Jump to content
haarhaarhaar

**SPOILERS** Aelfric and the Empire?

Recommended Posts

Hi all! Big fan of the site and the forums, first time posting. Am on my 3rd playthrough of 3H now, after having just finished CS, and noticed a couple of things that made me wonder to what extent, if any, the Empire (probably TWSITD/Arundel specifically) were involved in the events of CS. (below are spoilers for CS and Part I of the main story)

Here's the relevant information/evidence:

1. We know that there are at least two different factions of enemies of the Ashen Wolves that are faced in CS - mercenaries (pretending to be generic bandits) under the employ of Aelfric, and the defenders of the Chalice (the golems that only ever appear when fighting Seiros-associated armies and phantom-like soldiers that make more sense for gameplay reasons than story ones). 

2. It seems to have been confirmed both within the game and from meta-game stuff that if Cindered Shadows were properly canon, it would take place sometime after your first encounter with the Death Knight in Ch. 4 but before you face Miklan in Ch. 5. The Death Knight appears on his own (as the only member of the yellow army on the map) in Ch. 2 of Cindered Shadows, and will kill red army units if you let him. If you end the map without killing him, he claims he's had enough fun for the time being before retreating (similar to Ch. 6 of the main story where he gets told off for having too much fun). He does not appear in CS again.

3. In Ch. 5 of CS, where you are supposed to trade off the Chalice for Aelfric, the man keeping Aelfric captive (and the boss of that chapter) is an assassin called Metodey. An assassin called Metodey is also the sub-boss of Ch. 12 of the main story. His job in Ch. 12 and his lines of dialogue are concerned with retrieving the Crest Stones from the Holy Tomb. His purpose in Ch. 5 of CS is to obtain the Chalice. His death quote in CS was extremely suggestive of retreat, rather than literally dying.

4. In Ch. 6 of CS, Aelfric manages to obtain the blood of the lost crests of the Four Apostles. His original plan was to drain the Ashen Wolves of their blood completely, with this hopefully being enough to  reanimate Sitri. It is unclear whether the original Four Apostles drained all their blood 

5. Umbral Beast Aelfric's Umbral Surge ability allows him to distort space, or something to that effect (Constance has a line of dialogue about it). After the beast uses Umbral Surge, there's a graphic of darkness and glowing energy, the beast is disoriented and can't counter, and the placement effect of your units is random (indicating lack of complete control over the ability). Plenty of spatial magic (teleportation and the like) has been displayed throughout the series, but only one magic has had anywhere near a similar effect - Solon in Ch. 11 of the main story imprisons Byleth in an alternate dimension (described by Byleth as complete darkness). This is also Solon's most powerful magic, and it leaves him temporarily exhausted (in the cutscene he is visibly panting). 

There's a couple of different ways to explain all this:

Theory A - Aelfric is working with the Empire. He may not have started off on their side or be especially close to them, but he reached out to them for resources and soldiers. The Death Knight clearly already knows a surprising amount about hidden areas in Garreg Mach (cf. Ch. 6) and in his thirst for a good fight turns up where he's not supposed to by arriving in CS Ch. 2. Since he works directly for the Flame Emperor, even if the red army in that map were Empire or affiliated to them (they could simply be private hires anyway), he wouldn't care about fighting them. This being Arundel/TWSITD's plan, not Edelgard's, solves the thorny issue of "Why???" that most of Part I's plot struggles with (genuinely I don't understand how incompetent Edelgard has to be to let Ch. 4 of main story happen when you're playing BE. The definition of cockblocking yourself.) Even though Metodey appears under her command in Ch. 12 main story, Edelgard in CF later claims that the idea of using monsters in her army (which is what the Crest stones are for) is disgusting and she hates it, but grudgingly allows TWSITD to use them to their mutual advantage. In other words, Metodey may not actually be especially close to Edelgard beyond her being his superior, and is more aligned with TWSITD/a general Empire stooge ultimately obedient to Arundel, who has been loaned to Aelfric and later to Edelgard to help out (which is why Edelgard doesn't recognise him at this point). Why do the Empire help Aelfric at all? Beyond simply being a pain in Rhea's side, TWSITD's interest in creating beasts, in ancient artefacts and in forbidden knowledge also lines up in a general sense. Getting a hold of blood as rare as that of the Ashen Wolves would have been a massive bonus (think of the trouble they went to for Flayn), as well as the Chalice (presumably after Aelfric had successfully used it to reanimate Sitri). It would have been in their interest both to investigate the kinds of monsters that are produced by giving blood to the Chalice and/or confiscating it so the Church in particular couldn't find out any useful information about the kinds of magic/abilities TWSITD might have.

Theory B - The Empire is using Aelfric. They clearly would have known about the Abyss spaces, had realised there was plenty in the Abyss that might be of interest, but the Death Knight's solo expedition gathers no results (in Ch.2 Yuri tells Byleth that he has been sealing off passageways to lure everyone following them, including inadvertently the Death Knight, to the arena map so they can't get to the underground town where the Shadows Library etc. is). Therefore, Metodey and his men infiltrate Aelfric's swords-for-hire and help in stealing the Chalice, but over the course of CS Ch. 5-7 get wiped out. Much of Theory A is still relevant here as well, the difference mainly being that Aelfric had no idea the Empire were involved. Given that TWSITD higher-ups can transform themselves, both the above theories are a lot of trouble just for infiltrating/taking over Abyss, but then again much of what TWSITD do makes fairly little sense. But it definitely isn't outside their MO to let groups that aren't directly affiliated with them destroy themselves fulfilling TWSITD's interests, so this is also a possibility.

Theory C - The developers got lazy/ it's a set of coincidences. The Death Knight appears to spice up what is otherwise a relatively by-the-books level, they just used Metodey since the character had already been made (or perhaps Metodey is canonically a mercenary hired firstly by Aelfric and then later by Edelgard/Empire? I was pretty sure he was specifically an Empire soldier but I don't think I have proof), and a high-ranking Church member with access to forbidden knowledge could have come up with this scheme independent of TWSITD/Empire knowledge.

What do you guys think? Which theory makes the most sense? I should say I haven't played AM, SS, and am only on Ch. 5 of my CF playthrough with all the DLC, (I've completed CF before though) so if there's anything I've missed (information from supports, quests etc.) that's relevant stick it in the comments!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Hi all! Big fan of the site and the forums, first time posting. Am on my 3rd playthrough of 3H now, after having just finished CS, and noticed a couple of things that made me wonder to what extent, if any, the Empire (probably TWSITD/Arundel specifically) were involved in the events of CS. (below are spoilers for CS and Part I of the main story)

Here's the relevant information/evidence:

1. We know that there are at least two different factions of enemies of the Ashen Wolves that are faced in CS - mercenaries (pretending to be generic bandits) under the employ of Aelfric, and the defenders of the Chalice (the golems that only ever appear when fighting Seiros-associated armies and phantom-like soldiers that make more sense for gameplay reasons than story ones). 

2. It seems to have been confirmed both within the game and from meta-game stuff that if Cindered Shadows were properly canon, it would take place sometime after your first encounter with the Death Knight in Ch. 4 but before you face Miklan in Ch. 5. The Death Knight appears on his own (as the only member of the yellow army on the map) in Ch. 2 of Cindered Shadows, and will kill red army units if you let him. If you end the map without killing him, he claims he's had enough fun for the time being before retreating (similar to Ch. 6 of the main story where he gets told off for having too much fun). He does not appear in CS again.

3. In Ch. 5 of CS, where you are supposed to trade off the Chalice for Aelfric, the man keeping Aelfric captive (and the boss of that chapter) is an assassin called Metodey. An assassin called Metodey is also the sub-boss of Ch. 12 of the main story. His job in Ch. 12 and his lines of dialogue are concerned with retrieving the Crest Stones from the Holy Tomb. His purpose in Ch. 5 of CS is to obtain the Chalice. His death quote in CS was extremely suggestive of retreat, rather than literally dying.

4. In Ch. 6 of CS, Aelfric manages to obtain the blood of the lost crests of the Four Apostles. His original plan was to drain the Ashen Wolves of their blood completely, with this hopefully being enough to  reanimate Sitri. It is unclear whether the original Four Apostles drained all their blood 

5. Umbral Beast Aelfric's Umbral Surge ability allows him to distort space, or something to that effect (Constance has a line of dialogue about it). After the beast uses Umbral Surge, there's a graphic of darkness and glowing energy, the beast is disoriented and can't counter, and the placement effect of your units is random (indicating lack of complete control over the ability). Plenty of spatial magic (teleportation and the like) has been displayed throughout the series, but only one magic has had anywhere near a similar effect - Solon in Ch. 11 of the main story imprisons Byleth in an alternate dimension (described by Byleth as complete darkness). This is also Solon's most powerful magic, and it leaves him temporarily exhausted (in the cutscene he is visibly panting). 

There's a couple of different ways to explain all this:

Theory A - Aelfric is working with the Empire. He may not have started off on their side or be especially close to them, but he reached out to them for resources and soldiers. The Death Knight clearly already knows a surprising amount about hidden areas in Garreg Mach (cf. Ch. 6) and in his thirst for a good fight turns up where he's not supposed to by arriving in CS Ch. 2. Since he works directly for the Flame Emperor, even if the red army in that map were Empire or affiliated to them (they could simply be private hires anyway), he wouldn't care about fighting them. This being Arundel/TWSITD's plan, not Edelgard's, solves the thorny issue of "Why???" that most of Part I's plot struggles with (genuinely I don't understand how incompetent Edelgard has to be to let Ch. 4 of main story happen when you're playing BE. The definition of cockblocking yourself.) Even though Metodey appears under her command in Ch. 12 main story, Edelgard in CF later claims that the idea of using monsters in her army (which is what the Crest stones are for) is disgusting and she hates it, but grudgingly allows TWSITD to use them to their mutual advantage. In other words, Metodey may not actually be especially close to Edelgard beyond her being his superior, and is more aligned with TWSITD/a general Empire stooge ultimately obedient to Arundel, who has been loaned to Aelfric and later to Edelgard to help out (which is why Edelgard doesn't recognise him at this point). Why do the Empire help Aelfric at all? Beyond simply being a pain in Rhea's side, TWSITD's interest in creating beasts, in ancient artefacts and in forbidden knowledge also lines up in a general sense. Getting a hold of blood as rare as that of the Ashen Wolves would have been a massive bonus (think of the trouble they went to for Flayn), as well as the Chalice (presumably after Aelfric had successfully used it to reanimate Sitri). It would have been in their interest both to investigate the kinds of monsters that are produced by giving blood to the Chalice and/or confiscating it so the Church in particular couldn't find out any useful information about the kinds of magic/abilities TWSITD might have.

Theory B - The Empire is using Aelfric. They clearly would have known about the Abyss spaces, had realised there was plenty in the Abyss that might be of interest, but the Death Knight's solo expedition gathers no results (in Ch.2 Yuri tells Byleth that he has been sealing off passageways to lure everyone following them, including inadvertently the Death Knight, to the arena map so they can't get to the underground town where the Shadows Library etc. is). Therefore, Metodey and his men infiltrate Aelfric's swords-for-hire and help in stealing the Chalice, but over the course of CS Ch. 5-7 get wiped out. Much of Theory A is still relevant here as well, the difference mainly being that Aelfric had no idea the Empire were involved. Given that TWSITD higher-ups can transform themselves, both the above theories are a lot of trouble just for infiltrating/taking over Abyss, but then again much of what TWSITD do makes fairly little sense. But it definitely isn't outside their MO to let groups that aren't directly affiliated with them destroy themselves fulfilling TWSITD's interests, so this is also a possibility.

Theory C - The developers got lazy/ it's a set of coincidences. The Death Knight appears to spice up what is otherwise a relatively by-the-books level, they just used Metodey since the character had already been made (or perhaps Metodey is canonically a mercenary hired firstly by Aelfric and then later by Edelgard/Empire? I was pretty sure he was specifically an Empire soldier but I don't think I have proof), and a high-ranking Church member with access to forbidden knowledge could have come up with this scheme independent of TWSITD/Empire knowledge.

What do you guys think? Which theory makes the most sense? I should say I haven't played AM, SS, and am only on Ch. 5 of my CF playthrough with all the DLC, (I've completed CF before though) so if there's anything I've missed (information from supports, quests etc.) that's relevant stick it in the comments!

I am not sure, but at the very least, I am rather convinced that Edelgard had minimal involvement in that whole affair (at least on the enemy side, she is helping you). In fact, I believe her involvement in the entire key of part one is more limited than it first appears. Despite what it may seem at first, the Flame Emperor isn't the boss of the forces you fight during most of part one, the Western Church most likely being controlled by Cornelia, those who slither in the dark operating mostly independently without even informing Edelgard of their plans(she was surprised at the both the events at Remire village and the death of Jeralt). The Flame Emperor merely another puppet. 

When it comes to Metodey. I think he is some kind of bandit or mercenary, that is apparently what most of the Flame Emperor's forces consist of during the raid on the holy tomb. So he essentially works for whoever pays him. 

I do think some Empire forces were involved in cindered shadows, but mostly just to grab the chalice of beginnings for themselves. But it is hard to be certain, things in the story are rather unclear. But I think that Arundel probably had some involvement. I guess I would make a guess for Theory B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Theory C - The developers got lazy/ it's a set of coincidences. The Death Knight appears to spice up what is otherwise a relatively by-the-books level, they just used Metodey since the character had already been made (or perhaps Metodey is canonically a mercenary hired firstly by Aelfric and then later by Edelgard/Empire?

Its Koei so you should never discount the possibility that they are lazy. The map reuse of Cindered Shadow but also Three Houses as a whole should be a good indication of laziness. 

But the Death Knight's rather sudden appearance is rather typical for another reason. In a lot of Koei DLC stages you have the occasional important character just randomly wondering into the adventure and causing mayhem, and the Death Knight appearing definitely reminded me of that. 

As for Metodey. I do think its partially laziness but it also makes sense. He came across more as a mercenary, the ''replacement'' the Flame emperor mentioned to Costas rather then an imperial noble. His presence in the DLC was probably him taking a side job and Edelgard being pretty annoyed about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I am rather convinced that Edelgard had minimal involvement in that whole affair

Agreed - it would make absolutely no sense for her to be involved behind the scenes of CS, even as a puppet of TWSITD, but also fight with/for the Ashen Wolves. If anything, she should be preventing her teacher, who she has recently found out can now wield the Sword of the Creator for some reason, from getting involved in anything Abyss-related in the first place if she were genuinely involved in this plot.

10 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

When it comes to Metodey. I think he is some kind of bandit or mercenary, that is apparently what most of the Flame Emperor's forces consist of during the raid on the holy tomb.

I've been having a further look into Metodey, and her battle dialogue with him in CS (see vid below) shows that he definitely knew who she was, but it's at least unclear if she recognises him (and from the sounds of it she probably doesn't). Edelgard, as heir to the throne, may be basically a celebrity in Fodlan, but I'm not sure how many people would actually be able to identify her by her face, so recognising her is potentially evidence of being fairly high up in the Imperial army, even if he probably had nothing to do with her until directly before the events in the run-up to the Holy Tomb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnYb0msUGg

As for Metodey's appearance in Ch. 12 (see image) the game claims his faction is the Adrestian Empire, and he also has an Empire-exclusive battalion. 

IMG_3879.thumb.jpg.ebe07507a9cdb459ebe9a719380ea8ba.jpg

In the Holy Tomb cutscene, he has a line where he speaks specifically on behalf of the Imperial Army:

Metodey:  "Thank you ever so much for guiding us this far. The Imperial Army will now take possession of everything in the Holy Tomb!"

 

Edelgard also acknowledges giving him an order in the same breath as outing herself as the Flame Emperor, and Hubert then acknowledges her as Empress of Adrestia (see vid below), tying Metodey to the command chain of the Empire directly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RopL8AES7vY

So I think there's actually a decent case for Metodey not being a simple mercenary in Ch.12 main story. And if he's being trusted to raid the Holy Tomb, then there's no way he joined the army and made his way up the ranks to commander in the six or so months between CS ending and the Holy Tomb. So it's likely he is an Imperial soldier in CS, but his faction/battalion don't reflect that because he isn't there on 'sanctioned' Empire business (i.e. is undercover). Other Empire-affiliated enemies hiding that affiliation also don't show their true faction in the main story (Remire goons are a good example) so there's definitely precedent for that.

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

He came across more as a mercenary, the ''replacement'' the Flame emperor mentioned to Costas rather then an imperial noble

Yeah you're right, he probably isn't a noble, and the Empire in general is quite uptight about maintaining the military-aristocracy hierarchy. Maybe he could still just be a higher-ranking goon than most, or even a younger son/remote offshoot of some big noble family? Caspar's supports make the claim that younger siblings get left out of/a lot less from inheritances, so have to make their own way, and the military is a good way to do that. But if Edelgard didn't know who Metodey was around Ch. 5, she wouldn't have been referring to him specifically and would have no reason to think he would do a better job, and it's unlikely she would have used Empire soldiers that early on in TWSITD's plans anyway (if Metodey was one).

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its Koei so you should never discount the possibility that they are lazy. The map reuse of Cindered Shadow but also Three Houses as a whole should be a good indication of laziness. 

But the Death Knight's rather sudden appearance is rather typical for another reason. In a lot of Koei DLC stages you have the occasional important character just randomly wondering into the adventure and causing mayhem, and the Death Knight appearing definitely reminded me of that. 

 

Yeah the lack of variety of maps is a huge bummer across Three Houses. I didn't know that Koei did that in a lot of their games - have played a couple of their Warriors titles and now you say it it makes sense, but because those games are normally a huge mishmash of characters/power levels anyway I didn't notice it much. I wonder if the guys in charge of DLC development for different games are all using the same playbook or something.

Edited by haarhaarhaar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/10/2020 at 7:55 AM, haarhaarhaar said:

Yeah the lack of variety of maps is a huge bummer across Three Houses. I didn't know that Koei did that in a lot of their games - have played a couple of their Warriors titles and now you say it it makes sense, but because those games are normally a huge mishmash of characters/power levels anyway I didn't notice it much. I wonder if the guys in charge of DLC development for different games are all using the same playbook or something.

Its more just a general time-saving measure. Reusing content from the main game saves the developers' time & resources, so they'll try getting away with it whenever they can. Fire Emblem itself has done this before in Shadows of Valentia, so its not necessarily a new concept to the series. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Its more just a general time-saving measure. Reusing content from the main game saves the developers' time & resources, so they'll try getting away with it whenever they can. Fire Emblem itself has done this before in Shadows of Valentia, so its not necessarily a new concept to the series.

Yeah the last FE console title I played was Awakening, which spoilt me as far as DLC goes. Out of interest what are you referring to in SoV?

From a development perspective the character of Metodey is super strange - he appears in one of the few animated cutscenes in the game, despite only being a character for the course of Ch. 12 (and I guess now Ch. 5 of the DLC) and having no genuine impact on the plot at all. Which means the developers/storyboard people went out of their way to create and animate him, when animation is one of the most labour-intensive parts of any game. He could have been replaced with a generic soldier/bandit both in Ch.12 and CS without any loss to the story or our understanding of it. I guess the existence of a character that is basically expendable, but not generic, is enough of a reason to use him instead of a nobody in CS, but it's a shame if that's true. 

From his appearance in Ch.5 of CS (he's the only named Red Army unit, and the only boss unit in Aelfric's organisation apart from Aelfric himself) it seems like he's supposed to be the de facto leader of Aelfric's men. He's entrusted to lead the exchange of the Chalice, of course is the boss of that chapter, and after you defeat him, Aelfric leads the remainder of his men himself. So whilst it's definitely possible, even likely, that the developers just got lazy, it isn't hugely satisfying to see him appear in CS for that reason 😞

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Yeah the last FE console title I played was Awakening, which spoilt me as far as DLC goes. Out of interest what are you referring to in SoV?

From a development perspective the character of Metodey is super strange - he appears in one of the few animated cutscenes in the game, despite only being a character for the course of Ch. 12 (and I guess now Ch. 5 of the DLC) and having no genuine impact on the plot at all. Which means the developers/storyboard people went out of their way to create and animate him, when animation is one of the most labour-intensive parts of any game. He could have been replaced with a generic soldier/bandit both in Ch.12 and CS without any loss to the story or our understanding of it. I guess the existence of a character that is basically expendable, but not generic, is enough of a reason to use him instead of a nobody in CS, but it's a shame if that's true. 

From his appearance in Ch.5 of CS (he's the only named Red Army unit, and the only boss unit in Aelfric's organisation apart from Aelfric himself) it seems like he's supposed to be the de facto leader of Aelfric's men. He's entrusted to lead the exchange of the Chalice, of course is the boss of that chapter, and after you defeat him, Aelfric leads the remainder of his men himself. So whilst it's definitely possible, even likely, that the developers just got lazy, it isn't hugely satisfying to see him appear in CS for that reason 😞

In SoV, 2 of the 4 Story DLC maps for "Rise of the Deliverance" were just reused maps from the main game. They put the player in unique scenarios though, so it felt different enough to justify its price (that and the writing was pretty good). I believe Fates did something similar but I can't remember off the top of my head.

I don't think Metodey's animations were too hard to develop. He reused animations like most of the character do in cutscenes, and I believe the developers use the same battle models for the cutscenes, so animating him shouldn't have been too hard, at least in theory. 

I also don't think he's a leader of Aelfric's men either. It seems like he's just your average sellsword assassin looking to make an easy buck & Aelfric just so happened to employ him. That's the impression I got from the main game as well. Though, if he is a sellsword, it would make it weird that he seemingly knows Edelgard and her future plans, while Edelgard doesn't know him. My guess is that he was hired by Edelgard & she just playing dumb so her plan isn't found out OR he was hired by TWSITD and they told him about Edelgard, so he knows her, but she doesn't know him. Or it could just be fanservice, who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by FoxyGrandpa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Metodey and his troops could be unofficially "on loan" to Aelfric simply because his actions are causing the Church (their future enemy) a lot of trouble. Sort of like the Lend-Lease/"Volunteer" troops before America officially involved itself in WW1. If he gets his hands on a few artifacts/useful goodies all the better.

It's also possible TWSITD were looking to confirm the existence and possibly the functionality of the buried legend that is the Chalice of Beginnings. The Church has a lot of dirty secrets, and its enemies would love to know them, enough to send some grunts and an expendable officer (Metodey) to check it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 4/13/2020 at 12:56 AM, FoxyGrandpa said:

It seems like he's just your average sellsword assassin looking to make an easy buck & Aelfric just so happened to employ him. That's the impression I got from the main game as well. Though, if he is a sellsword, it would make it weird that he seemingly knows Edelgard and her future plans, while Edelgard doesn't know him. My guess is that he was hired by Edelgard & she just playing dumb so her plan isn't found out OR he was hired by TWSITD and they told him about Edelgard, so he knows her, but she doesn't know him. Or it could just be fanservice, who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hahahaha this one goes out to all the Metodey fans out there I guess. It's interesting that quite a few people immediately thought he was just a mercenary (all his dialogue is weirdly obsessed with killing and quite lacking in discipline compared to people like Randolph and Ladislava so it makes a lot of sense) but it hadn't really struck me like that at all until I started making this thread. I wouldn't put it past Edelgard to just be acting either, although again for Metodey not to get the memo about that is weird. So yeah more likely to be a TWSITD organised plot, if it isn't indeed just coincidence.

Courtesy of Nico Thaxton and NintendoEverything, there's a translation of an interview with the developers where the lead director says:

Q: The side story is essentially a “parallel world,” isn’t it?

Kusakihara: It’s hard to say that that’s exactly the case. I don’t think it’s completely isolated from the main story, and I think for Yuri and the others those events did actually occur. When you meet the Ashen Wolves in the main game, they treat you as if they’re meeting you for the first time. That being said, it’s assumed that the events of Cindered Shadows have already been resolved. I think Cindered Shadows is essentially how the protagonist would’ve resolved the conflict had they been there.

 

I don't know if that means Edelgard wasn't actually involved with the episode either (and I have no idea how it could have played out without Byleth and the gang's help). But it would explain why wires weren't crossed in the main story. It's gonna take me a while to check, cos I don't have a save file with the recruited Ashen Wolves that's anywhere near Ch.12, but it'd be interesting if there's unique battle dialogue between any of them and Metodey, and it might swing things one way or another depending on if there is or isn't.

8 hours ago, Ivan Tridelan said:

Metodey and his troops could be unofficially "on loan" to Aelfric simply because his actions are causing the Church (their future enemy) a lot of trouble. Sort of like the Lend-Lease/"Volunteer" troops before America officially involved itself in WW1. If he gets his hands on a few artifacts/useful goodies all the better.

It's also possible TWSITD were looking to confirm the existence and possibly the functionality of the buried legend that is the Chalice of Beginnings. The Church has a lot of dirty secrets, and its enemies would love to know them, enough to send some grunts and an expendable officer (Metodey) to check it out.

Yeah I could definitely see it going down this way, the Chalice alone is more than enough reason for TWSITD to get involved. I don't really know how reasonable it is for a cardinal to finance and support his own private army of mercs (but I'm guessing not that hard, if Byleth gets 5k/month at A+ Prof Level and you can buy four battalions with that money). But it must be easier to get the help of TWSITD/a big backer like the Empire for the numbers of soldiers Aelfric uses.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd always pegged Metodey as one of Hubert's Vestra thugs. It's pretty clear that the Flame emperor army is made up of Empire royalists and the personal House troops of Hubert and Edelgard, with a few Mercenary patsies in-between. Thus the fact that both the Death Knight and Metodey are acting outside of Edelgard's supervision isn't much of a surprise for me because we already know Hubert goes behind her back. It's like how I chock up the ambush in the Flayn rescue mission to Hubert attempting to get the Professor killed in the Black Eagles White Clouds section.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/16/2020 at 11:46 AM, CyberNinja said:

chock up the ambush in the Flayn rescue mission to Hubert attempting to get the Professor killed in the Black Eagles White Clouds section.

Do you mean the Death Knight's presence in Ch. 6 in the first place? Because there aren't any reinforcements and no ambushing going on in that chapter. Also, it seems unlikely that Hubert would give the order to kidnap Flayn (he has absolutely no use for her).

Ch. 6 is super confusing from a story perspective though - not a lot of it makes sense. For example:

1. There are lots of rumours of the Death Knight's existence and girls from town being kidnapped, but Tomas and Jeritza have both met Flayn, so shouldn't be needing to kidnap randoms until they get the right person. And, the only girls you recover in Ch. 6 are Flayn and Monica anyway. So where did those rumours come from, and who would benefit from having them spread? Because it seems like the Death Knight would have zero interest or reason to go after random girls from town.

2a. If TWSITD genuinely wanted Flayn's blood, it's hard to believe they wouldn't want to abduct her for experimentation as well. So why would Jeritza take her into some dead end underground passageways and then warp away without taking Flayn?

2b. A possible answer is that they didn't care about Flayn's blood, and it was all a fakeout to plant Monica in the Academy. That would explain why Edelgard lets the fight happen (on BE route) without intervening as Flame Emperor sooner. Although, of course, TWSITD definitely didn't need to go that far in order to plant someone in Garreg Mach. 

The freedom accorded to the Death Knight is also, I think, relatively unique. Hubert is a high-ranking noble with plenty of resources in his own right, and therefore the ability to move somewhat freely (not to mention Edelgard could and potentially would have him killed if she thought he was acting behind her back without good reason). The Death Knight is for all intents and purposes an attack dog, but one whose loyalty to Edelgard is unquestioned, which is why she allows his thrill-seeking. It's true we know less about Metodey, but he definitely doesn't seem to be on the same level as these two. So if he is acting without Edelgard's knowledge, it's probably because (like you say) he's working for someone else. But for it to be Hubert, that would mean Hubert has knowledge of, interest in, and the ability to research independently of TWSITD the Chalice of Beginnings, and was keeping that whole investigation from Edelgard - all of that together doesn't seem likely. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Metodey is just a particularly sociopathic mercenary who is already working for the Empire by the time CS takes place, and helping Aelfric was a side job that Edelgard didn't know about. Whether or not he knows the Flame Emperor's identity is unclear, but he's unnerved when he sees Edelgard and Edelgard is displeased to see him. One of the NPCs in Abyss recognizes Metodey and says that "he wouldn’t hesitate to slaughter an entire town" if he could benefit from it, which supports the idea that he's a mercenary.

TWSITD also seem unaffiliated with Aelfric's plot (mostly because it's never implied in any fashion), and manipulating him into getting the Chalice of Beginnings sounds like too much trouble if they could kidnap the descendants of the Four Apostles themselves. Given Sitri's nature, I think her body would be more valuable to them than the Chalice of Beginnings, so they would rather keep her for themselves rather than using her to control Aelfric.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Metodey is just a particularly sociopathic mercenary who is already working for the Empire by the time CS takes place, and helping Aelfric was a side job that Edelgard didn't know about. Whether or not he knows the Flame Emperor's identity is unclear, but he's unnerved when he sees Edelgard and Edelgard is displeased to see him. One of the NPCs in Abyss recognizes Metodey and says that "he wouldn’t hesitate to slaughter an entire town" if he could benefit from it, which supports the idea that he's a mercenary.

TWSITD also seem unaffiliated with Aelfric's plot (mostly because it's never implied in any fashion), and manipulating him into getting the Chalice of Beginnings sounds like too much trouble if they could kidnap the descendants of the Four Apostles themselves. Given Sitri's nature, I think her body would be more valuable to them than the Chalice of Beginnings, so they would rather keep her for themselves rather than using her to control Aelfric.

agreed if they knew about Sitri, the would try to get he body

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

Metodey is just a particularly sociopathic mercenary who is already working for the Empire by the time CS takes place, and helping Aelfric was a side job that Edelgard didn't know about. Whether or not he knows the Flame Emperor's identity is unclear, but he's unnerved when he sees Edelgard and Edelgard is displeased to see him. One of the NPCs in Abyss recognizes Metodey and says that "he wouldn’t hesitate to slaughter an entire town" if he could benefit from it, which supports the idea that he's a mercenary.

Really good spot with the NPC quote - that definitely seems to push towards Metodey being a mercenary (although, given that Abyssians are often refugees, and the Empire has had a relatively turbulent recent history, it's not out of the question to think Metodey is an imperial soldier with war crime tendencies). Metodey could be a mercenary who's been doing Imperial dirty work for a long time, and he could still be getting his orders from Arundel (so from TWSITD without knowing it) which would explain his level of knowledge/access in CS and the main story. It's definitely possible too that Metodey, if he is a mercenary, is on two separate jobs from two separate employers (assuming conflict of interest isn't a thing anybody cares about in Fodlan, which it probably isn't) in CS and main story. It's not completely satisfying in terms of how involved Metodey is in the Imperial Army though, or that Aelfric has trusted him enough to act as his proxy.

2 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

TWSITD also seem unaffiliated with Aelfric's plot (mostly because it's never implied in any fashion), and manipulating him into getting the Chalice of Beginnings sounds like too much trouble if they could kidnap the descendants of the Four Apostles themselves. Given Sitri's nature, I think her body would be more valuable to them than the Chalice of Beginnings, so they would rather keep her for themselves rather than using her to control Aelfric.

Yep the narrative of CS definitely doesn't imply it, although TWSITD almost never seem to take the most logical route towards their goals.

And yeah Sitri's body would definitely be important to TWSITD, if they knew about it. I'm not sure that it would be more valuable than the Chalice, though, and it's entirely possible that they don't know Aelfric has Sitri's body, or Sitri's significance anyway (remember Edelgard, Jeritza and Arundel are all surprised that Byleth can wield the Sword of the Creator - it seems unlikely that they knew at this point what Rhea's plan with Sitri/Byleth was). It might even be the case that TWSITD/Metodey doesn't know that the Ashen Wolves all have lost Crests. TWSITD ought to know in Hapi's case at least (I only know bits and pieces about their backstories because I haven't done all their supports yet) but there's no way that Metodey and Cornelia have a direct line sharing information about each other's projects, and they may simply be in the dark about them. 

Point being, the rumours of the Chalice and the secrets of the Abyss would definitely be enough for TWSITD to get involved passively, even if they didn't know of any other benefits they might get for sticking their nose into Aelfric's business. But the vagueness of the information means they aren't prepared to invest more than a bunch of mercenaries/expendable soldiers, which is fair enough. Metodey also runs away with his tail between his legs before he has a chance to see that the Chalice is the real deal, the Ashen Wolves all have lost Crests, and that the Chalice has an even greater monster-making power than Crest Stones. CS would ultimately still be a failure for TWSITD, but it wouldn't be one they cared about massively at the point where Metodey bows out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2020 at 9:34 AM, haarhaarhaar said:

Do you mean the Death Knight's presence in Ch. 6 in the first place? Because there aren't any reinforcements and no ambushing going on in that chapter. Also, it seems unlikely that Hubert would give the order to kidnap Flayn (he has absolutely no use for her).

 

If you enter the Portal room during that chapter, a bunch of Flame Emperor soldiers spawn saying they "knew you would come." Note that as admitted in the Dev interview much of the original story was written with SS as the perspective, hence its likely these guys are Hubert's since he's the one that tells you to enter the portal room.

On 4/17/2020 at 6:44 PM, haarhaarhaar said:

Really good spot with the NPC quote - that definitely seems to push towards Metodey being a mercenary

If you attack Metodey, he explicitly says that soon he'll be able to reveal he's really working for the empire before he stops himself. This implies the mercenary background is his cover and he's actually one of Hubert's sociopathic Vestra goons. Hubert explicitly states in Ferdinand's and Edelgard's supports that he does go behind her, hence the evidence that Metodey is his lackey rather than Edelgard's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, CyberNinja said:

these guys are Hubert's since he's the one that tells you to enter the portal room

They don't actually say that they knew who was coming in advance, it's just a statement acknowledging the arrival of enemies - it's a trap for anyone who enters the key tactical location of the map (similar to VW ch. 23 when you try to take down any of the control rooms). Besides, if Hubert attacks the Death Knight in that chapter, the Death Knight specifically says he doesn't take orders from Hubert - obviously they are pretending to be enemies at this point, but there's a kernel of truth here. Hubert tells him to leave, but Edelgard is the one who succeeds in making him. So if Jeritza doesn't acknowledge Hubert as a commanding officer, and bearing in mind that canonically very little time has passed between Flayn's kidnapping and our discovery of them, how and why would soldiers personally serving Jeritza be getting real-time information from Hubert?

7 hours ago, CyberNinja said:

If you attack Metodey, he explicitly says that soon he'll be able to reveal he's really working for the empire before he stops himself. This implies the mercenary background is his cover and he's actually one of Hubert's sociopathic Vestra goons. Hubert explicitly states in Ferdinand's and Edelgard's supports that he does go behind her, hence the evidence that Metodey is his lackey rather than Edelgard's

That's pretty conclusive in favour of Empire backing, but the link to Hubert specifically is still pretty tenuous. I agree that Hubert definitely has his own people working both for Edelgard and behind Edelgard's back (but still ultimately for her benefit), but I'm not convinced that Metodey is one of them. Apart from the fact that it seems quite unlikely that Hubert would get involved in Abyss affairs and endanger Edelgard in the process, there's the fact that Hubert's sphere of influence is within the Empire, specifically the Imperial household. His aims are to defend Edelgard from threats and carry out her will, and his methodology is normally discreet (extortion, assassination, as he mentions in his supports). There's no reason to think he would be behind a plot brewing beneath Garreg Mach for months, where his power and resources are smaller, that has nothing to do with Edelgard's protection or her goals.

Also, Metodey is apparently the least subtle secret agent in history - sounds like classic TWSITD to me. In all seriousness, they have far more to gain from the Abyss than Hubert does, and they are the ones with interest in Crest Stones, not Hubert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...