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In which games / situations are status affecting staves useful?

Status affecting staves  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. In which game is sleep, silence, berserk good?

    • FE4
      13
    • FE5
      15
    • FE6
      11
    • FE7
      1
    • FE8
      0
    • FE9
      2
    • FE10
      4
    • Fates (freeze instead of above mentioned staves)
      8
    • FE12
      3
    • FE3
      1
  2. 2. How should the accuracy formula of status affecting staves be?

    • 100%, if user's magic > enemy's magic
      9
    • variable accuracy like in (FE6-10, Fates)
      11
  3. 3. Should status affecting staves last till the end of a chapter?

    • yes
      1
    • no
      19


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Since I am a big fan of these, I must be honest they have almost no practical uses in some FE games.

They are only really amazing im Jugral simply they cannot miss due to its own formula.

In Conquest the freeze staff is a lifesaver too.

Though in most other games (can't speak about the first three parts), I hardly ever used them.

Many people would bring Douglas, but even hitting him was a pain in the ass. Playing a weak sword user in his range was the better option.

FE10 has one chapter where the sleep staff is useful, 3-13. Ike can be put asleep which makes it easier to beat the chapter before 15 turns are passed. You get a silence staff once it's pretty much irrelevant by fighting mainly enemies with a high resistance.

 

Edited by Reisalin Stout

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Speaking solely for Fates (mostly Conquest, but in general too):

The Freeze staff is pretty good. Don´t wanna deal with an enemy? Done. Need to catch up to an enemy (perhaps Chapter 8)? There you go.

Entrap also is useful, especially for breaking up enemy formations.

Silence is nice because the enemy does enjoy status staffs quite a bit; getting a Silence staff in Conquest might alleviate Hex-staff troubles I imagine (not actually sure whether or not Staff Savant nulls Silence effect).

I quite like Enfeeble. Only Problem I have with it is, that it only unlocks after Chapter 13 I think? Which is a shame cuz at the very least Ryoma and any paired up enemy before Chapter 13   don´t seem to like it, should memory serve correctly.

 

As for the duration of staves: depends whether or not  there is a way to get rid of their effects in some way. Having a permanently silenced Mage/Healer would suck. Being able to get rid of it, through, let´s say a vulnerary-ish consumable would be nice, instead of having to use a - is it the Restore staff in the games? - staff. Whose user could totaly be silenced.

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That being said, FE12's Silence has the following properties:

1. It's in a very out-of-the-way location.
2. Its hit rate is guaranteed.
3. Its range is "every single spellcaster on the map".  Including yours.

The reason why I wanted it in is because there's an enemy-only tome that's Luna on steroids, and one particular map has way too many of them.  Being able to tell all of them to simultaneously STFU is great, even if it's highly situational.

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Staff accuracy is something I'm iffy on, mainly because of the GBA games and their very iffy hit rates. One thing I don't like seeing is staffs hit a target with higher Res than their Magic. I would much rather the game just force hit to 0 in that case.

In particular, I think Silence should always hit. Magic units tend to be the hardest targets for status staffs, it's specifically designed to counter them, and in many games it coexists with the all-around better Sleep.

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One instance I see where status staves are useful is definitely FE6.

The sleep staff can be a most handy tool, especially on hard mode where there may be one enemy left alive who can pick off one of your units, just sleep them and problem solved. Specifically in that game since you're doing everything you can to kill as many enemies possible in player phase. It can also help delay Douglas in Chapter 16 if he's catching up to your thief busy robbing the chests. Silence is also useful for many Bolting mages or enemy status staff users who may be annoying to deal with, and it could conserve some sleep staff if you use that on them instead plain putting them to sleep. I always put the berserk staff to use in either Ilia or Sacae. In Sacae, the open fields full of nomads make it so that berserking one of the Nomad Troopers could potentially kill some of their own, and there's that one Hero in Chapter 20 Ilia surrounded by other red units.

As for the formula for hitrates, as good as having 100% if your magic is high enough is good, this also applies to enemies, which honestly is more annoying than helpful, especially in FE4 where enemy status staff users come in groups and they have infinite uses, or in FE5 where the first time you deal with one is Salem in chapter 12, at which point you don't even have a restore staff.

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17 hours ago, eclipse said:

FE12 is missing (Silence).

And by extension FE3 is still missing.

Anyway, I'd say 4, 5, and 6 are the ones where they get the most practical use. In FE4 because they're repairable and insanely reliable ways to deal with certain enemies, in FE5 because they're essentially a perpetual motion machine of free shit thanks to capturing and the only real way to deal with enemy status staff users, and in 6 because enemies can be hard to one-round, so having a reliable way to instantly neutralize enemies is extremely useful in certain situations.

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Haven't played FE3.

Didn't expect the NES games featured that modern things.

 

I'm kinda curious why staves in FE6 shall be that good since the staff users have really poor magic, so poor accuracy.

I find them the worst of all GBA parts although they could have the biggest use if they had the accuracy.

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16 minutes ago, Reisalin Stout said:

 

I'm kinda curious why staves in FE6 shall be that good since the staff users have really poor magic, so poor accuracy.

I find them the worst of all GBA parts although they could have the biggest use if they had the accuracy.

To list all the things that come to mind

  • FE6 has 5 extra range on all ranged staves compared to the other GBA games
  • FE6 staff accuracy is less penalized by range, and more impacted by magic/resistance
  • Non-magic enemies tend to have embarrassingly bad resistance, making staff users meager magic reasonable (and that's without mentioning Niime or Yoder's solid base magic)
  • Accuracies in that game are bad enough that the lowish accuracy of status staves (baring the mostly useless silence staff) looks more reasonable
  • Basic enemies can be tough, or dodgy enough that disabling one with a staff could be easier than killing it.
  • This game has one of the earliest sleep staff in the series (chapter 10/11 depending on the route split) which makes it by far the most useful status staff in that game

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There is one situation I can think of where a status-effecting staff was not only useful, but pretty much essential: the sleep staff you get in Radiant Dawn immediately before the mission where the Dawn Brigade have to defend a castle from the Laguz Alliance and the Greil Mercenaries. That sleep staff is absolutely essential against the Greil Mercenaries; particularly Ike. 

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I can think of many situations where it sure would be nice to have the Berserk staff in PoR and RD.

 

Status staves are some of my favorite parts of the series, I think they're really fun and make your early game staff units more useful than they would be. I loved what FE5 did w status staves, they last till the end of the map so you need to bring restores or just go without a unit, and I also liked the 100% accuracy because it basically guaranteed your more powerful magic users weren't going to get sleeped/silenced/berserked so that you always retain your restore staff user. The biggest thing I liked about status staves in thracia was how freely you could obtain them, and use them.

 

FE6 with even more status staves, and warp / rewarp enemies would be a blast

 

I loved the Fates staves tho I wish there were more. Elise's freeze staff is so goddamn helpful in the conquest earlygame.

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26 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

To list all the things that come to mind

  • Non-magic enemies tend to have embarrassingly bad resistance, making staff users meager magic reasonable (and that's without mentioning Niime or Yoder's solid base magic)

Maybe it's just me, but even against enemies with the lowest resistance, units like Clarine have 40, maaaaabye 50% at best.

This is really poor, I have to say.

Even when the sleep staff is important - like in Douglas's chapter - you can't really benefit from all the buffs of the sleep staff since one major issue - poor user's magic - cancels all other advantages out.

This is how I experienced the sleep staff in this game.

Once Niime is there, I can agree that the sleep staff can be really decent.

11 minutes ago, forsettipatty said:

I can think of many situations where it sure would be nice to have the Berserk staff in PoR and RD.

FE9 is another game I never really used any status affecting staff, simply there never has been a situation when it's needed.

Chapter 26 might be a decent chapter for the sleep staff since it's a open map with enemies coming of all directions who can surround.

 

In FE10, Micky would love it.

Berserked Ike in 3-13 would be hilarious, if he killed Soren.

Edited by Reisalin Stout

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1 hour ago, Reisalin Stout said:

I'm kinda curious why staves in FE6 shall be that good since the staff users have really poor magic, so poor accuracy.

Personally, I find that Saul will usually have enough magic to sleep anyone with 90% hitrates or higher. (Of course, I always make sure that Saul has high enough magic to allow me to warpskip 14x, which I believe is 15 points of magic, not too hard to get after promotion.) There's also a whole slew of staff users later on in the game; if you get Lilina to C or B in staves, there ain't nobody who's easily dodging that, plus Niime and Yodel. (Of course for Lilina, that staff rank would be quite hard to get to without excessive grinding.) It's also helpful since Wyvern riders have low Res but godlike everything else, so a well-placed Berseerk or sleep goes a long way.

Point is, there is several quite good options for status-staffing that you always get, so you'll have options.

And of course Claine would fail she's Etrurian scum.

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5 minutes ago, Reisalin Stout said:

Maybe it's just me, but even against enemies with the lowest resistance, units like Clarine have 40, maaaaabye 50% at best.

This is really poor, I have to say.

Even when the sleep staff is important - like in Douglas's chapter - you can't really benefit from all the buffs of the sleep staff since one major issue - poor user's magic - cancels all other advantages out.

This is how I experienced the sleep staff in this game.

Clarine is the lowest magic staff user in the game, and each point of magic is +6 accuracy, so Saul and Ellen reach noticeably higher accuracy if trained.

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They pretty much stopped being useful after FE6. Enemies are too easy to kill in Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones to warrant them. Path of Radiance isn't much better on that front. They come too late to be any practical use in Radiant Dawn. That being said, Silence is useful in Mystery to shut up annoying long range mages, of which I'm sure there are a lot of in the final chapters (3-10 range magic is annoying as hell in a game where resistance values are shit for pretty much everyone).

22 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

I quite like Enfeeble. Only Problem I have with it is, that it only unlocks after Chapter 13 I think? Which is a shame cuz at the very least Ryoma and any paired up enemy before Chapter 13   don´t seem to like it, should memory serve correctly.

In the case of paired up enemies, they'd most likely switch to their partner, who'd be unaffected.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

In the case of paired up enemies, they'd most likely switch to their partner, who'd be unaffected.

I suppose I should have elaborated more in regard to Enfeeble.

It makes things easier to kill. Killing enemies, especially enemies that are dangerous or in some other way remarkable (killing Ryoma in chapter 12 being optional, but sweet loot) is something, that seems to be done best on Player Phase.

Now that I think about it, another neat purpose might be enhancing Niles` ability to play pokemon (-4SPD/DEF to the enemy not looking irrelevant for him).

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4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

I suppose I should have elaborated more in regard to Enfeeble.

 

It makes things easier to kill. Killing enemies, especially enemies that are dangerous or in some other way remarkable (killing Ryoma in chapter 12 being optional, but sweet loot) is something, that seems to be done best on Player Phase.

 

Now that I think about it, another neat purpose might be enhancing Niles` ability to play pokemon (-4SPD/DEF to the enemy not looking irrelevant for him).

Okay then. Personally, though, I'm kinda jaded on status staves - in most other RPGs, more often than not, status effects are a waste of a turn. Especially in the cases where they'd actually be helpful. Fire Emblem doesn't seem to be much better about this, especially since in most games you only get one copy of a status staff, if you get any at all. Regarding Enfeeble, by the time it's relevant, Corrin's likely close to promoting and getting Draconic Hex, which has the same effect, except I don't have to worry about missing or running out.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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On 4/1/2020 at 3:18 PM, Imuabicus said:

The Freeze staff is pretty good. Don´t wanna deal with an enemy? Done. Need to catch up to an enemy (perhaps Chapter 8)? There you go.

Entrap also is useful, especially for breaking up enemy formations.

You missed that Freeze also lowers Avoid!
One can always kill Ryoma in Chapter 6 (for Sakura grants insignificant Exp) by stationing Leo next to him and letting Elise freeze him. Boom!

Freeze does wonders on Chapter 23 and 26, where enemies move in packs. Also, Freeze and Entrap trivialise Chapter 25: Just pull the units wielding Spy weapons, or break a Lunge Chain or formation.

Both are a must for smaller parties.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 3:18 PM, Imuabicus said:

getting a Silence staff in Conquest might alleviate Hex-staff troubles

The thing is that you only get two Silence staves in the whole campaign, and the worst offender, Ch 24’s Azama, is too far from you to actually “tank” his hexing while your party reaches him.
(And, fuck Hex’s accuracy! I am fine with its duration, but it hardly ever fails!)

 

On 4/1/2020 at 3:18 PM, Imuabicus said:

I quite like Enfeeble. Only Problem I have with it is, that it only unlocks after Chapter 13 I think?

Is it not inside an early treasure box? I never use it and would never buy it, but I still have one in my inventory every time. 😂

 

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16 hours ago, Reisalin Stout said:

Maybe it's just me, but even against enemies with the lowest resistance, units like Clarine have 40, maaaaabye 50% at best.

This is really poor, I have to say.

Even when the sleep staff is important - like in Douglas's chapter - you can't really benefit from all the buffs of the sleep staff since one major issue - poor user's magic - cancels all other advantages out.

This is how I experienced the sleep staff in this game.

Once Niime is there, I can agree that the sleep staff can be really decent.

I JUST used that Sleep staff on Chapter 16 Hard.  Saul wasn't particularly RNG blessed with magic IIRC.  Got him to 89% hit with Sleep on Douglas.

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On 4/2/2020 at 11:05 AM, Reisalin Stout said:

Maybe it's just me, but even against enemies with the lowest resistance, units like Clarine have 40, maaaaabye 50% at best.

This is really poor, I have to say.

Even when the sleep staff is important - like in Douglas's chapter - you can't really benefit from all the buffs of the sleep staff since one major issue - poor user's magic - cancels all other advantages out.

This is how I experienced the sleep staff in this game.

Once Niime is there, I can agree that the sleep staff can be really decent.

Yeah, FE6 status staffs are more slanted in the enemies' favor. Every magic user tends to have either bad magic or bad staff rank until Niime and Yoder, outside of Cecilia who's at an awkward middle ground on both. Poor enemy res only goes so far when the enemies you want to target most are other magic enemies who have good resistance. Meanwhile enemies benefit from generous magic growths and get to skip the staff rank grind. It can also be frustrating to have lower staff hit rates work against you, since the enemy has a lot more and every miss is a wasted charge.

That being said I will take FE6 enemy staff distribution other FE7/8 distribution any day.

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10 hours ago, eclipse said:

I JUST used that Sleep staff on Chapter 16 Hard.  Saul wasn't particularly RNG blessed with magic IIRC.  Got him to 89% hit with Sleep on Douglas.

Wow, I definitely ever had such a high hit for him.

 

I usually use Clarine - despite her worse magic - simply because of her better support options in person of Rutger.

Though I don't know how much the support influences the accuracy of staves since I'm not all that familar with GBA's support system.

1 hour ago, X-Naut said:

Yeah, FE6 status staffs are more slanted in the enemies' favor. Every magic user tends to have either bad magic or bad staff rank until Niime and Yoder, outside of Cecilia who's at an awkward middle ground on both. Poor enemy res only goes so far when the enemies you want to target most are other magic enemies who have good resistance. Meanwhile enemies benefit from generous magic growths and get to skip the staff rank grind. It can also be frustrating to have lower staff hit rates work against you, since the enemy has a lot more and every miss is a wasted charge.

That being said I will take FE6 enemy staff distribution other FE7/8 distribution any day.

FE6's staff distribution - especially for warp and rescue - is better for sure, but therefore at cost of unit's low magic.

Though for warp and rescue the low magic doesn't matter as much as for Status affecting staves.

Someone with 10 magic can warp as good as someone with 20 magic could in FE7 and 8.

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14 hours ago, starburst said:

Is it not inside an early treasure box? I never use it and would never buy it, but I still have one in my inventory every time. 😂

19 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

[...] Regarding Enfeeble, by the time it's relevant [...]

I did indeed feed people misinformation: an Enfeeble staff can be found in chapter 11 in the chest in Azama´s room. Just in time for weakening Ryoma.

19 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

[...] Corrin's likely close to promoting and getting Draconic Hex, which has the same effect, except I don't have to worry about missing or running out.

Oh Boy, two debuffs! Whatever shall we do? 

On a more serious note: I believe Corrin is most likely to promote either shortly (battle prep-shortly?) before, during or after chapter 15, it being the chapter of MC, Azura and Gunther. Which  then would take another few Levels for Corrin to get to Lv. 5 which might happen at chapter 19? Presuming Corrin stayed in Nohr Noble, ofc. Following that reasoning there´s ~7 (-Ch. 15) chapters of potentially enfeebling people. But then again, what do I know about when people promote their Corrins.

Let´s also not ignore  that enfeebling and Draconic Hex "work differently". Enfeeble is something you slap in an enemies face and be done. In AS that´s a total of +8 damage and a little addititonal accuracy, for the sudden lack of 4SPD/LCK (which translates into -6 Avoid I think, lol). Maybe also crit, but that´s not a calculation I´m willing to do.

On the other hand Draconic Hex is a debuff that will only be applied through combat (not 100% sure on AS). That mean´s the enemy survives our attack. This may be a personal thing, but i do NOT like being hit, for obvious and debuffing reasons. The main argument i can see for this is a tank-Corrin Fighting multiple enemies on EP, but again, just not my Cup of tea. The accuracy part is something I can´t argue against, tho.

As for Enfeeble running out, yeah… I´d say "Enfeeble to Kill" but I guess here may be a case of playstyles differing?

14 hours ago, starburst said:

The thing is that you only get two Silence staves in the whole campaign, and the worst offender, Ch 24’s Azama, is too far from you to actually “tank” his hexing while your party reaches him.

I skimmed through the fe.wiki.org but I could only find one though? In chapter 25 even, lol. Not in invasions, not in paralogues, only other place I found would be Rewards from Online-Play. As for Silence worthy targets I would think the Adventurers on Xanders map? Or Hayatos bum in chapter 20? I admit I thought of Azamas rude mouth too, but in Lunatic he gets moved to Hinokas "room", no?

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15 hours ago, starburst said:

The thing is that you only get two Silence staves in the whole campaign, and the worst offender, Ch 24’s Azama, is too far from you to actually “tank” his hexing while your party reaches him.

Far as I know, short of rewards, you only get one AFTER Azama's dealt with (chapter 25). Gee, thanks a bunch, game.

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10 hours ago, Reisalin Stout said:

Wow, I definitely ever had such a high hit for him.

 

I usually use Clarine - despite her worse magic - simply because of her better support options in person of Rutger.

Though I don't know how much the support influences the accuracy of staves since I'm not all that familar with GBA's support system.

Use units whose draw are their magic stat and staff rank, and status staves are way more effective.  The biggest influence on status staves IIRC are magic stat and distance to the target (the closer the better).  So if you're using someone like Clarine, of course it's gonna be bad!

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