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Alistair

Favorite map objective?

What's your favorite map objective?  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your favorite map objective?

    • Seize the throne
      3
    • Rout the enemy
      3
    • Defeat the boss
      6
    • Defend the point
      14
    • Escape the map
      5
    • Survive the map
      1
    • Other
      0


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Mine is probably defend the point. Imo, it has the highest ceiling for strategic thought out of all of them - maps Conquest chapter 10 are so well-regarded because they inherently test the the player beyond "do you have units who can take out the boss/clear enemies." That being said, it also has the lowest floor because, if not properly oaced, can seem like a boring and dragged-out affair. 

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Elincia's gambit was the only reason Part two of RD wasn't a total trainwreck; I loved that chapter, since there was a lot to do every turn, strategically speaking. In general, I find them fun.

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For me, variety and execution matter far more than the particular objective. But, if I had to pick a favourite, it would probably be defend the point; done well, it incentivizes using a variety of units to the best of their abilities, it creates an easy source of tension as enemies seem to overwhelm, and the defences can provide neat gimmicks for the player to utilize. 

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Defeat the boss, actually. In this case, you only have to worry about getting rid of the head honcho and only need to defeat enemies to open up the path.

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Mine would be either Defend the Point or Escap the Map. I also like some Route Maps, or Defend X person.

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Seize: Basically Kill Boss, but with the added step of getting your Lord onto the Throne. Not a fan of it in theory when Kill Boss exists, but I'm sure if you brainstormed you could make a Seize chapter sort of like an escape chapter where you and the boss are racing to reach an allied throne and the player must weigh whether their Lord can make it in time or if they have to prepare to fight or block the boss somehow.

Rout the enemy: This gets a bad rap, but in my opinion it's only annoying when you've got several routs in a row, or a whole game made out of this one objective. The player is already encouraged to maximize exp, so even when a map isn't a rout, the player tends to play the whole game like it is anyway which is an inherent weakness of the design in Fire Emblem being an RPG. You can also make a rout map more interesting by introducing sub objectives like thieves going for chests, or making it narratively interesting like Part 3 Endgame in Radiant Dawn where you're supposed to be cutting enemies like butter as your troops become desensitized to the whole thing. Awful for LTCs, since your units can't be everywhere at once, even with warp.

Kill Boss: As mentioned above, the player tends to treat these maps like rout maps more often than not. Arbitrarily leaving the boss alone as long as they can. Conceptually it's nice to have an objective to go for, but in practice these maps tend to frustrate min-maxing players. Fantastic for LTCs though. I do like Three Houses making it so theres usually several bosses to kill, but if they're spread out in three corners of the map, then it becomes a rout in disguise.

Defend: I love the idea of defend maps to shake up the gameplay and bring some attention to armor knights and siege weapons. However, they just haven't tried this style much. FE7 had some defend maps but they were generally very easy. Linear Fire Emblems do benefit from chapters that are easy experience hot spots, but defend chapters could be so much more. I know people love Elincia's Gambit, but I've never seen anybody have trouble keeping enemies from reaching the defend point, so the objective itself didn't add to a chapter that was good on its own merits.

Escape: Having to escape all your units before your Lord bites. I know some people will point out that wasn't the case in FE9, but it was, since you get bonus exp for each unit that reached the point before Ike. So of course I'm going to want to maximize. I can't think of a single Escape chapter since FE9. Three Houses DLC has one and the quality of that map nosedives when you happen upon that final gimmick near the end. Like Defend this is a great idea for an objective, but no tangible proof that it works well in practice. If I wanted to make an escape map, I'd do it early in the game when all units have the same movement range, thus you're not being held up by armor knights.

Survive: Defend chapter, except there's no game over for when the enemy reaches a certain tile. Not much to say here, it can be fun if enemies pose a threat and the player must rely on chokepoints and siege weapons but is otherwise an experience free for all. A rout map with a time limit. Good for linear fire emblem, bad for non linear fire emblem.

I guess my answer is Seize. As much as I want there to be good Defend/Survive, or good Escape maps, there aren't. Seize maps are straightforward and help make the Lord feel important and justify him being a forced deployment the whole game. So conceptually they're solid as well. If your game doesn't have seize maps, then it doesn't need a Lord.

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On 3/26/2020 at 2:24 AM, Glennstavos said:

Escape: Having to escape all your units before your Lord bites. I know some people will point out that wasn't the case in FE9, but it was, since you get bonus exp for each unit that reached the point before Ike. So of course I'm going to want to maximize. I can't think of a single Escape chapter since FE9. Three Houses DLC has one and the quality of that map nosedives when you happen upon that final gimmick near the end. Like Defend this is a great idea for an objective, but no tangible proof that it works well in practice. If I wanted to make an escape map, I'd do it early in the game when all units have the same movement range, thus you're not being held up by armor knights.

Doesn't Fates have one on both Birthright and Conquest? Also, Radiant Dawn has a few early on, at least if you're not on easy mode.

On 3/26/2020 at 2:24 AM, Glennstavos said:

Seize: Basically Kill Boss, but with the added step of getting your Lord onto the Throne. Not a fan of it in theory when Kill Boss exists, but I'm sure if you brainstormed you could make a Seize chapter sort of like an escape chapter where you and the boss are racing to reach an allied throne and the player must weigh whether their Lord can make it in time or if they have to prepare to fight or block the boss somehow.

I would mention Arrive, which is this except that it doesn't require the lord to take the objective. Anyway, I'm just not a fan of this, especially after Binding Blade, AKA Escort Mission: The Game, which combined poor map quality with throne bonuses. Ugh. The only good thing I can say about this is that Fates made it such that anyone can seize and end the chapter.

Anyway, my answer is defeat boss.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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I like a combination of multiple objectives.

In FE10 it's an either or choice of defending and beating boss.

In chapter 20 of FE5 both must be done.

 

Also I like races like the one against Catherine in one of the paralogues from Three Houses.

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On 3/26/2020 at 3:24 AM, Glennstavos said:

Kill Boss: As mentioned above, the player tends to treat these maps like rout maps more often than not. Arbitrarily leaving the boss alone as long as they can. Conceptually it's nice to have an objective to go for, but in practice these maps tend to frustrate min-maxing players. Fantastic for LTCs though. I do like Three Houses making it so theres usually several bosses to kill, but if they're spread out in three corners of the map, then it becomes a rout in disguise.

Not really, and I'd say it's even better for LTCs in that it requires more effort than getting a bosskiller from point A to point B.

Also wrt Seize you didn't mention FE7's Crazed Beast, which is a unique take on the objective. Like Tellius and Fates' Arrive maps it allows anyone to take the point, but it compensates by requiring you to seize three separate points. The Last Promise had a similar objective, although it required the Lords to seize, required you to take all the outposts before the main castle, and on top of that the main boss moved and passively prevented you from seizing his gate. There were some flaws in the execution but I want to see more of that in the games.

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I tried to answer based on what I think should be the most common objective in a game. In that sense, defeat the boss is the best because it's very flexible. Other objectives can be nice once in a while, but imagine how weird the game would be if almost every chapter had 'Defend the Point' as the objective.

I think the actual map design is far more important than the objective. I also like maps with multiple objectives or objectives that change depending on certain conditions.

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34 minutes ago, anikom15 said:

I also like maps with multiple objectives or objectives that change depending on certain conditions.

Even Foreign Land and Sky (Petra and Bernadetta's paralogue)? Because that one has the initial objective be an outright lie; after several turns, or once Petra gets close to the objective, a bunch of reinforcements come in and the objective changes to defeating everyone while preventing commanders from getting to the objective square. The commanders in question, as well as the general enemy makeup, are dependent on which story you're playing.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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8 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Even Foreign Land and Sky (Petra and Bernadetta's paralogue)? Because that one has the initial objective be an outright lie; after several turns, or once Petra gets close to the objective, a bunch of reinforcements come in and the objective changes to defeating everyone while preventing commanders from getting to the objective square. The commanders in question, as well as the general enemy makeup, are dependent on which story you're playing.

I did like that for two reasons. One, I happen to like when games are mean like that to begin with (I'm an FE fan after all), and two, you have divine pulse to fix things if you put your soft units/healers in a place where the reinforcements happen to show up.

That Fates: Birthright chapter was one of the better escape missions, IMO.

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33 minutes ago, anikom15 said:

I did like that for two reasons. One, I happen to like when games are mean like that to begin with (I'm an FE fan after all), and two, you have divine pulse to fix things if you put your soft units/healers in a place where the reinforcements happen to show up.

That Fates: Birthright chapter was one of the better escape missions, IMO.

I really hope Intelligent Systems doesn't start using the rewind mechanic to justify terrible design decisions. Because there was a lot of that in 3H

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