do people really not like Thracia's core mechanics?

[ping]

19 hours ago, Dinar87 said:

Maybe this "isn't what fire emblem is supposed to be" but who gives a damn? It's fun for me and loads of other people to play this way, and it seems you and a few others like 'Mekkah' online, are trying to subtlety "educate" us why we're wrong about what we like, and we should just go find another series. Elitism basically.

I feel like you're misrepresenting Mekkah quite heavily here. I don't watch his content religiously, but he's usually pretty insistent that he does not mean to tell you how you must play the game or what you must and mustn't enjoy about a game. You'll find the occasional memer going "USING X IS A PITFALL LOLOLOLOL", but that's not what that series is about. It's meant to help you become better at the classic FE games (as in, "have an easier time beating the story"), which includes arguments why some units are more helpful than others.

If you can't stand people talking about why they dislike a thing you like (or vice versa), that's honestly your own problem. I can understand being annoyed if every topic on the forums gets derailed to "Ceterum censeo FATES ISSE SHITSHOW ET ESSE DELENDAM", but I'm not sure what you were expecting when clicking on a thread titled "do people really not like Thracia's core mechanics?", other than people explaining and discussion why they really do or don't like Thracia's core mechanics. Not sure what's subtly educational about it.

"Less popular" means neither "not as good" nor "better".

[Dinar87]

2 hours ago, ping said:

I feel like you're misrepresenting Mekkah quite heavily here. I don't watch his content religiously, but he's usually pretty insistent that he does not mean to tell you how you must play the game or what you must and mustn't enjoy about a game. You'll find the occasional memer going "USING X IS A PITFALL LOLOLOLOL", but that's not what that series is about. It's meant to help you become better at the classic FE games (as in, "have an easier time beating the story"), which includes arguments why some units are more helpful than others.

If you can't stand people talking about why they dislike a thing you like (or vice versa), that's honestly your own problem. I can understand being annoyed if every topic on the forums gets derailed to "Ceterum censeo FATES ISSE SHITSHOW ET ESSE DELENDAM", but I'm not sure what you were expecting when clicking on a thread titled "do people really not like Thracia's core mechanics?", other than people explaining and discussion why they really do or don't like Thracia's core mechanics. Not sure what's subtly educational about it.

"Less popular" means neither "not as good" nor "better".

I just keep seeing this particular mindset of "FE is clearly a STRATEGY series which = you can't play it for the rpg elements you FAKE FAN!!!1!" crop up online, and I suspect based on how much people like him and mangs still complain about "modern fire emblem", even though three houses was legitimately amazing, are to blame. They'll complain about how having bad map design "ObJeCtIvElY" ruins things like cindered shadows, even though most FE fans liked it from what I can tell. They want FE to be nothing but pure chess, no fun or grinding.

Also yeah that annoyance is exactly what I was talking about. The constant shitshow that is the FE fanbase and how it can easily become cool to hate/love certain games in the series just because youtubers like Mekkah say they're good or bad. Few people will actually try out games like path of radiance or fe6...I've played both but most people just follow the bandwagon.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Dinar87

[Lightcosmo]

42 minutes ago, Dinar87 said:

I just keep seeing this particular mindset of "FE is clearly a STRATEGY series which = you can't play it for the rpg elements you FAKE FAN!!!1!" crop up online, and I suspect based on how much people like him and mangs still complain about "modern fire emblem", even though three houses was legitimately amazing, are to blame. They'll complain about how having bad map design "ObJeCtIvElY" ruins things like cindered shadows, even though most FE fans liked it from what I can tell. They want FE to be nothing but pure chess, no fun or grinding.

Also yeah that annoyance is exactly what I was talking about. The constant shitshow that is the FE fanbase and how it can easily become cool to hate/love certain games in the series just because youtubers like Mekkah say they're good or bad. Few people will actually try out games like path of radiance or fe6...I've played both but most people just follow the bandwagon.

When they point out stronger units, they are really just picking at the balance of the game, which is 99.9% of the time going to be awful, which isn't wrong. Maybe they are trying to prove a point to the devs that the game needs to be "fixed" because high MOV units in people eyes can really break the game way too quickly. I wouldn't say it's wrong to point out these issues, either, since having units like FE8 Seth can make the game boring just by being there. Yes, to a degree complaining about issues too much eventually takes away from playing the game, but everyone has issues about a game they just feel they need to address.

[UNLEASH IT]

On 4/19/2020 at 8:55 AM, Dinar87 said:

You say that, but you objectively, seriously, ask the question "Do people really not like these features?" when you yourself know that whether people like these mechanics or not is subjective.

You need to accept that a lot of FE fans (like me) only care about the RPG side of the gameplay, as well as the games overall; the story, leveling up and promoting into cool, new evolutionary classes-type gameplay, the music, etc... and not at all the chess like "balanced" strategic stuff.

Maybe this "isn't what fire emblem is supposed to be" but who gives a damn? It's fun for me and loads of other people to play this way, and it seems you and a few others like 'Mekkah' online, are trying to subtlety "educate" us why we're wrong about what we like, and we should just go find another series. Elitism basically.

The people who are only in the series for "waifus" and hate on anyone who disagrees with them are just as bad imo.

I mean if we're gonna be subjective, what exactly is wrong with liking FE only for the waifus (or husbandos)?

[ping]

1 hour ago, Dinar87 said:

I just keep seeing this particular mindset of "FE is clearly a STRATEGY series which = you can't play it for the rpg elements you FAKE FAN!!!1!" crop up online, and I suspect based on how much people like him and mangs still complain about "modern fire emblem", even though three houses was legitimately amazing, are to blame. They'll complain about how having bad map design "ObJeCtIvElY" ruins things like cindered shadows, even though most FE fans liked it from what I can tell. They want FE to be nothing but pure chess, no fun or grinding.

You "suspect"? K.

You also attack Mangs and Mekkah for having an opinion on "modern Fire Emblem". You attack them for having an opinion you don't agree with. I don't want to read too much into it, but by calling 3H "legitimately amazing", you present your opinion as the correct one.

I'm not saying that you do precisely what you accuse others of doing, but I want to offer you that possible perception.

[Harvey]

I absolutely LOVE the core mechanics of Thracia. Everything about it works. And those that complain how hard it is either say that because they don't know how its mechanics work or because of how brutal the map designs are over here since the enemies here are generally weak.

Fatigue at first doesn't make sense since it appears all of a sudden after like beating the first six chapters I think? But once you get more units, it makes a LOT of sense becuase of how the game wants you to make use of the other units and this isn't a problem since the majority of the units you get are useful and only few of them are not worth using. I like this because it motivates you to think who you want to use and whom you'd rather let rest for the next chapter.

And being that its a game that encourages you to capture units to confiscate their items for your benefit, this is amazing and Its a bummer that future games don't have the capture fully realised.

Sure, the game has flaws such as staves missing(then again, FF Tactics also had this issue and people didn't seem to mind it) and the PCC thing is...odd. But other than that, FE5 fixes all the issues that FE4 had in the gameplay side of things even though I had no problem with Fe4.

 

[Dinar87]

20 minutes ago, ping said:

You "suspect"? K.

You also attack Mangs and Mekkah for having an opinion on "modern Fire Emblem". You attack them for having an opinion you don't agree with. I don't want to read too much into it, but by calling 3H "legitimately amazing", you present your opinion as the correct one.

I'm not saying that you do precisely what you accuse others of doing, but I want to offer you that possible perception.

This is what I'm talking about though when I mean "elitism"






This was on the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQxaDMYBR0g

This person for example, keeps assuming that because I'm an rpg fan when he specifically says "you guys" I'll just eat up whatever IS puts out because hey, it has gacha-like gameplay and will bring in the sales so "that's a good thing".

If you haven't figured it out yet, one of the things I'm doing here is I'm worried that the FE fandom is becoming increasingly toxic.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Dinar87

[ping]

In the YT comments of a video that features Mekkah, A Guy is making a sweeping generalization, which falls back on Mangs and Mekkah because..........? By the way:

2 hours ago, Dinar87 said:

They'll complain about how having bad map design "ObJeCtIvElY" ruins things like cindered shadows, even though most FE fans liked it from what I can tell. They want FE to be nothing but pure chess, no fun or grinding.

Hm.

[Koops]

Mekkah has a series where he talks about unpopular opinions where he censors the users who voice these opinions because he knows it's bad to harass people over stuff like that. I don't see how he imposes his views on his viewers, he's a pretty chill guy when it comes to that.

BUT I'm gonna actually say something in-topic and say that FE5's mechanics are actually pretty good. They make the game challenging even with enemies that suck. Capturing is something that you may need but even without it you have the tools to succeed, and if you mess it up it may bite you back later, so it's a fair risk and ultimately up to you. Rescuing is imo at its best here, because of how Taking/Giving/Dropping a unit works (you can freely cycle between any adjacent unit and just play catch with the one being rescued). Fatigue, while definitely an annoyance on a first playthrough, is something that adds a layer of strategy in later playthroughs, where you know when you should deploy X units to recruit Y units. Dismounting, while it has its flaws, prevents mounts from completely ruling over the game's meta.

That isn't to say the game is perfect, but I find that many of its exclusive mechanics give FE5 its unique identity and makes it somewhat special. Definitely not my favorite in the series but it's still really good, and the core mechanics help shape it into what it is.

[Dinar87]

22 hours ago, ping said:

In the YT comments of a video that features Mekkah, A Guy is making a sweeping generalization, which falls back on Mangs and Mekkah because..........? By the way:

Hm.

Yeah tbh I was being pretty hypocritical generalizing all the people I didn't like, while at the same time complaining about people generalizing me. Sorry.

[Reality]

I feel like Thracia is surprisingly easy given it's reputation.

Dismount swords only > many unique E rank swords, including enough non lord locked rapiers for everyone if you really like capturing. Also Many of the Thracia indoor maps tend to have 1 or 2 tile hallways.

Fatigue - I think you get too many S drinks, tbh. Also you will get forced refresh on a few charathers when every 4th chapter has low-deployment limit and you end up with charathers refreshed indirectly. Big Melee people take a ton to fatique.

Compared to a player phase focused game like New Mystery or Conquest... you can kind of meatgrind the enemy's with big enemy phase units with only slightly more difficulty than the well known easy games in the franchise. Othin and Halvin will probably be the best at this, but I had about 6 other people who were close enough to take constant advantage of the terrible generic enemy stats in this game.

 

[anikom15]

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[Mars of Aritia]

In the middle of a first playthrough and i'm loving it... except for the stupid 1RN hit. This game has made me absolutely loathe it. If I miss another 3 80% hits in a row or get hit by yet another 20% ballista I'm going to yell.

Everything else though (well, maybe not healing staves missing) is great, and it's baffling that most of these mechanics haven't been brought back. I blame it's bizarre release date.

 

[Jotari]

Healing staves having a miss chance can fuck right off, but otherwise, yes, I genuinely do like the core mechanics of Thracia.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jotari

[Boomhauer007]

I just beat this for the first time, so i can finally contribute to this topic. Played largely blind, so I didn't know about all of them going in. 

+ Leif must escape last

+ 1 RN 

+ Capturing / stealing weapons

+ Con and Move as stats that can grow

+ Lots of personal weapons

- Universal caps of 20

- 1-99 hit rates

- Same turn reinforcements

- Heavy use of not telling the player things

- Scrolls heavily influencing growths

The rest are in the middle. I like dismounting indoors for most of the game, but then it's dumb that almost no one can use lances for the last few chapters. I like fatigue for most of the game, but endgame should be an exception IMO. I think it's cool not being able to control deployment when the army is on the run, but feels dumb when you have chapters like 24 where the party chooses to split up and you just have to deal with who lands where. I don't mind offensive staves missing, but heal staves missing is dumb.