Why I don't consider the Crimson Flower ending to be the best ending for Fodland

[Troykv]

23 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I haven't played AM, but pretty much every bit of talk between Dimitri and Edelgard is stupid. Have you seen Edelgard's unique boss conversation with Dimitri in Crimson Flower? Why couldn't the writers provide even 1 conversation between them that doesn't make at least one of them seem like an idiot?

The funny thing is that in the Japanese version Dimitri actually ends up being the dumber one in that particular confrontation.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Troykv

[Jingle Jangle]

7 minutes ago, Troykv said:

The funny thing is that in the Japanese version Dimitri actually ends up being the dumber one in that particular confrontation.

How so, if you don;t mind me asking?

[vanguard333]

25 minutes ago, Troykv said:

The funny thing is that in the Japanese version Dimitri actually ends up being the dumber one in that particular confrontation.

Really? Huh. Well, to quote @Jingle Jangle, how so, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[forest-sage]

On 4/3/2020 at 11:54 PM, omegaxis1 said:

Faerghus did not join the war to defend itself. It joined the war by allying itself with the Church, which the Empire was at war with. So no, in CF, the Empire never invaded Faerghus first. They attacked the Church, and the Church went to Faerghus and allied with them. Dimitri did so because he wanted revenge on the Empire for Duscur. So no, if anything, Faerghus was at fault for allying with them and basically making an enemy of the Empire as a result. And that decision resulted in Rhea being in Fhirdiad and her setting it on fire. 

Sorry for the late response. This may be how it played out, however, Edelgard sent bandits to attack the students, including Dimitri and Claude. She also requested the mock battle to be held by the church. It's pretty obvious Edelgard was planning to conquer and unite Fodlan from the get-go. She even made a comment to the professor about how nice it would be if the other nations didn't exist in part 1. We also have the notion that Claude and Dimitri, future leaders, as well as future noble heirs were in the church when it was initially attacked; hence they got attacked too. Regardless how it played out the other nations are in a position of self defense because regardless of what happens she intends to conquer them.
 

Edited August 2, 2020 by forest-sage

[omegaxis1]

6 hours ago, forest-sage said:

Sorry for the late response. This may be how it played out, however, Edelgard sent bandits to attack the students, including Dimitri and Claude. She also requested the mock battle to be held by the church. It's pretty obvious Edelgard was planning to conquer and unite Fodlan from the get-go. She even made a comment to the professor about how nice it would be if the other nations didn't exist in part 1. We also have the notion that Claude and Dimitri, future leaders, as well as future noble heirs were in the church when it was initially attacked; hence they got attacked too. Regardless how it played out the other nations are in a position of self defense because regardless of what happens she intends to conquer them.
 

First off, stop using the bandit argument. If she REALLY wanted Dimitri and Claude dead there, she'd have just sent the Death Knight, not some bandits. And she certainly wouldn't have followed Dimitri and Claude running off, away from the protection of the Knights of Seiros. In fact, several talks in Chapter 1 gives hefty implication that Edelgard's goal was not the death of anyone, but for the teacher to be removed, so that Jeritza can be installed as the professor. 

Also, Edelgard didn't request the mock battle. The Battle of Eagle and Lion is an annual event that happens every year. 

When did Edelgard say that comment about the other nations not existing? I never recall her mentioning that. 

So no, there wasn't any direct mention that Edelgard's plan was always to conquer Fodlan. Perhaps it was, or maybe it wasn't. Regardless, the fact of the matter is, Dimitri brought the war himself by allying with the Church. 

[forest-sage]

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

First off, stop using the bandit argument. If she REALLY wanted Dimitri and Claude dead there, she'd have just sent the Death Knight, not some bandits. And she certainly wouldn't have followed Dimitri and Claude running off, away from the protection of the Knights of Seiros. In fact, several talks in Chapter 1 gives hefty implication that Edelgard's goal was not the death of anyone, but for the teacher to be removed, so that Jeritza can be installed as the professor. 

Also, Edelgard didn't request the mock battle. The Battle of Eagle and Lion is an annual event that happens every year. 

When did Edelgard say that comment about the other nations not existing? I never recall her mentioning that. 

So no, there wasn't any direct mention that Edelgard's plan was always to conquer Fodlan. Perhaps it was, or maybe it wasn't. Regardless, the fact of the matter is, Dimitri brought the war himself by allying with the Church. 

1. At best it shows her incompetency of trusting a bunch of bandits to achieve anything. Remember at part 1 she is desperate and reckless running on anger. She hired the bandits to kill as many nobles as possible. She was not trying to "scare" the new professor. His emergence was unexpected. She says at much to Kostas afterwards during their conversation, blaming Kostas for not being able to deal with the unexpected. At the very least she is trying to make the church look bad from failing to protect the nobles.

2. My bad, phrasing. She didn't start the mock battles but she requested the battle be held at Grondor. If it is a coincidence they end up fighting there multiple times when the empire stations itself there first, then it is a good one.

3. I can't recall the exact quote, but I recall it was around or before the Flayn kidnapping. She mentions to Byleth something akin to how it would be nice if the other nations didn't exist (implying Foldlan would be better as a whole). In her speech mentions speech acquiring the throne she blames the other nations existence on the church from Rhea' interference (though it is important to factor in the other nations started rebelling before the church got involved). She also calls the other nations offshoots of the Empire. She sees the other nations existence as illegitimate from her perspective. She also intends to unify Foldan. So regardless how you look at it she was going to, or have to, conquer the other nations from the get go.

Edited August 2, 2020 by forest-sage

[omegaxis1]

Just now, forest-sage said:

1. At best it shows her incompetency of trusting a bunch of bandits to achieve anything. Remember at part 1 she is desperate and reckless running on anger. She hired the bandits to kill as many nobles as possible. She was not trying to "scare" the new professor. His emergence was unexpected. She says at much to Kostas afterwards during their conversation, blaming Kostas for not being able to deal with the unexpected. At the very least she is trying to make the church look bad from failing to protect the nobles.

Edelgard wasn't at all any of those things you said.

Edelgard sending in bandits to scare the professor off is smart. The only thing she didn't count on was Claude actually being an idiot that would run off at the first sign of trouble. Also, no, him leaving was counted on, because this attack happened while the three future leaders of the nations were around, which means that that would cause problems for the teacher. Explicitly stated by the characters when you talk in Chapter 1. Also, if you paid any attention to the conversation, you'd know that Edelgard didn't even stick around on the topic of "killing nobles" but was talking several times about Byleth being the new professor. 

Her goal was never to kill them. If it was, she would have not gone with them when they were chased by bandits. The entire point was to scare the professor off. 

Like, this entire game is about reading between the lines to realize there's more than meets the eye, not seeing everything at face value. Which is what you're doing. You hear Kostas and the Flame Emperor talking and hear Kostas saying that he was told to kill nobles, and seeing that, you think that was the objective. But when you look into the dialogue of things, you realize there's more to it. 

3 minutes ago, forest-sage said:

2. My bad, phrasing. She didn't start the mock battles but she requested the battle be held at Grondor. If it is a coincidence they end up fighting there multiple times when the empire stations itself there first, then it is a good one.

3. I can't recall the exact quote, but I recall it was around or before the Flayn kidnapping. She mentions to Byleth something akin to how it would be nice if the other nations didn't exist (implying Foldlan would be better as a whole nations at least). In her speech mentions speech acquiring the throne she blames the other nations existence on the church from Rhea' interference (though it is important to factor in the other nations started rebelling before the church got involved). She also calls the other nations offshoots of the Empire. She sees the other nations existence as illegitimate from her perspective. She also intends to unify Foldan. So regardless how you look at it she was going to or have to conquer the other nations from the get go.

You're saying things that make no sense. Because based on what you're saying, it sounds as if you're either saying something that is taken way out of context, or you're thinking she said that when she said something else. 

Edelgard never once said that she wished the other nations didn't exist. 

The WORST you have to go for is the prologue where the localization had her call the other nations "off-shoots" which is, again, a localization thing. 

Like, please quote where you're basing this on, or you're literally judging her on something you don't even have evidence on.