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do people really not like Thracia's core mechanics?

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I don't count fog of war as a core mechanic because every GBA game has FoW, hell, even 3 houses has FoW  I'm not really talking about FoW since that's not a mechanic exclusive to thracia, but more the other general things that were only included in Thracia.

 

I mean stuff like minimum unit deployment limits, 99 hit cap/single RNG, fatigue and dismounting. Do people really not like this? It's some of the best balancing mechanics in the series imo. Minimum unit deployment ensures you aren't low-maning (for example, chapter 19 with 2 units ends fairly quickly. chapter 16b with 2 units ends fairly quickly.) Single RNG, along with the 99 hit cap, ensures there is a bit of risk in just sending units to go solo hordes of enemies, as they aren't as invincible on a forest as they would be in say, a GBA game. Fatigue is also a good mechanic because it prevents you from using the same untis every time, and encourages variety in who you train (as well as against funneling all exp in to one unit and having them solo hordes of enemies). Dismounting is one of the best mechanics in fire emblem that did return in fe3h, but I feel 3h didn't do enough with it. Not being able to bring cavalry indoors is great, and a good balacing mechanic. it's also realistic because nobody fucking brings horses inside castles dismounted knights typically don't fight with lances, but with swords, since lances are usually a cavalry thing. Not only does it make sense but it's also a very good balancing mechanic against cav spam that you'd see in games like fe4 and fe7, where they have 0 limitations and are typically the best units. I wish RD brought back dismounting; they did a decent job of limiting cavalry indoors, but not being able to travel up ledges at all kind of sucked

 

Anyway that's my rant. Do people really not like these features? I know many have complained about fatigue and single RNG but I think they make the experience better

Edited by forsettipatty

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I do like being able to capture enemies and steal their equipment from them. I like fatigue as a concept in that you can't just rely on the same few overpowered units for every single map, you need to switch to some of your other units at some point, though it could've been implemented a bit better.

There are some things about Thracia's mechanics that I really don't like though, including but not limited to:

  • Not being able to manually reposition units on the prep screen.
  • Not being able to heal green units (glares at Fred in Ch. 11)
  • The game not giving a warning if you try to have Leif escape before everyone else on Escape maps
  • Lance knights and Axe knights being forced to use swords when they dismount for indoor maps.

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3 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

 

Anyway that's my rant. Do people really not like these features? I know many have complained about fatigue and single RNG but I think they make the experience better

It's a general rule some people will dislike something in a franchise that differs from what their perception of the franchise is. An example of this is the numerous "oddball" second entries of the NES era, and how many of them are considered black sheep for deviating from the norm. Things like single RNG, the possibility of staves failing to heal, fatigue, and minimum deployment limits can all be perceived as making things unnecessarily more complicated/difficult than the series has been since being released in the West.

This sort of thing can also explain why people dislike Dragon Quest II to the point of it being called the black sheep of the series (despite the fact that it vastly improved on the barebones Dragon Quest 1 by adding a party, an opening cutscene, keys that didn't break after uses, status conditions, and gameplay that didn't just amount to grinding to the point where you could one-shot whatever common enemies were in an area), or the experimental Castlevania II (which in my opinion tried to go for what Symphony of the Night achieved, but was limited by technical constraints). Then we have Zelda II, which cops a lot of flak for basically being a different genre entirely, or Super Mario Bros 2, which while not as severe does still get crap for being Doki Doki Panic re-skinned as opposed to a real sequel. Not even going into Final Fantasy II, which had legitimately bad gameplay due to a poor "levelling" system (if you can call it that), but really had a much better story than the generic 1 or 3.

Point is, if a game's different enough from what people perceive the series as, it risks being picked apart for it's imperfections/differences, as people will focus on the bad aspects over the good. I remember when Wind Waker came out, and a classmate vehemently refused to have anything to do with the game based off it's art-style alone. I on the other hand mostly enjoyed it except for the amount of time I spent sailing or setting the wind in the direction I needed for sailing. That said, even I admit that aspect weighs far more heavily in my memory of the game than it should

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Thracia had tons of good ideas.

It's just that some of them do not suit how they exist, but would work with some improvement.

  • Capturing is the best mechanic in the series. It's executed perfectly.
  • Fatigue is a good idea, but needs improvement. Low HP units, mainly healers, do suffer too much from it.
  • 1-99% hit might suit to the plot, but makes this game artificially luckbased.
  • No access to set starting positions in the battle preparation is even worse than it since in some maps the party is split in isolated areas or are widely spread (chapter 19 and 24). 
  • I don't mind fug of war, but it exists in chapters where other nasty mechanics exist. In 14x you have to deal with flying enemies and 24x is well known as the most beginner unfriendly map in the entire series.
  • DIsmounting is handled well.
  • Staves work truly the best in FE5. It's the only part where also enemy staff users can be really dangerous and can do staff combos like in chapter 24 and 24x. 

 

Edited by Reisalin Stout

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7 minutes ago, Reisalin Stout said:
  • Fatigue is a good idea, but needs improvement. Low HP units, mainly healers, do suffer too much from it.
  • 1-99% hit might suit to the plot, but makes this game artificially luckbased.
  • No access to set starting positions in the battle preparation is even worse than it since some in some maps people are split in isolated areas or are widely spread (chapter 19 and 24).

on fatigue: I think that stave users getting fatigued quickly is fair because of how powerful and useful they are. I understand why people wouldn't like this though

on 1-99% hit: I don't think it makes it luck based, just harder to cheese. Tbf, fe has always been somewhat luck based.

No access to starting positions: believe it or not I actually like this mechanic, adapting to your surroundings and giving items to the units to need them is a kind of thing I sort of like.... that being said, Chapter 24 is a lot more annoying when stave users are placed in inconvenient places. also understandable why people dont like this one

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21 minutes ago, The Roger The Paladin said:

Not even going into Final Fantasy II, which had legitimately bad gameplay due to a poor "levelling" system (if you can call it that), but really had a much better story than the generic 1 or 3.

Is it though?

It's certainly darker but it's still pretty dang generic. You ask me I'll take the "kooky" 1 or 3 any day and I do include the story.

As for other second entries, Ratchet & Clank had a much harder second game that I think means people don't necessarily talk about it much even if they know it, while Megaman 2 is considered the game that made the original line and Chrono Cross is so controversial we never got a third.

28 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

The game not giving a warning if you try to have Leif escape before everyone else on Escape maps

I assume you mean actually giving an in game message saying it if you try, not that the original game ever gave that warning. Or the old patch.

And yeah, dismounting is one of those things I wish had been handled better in terms of weapon types. Lances are essentially useless for the end as a result.

44 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

Single RNG, along with the 99 hit cap, ensures there is a bit of risk in just sending units to go solo hordes of enemies, as they aren't as invincible on a forest as they would be in say, a GBA game.

You say that. I say Mareeta dodging endless javelins in 21x.  I mean, yeah it does mean there's always a chance but I'd rather it be more like your ability to get to 0/100% is harder. Not as hard on 100% in comparison, but I hope that makes sense.

Fatigue had use in SoV dungeons, but it essentially irrelevant as by the time it might be a problem you've got so much food that it won't matter.

12 minutes ago, Reisalin Stout said:

Fatigue is a good idea, but needs improvement. Low HP units, mainly healers, do suffer too much from it.

It also doesn't help that staff rank determines how much fatigue a staff gives.

Personal staves are awful for this as well and this is why healers are so easily fatigued after only a few uses. I wonder if it should have been like that at all.

12 minutes ago, Reisalin Stout said:

No access to set starting positions in the battle preparation is even worse than it since some in some maps people are split in isolated areas or are widely spread (chapter 19 and 24). 

And that's why we have patches. Nothing else held me back with this game as this did for chapter 19. I was stuck for 6 months. Entirely because I couldn't have my stronger units be where they should have been.

2 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

No access to starting positions: believe it or not I actually like this mechanic, adapting to your surroundings and giving items to the units to need them is a kind of thing I sort of like.... that being said, Chapter 24 is a lot more annoying when stave users are placed in inconvenient places. also understandable why people dont like this one

I cannot disagree more.

Coming back to chapter 19, how does it make sense that Leif wouldn't have picked who went with Dorias after he'd convinced them (Hell that could be used as an utter panic moment for him as he realises just what this action had led to)? How does it make sense that there wouldn't have been decisions in which groups would have gone where when entering Manster in 24? Personally I think it's entirely to make things more difficult for the sake of it and that's just bad imo.

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47 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

It's some of the best balancing mechanics in the series imo.

That's not necessarily a good thing.

47 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

Minimum unit deployment ensures you aren't low-maning

No, for the most part it just means you're forced to drag around extra units for no good reason.

48 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

Single RNG, along with the 99 hit cap, ensures there is a bit of risk in just sending units to go solo hordes of enemies, as they aren't as invincible on a forest as they would be in say, a GBA game.

There are better ways to create such risks.

49 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

Fatigue is also a good mechanic because it prevents you from using the same untis every time

I say that's what makes it a terrible mechanic, and maybe the worst ever created in the series. Why shouldn't I be allowed to use the same units every time? There are much better ways to discourage low-manning than straight up forcing the player out of the characters they like.

50 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

Dismounting

Dismounting isn't a bad idea on its own, but the way it was implemented means you have maps where every damn unit in your army has to use a sword to fight. This coupled with the way capture and weapon acquisition works in the game creates endless frustration.

However, once again, there are better potential ways to balance mounted units, should such a thing even be necessary in the first place.

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I might really like Thracia, but some of its mechanics are quite annoying and I do see why people don't like them. Heck, I don't like some of their implementations myself.

22 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

I don't count fog of war as a core mechanic because every GBA game has FoW, hell, even 3 houses has FoW

Just because you don't count it as a core mechanic doesn't mean it all of a sudden isn't a core mechanic. The specific way that FoW works in Thracia is unique to it and it alone. All other FEs when implementing it still show you the general shape of the map, meanwhile Thracia is pure black, you have no clue. Thematically, I quite like it. Gameplay-wise it's a pain in the ass and I loathe dealing with it more than any other version of FoW.

26 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

minimum unit deployment limits

This is something that only works in Thracia. I'm fine with it (besides trying to draft Thracia with it because it makes drafting a pain), but I couldn't imagine another game in the series using it. Most of Thracia's core mechanics only work when combined, not apart. Sometimes people isolate the mechanics from one another when analyzing, which makes them not work. Think about minimum unit deployment limits in a game like FE7. Since it doesn't have fatigue, you'd just use the same units over again. Plus it actually makes sure that in the examples of maps you've listed that they actually work. Speaking of fatigue,

30 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

fatigue

Fatigue needs more ways to work around it. It works, but it's too punishing for certain units while being negligible for others. Either decrease how much staff uses add to the fatigue meter, or increase staff unit hp. I also wish that there were items you could pick up the partially reduced fatigue. S drinks are rare, but if we had those partially reducing items it'd add more strategy. As is now, if you have a unit who's almost fatigued and no S drink, you just use them non-stop for that map because it doesn't matter. If we have like an orange that reduces fatigue by 10, then you have to put more thought into using them if you want to use them for the next map. Again, this is a mechanic that really only works in the system that Thracia has set up. In SoV, the only other game it's featured in, it's so meaningless that I wonder why it was included. The pointless inclusion in SoV has also colored the perception of fatigue into thinking it's not a necessary addition to the games and is overall pointless and lame.

44 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

dismounting

45 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

Not being able to bring cavalry indoors is great, and a good balacing mechanic. it's also realistic because nobody fucking brings horses inside castles dismounted knights typically don't fight with lances, but with swords, since lances are usually a cavalry thing.

Not bringing horses indoors is fine, the issue is them being forced to use other weapons. I'd be fine with not being to use lances if there weren't infantry lance enemies basically every map. This absolutely destroys the idea that "lances are usually a cavalry thing", since even with Thracia that isn't true.

Also Fire Emblem is inherently unrealistic. You have magic for Christ's sake. Realism is nice and all, but we're not making a war sim, it's a fantasy TRPG. Realism is going to be broken.

51 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

99 hit cap/single RNG

Single/Double RNG is just preference. I think if it were double RNG with the 99 hit cap, more people would be fine with it. Or vice versa, single RNG without the 99 hit cap. People just like the assurance that a 100 hit chance gives them, since everyone's got their 99% miss into enemy 1% crit story.

53 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

It's some of the best balancing mechanics in the series imo.

It balances Thracia, but they just wouldn't function as well in other games, absent of each other. As I said, most of them are inherently linked in order to work.

As for not being able to reposition your troops, it's bad design because it isn't communicated to the player. When we have no clue where are troops are going to be until we deploy, then we can't plan around that. If the game told you where each troop would go, even that would make the game more strategic. Sure, at that point just allow repositioning, but if you want to keep that aspect there, just tell me where my units are going to be. This is why I consider blind Thracia to be one of the worst experiences in the series, while guided Thracia is one of the best.

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22 minutes ago, Dayni said:

And that's why we have patches. Nothing else held me back with this game as this did for chapter 19. I was stuck for 6 months. Entirely because I couldn't have my stronger units be where they should have been.

There's a way the unit's starting position can be set. Each starting spot is determimated on the unit's number in the battle preparation screen.

Though certain units must be skipped to have best possible starting position for most people.

It took me about 30 minutes to figure out a decent formation for chapter 19.

 

I cannot disagree more.

Coming back to chapter 19, how does it make sense that Leif wouldn't have picked who went with Dorias after he'd convinced them (Hell that could be used as an utter panic moment for him as he realises just what this action had led to)? How does it make sense that there wouldn't have been decisions in which groups would have gone where when entering Manster in 24? Personally I think it's entirely to make things more difficult for the sake of it and that's just bad imo.

 

27 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

No access to starting positions: believe it or not I actually like this mechanic, adapting to your surroundings and giving items to the units to need them is a kind of thing I sort of like.... that being said, Chapter 24 is a lot more annoying when stave users are placed in inconvenient places. also understandable why people dont like this one

The unit's deployment is not as important in chapter 24 with exception of Mareeta who should start in Leif's group to recruit Galzus as in chapter 19. 

If any low movement staff unit starts in the middle of the battlefield, then good luck!

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1 hour ago, forsettipatty said:

I don't count fog of war as a core mechanic because every GBA game has FoW, hell, even 3 houses has FoW

It's been used in just about every game ever since. But the way Thracia handles fog of war is terrible - the other games at least allowed you to see the general map when it was implemented.

1 hour ago, forsettipatty said:

Minimum unit deployment ensures you aren't low-maning (for example, chapter 19 with 2 units ends fairly quickly. chapter 16b with 2 units ends fairly quickly.)

On the contrary, I'd say it means dragging extra units along for no real reason.

1 hour ago, forsettipatty said:

Single RNG, along with the 99 hit cap, ensures there is a bit of risk in just sending units to go solo hordes of enemies, as they aren't as invincible on a forest as they would be in say, a GBA game.

I'm fine with single RNG, but not with the 99 hit cap. 

1 hour ago, forsettipatty said:

Fatigue is also a good mechanic because it prevents you from using the same untis every time, and encourages variety in who you train (as well as against funneling all exp in to one unit and having them solo hordes of enemies).

I would say that's what makes it a terrible mechanic, and possibly one of the worst to ever (dis)grace the Fire Emblem series. Why should I not have complete control over who I use?? There are better ways to discourage low-manning than taking choice out of the player's hands.

1 hour ago, forsettipatty said:

Dismounting is one of the best mechanics in fire emblem that did return in fe3h, but I feel 3h didn't do enough with it. Not being able to bring cavalry indoors is great, and a good balacing mechanic. it's also realistic because nobody fucking brings horses inside castles dismounted knights typically don't fight with lances, but with swords, since lances are usually a cavalry thing.

Dismounting itself is okay, but 3H aside, the only game where it worked was Mystery, where weapon rank wasn't a thing yet, and thus it didn't neuter certain units. Two mutually exclusive weapon ranks in a game where weapon rank is slow to build is just awful.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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55 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Is it though?

It's certainly darker but it's still pretty dang generic. You ask me I'll take the "kooky" 1 or 3 any day and I do include the story.

Gameplay wise I'll fully admit it's inferior, but I argue the darker atmosphere and increased characterization of NPCs compared to 1 and, to an extent, 3 paved the way for games like IV, VI, and VII. That said, the player characters and antagonist were still a blank state, and a lot of the missions were awfully fetch-questy. No master-piece by any means, but I feel like it gets given a harsher time than it deserves, like quite a number of other games on the list. Point was more a lament on that sometimes the bad aspects of a game get remembered far more than the good. Then again, I just have a soft-spot for black-sheep games.

1 hour ago, Dayni said:

As for other second entries, Ratchet & Clank had a much harder second game that I think means people don't necessarily talk about it much even if they know it, while Megaman 2 is considered the game that made the original line and Chrono Cross is so controversial we never got a third.

Ah. Megaman 2, the black sheep of second games on the NES... for not being a black sheep. Can you think of any other second game on the console that did that? (Double Dragon II the Revenge obviously. I mean it's the best of the three, because it has two-player unlike 1, and isn't as unforgiving as 3.... which I also have a soft spot for. Maybe I just legit like games that piss me off. Maybe I just like to try and see what the developer was going for (this would explain why games I see as soul-less like Awesome Possum and Bubsy 3D are just irritating as opposed to something I can derive entertainment from, whereas games that over-reached in their ambition or have infuriating difficulty tend to get a pass).

1 hour ago, Reisalin Stout said:

No access to set starting positions in the battle preparation is even worse than it since in some maps the party is split in isolated areas or are widely spread (chapter 19 and 24). 

Definitely one of the more irritating things about the Kaga era Fire Emblem games. I remember playing Gaiden the first time and having Tatiana done in by the crater necrodragons' initial attack before you get to move because "surprise attack". That example being given, it's obvious the problem went back a bit further than Thracia... it's just accentuated here.

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Staves missing and solid Fog of War are pretty stupid, I won't lie.

But I don't think these are major problems overall.  I especially like the use of Dismount to nerf mounted units indoors, though I wish Weapon Ranks were handled better in places.  *cough*Lance and Axe Cavaliers*cough*

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2 hours ago, Dayni said:

I assume you mean actually giving an in game message saying it if you try, not that the original game ever gave that warning. Or the old patch.

Something like that, yeah

 

29 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Staves missing and solid Fog of War are pretty stupid, I won't lie.

But I don't think these are major problems overall.  I especially like the use of Dismount to nerf mounted units indoors, though I wish Weapon Ranks were handled better in places.  *cough*Lance and Axe Cavaliers*cough*

Oh yeah, staves missing and pitch black Fog of War are dumb as well. Likewise with being able to miss a 99%

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If anything, i have to ask the question of "people actually like Thracia's core mechanics?". Because pretty much the entierity of Thracia is filled with bad game design imo (Jugdral as a whole is like this but let's keep is to Thracia for now).

Fatigue is arguably one of the worst things the series has done. People who argue in favor of it are like "oh it's so that you don't use the same units over and over" but like, people do use the same units over and over in other Fire Emblem games. I mean, i imagine most do. Nobody says anything about the other games letting you use the same units over and over. Using the same units over and over isn't a problem. Thracia's Fatigue doesn't encourage you to use different units, it forces you to, even when literally every other game in the series is like "nah it's cool bro, just play how you want". Minimum deployments falls into a similar problems. In other games in the series, if a unit is a liability, you just don't use them. Minimum deployment basically says "nah, bring these extras that will get in your way". Nobody has a problem with low-manning other Fire Emblem games but when Thracia doesn't let you, it's a good thing?

Regarding Fog of War and 1-99% hitrates, i feel like everyone has said what needed to be said. Especially the latter, i don't think i've ever seen anyone argue for 1-99% hitrates.

Healing staffs missing is stupid. What even is the logic here? How do you miss a heal? It baffles my mind that Kaga looked at this and thought "this is a good idea".

The only thing i kinda like is Dismounting but tbh, it doesn't need to exist. And it's always a liability when the mounted unit doesn't have enough rank in swords.

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If you're counting dismounting as a Thracia core mechanic, I'm counting FoW.  Both appeared in various games, despite the fact that I've only played one where dismounting was present (drum roll please. . .Three Houses!).

That being said, there's only so much randomness i can take, and when it applies to healing staves, that's when I'm out.

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Capturing is a brilliant mechanic, adds so much to the gameplay and is just plain fun. The single best thing about Thracia for me.

The 99 hit cap and minimum deployment slots are not noticeable enough for me to care.

Staves missing sucks, but it stops mattering once the unit gets enough skill, and before long all it does is balance staves like thief and unlock. I don't like it, I just don't mind it.

Dismounting could definitely have been handled better. It's cool that they nerf horses, but I think they went a bit too far with the penalties - and while it does give infantry a chance to shine, among the cavalry itself all it does is greatly benefit those who use swords when mounted or have a high sword rank at base, and screw over everybody else. Dismounting also makes lances useless half the time. I think I like the way Berwick Saga did it better, to be honest.

Fatigue's... eh. I don't particularly like it, but it does more to encourage a varied team than just about any other game in the series, so there's that.

Dark FoW is bleh.

Inability to change the initial formation is a bitch in 99% of the maps. Probably the only one I hate. There are a couple maps where it's fitting in the context of the story, which are really the only reason I don't use the patch that fixes this, but most of the time it just doesn't make any sense.

Single RN is honest and doesn't make me have to do math to know what I'm really looking at. It makes things simpler. Also, games with 1RN help a little to combat that nasty habit of believing that hitrates over 80 are a guaranteed hit, and hitrates below 40 are a sure miss.

In summary, a few of them aren't so great, but... why do people consider them to be such a big deal, again? Capture is the only one that really shakes things up, and capturing is awesome. Everything else ranges from being inconvenient at times to being completely irrelevant. I'd say Thracia has bigger issues than staves missing.

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Fog of War: I wish FE handled FoW in a fair manner, kind of like how Berwick Saga does. If the player cannot move into darkness and attack then the enemy should not either. This is not even mentioning how you can lose your turn entirely if you bump into an enemy. FoW as implemented in FE games does not enhance the gameplay or story in any meaningful way, it's primarily a restriction on the player. This is more of a FE critique than a Thracia critique in general, to be fair. 

Staves: I kind of like how FE5 Staves/Staff Users are balanced. Fatigue and Weapon Rank management are interesting when paired together. Early game staff misses are irritating though, especially in an Ironman setting. 

Deployment Restrictions: I love and hate how Thracia handles deployments. On one end it makes sense from a story perspectivelike in theManster Arcthat you wouldn't get to deploy units in the formations you would want. By contrast, it makes no sense that you couldn't deploy units in battle formation, that is to say, select where you want your units to start off in chapters like Chapters 8/9/13/18, etc.  

Fatigue: A good mechanic, though it's basically a non-issue with proper deployment management/Stamina Drinks. It would be awful for a blind run/casual runner since you can't just stomp every map with 2-4 combat units. 

Indoor maps/Dismounting: Handled mostly well in my opinion. The lack of good indoor lance users kind of stings (excluding Xavier who you get in Chapter 18 and may never see combat if you're playing fast). It's nice having a game where Fliers/Riders don't stomp the entire game. 

Skills: Having a completely reliable Wrath (Earth Sword/Nosferatu shenanigans), or Vantage+ is nice. Most of the other skills are either useless (Nihil), dangerous to use (Charge), or redundant (Adept) by virtue of the units you want to have the skill (like Asvel/Homer/Lief) already having/getting them.  Paragon on a unit like Orsin is amazing, though.

Minimum and Maximum Hit Values: In my opinion, It doesn't have a large impact on gameplay, for the most-part. Though it can be annoying to fail to kill/capture/dodge when you need to and/or other factors make it necessary. 

Capturing: I wish it would make a return. 

Movement Stars: Pretty annoying when bosses/strong enemies have them and is seldom useful in the player's hands because their activation rate (5% per star) is not high enough to warrant factoring them into a coherent strategy. Cool in theory, annoying in practice. 

Leadership Stars: They should make a permanent return; movement stars add a lot of depth to the story and gameplay, even if they can be pretty annoying in... certain instances. 

Magic and Resistance as one stat: It works in the context of Thracia but would be awful in every other FE title. It should not make a return. 

Rescuing limitations: Units will have reduced movement if they carry a unit that has 50% or more of the their own constitution. It makes sense to have a system like this and can even give value to a skill like Saviour (which doesn't exist in Thracia) but units getting an excess of constitution can make rescue/ferry strats a little cumbersome. I'm indifferent on this aspect of Thracia.  

Single RN: All FE games should be single RN. Players should be able to accurately and quickly calculate then act on risk/information without being mislead and/or coddled. Don't @ me.

Weapon/Item Diversity: Tharcia has a surprising amount of weapon diversity. It's not diversity for its own sake, either; most of the weapons/items are actually useful. Fire Swords to boost magic (Amalda + Staves, anyone?), Elite Sword to boost defense and xp gain, King Sword for its Charisma skill and Brave effect, accessible Master and Brave weapons, loads of useful personal weapons and items like the Grafcalibur, Light Brand, Pugi, Forseti, Earth Sword, Theif Staff, Repair Staff, etc. And of course mainstays like the Warp staff makes many appearances in Thracia. FE games should take a page out of Thracia's book on how to handle weapons/items, for the most part.

Feel free to agree/disagree. 

 

 

Edited by Mavi251
Small spelling corrections for clarity.

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2 hours ago, Mavi251 said:

Indoor maps/Dismounting: Handled mostly well in my opinion. The lack of good indoor lance users kind of stings (excluding Xavier who you get in Chapter 18 and may never see combat if you're playing fast). It's nice having a game where Fliers/Riders don't stomp the entire game. 

Xavier has an E rank in Lances, so while he is a pretty good unit, it will take forever for his Lance rank to level up so he can use stronger lances.

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9 hours ago, The Roger The Paladin said:

Not even going into Final Fantasy II, which had legitimately bad gameplay due to a poor "levelling" system (if you can call it that), but really had a much better story than the generic 1 or 3.

Ah yes FF2, where you name 4 characters at the start, but only have three characters for most of the game, so you figure levelling guests is pointless, and you kill em off immediately to take their cool stuff and preserve exp. (that game was balanced around having experience divided by 4 so you just snap it in half by killing the guests.) (It doesn't even affect the difficulty of the extra episode (besides minwu caving in a few extra hits). Not to mention that you can use the chocobo forest to go to mysidia as soon as kashuan is available and buy some endgame gear like the flame bow and just utterly destroy any remaining pretence of difficulty. 

 

As for the topic. 

  • Capture has already been stated to be great. 
  • Fatigue is weirdly a mechanic I like a lot. Most of the time only one or two units are ever fatigued except for staff users but you have enough of them to swap them in and out. To me fatigue is less of a punishment for using x unit so much but more of a system to prevent healgrinding and stealgrinding, you can still do these things but it makes you think a little bit before you have safy heal that 1hp lithis gained from levelling up. Also it stops Dean from being completely broken. (not that it exclusively affects him, I'm just happy that ‘wyvern good and strong and best' doesn't apply as much.) 
  • Min deployment just makes it so that “imma just use Seth" that Fe8 suffered from isn't as good an option anymore. You can still lowman, it's just a bit harder as you have to look after 6 other people. Would have been better if you could actually swap units though. 
  • Staff missing just makes it so you have to plan around, and that you can't just go, he's fine, I can heal him as much.  (Vulneraries are good enough in this game that you can just ignore staves if you want to anyway. ) it also gives you a reason to promote to the laughably bad (combatwise) high priestess/Schroff's class with their E rank light magic. 
  • The 1-99% doesn't come into play that often and I feel it spices up the game a little (there are no pointless actions) might have worked well with minimum 1 damage from gaiden. 

 

Thracia has a bunch of interesting and cool core mechanics that make it unique, not better, not worse just different. 

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I forgot to add staff misses to my former comment.

I have to say it doesn't bother me as much anymore as it did at first.

  1. Weapons can miss, so why staves shouldn't?
  2. Vulneraries are amazing in this game since they heal full HP.
  3. It only matters very early for low leveled units like Safiya and especially Tina. Just give them a skill ring and skill scroll, and they won't miss anymore.
  4. Enemy staff users can miss too. And this will happen more often than to the allies. So why not seeing the positive backside?
Edited by Reisalin Stout

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2 minutes ago, Reisalin Stout said:

I forgot to add staff misses to my former comment.

I have to say it doesn't bother me as much anymore as it did at first.

  1. Weapons can miss, so why staves shouldn't?
  2. Vulneraries are amazing in this game since they heal full HP.
  3. It only matters very early for low leveled units like Safiya and especially Tina. Just give them a skill ring and skill scroll, and they won't miss anymore.
  4. Enemy staff users can miss too. And this will happen more often than to the allies. So why not seeing the positive backside?

Because I think it's a dumb mechanic overall.  Nor do I really care to hear any counter-arguments, because this is the wrong hill to die on.

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I really don't get the hate against fatigue as it really does help people like Rald and there are S-Drinks anyhow.

Dismounting, however, is annoying if you like lances and it does make indoor chapters more boring. Berwick Saga handles it way better.

13 hours ago, forsettipatty said:

it's also realistic because nobody fucking brings horses inside castles dismounted knights typically don't fight with lances, but with swords, since lances are usually a cavalry thing. Not only does it make sense but it's also a very good balancing mechanic against cav spam that you'd see in games like fe4 and fe7, where they have 0 limitations and are typically the best units. I wish RD brought back dismounting; they did a decent job of limiting cavalry indoors, but not being able to travel up ledges at all kind of sucked

People like Finn or Glade shouldn't discard all their training and fight with a weapon they're not even good the minute they get off a horse.

Bs_fe05_enemy_soldier_lance.png

Most of the Lances in FE are actually spears/not exclusively mounted weapons. Only the Horseslayer/Ridersbane in FE5 would qualify as a jousting lance. If fodder like the countless enemy soldiers can use lances, why not professional knights specialized in spears like Finn? Again this is something handled better in Berwick Saga, where mounted classes keep spears on dismount. The only weapon they lose access to are jousting lances which use spear rank and wouldn't be effective weapons on foot anyhow as jousting lance damage is based off movement.

Edited by Emperor Hardin

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For me fatigue has one problem: Certain events need a certain character, and if that character is fatigued: GG. So instead, Fatigue should nerf characters quite a bit but still be useable.

As for other mechanics:

  • I love capturing
  • I love Con and Mov Growths
  • I love Authority star (which are also in FE4 and FE10, even if different)
  • love growth scrolls
  • love min. deployment
  • ok-ish on Mov Stars
  • love dismounting, but hate forced Sword lock.
  • Hate Staves missing
  • despise with a passion 1-99 hit
  • despise Same turn reinforcements
  • despise warp tiles or any thing the player can not see coming
  • despise being soft locked due to doors
  • despise deployment position lock.

so it's a mix.

Edited by Shrimperor

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