Please help; Driven Mad by Maddening

[Diego Brando Mtg]

Hey all,

I’ve been using this site for a while for general stats/class info and stuff, and I’d like to think that I have a generally good understanding of the game.

 

however

 

after around 10 attempts, 4 of which I reached the final map on (2 azure moon, 2 Crimson Flower) I still cannot beat NG maddening. I’ve been using dlc Boosters, units, classes, battalions, additional paralogues, those online spirit things, hell I did my last run on casual, but I just can’t seem to get more than 2 or 3 units to a point where they’re useful.

So, before I inevitably restart again,  I wanted to try and retrace my steps on my latest run, to see where I went wrong. Before I get to team comp, I’d like to admit to three big mistakes i know i’m making.

1: spending too much time on the supports and paired endings aspect. I need to save that for normal and hard runs (or ng+). 
 

2: overusing warp skipping (especially in BL). I feel like this probably led to my units being woefully underleveled for the final confrontation.

3: I’m stone cold broke cuz I spent all my money on things to trade for renown for the wayseer (see problem 1). Luckily I had enough to fix up most of my weapons for the fight, but yeah. Budget is non existent

 

but anyways, heres what I’m working with

Byleth: lvl 38 Wyvern lord 

hp 55

Str: 35

Mag: 18

Dex: 25

spd: 28

lck: 25

def: 20

res: 17

cha: 42

Abilities equipped

Alert Stance

lancebreaker

axe prowess 4

hp +5

death blow

 

inventory is sublime sword, hexlock shield, killer, steel, and training axe (all +)

Arts are smash, helm splitter, and wrath strike (no better one to use :/)

battalion: cichil wyvern co (5)

Pretty Certain I went wrong here. Got relatively early wyvern lord despite not having req. lvls. I recruited every unit, so likely my lack of focus killed this one. But yeah, poor stats and a poor understanding of how much time I should be spending in certain classes was bad.

 

Dmitri: lvl 39 great lord (masters halfway thru map)

Hp 63

mv 9 (dlc shoes)

str 38

mag 14

dex 27

spd 31

lck 19

def 26

res 11

cha 36

Abilities:

battallion wrath

lance prowess 5

mv +1

swordbreaker

lance crit +10

inventory is silver shield, spear of assal, lance of ruin, brave lance, areadbhar, scythe of sariel.

arts are tempest lance, knightkneeler, glowing ember.

battalion is blue lion knights 5

Dmitri can crit p easily, and tanks alright, but can’t orko, so I need to soften units up beforehand, which can be a pain. Overall a little dissapointing for a lord, but far from my worst unit

 

Lysithea: lvl 40 dark flier (certed for gremory)

hp: 36

str 11

mag 42

dex 37

spd 37

lck 14

def 13

res 22

cha 23

abilities

reason 5

dark mag range +1

mag+2

fiendish blow

alert stance

inventory is thrysius

art is draw back

battalion is Nuvelle Fliers Corps 5

lysithea has been a beast, but at the same time hasn’t been orkoing enemies like in previous runthroughs. I believe I spent too much time in dark flier (no mag growths), but canto and thrysius are a hell of a drug

 

Constance: lvl 38 war cleric

hp 44

str 31

mag 37

dex 21

spd 14

lck 14

def 16

res 17

cha 20

abilities:

brawl 5

reason 5

fiendish blow

brawl avo +20

miracle (I know I know)

arts are mystic blow (woohoo) healing focus, fading blow and pneuma gale

inventory is aura knuckles +, training gauntlets +, silver gauntlets, vajra mushti, magic staff and crusher.

battalion is Leicester Dicers Corps 5

i make no apologies for this one. Mystic blow is so strong early/mid game and she can still orko p much anyone late game with aura knuckles. She’s also great with rescue, which has been a bonus. 
 

Marianne: lvl 39 dancer

hp 46

str 12

mag 35

dex 21

spd 26

lck 22

def 9

res 28

cha 38

abilities:

defensive tactics

battalion renewal

faith 4

reason 1

special Dance

arts are wrath strike, sword dance, soulblade

inventory is levin sword and healing staff

battalion: seiros holy monks (stride)

my best healer by far, I never use marianne offensively (as I have in other runs with blutgang), I wish I had just had Yuri cert for dancer to get sword avoid tbh, cuz I feel I missed out on a Great bishop. speaking of Yuri...

Yuri

lvl 43 Assassin

HP 46

str 36

mag 24

dex 33

spd 53

lck 33

def 24

res 21

cha 28

abilities

sword prowess 5

swordfaire

sword crit 10

vantage

duelist’s blow

arts

finesse blade, windsweep (never used)

deadeye (to aggro enemies)

inventory

rapier +, wo dao +, thunderbrand, training bow +, sword of zoltan, fetters of dromri

battalion: brigid hunters 5 (get that avo)

my best unit and hard carry, nothing hits yuri, but yuri hits hard. High crit and stupid speed means he rarely loses a combat. Idk what classes I should maybe have taken him through tho, cuz I can see duelists blow and vantage being overkill. Canto is stupid good on him, also.

annette: lvl 13 noble (woops)

hp 34. All else irrelevant 
literally there to fill out the roster and be a rally bot, unfortunately cuz shes squishy af she cant get in hegemongard’s range, so she’s just useless. She does have blue lion dancers and rally str spd and res.

 

hapi: lvl 37 valkyrie (certed in gremory)

hp 39

str 19

mag 31

Dex 25

spd 20

lck 17

def 16

res 30

cha 20

abilities:

fiendish blow

uncanny blow

move +1

reason 5

dark mag range +1

arts: tempest lance and draw back

inventory: caduceus staff

battalion: timotheus magi corps

great utility unit, but heals for shit. Banshee and canto and warp are really good tho, so idk whether to use her in this or gremory.

 

Hilda, Hilda, Hilda: lvl 37 wyvern lord

hp 65

str 35

mag 15

dex 21

spd 31

lck 21

def 28

res 14

cha 32

abilities

darting blow

death blow

alert stance +

lancebreaker

Axe prowess 5

arts: Helm splitter, smash, diamond axe

 inventory: seiros shield, freikugel, brave axe, training and iron axe +, silver axe

battalion: galatea pegasus co.

no complaints here. Very solid, got her up to B authority and it was worth it. She came with c+ lance so all I had to do was raise axe a lil then focus flying and auth. Darting blow will let her orko

 

Bernadetta: lvl 39 sniper/bow knight

hp 57 (i really wanted vengeance to work and it kinda has)

str 31

mag 14

dex 39

spd 27

lck 24

def 26

res 22

cha 21

abilities

bow crit 10

bow 5

close counter

move +1

hit +20

arts: encloser, vengeance, deadeye, and hunters volley if sniper.

inventory: failnaught, accuracy ring, iron bow +, silver bow, iron lance +, luin

battalion: goneril valkyries

great utility unit, I think she’s better as a sniper with hapi around. That said I could go either class. Generally been good for me whole game.

 

caspar (I was surprised too) lvl 39 war master

hp 64

str 38

mag 17

dex 22

spd 26

luck 25

def 22

res 12

cha 18

abilities

axe 3

brawl 5

lancebreaker

battalion wrath

quick riposte

arts: bombard, mighty blow, healing focus, war master’s strike.

inventory: short axe, crit ring, killer knuckles, silver gauntlets, and training gauntlets all +, and silver axe

battalion: bergliez war group

recruited him at the last possible day, said “fuck it I’ll try it” for battle at garreg mach, and I’ve  been switching between him and hapi/felix for the 10th slot. He’s a crit machine, tho in future I likely want Ferdinand or sylvain over him.

to round it all out...

felix: lvl 36 war master/wyvern lord 

hp 57

str 38

mag 17

dex 20

spd 32

lck 23

def 18

res 13

cha 15

abilities:

lancebreaker

death blow

brawl 3

axe 5

hp+5

arts: helm splitter, smash, nimble combo

inventory: iron axe, killer axe, and hand axe all +, silver gaunts, axe of ukonvasara, and crit ring.

battalion is king if lions corps.

felix has consistently been slinging massive amounts of damage around. His class is map dependant, but I’ve had him in war master for a fair bit now. 
 

anyways, thats my team. What things am I missing? What am I overvaluing. What am I underrating? Please help before I go insane.

 

many thanks!

[LoneStar]

Wow looks like you got stat screwed with some of your units. My level 26 Wyvern Rider Byleth has similar stats, outside of HP and Str, to yours.

I'm currently doing an AM Maddening run, so I'm not sure what your struggling with. I'm making all of my base characters usable and haven't been Warp skipping stuff (because I can't until Manuela and Hapi get it).

Most of your units look fine, but I think Dark Knight for the extra power would be good on Hapi since you have Magic Range  +1. It sucks when Lysithea misses out on kills. I had to make use of Defiant Magic in my SS Maddening run with her. I guess you're dodge tanking with Yuri, but you might want to make use of stuff like Sacred Shield, Impregnable Wall, and Blessing , if that is an issue.

Yeah you probably don't want to waste too much time with the extra stuff in this mode. I already beat NG SS Maddening, which has an annoying but not really difficult final map. I know that the AM final map has some powerful War Masters and Edelgard being annoying. Hopefully I won't struggle going forward in my AM run.

 

 

[eclipse]

So, if you think it's a numbers issue. . .

1. See the garden?  Use it.  Use it a lot.  Make stat-boosting fruits, and give them to your units.
2. Do a bit of fishing - enough to fuel your stat-boosting foods.  Yes, it's an activity slot at the beginning of the month, but it's a universal boost.
3. How are you using your battalions?  What are your Authority levels like?
4. Consider turning one of Constance/Dorothea into a Gremory, because most enemies can't counter a max-range Bolting/Meteor.
5. Mercedes is an extremely good healer, so if your issue is staying alive, she will fix that.  Quickly.
6. If your want Byleth to kill things, get rid of that Hexlock Shield, and use something that boosts his/her offense.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

Not using the invincible Dedue? That is unfortunate. It's never a bad idea to take units through War Master for that sexy Quick Riposte. They can grab Brawl Avoid and Alert Stance for maximum effectiveness. This is particularly true for Byleth, with his mighty Charm stat. Honestly, your team doesn't look bad. It might just come down to how you're playing. I'll give you an easy sample build that should definitely help out on AM.

Felix - Swordmaster

Sword Avoid (yes, you'll be without a Dancer)

Alert Stance+

Sword Crit

Worldwide

Sword 5

Give him the Chalice of Beginning to hold and watch him melt away all the Meteor mages, as well as turn one kill on My son. If you really want him as a Dancer, it could work, but that little bit of crit and damage can go a long way. Do try to never level up IN the Dancer class, though.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Chalice of Beginning is really good in AM endgame. You don't really need to stack Avo or Res to make it work if you have someone who can use Vantage or Battalion Vantage. Dimitri happens to have the latter, and he should be able to cleanly one-shot the mages back.

Other than the mages (or if you weren't struggling with them at all), are there particular formations walling you on the map?

[Wishblade]

I don’t see any problem except the levels being a bit low. My maddening BL NG run before buying DLC was way more, ugh, interesting. I had Warlock Hilda, Warlock Ingrid, Great Knight Bernadetta (smite and battalion machine), Paladin Ashe (also battalion machine), etc.

Where’s Dedue? Don’t put him on the bench even if he fails to catch up. Put him next to Dimitri as a guard adjutant. +3mt is absolutely welcome. It also makes Dimitri a tank against endgame Warmasters (I had Aegis shield on him).

I had 2 Wyvern Lords on that run. Byleth and Annetta. Byleth was mimicking Claude as a wyvern archer (also ORKO’ed one of Hegemon’s health bar) and Annetta crushes everything into dust. Though WC!Constance and WL!Annetta perform similarly.

You may be missing out Grappler’s FIF. It’s way more consistent than Warmaster’s crit in a maddening run. Warmaster is imo a more defensive class than Grappler so it’s not a direct promotion.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Wishblade

[Diego Brando Mtg]

8 hours ago, eclipse said:

So, if you think it's a numbers issue. . .

1. See the garden?  Use it.  Use it a lot.  Make stat-boosting fruits, and give them to your units.
2. Do a bit of fishing - enough to fuel your stat-boosting foods.  Yes, it's an activity slot at the beginning of the month, but it's a universal boost.
3. How are you using your battalions?  What are your Authority levels like?
4. Consider turning one of Constance/Dorothea into a Gremory, because most enemies can't counter a max-range Bolting/Meteor.
5. Mercedes is an extremely good healer, so if your issue is staying alive, she will fix that.  Quickly.
6. If your want Byleth to kill things, get rid of that Hexlock Shield, and use something that boosts his/her offense.

Yeah I never did the temp stat boosts. My battalions and authority levels are all p good, with everyone but felix having at least B. my issue with battalions rn is gambits (2 1 uses, chars with low charm). My main issue on the map has been, after baiting and clearing the entire map with yuri, and killing the meteor and bolting mages, the infinite reinforcements from the wings kill my units before I can kill edelgard

[Diego Brando Mtg]

3 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Chalice of Beginning is really good in AM endgame. You don't really need to stack Avo or Res to make it work if you have someone who can use Vantage or Battalion Vantage. Dimitri happens to have the latter, and he should be able to cleanly one-shot the mages back.

Other than the mages (or if you weren't struggling with them at all), are there particular formations walling you on the map?

My issue has been the infinite reinforcements that appear after you enter the throne room. I can kill the bolting and meteor mages, but have trouble clearing out the swarm of dark knights without losing some units

[LoneRecon400]

You should really consider using more Battalions with support Gambits, such as Kingdom Archers or Kingdom Armored Company. The Archers come with Retribution (Makes 6 units able counter attack on Enemy Phase regardless of distance for five turns) and the Armor Knights come with Impregnable Wall (Reduces all damage taken and given to 1 to three units for one turn), both which can really help clear the area and allow your weaker units to move up.  

But the biggest help on that map would undoubtably be the Sacred Shield Gambit on Kingdom Heavy Soldiers. That Gambit's description claims it only nullifies attacks made from ranged physical weapons for three units for one turn, but it actually also works with Magic. It even goes so far to null the attacks from Edelgard's final form at range. So when combined with retribution, a unit can easily destroy any mage that would try to attack from a distance.

A tip for the Dark Knight Reinforcements is it that while the siege mages are unblockable, you can prevent the Dark Knights from showing up by blocking the tile they show up on.

Edited March 20, 2020 by LoneRecon400

[Xylaugheon Daily]

34 minutes ago, Diego Brando Mtg said:

My issue has been the infinite reinforcements that appear after you enter the throne room. I can kill the bolting and meteor mages, but have trouble clearing out the swarm of dark knights without losing some units

I had my Felix (using the above build, minus the Chalice, as the DLC had not released at that point) blocking the enemies on the right, with Ferdinand (Bow Knight) and Petra (Wyvern Lord) cover the left. Didn't really struggle with that part at all, but I can see how it could be. You could always take advantage of using the magic ballista to chip and have another unit to pick up the kill.

[eclipse]

4 hours ago, Diego Brando Mtg said:

Yeah I never did the temp stat boosts. My battalions and authority levels are all p good, with everyone but felix having at least B. my issue with battalions rn is gambits (2 1 uses, chars with low charm). My main issue on the map has been, after baiting and clearing the entire map with yuri, and killing the meteor and bolting mages, the infinite reinforcements from the wings kill my units before I can kill edelgard

The little plus sign next to Quote enables Multiquote, so you don't post twice in a row.

Anyway, if your issue is Charm, might want to spend some time on tea parties during the game.  I think there's a dish that boosts Charm, albeit by 1 or something.  Still, better than nothing.

[JubileePhoenix]

Use the power of Bernie to her fullest Potential! You can do this by.... Deleting your save file, locking yourself away in your door, and never talking to any one ever again. To get Bernie's godly powers, first you must become Bernie. 

[Mavi251]

Bernie is definitely amazing as a Rider/Flier with Veng, she can easily OHK most foes when at 1hp with lances, especially considering the levels/stats of your Bernie. Don't bother using her as a Bow Unit when she's one of the few units who can reliably OHK Maddening Mode enemies with Veng. Azure Moon Final is easily her weakest map, though. If anything here is what I recommend: do a trial run of the map, see how enemies move and where your units can reach. Plan out your movement to control your enemy phase exposure and focus on taking down enemies without taking counters, when possible. Use things like Impenetrable Wall (it has 5 uses), which I feel is grossly underrated, to safely bait a group of enemies and clear them out on player phase. Guard adjutants and Blessing also help. End-game azure moon will definitely be a rough ride so perhaps consider using Dimitiri boosted with Retribution while using Battalion Wrath and Battalion vantage, a crit boosting battalion, and a Killer Lance+. He should be able to OHK lots of enemies without taking counters, especially if you use Dedue as a guard adjutant for the possible +3 (+9 on crit) damage. Worry less about clearing it and more about understanding how the map plays; the rest will come naturally. 

Crimson Flower Final is also a little tedious. I usually advance on the right side and move up towards Rhea, baiting and switching the enemies and Golems. To kill Rhea, consider using the Triangle Attack Combat Art (+8 Attack and +40 Crit) and Killer Weapons+ on Edlegard (after you exhaust the Amyr) and F!Byleth. This also works against Hegemon Edlegard. You can use another unit, preferably a flier, boosted with Impenetrable Wall to bait Rhea's attacks and AOE special away from your main attackers. I mean like literally using gambits then positioning your aggro pull above/to the north of Rhea so her AOE only hits the unit with the Impen. Wall active. Moreover, Combat Arts like Windsweep, Monster Breaker, and Bane of Monsters are excellent if you're going for an Armour Break; just don't go for it if she she's still at full armour and about to use her AOE. I've been able to clear New Game CF Maddening with no DLC in 12h 26mins using the final map strategy above; all of this without a single unit in their Master Class.

Combat Unit Bernie as a Peg Knight, assuming you've given her the HP stat boosters and she has the HP +5 skill, easily dispatches enemy Fliers, the Paladins, and Catherine/Cyril with Vengenace and the appropriate lances (Training Lance+ for the generics / Lance of Ruin for the mini-bosses). Edlegard can bonk the Armoured Units with the Axe of Zoltan and use Curved Shot to help kill enemy fliers when without taking counters. Byleth/Jeritiza can initiate with Windsweep to chip enemies into range of high-damage follow up attacks from Bernie/Edlegard/the other Windsweep user, if needed. I'll assume you have much more stuff than I usually do and also add that you're able to use the Thrysus to dispatch some of the armoured, as well. But you don't need to do any paralogues on CF maddening to clear it. Though Shamir and Alois' one-turnable paralogue is useful to get Bernie another Seraph Robe (+5 attack for Venge).

As a general rule of thumb, I try to have 2-4 dedicated combat units at most on Maddening, everyone else is utility and support. Item management and Linked Attacks are also to be considered; accuracy rings and each route's charm boosting item can go a long way when combined with other variables. Dorothea as a Dancer with Meteor is also amazing for Linked Attacks/Gambit boosts. I would also considering getting Hit +20 on your dedicated combat units to help them with their general reliability and offensive gambits. Don't feel bad about warp-skipping maps, either. Most of them on Maddening, regardless of route, are boring and tedious to play. Though you'll need to ensure that your combat units are in a position to carry you over the finish line. That said, you're more than able to finish the game with your current team, just keep on keeping on. Take breaks when needed and consider trying new strategies/gambits that accommodate for enemy movement and positioning. I know you can do it!

 

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

Azure Moon Final is easily her weakest map, though.

I thought that was Silver Snow Endgame (granted, we're not talking about that, but still). Too many Miracles, and a low HP strategy isn't what I'd advise when the enemy can just randomly screw you over with Miracle.

[Mavi251]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I thought that was Silver Snow Endgame (granted, we're not talking about that, but still). Too many Miracles, and a low HP strategy isn't what I'd advise when the enemy can just randomly screw you over with Miracle.

12 of the 42 (28.5%) generic units of the initial batch of enemies on SS Final have miracle. All of them except the Miracle Falcon Knights are easily dealt with with Brave Weapons after you chip them to low HP. Miracle cannot activate at 1HP so two attacks that are both fatal gets the job done. The Falcon Knights are an exception as they are mobile (8 Move flying enemies), pretty tanky (69+ HP, 37+ PRT, 40+ RSL), dodgy (68-83 Avoid), and hit back hard. They hit hard enough to ORKO everyone on your team in a fast play-through so without Gambits/Guard-adjutants no one can fight them safely on Enemy Phase; even most level 35-40 units risk getting ORKO'd without a setup meant to survive a round. Miracle is an annoying skill for sure but I think people make too big a deal of it on SS Final. 

Also, it's not Bernie vs. SS Final, it's Bernie and Friends vs. SS Final. Provided you stop the reinforcements on turn one (Impenetrable Wall + Warp and/or Stride does the trick) the map turns into a bait and switch fest until you're in a position to fight the final boss. It's not terribly difficult, just time consuming. By contrast, Venge Bernie risks dying out-right to Hegemon Edlegard on Azure Moon Final if you keep her on low hp, basically making Venge useless for the whole map whereas Venge Bernie can still dispatch non-Miracle enemies reliably on SS Final. She can immobilize enemies with Encloser as well, though I never bother getting her A-Rank bows. That's my take, anyways. SS Final Boss having Miracle for all of their HP phases after the first is honestly the worst part, imo. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Mavi251
Small spelling/grammar corrections for clarity.