I just found a reason to train Natasha instead of Moulder.

[Whisky]

Moulder is better than Natasha unless you really want a Valkyrie. Moulder makes a better Bishop. Starting with a C in Staves instead of D like Natasha would seem to be one of the reasons why he is better than her, however, Moulder starts with C Staves which is enough to use Restore. Natasha and L'Arachel both start with D Staves and cannot use Restore. if you want more than one Restore user Ch 14(Ephraim) which has a lot of enemy status staff users, you will need to train up Natasha's or L'Arachel's Staff rank, at least a little bit. Even if Moulder hasn't gained any exp, you can still bring him into this battle and he can use Restore.

[Benice]

Ain't this a reason NOT to use Natasha, though?  The title indicates that the lower staff rank is an advantage.

[Ertrick36]

51 minutes ago, Benice said:

Ain't this a reason NOT to use Natasha, though?  The title indicates that the lower staff rank is an advantage.

Okay, it's actually kinda obtuse, but I think what they're trying to get at is that because Moulder already starts with C-rank in staves, he doesn't need the training, while Natasha absolutely needs it.

In other words, I think OP is arguing for the case of using Natasha as a secondary healer to Moulder, and how training Moulder early on when you could be training Natasha would be a waste because he already has a high staff rank.  "Why have one Restore user when you could have two?"  Sort of like the classic argument against using a Jeigan too much over using the weaker units - the argument that just because one unit might be good doesn't mean you should ignore the rest.

[Benice]

27 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Okay, it's actually kinda obtuse, but I think what they're trying to get at is that because Moulder already starts with C-rank in staves, he doesn't need the training, while Natasha absolutely needs it.

In other words, I think OP is arguing for the case of using Natasha as a secondary healer to Moulder, and how training Moulder early on when you could be training Natasha would be a waste because he already has a high staff rank.  "Why have one Restore user when you could have two?"  Sort of like the classic argument against using a Jeigan too much over using the weaker units - the argument that just because one unit might be good doesn't mean you should ignore the rest.

I guess that makes sesne. I do wish that this game had arms scrolls, I've only ever gotten the Latona once and never got Ivaldi. I might make a patch or something to see what it can do. 

[Whisky]

50 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Okay, it's actually kinda obtuse, but I think what they're trying to get at is that because Moulder already starts with C-rank in staves, he doesn't need the training, while Natasha absolutely needs it.

In other words, I think OP is arguing for the case of using Natasha as a secondary healer to Moulder, and how training Moulder early on when you could be training Natasha would be a waste because he already has a high staff rank.  "Why have one Restore user when you could have two?"  Sort of like the classic argument against using a Jeigan too much over using the weaker units - the argument that just because one unit might be good doesn't mean you should ignore the rest.

Right. You make it sound like a fallacy to not solo the game with a "Jeigan".  It might still be better to use Moulder more than Natasha, but using her at least enough to get her to C Staves gets an another Restore user, which is helpful. If you are only going to use one and not both, then my argument is that if you only use Moulder and not Natasha, you could have a hard time in some battles (possibly only the one I mentioned. I don't know if there are any other battles where this would matter.) Whereas, if you only use Natasha and not Moulder, then you can bring Moulder just for that battle anyway, because he already has C Staves. Sure, Moulder is probably still better overall, but it's something to consider.

 

Also, I said I found a reason to use Natasha over Moulder, not I found a reason that makes her better than Moulder. My first sentence was that Moulder is indeed better than her overall.

 

Edit:

It isn't too hard to reach S ranks in this game, as long as you use the unit that uses that particular weapon type. It helps to know which weapons increase weapon rank more. In the case of Light magic, Shine increases your rank more than other Light tomes (aside from Purge).

Source:

https://serenesforest.net/the-sacred-stones/inventory/light-tomes/

Edited March 25, 2020 by Whisky

[eclipse]

It's okay to like her.  Really.  No need to make up some ridiculous justification for it.

[♠Soul♠]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

It's okay to like her.  Really.  No need to make up some ridiculous justification for it.

That's almost as cold as her Ice affinity.

[eclipse]

Just now, Soul >8] said:

That's almost as cold as her Ice affinity.

I mean, i could also point out that she's one of three units that supports Knoll~!

[Whisky]

37 minutes ago, eclipse said:

It's okay to like her.  Really.  No need to make up some ridiculous justification for it.

But it makes me feel better to justify it! haha

But really though, I don't think it's so ridiculous. I wasn't going out of my way to look for uses for her. I ran into a problem in my current playthrough. I got to Ch 14 and wanted two Restore users. Then I realized that Natasha and L'Arachel only had D staves. I wouldn't have ran into this problem if I had used Natasha instead of Moulder, because he already starts with C Staves anyway. I think it really might be worth it to train Natasha's Staff rank to C even if you are still using Moulder as your primary Staff user.

Well, you also wouldn't have this problem if you promote Artur into a Bishop. And you obviously don't need two Staff users here. I just completed the battle with just Moulder, but I do think having two Restore users would have helped.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Why not both?

After all, having health is good. So, even if Natasha is worse than Moulder, she's still more health. Which isn't too bad.

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Whisky said:

But it makes me feel better to justify it! haha

But really though, I don't think it's so ridiculous. I wasn't going out of my way to look for uses for her. I ran into a problem in my current playthrough. I got to Ch 14 and wanted two Restore users. Then I realized that Natasha and L'Arachel only had D staves. I wouldn't have ran into this problem if I had used Natasha instead of Moulder, because he already starts with C Staves anyway. I think it really might be worth it to train Natasha's Staff rank to C even if you are still using Moulder as your primary Staff user.

Well, you also wouldn't have this problem if you promote Artur into a Bishop. And you obviously don't need two Staff users here. I just completed the battle with just Moulder, but I do think having two Restore users would have helped.

The fastest solution is a promoted Artur.  Next-fastest is a ton of Pure Waters.  After that, it's a matter of being somewhat cautious.  L'Arachel might not be a bad idea, since her presence in that chapter is a net positive (even if untrained).

[Benice]

13 minutes ago, Whisky said:

But it makes me feel better to justify it! haha

But really though, I don't think it's so ridiculous. I wasn't going out of my way to look for uses for her. I ran into a problem in my current playthrough. I got to Ch 14 and wanted two Restore users. Then I realized that Natasha and L'Arachel only had D staves. I wouldn't have ran into this problem if I had used Natasha instead of Moulder, because he already starts with C Staves anyway. I think it really might be worth it to train Natasha's Staff rank to C even if you are still using Moulder as your primary Staff user.

Well, you also wouldn't have this problem if you promote Artur into a Bishop. And you obviously don't need two Staff users here. I just completed the battle with just Moulder, but I do think having two Restore users would have helped.

The torch staves get weapon ranks like nobody's business: I can usually get Natasha to C in chapter 6 and never use her again. (I mean, I always use as many staffbots as possible, but eh, not everyone's like me.)

[Whisky]

12 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Why not both?

After all, having health is good. So, even if Natasha is worse than Moulder, she's still more health. Which isn't too bad.

Sure. It depends on how many other units you are planning on using. It might be worth bringing both for some chapters and only one for certain other chapters.

 

12 minutes ago, eclipse said:

The fastest solution is a promoted Artur.  Next-fastest is a ton of Pure Waters.  After that, it's a matter of being somewhat cautious.  L'Arachel might not be a bad idea, since her presence in that chapter is a net positive (even if untrained).

With Pure Waters, wouldn’t there still be a chance of getting berserked if you’re unlucky? Using L’Arachel does make sense since you need to bring her in this battle anyway for Rennac. I actually really like L’Arachel, I just wish she wasn’t so dang under leveled. I’ve always found it weird how she always talks about smiting monsters and stuff but she can’t fight.

 

13 minutes ago, Benice said:

The torch staves get weapon ranks like nobody's business: I can usually get Natasha to C in chapter 6 and never use her again. (I mean, I always use as many staffbots as possible, but eh, not everyone's like me.)

That’s true. It’s probably pretty easy to get her C Staves and then not worry about until you need her for something, and Moulder probably is still better overall. Well, he is anyway, since the whole point of this topic is that he starts out good enough to not need any training, but you know what I mean.

I don’t have any Torch Staves in this particular playthrough though.

I also ran into another unexpected problem with Moulder... his Staff rank starts so high that it becomes too easy to reach S in Staves and now my Moulder can’t S rank Light Magic...

[eclipse]

2 hours ago, Whisky said:

With Pure Waters, wouldn’t there still be a chance of getting berserked if you’re unlucky? Using L’Arachel does make sense since you need to bring her in this battle anyway for Rennac. I actually really like L’Arachel, I just wish she wasn’t so dang under leveled. I’ve always found it weird how she always talks about smiting monsters and stuff but she can’t fight.

The chances of being hit with those status effects is influenced by a bunch of things, including the target's RES and distance away from the caster.  So if you're far away, and have a magic tank, you're less likely to be stuck with a status effect.

2 hours ago, Whisky said:

I also ran into another unexpected problem with Moulder... his Staff rank starts so high that it becomes too easy to reach S in Staves and now my Moulder can’t S rank Light Magic...

That's what Artur's for~!  😛

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

And I need a reason to train Moulder.

I always train Natasha simply because she has better support options (Joshua).

 

[eclipse]

41 minutes ago, Falcom Knight said:

And I need a reason to train Moulder.

I always train Natasha simply because she has better support options (Joshua).

 

Moulder doesn't deal with as much AS loss from tomes~!

And i try not to talk about FE8 supports.  Someone really hated Joshua.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Poor Josh...

Though I only would consider his con as pro argument........ if Artur didn't exist.

He is the main light magic user.

 

[Whisky]

12 hours ago, eclipse said:

That's what Artur's for~!  😛

That’s true. Artur is good.

 

1 hour ago, Falcom Knight said:

And I need a reason to train Moulder.

I always train Natasha simply because she has better support options (Joshua).

 

Moulder does have advantages over Natasha. That’s not really what this topic is about but I’m definitely willing to have that discussion if you want to. To be honest, the differences between them are very small so it isn’t a big difference either way. You’ll be fine using either one. I wouldn’t really consider supports to be much of an advantage, even though I do agree that she has better supports. Supports build slowly, and aren’t really necessary.

25 minutes ago, Falcom Knight said:

Poor Josh...

Though I only would consider his con as pro argument........ if Artur didn't exist.

He is the main light magic user.

 

Even if Artur is the main Light Magic user, the better Moulder/Natasha are, the better. Artur isn’t really relevant to the comparison between them. You aren’t limited in how may users of a specific weapon type you can use. Although I will agree that their main purpose is to be using Staves, if they do need to attack, and Moulder is better at it, then doesn’t that make him better? 

[Benice]

Over 27 different plathroughs, (Don't judge, me it's a good game!) I've never promoted Artur, Lute, Joshua, Natasha or Moulder. I always promote L'Arachel. You probably can't match me for dumb choices, so I wouldn't worry about not wanting to use Moulder.