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Uhhhhhh... this is a bad question for me... there's really not a villain I can say I don't hate... even Walhart, who I do understand his means and his goals, I still can't forgive the things he did... hell, any opinions I have of any 1st gen characters in Fates (except Nyx) is muddled by "but they do actively oppose you if you aren't on their side"

Edited by Xenomata
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Tricky one.  Kinda want to say Cervantes or Hans for the comedy option, plus I do really like them regardless. I don't mind Walhart either since in the FE timeframe, wars of conquest are totally legit. I consider Flame Emperor equivalent. Then maybe Murdock? But I didn't really play FE6 so that's just my FE7 impression. At any rate, that makes a nice top 5 off the top of my head.

What's interesting to me is the fondness for Berkut. If anything he's one of the ones I dislike the most, far more than the end-villains of pretty much all the games. I think it's the extreme Dick Dastardly nature where he always gets away after being defeated and there's not even the slightest effort to stop him. Alm should have chopped his head off the first time he defeated him. I also feel like the devs are trying to manipulate the player's feelings towards him by making him not-ugly. Echoes is probably the most transparent game in doing the pretty vs ugly dichotomy given how comically ugly the supposed "true" villains are. For other examples of villains I very much dislike, they tend towards those who similarly lean on plot armour, or on bullshit invincibility. Let's make it 5 like the other list: Surtr, Black Knight (yes, I consider those equivalent), Death Knight, Heroes Ike with Emblas' Ward...

Neutral on the other common pick, Lyon. I don't hate him, I pity the fool. He's such a pathetic mewling that I can't bring myself to like him. I probably lump the majority of Camuses here too. Screw your sense of honour, you're all just idiots.

Edited by Humanoid
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I was torn between Julius and Anankos, Julius because I like his character in general and his story is also really interesting. Anankos because he has a really cool design (best dragon final boss for me at least) and he pretty much is the small amount of lore fates has impersonated. 

Ar the end went I with Anankos as he isn't in the game as of now while Julius is already. 

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27 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

I was torn between Julius and Anankos, Julius because I like his character in general and his story is also really interesting. Anankos because he has a really cool design (best dragon final boss for me at least) and he pretty much is the small amount of lore fates has impersonated. 

Ar the end went I with Anankos as he isn't in the game as of now while Julius is already. 

Really? I think Anankos has the worst design of any dragon in the series. His body looks too droopy and human like and the whole mouth full of sphere just looks silly more than intimidating or odd.

Funnily enough I love his human design though. Even though it's obviously a lazy redesign of hooded Grima. That shade of blue hair just works for him.

Edited by Jotari
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Went with Lyon, but I was also tempted to choose Mustafa. 

I really like these questions. I can't wait for the results, although right now I worry that Camilla will win the first category and Berkut the second and third 

Either that, or the guy with a Jorge spamming bot will make a return.

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Really? I think Anankos has the worst design of any dragon in the series. His body looks too droopy and human like and the whole mouth full of sphere just looks silly more than intimidating or odd.

Funnily enough I love his human design though. Even though it's obviously a lazy redesign of hooded Grima. That shade of blue hair just works for him.

I actually liked the design, it seemed original with that eye orb thing. The human like and droopy body also mede him stand out to other dragons for me at least. Different tastes I guess. Not a big fan of the mask thing though. 

To be honest, I voted mostly with the thinking that he still isn't in the game and the results perhaps could be used for making a banner (a farfetched replacement or something like that). 

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5 hours ago, Humanoid said:

Tricky one.  Kinda want to say Cervantes or Hans for the comedy option, plus I do really like them regardless. I don't mind Walhart either since in the FE timeframe, wars of conquest are totally legit. I consider Flame Emperor equivalent. Then maybe Murdock? But I didn't really play FE6 so that's just my FE7 impression. At any rate, that makes a nice top 5 off the top of my head.

What's interesting to me is the fondness for Berkut. If anything he's one of the ones I dislike the most, far more than the end-villains of pretty much all the games. I think it's the extreme Dick Dastardly nature where he always gets away after being defeated and there's not even the slightest effort to stop him. Alm should have chopped his head off the first time he defeated him. I also feel like the devs are trying to manipulate the player's feelings towards him by making him not-ugly. Echoes is probably the most transparent game in doing the pretty vs ugly dichotomy given how comically ugly the supposed "true" villains are. For other examples of villains I very much dislike, they tend towards those who similarly lean on plot armour, or on bullshit invincibility. Let's make it 5 like the other list: Surtr, Black Knight (yes, I consider those equivalent), Death Knight, Heroes Ike with Emblas' Ward...

Neutral on the other common pick, Lyon. I don't hate him, I pity the fool. He's such a pathetic mewling that I can't bring myself to like him. I probably lump the majority of Camuses here too. Screw your sense of honour, you're all just idiots.

If you think Berkut is worse than Iago and Hans...I'm disappointed in you

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36 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

If you think Berkut is worse than Iago and Hans...I'm disappointed in you

I think his opinion would be affected about how the Game pities Berkut despite being an asshole until the very end. (Very literally, when he's starting to allucinate (?))

Iago and Hans are unapologetally presented as assholes.

Edited by Troykv
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1 hour ago, Troykv said:

I think his opinion would be affected about how the Game pities Berkut despite being an asshole until the very end. (Very literally, when he's starting to allucinate (?))

Iago and Hans are unapologetally presented as assholes.

Yeah, this is my feeling. I think the amount of sympathy the game and much of the fanbase gives Berkut is as lot more than what he deserves. Rudolf fucked him over, but that doesn't excuse treating his wife like shit and then murdering her. And people treat their relationship as cute???

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1 minute ago, Othin said:

Yeah, this is my feeling. I think the amount of sympathy the game and much of the fanbase gives Berkut is as lot more than what he deserves. Rudolf fucked him over, but that doesn't excuse treating his wife like shit and then murdering her. And people treat their relationship as cute???

...I still like Berkut a lot 😞

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Yeah, I gotta agree. There is absolutely NO excuse for treating your beloved the horrible way Berkut treated Rinea, and then straight up murdering her? Doesn't matter how Rudolph screwed him over, there's no excuse. Berkut gets absolutely zero sympathy from me.

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For as much as the game tries to make Berkut's sacrifice of Rinea a tragic thing and Berkut a sympathetic villain for it, they did nothing to make the relationship feel believable. They only have one meaningful discussion with each other and outside of he's pretty dismissive of her at best, or outright yelling and being angry with her. It also doesn't help that Rinea herself doesn't have much to her outside of being his girlfriend, so it's hard to get attached to her character and what she means to him when the game barely cares enough to develop her otherwise. 

It's one of the reasons why I refused to vote for them being the cutest dance couple despite it being a popular option, even if their dance scene is iconic to Echoes there are characters with much better developed relationships then those two have.

Edited by Medeus
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27 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Yeah, I gotta agree. There is absolutely NO excuse for treating your beloved the horrible way Berkut treated Rinea, and then straight up murdering her? Doesn't matter how Rudolph screwed him over, there's no excuse. Berkut gets absolutely zero sympathy from me.

I think that's the point, in my eyes at least. Good/successful villains don't always have to be moral/good people or make you feel sympathy for them. Now I agree that the game tries to make you feel sad for him especially at the end with Rinea's murder (something which I didn't like that much). However, that's a thing with the game, as a villain berkut is successful because he makes you want to beat him and stop him and that's a feeling that few antagonists create nowadays and he has to be one of the highlights of echoes (for me).

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9 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

I think that's the point, in my eyes at least. Good/successful villains don't always have to be moral/good people or make you feel sympathy for them. Now I agree that the game tries to make you feel sad for him especially at the end with Rinea's murder (something which I didn't like that much). However, that's a thing with the game, as a villain berkut is successful because he makes you want to beat him and stop him and that's a feeling that few antagonists create nowadays and he has to be one of the highlights of echoes (for me).

I don't think that's particularly unusual among villains. And while that may be what you like about him, most of his fans do seem to describe him as sympathetic.

Edited by Othin
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