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Darkmoon6789

What Edelgard means to me…

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11 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

In an effort to be consistent, then I should probably also say that Rhea and Edelgard are actually remarkably similar in that they are both conquerors who believed they fought for a just cause. But their ideology is polar opposite. Rhea stands for strict hierarchies justified by divine right and strict religious control and suppression of technology in order to prevent what happened in the past from happening again. Edelgard stands for the abolishment of blood-based hierarchy, secularism and technological progress. Heck, the two might even be related. The library books certainly seems to imply that, if you read the entry on house Hresvelg. 

I also think the the war that preceded the founding of Faergus was no more justified than Edelgard's war. It is basically the same thing. There was even Agarthan support involved

Yeah, they are similar, though I disagree that Rhea fought for purely righteous reasons, if there was even any righteousness involved. I mean, she admits herself that she had been clinging to a desperate desire for revenge for what happened to her. Her stabbing Nemesis to death was for what he did to her, personally, and not what he did to the world. 

Rhea ended up wanting peace afterward, but at the cost of humanity's freedom. Edelgard fought for the freedom of humanity to be able to rule over themselves. That they don't need to be ruled over by gods. They are similar, but believe in different things. 

And yes. People like to justify Loog or try to make up that they were fighting for freedom or the Empire was being bad or something. Again, it's just as unjustified as Edelgard's war. The entire concept of trying to preach morality and that they are wrong means they need to go back and say that Loog was wrong to create Faerghus. Rhea was wrong to go start a 66-year long war. 

Trying to say that there's even a "peaceful" way requires people to try and act in regards to meta knowledge. In my thread, it makes no realistic sense as to why they would talk to one another. 

For Edelgard especially, trust is a luxury that was no longer affordable. Not when it was her own uncle that had a heel-faced turn and suddenly became a mole man.

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6 hours ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

I am also happy to find people who like Edelgard. It also broke my heart to go against her on the silver snow route, and still I was captivated by her words in the 2 animations she has after time skip. Like me I like to think that at the end of that route Byleth uses his divine pulse, and goes back time 5 years ago to support his beloved girl 😜

When I acquire the DLC, I plan to follow Claude's route and replay the crimson flower route. From spoilers, I already know what happens in Azure Moon. I have a lot of love and respect for Edelgard, I would not have the heart to play that version of the story.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Edelgard's story and background is enough and very compelling for me. The problem was Rhea and Thales, and she solved it. There are questionable methods, but it is what happens in a world similar to the medieval one. Many criticize her for the issue of war, but history shows that in many cases war served for better change. And the end of it goes according to my ideas. Technological progress, free knowledge and individual freedoms have been shown to be what brings people well-being.

Honestly, when it comes to Azure Moon , I do find the claims of how evil Edelgard supposedly was in that route to be a great exaggeration now that I have played it, she is no more evil here than anywhere else. But the final mission was still very emotionally difficult to get through for other reasons. 

I do consider this route to be a tragedy and a really emotionally compelling one, it is my second favourite in the game, there are also a couple of really scenes between Dimitri and Edelgard as children that doesn't show in Crimson Flower. Which helps you understand Edelgard even further. If combined with what you find out in Crimson Flower. So I would recommend playing it anyway. If you can somehow stomach it. 

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1 hour ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

If she receives hate, but also a lot of love. For something she won CYL4 😀

I think that Edelgard kind of represents a fundamental truth that a lot of people have trouble accepting, which is the reason they hate her. That is that sometimes there aren't any good options and that a good person sometimes needs to sully their hands in doing something that isn't entirely morally righteous in order to pursue the greater good. 

But of course most who do like Edelgard like her to an even more intense degree because of the controversy I believe. One of the reasons I am so defensive about her is that I do believe she is frequently misunderstood and I want to correct that misunderstanding whenever I can.

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1 hour ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I think that Edelgard kind of represents a fundamental truth that a lot of people have trouble accepting, which is the reason they hate her. That is that sometimes there aren't any good options and that a good person sometimes needs to sully their hands in doing something that isn't entirely morally righteous in order to pursue the greater good. 

But of course most who do like Edelgard like her to an even more intense degree because of the controversy I believe. One of the reasons I am so defensive about her is that I do believe she is frequently misunderstood and I want to correct that misunderstanding whenever I can.

Yeah. There were quite a few people that were just saying that they would be okay if Edelgard just DIDN'T start the war. 

But that's literally stating that they just want someone ELSE to take the blame, the fall, etc. Have someone ELSE start the war and then Edelgard is fine. 

So basically, they just want someone ELSE to be at start something just so that your side can capitalize on it. Which is exactly what Claude does. 

This is literally the equivalent of KIDS that say, "THEY STARTED IT!"

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12 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah. There were quite a few people that were just saying that they would be okay if Edelgard just DIDN'T start the war. 

But that's literally stating that they just want someone ELSE to take the blame, the fall, etc. Have someone ELSE start the war and then Edelgard is fine. 

So basically, they just want someone ELSE to be at start something just so that your side can capitalize on it. Which is exactly what Claude does. 

This is literally the equivalent of KIDS that say, "THEY STARTED IT!"

Think you hit the nail on the head of why I don't like Claude as much as I do Edelgard, Edelgard at least has the balls to actually take responsibility for her actions. Claude essentially hangs on the coattails of another, let them take the blame and claim all the glory. Granted, Claude is usually somewhat friendly towards Edelgard, so I hope he would at least not completely demonise her in written history.

Do you think that Dimitri in his route would give Edelgard the respect she deserves? He kind of of said to her, for even being able to make a society of his own design

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25 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

Think you hit the nail on the head of why I don't like Claude as much as I do Edelgard, Edelgard at least has the balls to actually take responsibility for her actions. Claude essentially hangs on the coattails of another, let them take the blame and claim all the glory. Granted, Claude is usually somewhat friendly towards Edelgard, so I hope he would at least not completely demonise her in written history.

Do you think that Dimitri in his route would give Edelgard the respect she deserves? He kind of of said to her, for even being able to make a society of his own design

It's rather annoying how he was MEANT to be more morally grey, but even the devs admit that they ended up making him too much of a good guy. But in the end, he didn't actually attempt diplomacy, but immediately used the war for his own benefit by gathering the Knights of Seiros and the Alliance to have Byleth lead so that he can fulfill his own beliefs. He's basically the pretender. 

But no matter the route, Edelgard WILL be viewed as a villain. History will view her to be someone that spilled the blood of her people for some selfish purpose or such. Doesn't matter if people try to say she wasn't evil or such, because history cannot accept Edelgard as a "decent" person.

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28 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's rather annoying how he was MEANT to be more morally grey, but even the devs admit that they ended up making him too much of a good guy. But in the end, he didn't actually attempt diplomacy, but immediately used the war for his own benefit by gathering the Knights of Seiros and the Alliance to have Byleth lead so that he can fulfill his own beliefs. He's basically the pretender. 

But no matter the route, Edelgard WILL be viewed as a villain. History will view her to be someone that spilled the blood of her people for some selfish purpose or such. Doesn't matter if people try to say she wasn't evil or such, because history cannot accept Edelgard as a "decent" person.

Well, at least in Crimson flower I believe she will be remembered well. Don't you think Dimitri would have some kind of influence in his route in how history is written, considering he is the supreme ruler of Fodlan. I think Dimitri in the end was able to see Edelgard as more than just a monster. I think that is part of the point of his character arc. The question is if his word will be enough.

Also, I think part of the problem is that I don't actually see Claude attempt anything at all, let alone diplomacy, in fact, no one really does take action except for Edelgard, even Rhea seem to be content with doing nothing while the world crumbles. If you don't count obsessing over reviving her mother as a solution, it probably is in her mind, I don't even know if Sothis would even want to become the divine despot that she expects from her

Edit: at the very least, I imagine that Edelgard would make some kind of monument to show respect to Dimitri at the place of his death In Crimson Flower

Edited by Darkmoon6789

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For me Edelgard is the protagonist and antagonist, but never a villain. I can understand and it seems valid to me that playing the Azure Moon routes and
Verdant Wind people agree and support the views of Dimitri and Claude, and are against Edelgard's methods. What I cannot understand is that by playing both Crisom Flower and Silver Snow, people come to the final conclusion that Rhea's point of view is valid and respectable. For me it would be a reactionary way of thinking (which is against change, in favor of traditions and old institutions).

I also disagree in a post I read that said that Edelgard and Sasuke are a bit the same. In most of his personal arc, Sasuke's move is revenge. Edelgard's motivations are different, never revenge.

I don't understand Dimitri very much either, and his obsession with Edelgard. He never caught my attention, he had an acceptable personality at first, and then on the crimson flower and silver snow routes he seems to me a self-conscious and insecure type. Instead my Edelgard, she never loses her powerful personality nor does she lose sight of her goals. I will have to play Azure Moon to understand Dimitri a bit 😒

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42 minutes ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

For me Edelgard is the protagonist and antagonist, but never a villain. I can understand and it seems valid to me that playing the Azure Moon routes and
Verdant Wind people agree and support the views of Dimitri and Claude, and are against Edelgard's methods. What I cannot understand is that by playing both Crisom Flower and Silver Snow, people come to the final conclusion that Rhea's point of view is valid and respectable. For me it would be a reactionary way of thinking (which is against change, in favor of traditions and old institutions).

I also disagree in a post I read that said that Edelgard and Sasuke are a bit the same. In most of his personal arc, Sasuke's move is revenge. Edelgard's motivations are different, never revenge.

I don't understand Dimitri very much either, and his obsession with Edelgard. He never caught my attention, he had an acceptable personality at first, and then on the crimson flower and silver snow routes he seems to me a self-conscious and insecure type. Instead my Edelgard, she never loses her powerful personality nor does she lose sight of her goals. I will have to play Azure Moon to understand Dimitri a bit 😒

I can definitely feel sympathy towards Rhea to some extent, given what happened to her people, which is amazing in and of itself, given that she practices an ideology I absolutely despise. She is someone who literally fear change and want to keep everything the same by any means necessary, and she seems to be a supporter of an eye for an eye sort of justice which I also despise. She is also way more quick to execute people Edelgard, let's put it like this, if Rhea captured Edelgard she sure as hell wouldn't just keep her imprisoned for five years. Edelgard even spares one of the ringleaders of the insurrection and throws him in prison instead of executing him.

I think the Sasuke comparison, I think that mainly comes from the fact that the English voice actress of the Edelgard is apparently married to the English voice actor for Sasuke

I actually really like Dimitri as a character, even if I don't necessarily agree with him, he is either feral and sadistic to an extent that eclipses even the Death Knight or hopelessly naive. But I prefer him that way. In comparison to a regular goody two shoes. Dimitri really isn't well explained outside of his own route, I guess that also goes for Edelgard, which is why I consider it important to actually play Crimson flower before someone judge her actions. The thing with Edelgard is that in my opinion she never really did seek all that low, the worst things she is associated with she had nothing to do with and all. Like Remire village, there she didn't even seem to be aware that this was going to happen, how would someone blame her for something like this when it is obvious she literally had no involvement whatsoever. 

When you really think about it, what does the Flame Emperor even really do even really do in the first product, the game? Arranges the bandit attacks sure. But other than that, she essentially is only involved with the kidnapping of Flayn (even in that case she primarily just shows up at the end of information and tells the Death Knight not kill Byleth and friends. Other than that she only shows after Remire village to verify that she had nothing to do with it, as well as selling out of the location of the killer of Byleth's father in order to help them feel better after his murder (it seems to have taken the Edelgard by surprise as well). And then we have the holy tomb incident

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1 hour ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I can definitely feel sympathy towards Rhea to some extent, given what happened to her people, which is amazing in and of itself, given that she practices an ideology I absolutely despise. She is someone who literally fear change and want to keep everything the same by any means necessary, and she seems to be a supporter of an eye for an eye sort of justice which I also despise. She is also way more quick to execute people Edelgard, let's put it like this, if Rhea captured Edelgard she sure as hell wouldn't just keep her imprisoned for five years. Edelgard even spares one of the ringleaders of the insurrection and throws him in prison instead of executing him.

I think the Sasuke comparison, I think that mainly comes from the fact that the English voice actress of the Edelgard is apparently married to the English voice actor for Sasuke

I actually really like Dimitri as a character, even if I don't necessarily agree with him, he is either feral and sadistic to an extent that eclipses even the Death Knight or hopelessly naive. But I prefer him that way. In comparison to a regular goody two shoes. Dimitri really isn't well explained outside of his own route, I guess that also goes for Edelgard, which is why I consider it important to actually play Crimson flower before someone judge her actions. The thing with Edelgard is that in my opinion she never really did seek all that low, the worst things she is associated with she had nothing to do with and all. Like Remire village, there she didn't even seem to be aware that this was going to happen, how would someone blame her for something like this when it is obvious she literally had no involvement whatsoever. 

When you really think about it, what does the Flame Emperor even really do even really do in the first product, the game? Arranges the bandit attacks sure. But other than that, she essentially is only involved with the kidnapping of Flayn (even in that case she primarily just shows up at the end of information and tells the Death Knight not kill Byleth and friends. Other than that she only shows after Remire village to verify that she had nothing to do with it, as well as selling out of the location of the killer of Byleth's father in order to help them feel better after his murder (it seems to have taken the Edelgard by surprise as well). And then we have the holy tomb incident

If there are any controversial points. If you choose Edelgard from the beginning, and you get to chapter 11, there are things that happen and you are left with WTF. Edelgard says to remove anyone who gets in the way (of stealing the stones). The question remains whether it was to eliminate or neutralize her colleagues. Then when Byleth makes the decision to support Edelgard, I see it as a combination of a little bit of everything (reasoning and a little bit of faith). Byleth's dad told him that he won't trust Rhea, we also have the executions without trial and his conversations with Edelgard and Rhea, so we have that Byleth feels that it is ethical to support Edel, and that she later explained some things to him .

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