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vanguard333

About Flayn's Parentage (Spoilers)

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Is she half-human?

We know she's a Nabatean, with Seteth aka Cichol as her father. But is she fully-Nabatean, or is she part-human?

We know her mother died in battle over a thousand years ago. Two things stood out to me that were mentioned about her: according to Flayn, Seteth first met his wife at a church in Enbarr, and the way Flayn and Seteth talk about her in their paralogue suggests that she knew she would likely be the first of them to die:

Flayn: We cannot turn back the clock, father. We must live our lives fully, in the present moment. 

Seteth: You're right. That is what she always said, isn't it?

Maybe I've watched Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood too many times, but that kind of stuff reminds me of the conversations between Hohenheim and Trisha Elric. 

Anyway, the third thing I want to point out is that Seteth and Flayn's reasons for hiding their identity have to do with Flayn's unique blood. If it solely had to do with Nabatean blood, then surely TWSITD would be after Seteth too, correct? But Seteth outright says, "There are many who would seek to harm Flayn due to the unique blood she bears", and Solon, when he reveals himself, says he was only after Flayn's blood. EDIT: Okay, so, as everyone's pointed out, they probably just went after Flayn because she's easier to capture. 

 

What do you think?

Edited by vanguard333

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Solon just went after Flayn specifically because she's naive and sheltered, making her an easier target to capture than Seteth or Rhea. 

As for her parentage, I think it's more likely that Seteth met a human for the first time in Enbarr than another Nabatean, so I personally assume Flayn's mother was human. Seteth and Flayn's A-support implies that she died in the Battle of Tailtean (the same battle where Seiros killed Nemesis), but we know that Nabateans can extend the lifespan of humans so it doesn't mean much.

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I think her mother was a Nabatean,

She has her own crests rather than inheriting Seteth’s. She was born long after Red Canyon, (Between -300 to -41 year pre empire) no other born this late was known to have unique crest.

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Her Crest was more unique, because there are very few (major) Crests of Cethleann around as far as I know. Cichols crest is way more common. At least that's what I remember.

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I always thought her mom was human, but now after reading this thread I don't know.

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9 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Anyway, the third thing I want to point out is that Seteth and Flayn's reasons for hiding their identity have to do with Flayn's unique blood. If it solely had to do with Nabatean blood, then surely TWSITD would be after Seteth too, correct? But Seteth outright says, "There are many who would seek to harm Flayn due to the unique blood she bears", and Solon, when he reveals himself, says he was only after Flayn's blood. 

If you set out to capture Seteth you need to....well, capture Seteth. Good luck with that. As Chaos said Flayn is a lot easier to get your hands on. 

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Yeah Cethleann and Cichol's crest are different, it is like fingerprints that nabeatans can pass down.

Also I am pretty sure she was human and I don't think it is confirmed either way. Only implied that she is most likely human.

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Flayn had the first unique crest of Cethleann so I think it's pretty reasonable to say that her mother was another Nabatean. We have seen no evidence that anything other than full blooded Nabateans can have unique crests after all. As for why TWSITD went after Flayn instead of Seteth, well, for one Seteth is Seteth and is way less likely to be able to be captured, and two Flayn's blood has unique healing properties where Seteth's doesn't. That may have also been what they were after, though that's just a theory.

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There’s not enough evidence either way, but it is weird that there is absolutely no mention of her in any lore. What makes a saint, exactly?

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9 hours ago, Hauke said:

Her Crest was more unique, because there are very few (major) Crests of Cethleann around as far as I know. Cichols crest is way more common. At least that's what I remember.

According to Hanneman, Seteth is actually the sole known bearer ever of a Major Crest of Cichol.

Quote

Hanneman: I am quite tempted by the offer, but your cooperation would be of much greater value. Your Crest, the Major Crest of Cichol, is so rare. As far as I am aware, Seteth, you are the only person ever confirmed to bear that particular Crest. How did you come to possess it?

As for the topic at hand, there's too little to make a solid theory but the fact that he meet her in Enbarr doesn't mean much, after all he went in Enbarr aswell and there's no reason another Nabatean wouldn't went before him, specially since we know they weren't all created in the same time. Additionally, the way Cethleann talk about her in her A support with Cichol, imply that her mother was different from others aswell.

Quote

Even if it cannot last, I want to live among my peers as one of them—as an ordinary person. Similar to how you and Mother coexisted with your own comrades back then, fighting side by side.

As for what you quoted, i don't understand how it really stand out, living one life fully is a rather normal life philosophy and it's even more important since they were participating in a war were good moments must have been sparse, especially for Nabateans since they would carry regrets for milleniums.

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9 hours ago, Soroen said:

As for the topic at hand, there's too little to make a solid theory but the fact that he meet her in Enbarr doesn't mean much, after all he went in Enbarr aswell and there's no reason another Nabatean wouldn't went before him, specially since we know they weren't all created in the same time. Additionally, the way Cethleann talk about her in her A support with Cichol, imply that her mother was different from others aswell.

I believe in Silver Snow Seteth mentioned Rhea gathered all surviving Nabatean in Enbarr as a rally point before attacking Nemesis, so it doesn't support either side of the theory.

 

9 hours ago, Soroen said:

Even if it cannot last, I want to live among my peers as one of them—as an ordinary person. Similar to how you and Mother coexisted with your own comrades back then, fighting side by side.

The way I read it, she said "you and Mother coexisted with your own comrades" rather than "You coexisted with mother and your comrades" making it to me that her mother should be Nabatean.

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Flayn's Crest of Cethleann doesn't prove much, since we don't know how Nabatean reproduction works. I believe Flayn is unique, as the only confirmed child of at least one Nabatean (Rhea and Seteth's parentage is unclear). As such, it's possible that every Nabatean is born with a unique Major Crest, independent of the Crest(s) of their parents. In this case. Flayn's mother could just as easily be human (and Crestless), as Nabatean (and Crested).

If, on the other hand, Nabatean Crest-inheritance happens the same way as it does in humans, then Flayn's mother must have borne (or descended from someone who bore) a Crest of Cethleann. In this case, the simplest explanation would be that she, too, was a Nabatean, with a Crest of Cethleann. Alternatively, she could be a human descendant of a human who got blood with the Crest of Cethleann in it. But it seems very unlikely that there would have been blood transfers generations before Flayn was born.

Also, note that Flayn's aging appears to be slowed down significantly. She exhibits no change through the timeskip, and even if we take for granted that she didn't age during her "thousand-year-slumber", we have to acknowledge that she was already revered as a Saint (and one of Seiros' most trusted allies) before this slumber began. Which suggests she had already lived quite some time, and become accomplished, before the battles against Nemesis. This makes me lean toward her being full-blooded Nabatean - if she were half-human, she'd probably age somewhat faster than Rhea or Seteth (but slower than full-blooded humans). Then again, without any confirmed Nabatean-human hybrids, we can't say for sure.

Bottom-line, I lean toward Flayn's mother having been Nabatean, but I won't say it's impossible that she was human. I find yhe former more plausible, but the latter more romantic. 

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Typo.

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2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Flayn's Crest of Cethleann doesn't prove much, since we don't know how Nabatean reproduction works. I believe Flayn is unique, as the only confirmed child of at least one Nabatean (Rhea and Seteth's parentage is unclear). As such, it's possible that every Nabatean is born with a unique Major Crest, independent of the Crest(s) of their parents. In this case. Flayn's mother could just as easily be human (and Crestless), as Nabatean (and Crested).

If, on the other hand, Nabatean Crest-inheritance happens the same way as it does in humans, then Flayn's mother must have borne (or descended from someone who bore) a Crest of Cethleann. In this case, the simplest explanation would be that she, too, was a Nabatean, with a Crest of Cethleann. Alternatively, she could be a human descendant of a human who got blood with the Crest of Cethleann in it. But it seems very unlikely that there would have been blood transfers generations before Flayn was born.

Also, note that Flayn's aging appears to be slowed down significantly. She exhibits no change through the timeskip, and even if we take for granted that she didn't age during her "thousand-year-slumber", we have to acknowledge that she was already revered as a Saint (and one of Seiros' most trusted allies) before this slumber began. Which suggests she had already lived quite some time, and become accomplished, before the battles against Nemesis. This makes me lean toward her being full-blooded Nabatean - if she were half-human, she'd probably age somewhat faster than Rhea or Seteth (but slower than full-blooded humans). Then again, without any confirmed Nabatean-human hybrids, we can't say for sure.

Bottom-line, I lean toward Flayn's mother having been Nabatean, but I won't say it's impossible that she was human. I find yhe former more plausible, but the latter more romantic. 

Maybe spoilers?

If I'm not mistaken, Sothis isn't particularly shown to need anyone else to reproduce, was she? I think she could do so asexually? As all original Nabateans are descended from her directly, afaik. So anyone with a unique crest is a direct descendant of Sothis, having inherited a spin-off version of her Crest of Flames, which would imply(! not prove, just imply) Flayn's mother would be the original bearer of the Crest of Cethleann(but obviously, she's forgotten, and history named Cethleann's crest after her rather than her mother, who is forgotten by all, including the Church by Rhodos Coast who worships Seteth), but that last part is more based on conclusions than facts.

But the fact that Sothis created all Nabateans from her blood is more or less a fact, however. It doesn't specify if her blood turned regular humans into Nabateans or if she just made people though. I think this was from GD/Church+a bit of Rhea's supports/story dialogue?

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Now, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but one more thing that makes me think Flayn's mother might've been human: she isn't remembered as a saint. Remember: she was heavily involved in the war too, and she died in the very same battle where Flayn was injured and needed to sleep to recover afterward. So, if she were Nabatean, why wasn't she remembered as a saint like Macuil, Indech, Seiros, and her own husband and daughter? She even gave her life during the conflict; if anything, there should be be more memory of her. 

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We don't know if she is or not, Noa being a Saint was only mentionned in the throwaway flavor text of a fruit and the others Apostles were only mentionned in DLC. It's very possible that the Church have others Saints we simply don't know about.

Besides, legends about the Saints could easily have been warped, lost or ignored (Bernadetta barely knew a thing about Indech despite bearing his Crest) and i don't see why would she be cast out of the Church legends for being a human.

Also we know that Cichol and his family lived in Enbarr before meeting Seiros, so if she really died in the Battle of Tailtean that mean she lived at least from -41 to 91 that's 132 years, and while it's possible she could've received blood from a Nabatean, it seems unlikely Cichol would do so if not needed. If we consider the start of the War of Heroes for her transfussion, - 41 to 32, it's still 73 years old were she would have aged and become unsuitable for the frontline.

And the most important argument who imply that Flayn's mother was a Nabatean, is the fact that Flayn is from a different subspecies that her father, with said subspecies not seeming connected in any way.

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About Saints, here are some of my thoughts

It seems to me that Saint title was only created some time later, maybe long after the war since all other named but dead Nabateans were not given the title.

 

And with Soroen on the other "saints", there are many more tombs inside Holy Mausoleum,

one of the npc in Silver Snow also mentions there is a popular movement to make Byleth a saint based on their deeds rather than their blood (no one seems interesting in Byleth's similar appearance with Nabateans) making me to believe there are more saints then mentioned, and the title is bestowed regardless if they were Nabateans.

 

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