Moulder va Natasha Comparison

[Whisky]

Someone asked for this but it wasn’t on the right topic, so I’m going to make this here. I’ll jump straight into it and then anyone who wants to is welcome to have a discussion about it.

First of all, both of them are primarily Staff users, and honestly, you probably won’t notice a significant difference between them. You can use either one of them and they can both perform their primary functions just fine. But there are differences between them that are interesting to look at.

Join Time

Moulder is available from Ch 2. Natasha isn’t available until Ch 5. I’ll leave it up to the readers to determine how much value you want to put on a unit for being able to contribute for a few extra battles. I think it’s far more interesting to compare them when they are both available. Those few extra battles are relevant to that comparison though because it means that Moulder has a few battles to get a lead on exp and Staff rank. Moulder can easily gain at least one level during these battles, bringing him up to level 4, by the time Natasha joins at level 1.

The Initial Comparison

Here are Natasha’s base stats and Moulder’s averages at level 4.

_HP_Mag_Skl_Spd_Luc_Def_Res_Staff Rank

Moulder

20.7_4.4__6.6_9.4__1.2_2.3__5.3__C+

Natasha

_18___2___4___8____6___2____6___D

There isn’t any significant difference, especially since you should try to keep them out of combat as much as possible. They should both serve their function of healing well enough. Moulder does heal 2 more points, so he could be considered slightly better. More importantly, he starts with a base C rank in Staves. His Staff rank will always be higher than hers. He will be able to use Warp Staves sooner or any other type of Staff like Physics. She might have enough time to increase her rank high enough before you get these staves anyway though. I’m not sure.

The Level Gap

Moulder is 3 levels higher than Natasha. You might think it makes sense to compare  them at a particular level at the same level. However, Moulder will remain 3 levels higher than Natasha, at least until they promote. A level gap is not something that goes away. Any exp the lower level unit gets could been given to the higher level unit to stay ahead. This is especially true for Staff users. Other units can at least reduce the gap by gaining more exp from kills, but Staff users continue to gain the same amount of exp from using Staves, no matter what level they are. Moulder will always remain 3 levels higher than Natasha, at least until they promote, but even then he will remain higher level. Therefore, Moulder should always be compared at 3 levels higher than Natasha.

Moulder at Level 10

When Moulder is level 10, Natasha will be level 7. The average stats are:

_HP__Mag_Skl__Spd___Luc__Def__Res

Moulder

24.9__6.8__9.5__11.8__2.4___3.8__6.8

Natasha

_21___5.6__5.5__10.4__9.6___2.9__9.3

The differences are still not too big for units that shouldn’t be in combat, but the obvious advantage for Moulder is that he can promote now if you want to early promote him. Natasha doesn’t get that choice. In addition to the stat bonuses, this means that he can start contributing in combat which can make him more useful and provide him opportunities to gain more exp. I will assume he promotes to Bishop because it makes the comparisons easier and has better promotion bonuses. Sage can use Anima which is better than Light Magic. I might bring up Sage occasionally later, but for the most part, I will assume he is a Bishop. Here are his 10/1 Bishop averages:

_HP__Mag_Skl__Spd___Luc__Def__Res

Moulder

27.9__8.8_10.5__11.8__2.4___6.8__8.8

Of course, promoting him now has the disadvantage of reducing his exp gain, but at least it’s an option for him if you want to. You don’t need to. Natasha doesn’t get this choice.

Natasha at Level 10

At whatever point in the game Natasha reaches level 10, if you had been using Moulder instead, he would be Level 13. The unprompted stats don’t seem to be as important anyway, so I’ll skip those and just look at the averages of 13/1 Bishop Moulder and 10/1 Bishop Natasha. Natasha can promote to Valkyrie instead which gives her 1 more Move and higher Aid for Rescue/Dropping. This is an advantage she can have over Moulder that he doesn’t have any way to directly compete with. Valkyrie also gives her 1 more point of Mag. I will be assuming she promotes to Bishop because it makes the comparison easier. Valkyrie also loses out on the Slayer ability and higher Staff rank. Their averages are:

__HP__Mag_Skl__Spd___Luc__Def__Res

Moulder

__30___10___12___13____3____7.5__9.5

Natasha

_25.5__8.4__8.3__12.6__11.4__5.4__9.3

Moulder has 11 Con. Natasha has 5. She has 6 as a Valkyrie but also 1 less Spd so her AS would stay the same. Alright, we can finally compare their combat. Moulder has very low Luc. Most enemies have very low Crit rates in this game so that usually shouldn’t be an issue but it might be a small issue occasionally. Moulder is quite a bit more durable. They won’t be your frontline fighters anyway, and they can attack at range with their magic so they should often be able to avoid counters anyway, but is nice for him to be able to survive an extra hit when he needs too. Their Res is almost the same. Moulder has about 1-2 more Mag. Spd is similar but Natasha gets weighed down.

With Lightning, Moulder will have 14 Atk, 13 AS. Natasha will have 12.4 Atk, 11.6 AS. With Shine, Moulder will have 16 Atk, 13 AS. Natasha will have 14.4 Atk, 9.6 AS. Moulder also has higher Hit and Crit. As a Valkyrie, Natasha has 1 more Atk but that’s still less than Moulder’s and she still has lower AS, although the higher Move is always nice to have. If you make Moulder a Sage he can wield Thunder and have 17 Atk, 13 AS, or with Elfire, he would have 19 Atk, 13 AS.

Moulder is also slightly more effective with Staves. Slightly more range on Warp/Physic/Rescue, and slightly more healing.

Natasha at 15/1, Moulder at 18/1

Let’s compare them at a higher level. If you wait longer to promote, you can promote Natasha at level 15. Moulder will still be 3 levels higher at level 18. The averages after promoting are:

__HP__Mag__Skl___Spd__Luc___Def__Res

Moulder

_33.5___12__14.5___15____4____8.8__10.8

Natasha

__28___11.4__9.5__14.6__14.4__6.1__15.7

Moulder’s Luc could still be an issue in some situations but he is also much more durable than her. She has more Res, but he kind of makes up for that with higher HP. It depends on how many magic enemies are attacking them at a time. Moulder should probably be fine against magic attacks. He still has slightly higher Mag and Spd. His higher Skl gives him 10% more Hit.

With Lightning, Moulder has 16 Atk, 15 AS. Natasha has 15.4 Atk, 13.6 AS. With Shine, Moulder has 18 Atk, 15 AS. Natasha has 17.4 Atk, 11.6 AS. As a Valkyrie, Natasha has slightly higher Atk than Moulder, but only barely and still low AS. As a Sage, Moulder can use Thunder and have 19 Atk, 15 AS, or use Elfire and have 21 Atk, 15 AS.

Moulder is clearly superior in combat and is slightly more effective with Staves. He is generally more durable but might have issues against some enemies with higher Crit rayes. Natasha can be a Valkyrie for Rescue/Dropping utility.

Natasha at 15/5, Moulder at 18/5

Let’s compare them again at a higher level. The averages at these levels are:

_HP___Mag___Skl___Spd__Luc_Def__Res

Moulder

_36.3__13.6__16.5__16.6__4.8__9.8__11.8

Natasha

__30___13.8__10.5__16.2__16.8__6.7__17.9

Natasha has barely surpassed Moulder in Mag. The comparison is pretty much the same everywhere else. Moulder is more durable but has bad Luc. Natasha has high Res. Moulder has higher Hit rates, and higher AS. He can also have higher Atk than Natasha by promoting to Sage and using Anima tomes. Moulder is still better in combat from his higher AS and even more so as a Sage with higher Atk and AS. He is also significantly more durable than Natasha but you will have to watch enemies’ Crit chances against him. She is very good at tanking magic attacks or status staves.

15/10 Natasha, 18/10 Moulder

The averages are:

_HP__Mag___Skl___Spd__Luc__Def__Res

Moulder

39.8__15.6___19___18.6___5.8__11___13

Natasha

32.5__16.8__11.8__18.2__19.8__7.5__20.7

The comparison is mostly the same. Natasha does have a small lead in Mag and might be slightly more effective with Staves. She might have 1 more range with Warp. If you really want a good Warper, Artur is better for the job. Moulder is only barely any worse with Staves than Natasha. That 1 point in Warp range is really the only difference. Most enemies in the final battle on Hard mode have around 5-6 Crit so Moulder’s Luc usually shouldn’t be a problem, but again, you will need to pay attention enemies’ Crit chances against him, especially if he gets Luc screwed.

Natasha can now have about 1 more Atk than Moulder. Moulder can make up that difference as a Sage but he would lose the Slayer ability. 1 Atk isn’t much difference. Moulder still has more AS and more Hit.

With Lightning, Moulder has 19.6 Atk, 18.6 AS. Natasha has 20.8 Atk, 17.2 AS. With Shine Moulder has 21.6 Atk, 18.6 AS. Natasha has 22.8 Atk, 15.2 AS. With Divine, Moulder has 23.6 Atk, 17.6 AS. Natasha has 24.8 Atk, 11.2 AS. With Thunder, Moulder has 22.6 Atk, 18.6 AS. With Elfire, Moulder has 24.6 Atk, 18.6 AS. With Ivaldi, Moulder has 32.6 Atk, 18.6 AS. Natasha has 33.8 Atk, 13.2 AS. With Excalibur, Moulder has 32.6 Atk, 21.6 AS.

Oh I just realized, promoting Moulder to Sage instead of Bishop means that he loses out on the Slayer ability, however Excalibur is effective against monsters anyway.

Conclusion

Natasha has the advantage of being able to get a horse, giving her 7 Move and better Rescue/Dropping utility. She also makes a good tank against magic attacks or status staves, but I don’t think that’s necessary.

Moulder has very low Luc and may face Crit chances against some enemies. This shouldn’t usually be an issue, but you will need to pay attention to enemies’ Crit chances against him.

Moulder is much more physically durable and his higher HP makes him just as capable at surviving a single magic attack as Natasha.

There is very little difference in their effectiveness with Staves.

Moulder is much better in combat, with much higher AS and Hit rates, and having slightly higher Atk throughout most of the game with Natasha only barely surpassing his Atk at very high level. 

Moulder also starts with higher Staff rank and can promote earlier if you choose to.

Discussion

Please discuss your thoughts about these two characters. Is there anything I missed or anything else you want to add? 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Whisky

[eclipse]

This is nigh-unreadable on Night Forest.

If you want to do a stat comparison table, you can use the Code option (the button just to the left of the smiley face), then choose No Syntax Highlighting.  You'll see the following:

Name      Class   Affinity
----      -----   --------
Natasha   Cleric  Ice
Moulder   Priest  Anima

Still looks terrible on Night Forest, but stat tables should be the smallest part of your argument.

[Whisky]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

This is nigh-unreadable on Night Forest.

If you want to do a stat comparison table, you can use the Code option (the button just to the left of the smiley face), then choose No Syntax Highlighting.  You'll see the following:

Name      Class   Affinity
----      -----   --------
Natasha   Cleric  Ice
Moulder   Priest  Anima

Still looks terrible on Night Forest, but stat tables should be the smallest part of your argument.

Oh dang. I made sure it looked decent as far as I could see. Thanks for the info. I’ll try that out next time. I have no idea way the text got bigger after the first part either. I did summarize everything from the  stat tables in the following paragraphs though. The stat tables only compliment the text.

[PyroPlazma]

You forgot Moulders mustache

[Whisky]

On 4/12/2020 at 5:55 PM, PyroPlazma said:

You forgot Moulders mustache

Good point. I forgot to talk about that. Moulder’s mustache is pretty high tier throughout the series. Natasha doesn’t even have a mustache. How lame is that?

[jeigansucksexp]

a few crucial points:

1) fe8 healers level immensely slow. maps go by too fast, while healing exp is terrible. thus a comparison between, say, 15/10 nat vs 18/10 moulder is largely useless, since unless you slow down immensely, you won't be able to reach anywhere near those levels. in fact, usually i find moulder only promotes in the very late game, and natasha not at all.

2) the only important stat between them is magic. they spend most of their existence unpromoted, so every other parameter besides staffing (i.e. mag) is useless. even after promotion, they likely have received very little levels as mentioned before, so their combat will be hugely underwhelming.

3) for most purposes, any magic stat <12 is pretty much the same. this is because you need to have >=12 magic to get higher staff range, which (may) matter in warpskip/rescueskipping strategies. yes, having like 4 mag instead of 2 will make you heal better, but mend heals so much anyway that it doesn't really matter.

for these reasons, the differences between moulder and natasha isn't that big. moulder's biggest advantages over her are his higher base level, which lets him actually promote, and higher staff rank which lets him trivially reach A staves, and he's pretty much the only viable latona user which may be helpful in lategame bosskill strategies.

[RomanFlour]

Moulder also joins earlier than Natasha, meaning he has more time to level up, while Natasha joins a few chapters in... at level 1. Healers level really slow in this game, too.