist trophy. Honestly, I think he should stay an assist trophy, though I do like that idea. 

Thanks. I think that seems to be what most people think should be done with the transformation masks from Majora's Mask. Also, maybe one of his smash attacks in human form should be using the bomber mask: he creates an explosion in front of him while blocking with his shield to avoid taking damage from his own attack. 

What's HW?

Amusing, yes. But the game makes it clear that normal Linebeck is not a fighter in any sense of the word, even after he gets character development. 

Again; I thought it was clear that I was joking. Still, those ideas could work. 

Ravio as a Classic Link costume could work. In fact, that would probably be best. 

Incorporating their weapons (and the abilities that they give Link) could work and be very interesting. And, while I don't think making them fighters could work, making them assist trophies could work very well for fans who feel they were wasted in BOTW. 

Edited by vanguard333

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2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Either an Echo Fighter or a Semi-Clone; that's the reason I was less explicit. 

I suppose Marin could work like that. The thing is that she isn't really magic.

Fox and Captain Falcon were protagonists. Darunia is a supporting character. 

I thought it was clear that I was making a joke.

The silver gauntlets weren't used for punching, but pushing and lifting heavy objects. 

When did a whip ever appear in Ocarina of Time?

I was recently reminded that Tingle was an assist trophy. Honestly, I think he should stay an assist trophy, though I do like that idea. 

Thanks. I think that seems to be what most people think should be done with the transformation masks from Majora's Mask. Also, maybe one of his smash attacks in human form should be using the bomber mask: he creates an explosion in front of him while blocking with his shield to avoid taking damage from his own attack. 

What's HW?

Amusing, yes. But the game makes it clear that normal Linebeck is not a fighter in any sense of the word, even after he gets character development. 

Again; I thought it was clear that I was joking. Still, those ideas could work. 

Ravio as a Classic Link costume could work. In fact, that would probably be best. 

Incorporating their weapons (and the abilities that they give Link) could work and be very interesting. And, while I don't think making them fighters could work, making them assist trophies could work very well for fans who feel they were wasted in BOTW. 

  • Were it up to me, Impa would be the base, and Sheik would be the Echo or Semiclone.
  • That's the clever part: Classic Zelda would use a Magic Rod as her main weapon. And what item appears in Turtle Rock in LA? 😉
  • A supporting character with more moveset potential than Fox and Falcon. And Darunia wouldn't be the only supporting character in Smash: Bowser, Jr., Rosalina & Luma, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, Isabelle...
  • Nabooru could use the Silver Gauntlets to pick up and throw boulders, like Link does. Plus it makes sense that she'd use them to swing that big, heavy axe around.
  • It didn't have to, just being an item from the Zelda series is enough. Besides, Malon has appeared in other games: MM, OoS, FSA, and TMC. Even without the whip, she could use farm tools as weapons, like the Pitchfork and Farming Hoe as seen in BotW. In fact, I like the idea of Malon with a Pitchfork. Maybe add a bucket as well? She could even use Cuccos and horses somewhere in her moveset!
  • I'll assume you're joking about HW. 😛 Twili Midna would play considerably different from Wolf Link & Midna. For starters, she wouldn't be as fast as Wolf Link. She could use the Twilight Mirror much like in HW. Or they could give her more TP items like the Dominion Rod and Spinner.
  • Half the characters in Smash aren't normally fighters. Doesn't mean Linebeck can't have a good moveset. Hiding in a crate or barrel could be his D Special.
  • I pictured the Champions as a rotating team. But their spells could probably be given to Link or Zelda, maybe worked in as Custom Specials.

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27 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:
  • Were it up to me, Impa would be the base, and Sheik would be the Echo or Semiclone.
  • That's the clever part: Classic Zelda would use a Magic Rod as her main weapon. And what item appears in Turtle Rock in LA? 😉
  • A supporting character with more moveset potential than Fox and Falcon. And Darunia wouldn't be the only supporting character in Smash: Bowser, Jr., Rosalina & Luma, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, Isabelle...
  • Nabooru could use the Silver Gauntlets to pick up and throw boulders, like Link does. Plus it makes sense that she'd use them to swing that big, heavy axe around.
  • It didn't have to, just being an item from the Zelda series is enough. Besides, Malon has appeared in other games: MM, OoS, FSA, and TMC. Even without the whip, she could use farm tools as weapons, like the Pitchfork and Farming Hoe as seen in BotW. In fact, I like the idea of Malon with a Pitchfork. Maybe add a bucket as well? She could even use Cuccos and horses somewhere in her moveset!
  • I'll assume you're joking about HW. 😛 Twili Midna would play considerably different from Wolf Link & Midna. For starters, she wouldn't be as fast as Wolf Link. She could use the Twilight Mirror much like in HW. Or they could give her more TP items like the Dominion Rod and Spinner.
  • Half the characters in Smash aren't normally fighters. Doesn't mean Linebeck can't have a good moveset. Hiding in a crate or barrel could be his D Special.
  • I pictured the Champions as a rotating team. But their spells could probably be given to Link or Zelda, maybe worked in as Custom Specials.

…Only now did I realize you meant, "Hyrule Warriors" when you kept saying HW. I'm not good with acronym-based-references, and I never played Hyrule Warriors. 

Edited by vanguard333

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22 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Ravio as a Classic Link costume could work. In fact, that would probably be best.

As someone who actually kind of wants Ravio in Smash, I don't think he should be a costume of Link at all. One of the main reasons why Ravio is one of my top picks for a Zelda newcomer is because even though he's technically another version of Link, he has tons of moveset potential. Since Ravio sells Link the items he can use in A Link Between Worlds, he has tons of moveset potential with some of the items that Link doesn't use in Smash, such as the hammer for his Smash attacks and the Elemental Rods for his specials. Having Ravio just be a Link costume would be really underwhelming.

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14 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

As someone who actually kind of wants Ravio in Smash, I don't think he should be a costume of Link at all. One of the main reasons why Ravio is one of my top picks for a Zelda newcomer is because even though he's technically another version of Link, he has tons of moveset potential. Since Ravio sells Link the items he can use in A Link Between Worlds, he has tons of moveset potential with some of the items that Link doesn't use in Smash, such as the hammer for his Smash attacks and the Elemental Rods for his specials. Having Ravio just be a Link costume would be really underwhelming.

True. But, as an alternate Link, were he to be unveiled as a separate fighter, he would likely be met with angry fans complaining that there are too many Links in Smash Bros. Sigh… 

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2 hours ago, Gregster101 said:

As someone who actually kind of wants Ravio in Smash, I don't think he should be a costume of Link at all. One of the main reasons why Ravio is one of my top picks for a Zelda newcomer is because even though he's technically another version of Link, he has tons of moveset potential. Since Ravio sells Link the items he can use in A Link Between Worlds, he has tons of moveset potential with some of the items that Link doesn't use in Smash, such as the hammer for his Smash attacks and the Elemental Rods for his specials. Having Ravio just be a Link costume would be really underwhelming.

Incidentally, I was thinking Classic Zelda would fight using a Magic Rod as her main weapon, and would use the Fire, Ice, Tornado, and Sand Rods as her specials (though the Cane of Somaria could take the place of the Sand Rod). >_> But I concur that Ravio would work well with the Hammer as his main weapon, since the poor bloke doesn't get his own sword.

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3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

True. But, as an alternate Link, were he to be unveiled as a separate fighter, he would likely be met with angry fans complaining that there are too many Links in Smash Bros. Sigh… 

You do realize not everyone's played A Link Between Worlds right? And Ravio is technically his own character too

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44 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

You do realize not everyone's played A Link Between Worlds right? And Ravio is technically his own character too

Do I need to put (PS I am making a joke) in brackets every time? Am I doing something wrong? I thought I had made it clear this time that I was just making a joke.

Seriously, it was just a joke; not a serious point. I think you made a good point that Ravio could work with all the different items he has in A Link Between Worlds. For an Up Special, he has the Tornado Rod (and item which, no joke, I kept forgetting about after completing the dungeon that relied on it, so I kept using timing to kill the birds in the desert rather than use it). He has the Ice Rod, Fire Rod, Hammer, Sand Rod, Bow, Boomerang, Bombs, and for items outside his shop, there's the Pegasus Boots, Net, Lamp, and of course his bracelet. 

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I've been thinking about Pikmin's representation recently and while I think its pretty good for a series with only four games, I think the musical representation is a bit lacking. There are only two tracks from Pikmin 2 and they're both remixes of the same song, and Pikmin 3 has three tracks based on two songs. I would add:

The only other change I could think of is making Alph or Louie an Echo Fighter and giving Olimar eight palettes like everyone else.

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17 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

I've been thinking about Pikmin's representation recently and while I think its pretty good for a series with only four games, I think the musical representation is a bit lacking. There are only two tracks from Pikmin 2 and they're both remixes of the same song, and Pikmin 3 has three tracks based on two songs. I would add:

The only other change I could think of is making Alph or Louie an Echo Fighter and giving Olimar eight palettes like everyone else.

Alph was planned to be in his own slot from Olimar in Smash 4 after all the other clones were separated from their original characters, and he would have used Rock Pikmin. Sadly this didn't happen cuz of time constraints.

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2 hours ago, Gregster101 said:

Alph was planned to be in his own slot from Olimar in Smash 4 after all the other clones were separated from their original characters, and he would have used Rock Pikmin. Sadly this didn't happen cuz of time constraints.

Alph wasn't even fortunate enough to become an Echo in Ultimate even though he just needs unique taunts and victory poses to justify being one. He's shorter than Olimar in canon so seeing him with Olimar's proportions is rather strange looking. Poor Alph. I've secretly wanted Louie to get in as a clone since the Brawl days so I wouldn't mind him being an Echo either.

And as another thing, Olimar and Alph should get their voices too. I mean, they never speak English but their voices are quite distinctive; you might be surprised by how deep Olimar's voice is. They should give Isabelle her Animalese too while they're at it.

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