SRPG Studio Game Improvement Survey

[Von Ithipathachai]

Hey again, everyone.  So Mangs recently said on Discord that he was unwilling to Let's Play SRPG Studio games other than Vestaria Saga simply because they were SRPG Studio games.  Sometime earlier, Ghast said that he would eventually start doing Let's Plays again, but would probably place SRPG Studio games in low priority outside of MAFC simply due to all the other hacks he wants to play first.

I do not agree with these decisions, but I ultimately respect them.  I'm not the one to tell them how they should be making content for their channels.  That said, this is very bad for people like me who are making Fire Emblem fangames/clones with the software and hoping for them to gain some respect and recognition from the fan project community at large, as we have now been largely denied two of the most effective sources of project exposure.  I have heard various reasons for this lack of acceptance such as perceived graphical inferiority to GBAFE hacks and framerate issues.  This survey is intended to gauge precisely the scale of the problem and how it can be addressed.

The survey

While I'm still here, I want to stress a few things:

• This is not about converting people who are already using FEBuilder or buildfiles or whatnot for making hacks to SRPG Studio.  I simply feel that a well-made Fire Emblem clone/fangame made with SRPG Studio should be just as deserving of attention as a well-made GBAFE hack.
• I acknowledge that I have a personal stake in this as somebody making a Fire Emblem clone with SRPG Studio himself.  But I do this in hopes that it will benefit the rest of the SRPG Studio community and help us determine an appropriate course of action.
• DO NOT ATTACK ANYBODY ON THE BASIS OF THEIR DECISION.  You probably won't change their mind and it's just a crass thing to do.

With that, thank you, and good evening.

[Nine the Ranger]

That is ultimately a little disappointing yet completely reasonable. On the surface SRPG studio is lacking some of the features of the GBA FE games but it possible with some of the plugins that the community has featured and with a little ingenuity. 

 

Admittedly the graphical complaint is both valid and a little silly at the same time. The GBA games do have quite good animations out of the box, and some of the community has done a phenomenal job in making custom sprites and animations, SRPG Studio on the other hand... Maybe not so much, the packaged resources are certainly serviceable to someone just wanting to get started and learn the ins and outs of the software they do leave me a bit wanting, but that is me personally. That said, custom animations and sprites do not seem to be any more difficult than creating ones for the GBA (That being said I have no experience with the GBA roms under the hood so feel free to let me know).

 

All in all I find the program to be an excellent option for someone wanting to get started while also being able to build their own fan, or even commercial, game from the ground up if they are willing to put in a little effort to learn the program.

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

the main issues i've seen so far with SRPG Studio is not the software itself, but rather the contents: from terrible map tiles graphics and barren battle animations, to lack of multiple options available through proper tutorials and overall performance.

i don't know if additional "DLCs" can eventually unlock more options and stuff available for creators, but for all i know the software has just been put on Steam without much thinking behind, except for being there just to take money off of people who are not familiar with rom hacking and are looking for an "easier" way out.

then, if you're good with programming and java, you can add your own custom stuff into it, otherwise you're left with no other options.

but who knows, maybe someday we'll get a proper fire emblem maker game from Nintento/Int Sys. i still have my fingers crossed about it.

 

in any case, i think what's keeping people away from those games is probably the fact that they may not be very interested in what the software has to offer at its current level.

in other words, you can't have a game with map tiles that look like they've been made in Paint( i swear the trees are probably the worst of the whole bunch ), and battle animations wich are beyond basic( i guess making default movesets was more than enough for the developers ). not even FE games from the SNES era were that bad visually.

that also leads me to believe that if someone ported map tiles/battle animations from SNES/GBA games into SRPG Studio, things would have seen a drastic change in terms of visuals and probably gained way more interest from people, but then Nintendo would sue the creators of their own fan-games to oblivion and beyond, so that would be out of question( even though downloading roms is technically "stealing", and therefore illegal ). we've seen that already happening with the Super Mario Royale game made by InfernoPlus.

long story short: you either get good in creating your own graphics, content and options for the game, or you get someone else to help you with it(or pay for it), or well...your game probably won't get much attention in a "default" SRPG Studio setup, unless you're a creator at the level of Kaga. and even then, it would probably attract mostly people that like retro and/or niché games.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Fenreir

[Von Ithipathachai]

I guess now is a good time to tell you guys the results so far.  As of this writing, 45 people have responded: 28 from FEUniverse (62.2%), 9 from Serenes Forest (20%), 5 from Mekkah's Keep (11.1%), and 3 from Ft. Mangs (6.7%).

42 respondents (93.3%) have Windows machines that they can use to play SRPG Studio games, so system compatibility is a negligible issue.

The reasons people have given for being put off from Fire Emblem fangames/clones made with SRPG Studio have had overwhelmingly to do with the perceived bad graphics.  Some sample responses:

Quote

The aesthetics (graphics, UI, etc.) just feel very bland. It's hard for SRPG Studio games to stand out as "unique" because they all have this generic look to them.

Quote

SRPG Studio is a bit clunky in my opinion. Everything feels like a prototype rather than an actual finished game. The music cuts off constantly when switching between scenes, the default animations are drab... It's not really the gameplay of the game so much as the aesthetics, which I know might sound petty but that's how I feel.

Quote

The default art assets are ugly, and people rarely replace them. SRPG Studio games generally don't get much attention, so I don't know if a game is any good or not. I don't like taking risks on unknowns. In other words, promotion of a game helps it.

Quote

Well if anything it's the visuals, Really SPRG Studio is a powerful Engine, Even stronger then FEGBA from what i've seen. the real problem comes from SRPG Studio lack of support by fans, there are barely if any Fan-made assets. Compare to the GBA Games which have been hacked to death and it being the first game in the west made people want to make there own using the engine. SRPG Studio comparatively doesn't have this and visuals are a huge part of this. They aren't nearly as bad as some made them out but they have there problems, mostly that there slow and aren't the most fluid compare to the GBA Animations.

Quote

The default map tiles and animations look terrible and most projects don't seem to replace them. Many also use either the default portraits or gba splices, which looks very unprofessional. They don't seem to have interesting stories but I think that's also true of most rom hacks.

Quote

The assets that most SRPG Studio projects use do not look good, including the default map tilesets, UI elements, etc. I do not know how in-depth the remaining systems are, but the entire engine gives off the impression of being very archaic - like, FE3-like levels of archaic. I have not seen a single project using SRPG Studio that has interested me in all facets (story, graphics, etc.). Outside of being able to release as a commercial product, I cannot think of a reason that I would use the engine at all, which does not inspire me to want to play anything made with it, either.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

All this said, despite the misgivings people have had about the graphics, 34 responders (so far, 75.6%) have said that they ARE willing to play a completed, full-length Fire Emblem fangame or clone made in SRPG Studio.  So I think it's still just as important to get a nice, full-length, decently well-made (in the context of mainly using RTP assets) game finished as it is to dump money into improved assets.  Therefore, I’ve concluded the SRPG Studio community has two goals.  The first is to figure out some way of procuring better-looking assets for use with the software, and the second is to get more full-length finished games out there.

MarkyJoe is one of the English SRPG Studio community's greatest allies, and so he is planning at the conclusion of another project of his for his artists to start working on a set of enhanced assets (mainly class graphics) for use with the software.  We're still trying to decide what they need to include and how they should be paid for.

I for my part just finished work on my MAFC project after fixing some bugs with the Weapon Ranks plugins, so I should be able to resume work on Sanctaea Chronicles soon.  It has 21 of 28 planned chapters finished, so hopefully I should be able to finish the rest of it soon.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Von Ithipathachai

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

i'm sure doing a re-design of the basic map tiles would already be a huge step forward, at least for all those presets related to environment. buildings should be fine as they are, at least for now, so that wouldn't be a priority.

as for battle animations, i can tell you that it probably wouldn't take much to improve them, because the problem is not the basic sprites, those are more than fine by themself. the issue is that those presets just lack additional frames in order to make the whole animation more fluid and run smoother.

of course, making talented artists create sprites from 0 could also be a good alternative. an example of that:

 

they're all pretty nice to look at, although the one at 11:36 is probably the best one in terms of motions and overall flow. even FEH animations are a joke compared to this.

something like that would be more than enough as a display for game promotion, and would probably get some people interested.

[GodSejeong97]

3 hours ago, Fenreir said:

...as for battle animations, i can tell you that it probably wouldn't take much to improve them, because the problem is not the basic sprites, those are more than fine by themself. the issue is that those presets just lack additional frames in order to make the whole animation more fluid and run smoother...

SapphireSoft actually released some of them in the Steam Workshop, albeit not as smooth as GBA FE animations.

[Von Ithipathachai]

4 hours ago, Fenreir said:

as for battle animations, i can tell you that it probably wouldn't take much to improve them, because the problem is not the basic sprites, those are more than fine by themself. the issue is that those presets just lack additional frames in order to make the whole animation more fluid and run smoother.

I'm not so certain.  Looking back at all the comments I got that were actually helpful, there seems to be as much disdain for the look of the default assets themselves as there is for the way they're animated.

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

19 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I'm not so certain.  Looking back at all the comments I got that were actually helpful, there seems to be as much disdain for the look of the default assets themselves as there is for the way they're animated.

yet people still played Vestaria Saga because "hurr durr, it's from Kaga". that should speak for itself.

 

in any case, you shouldn't rely too much on the overall opinion of just 45 people. that's a very small number that won't get you anywhere, especially because every person has different tastes and not everyone is open-minded, so you won't have a good ratio of what people really like/dislike on a bigger scale with just that.

then, it also depends on your goals: if you want to make a fan-game for about a hundred people just for the sake of it, that's one thing.

if you plan to do it for commercial purposes, that's a whole different story. in that case, you absolutely cannot rely only on fansites and the likes, and promoting the game will be your main focus once everything is done.

what makes a visual mess in SRPG Studio is mainly the difference in color palettes between the character sprites(map/battle), wich are mainly done in pixel art(and that's more than fine), and some of the environment map tiles wich are terrible in terms of renders, because they don't seem to be made in pixel art at all. same goes for battle backgrounds.

in the end, how you plan to develop your game is only your choice of course, but if graphics can be improved, i'd start working on map tiles first, then proceed with anything else that needs to be polished or changed.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Fenreir

[Von Ithipathachai]

1 hour ago, Fenreir said:

yet people still played Vestaria Saga because "hurr durr, it's from Kaga". that should speak for itself.

 

in any case, you shouldn't rely too much on the overall opinion of just 45 people. that's a very small number that won't get you anywhere, especially because every person has different tastes and not everyone is open-minded, so you won't have a good ratio of what people really like/dislike on a bigger scale with just that.

then, it also depends on your goals: if you want to make a fan-game for about a hundred people just for the sake of it, that's one thing.

if you plan to do it for commercial purposes, that's a whole different story. in that case, you absolutely cannot rely only on fansites and the likes, and promoting the game will be your main focus once everything is done.

what makes a visual mess in SRPG Studio is mainly the difference in color palettes between the character sprites(map/battle), wich are mainly done in pixel art(and that's more than fine), and some of the environment map tiles wich are terrible in terms of renders, because they don't seem to be made in pixel art at all. same goes for battle backgrounds.

in the end, how you plan to develop your game is only your choice of course, but if graphics can be improved, i'd start working on map tiles first, then proceed with anything else that needs to be polished or changed.

I'm still using the default assets for my game, at least so I can get the fully playable version out the door a little faster.  If by that point we've got enough better assets to use, I'll switch over to those.

[Shrimpica]

I know this might be a bit late, and dunno if you still want some feedback or not, but since i've been playing some SRPG studio games lately, i wanted to post my own problems with them:

• Biggest problem: Window Size. This really hurts the experience alot, everything being so small and not being able to change window size. I shouldn't feel like i am looking at something that will fit on a mobile screen while i am playing on PC. changing to Full screen in the ini file just stretches everything. (Altough tbf, in Sanctaea and Dangerous game you increased the window size, but still too small imo. In most other SRPG Studio games it's even smaller <.<.)
• 2nd Biggest: Overcopying FE. While it's an engine made mainly to make FE like games, It's able to do much more from what i've seen. Yet people seem to be copying FE 1 to 1, and are afraid to branch out. One of my fav. SRPG studio games is a 1 chapter game called 'The Siege of Lemond' that showcases what the engine is capable of and has pretty cool gimmicks (like Terrain manipulation, skills with cooldown, etc.).  Cool gimmicks and stuff i really don't to experience in normal FE games are sure to catch my eye much faster than typical FE stuff (not that there's anything wrong with that mind you, but so many hacks exist already, so sometimes i want something fresh, so to say). Tbf though, this is a problem with a lot of hacks, too. 
• Standard Music. Every fangame uses the standard tracks given by SRPG studio. Listening to the same tracks over and over does get tiring after a while
• Animation i am actually fine with, however Art style (portraits, for example) has to fit really. Most used art styles don't fit the system. Some like Vesteria saga for example do fit. And from what i've seen, there's a possibility to import FE sprites, tiles and stuff, yet people don't do that.

But yeah, those are my main gripes. Being able to change window size and make them bigger will help so much alone.

Hope that helps^^