Yay More Announcements! \o/

[Judge Judy]

I was gonna say that, but I thought it would be insulting, so I didn't. I'll elaborate.

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Isn't it bad to be too strict? People who are too strict are generally not liked. In this case, it is a thing, a forum; if the forum is too strict, people won't come here. If it gets too strict, people won't come here to have fun either.

FESS was strict, but never too strict.

If members don't like an Admin for being strict..then that is just silly. They are just doing what they are meant to do.

The rule Jyousa has put up are not that strict. They are there because members (including me) were acting like jerks at the forums and did not follow the rules.

What Tino is suggesting is way too harsh at this current moment.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Luxord

[TheEnd]

Wouldn't 'Fuck you.' technically count as a flame?

BAN JOSHUA

I don't think so. Sounds like mere cursing to me.

[Jyosua]

Being strict doesn't always mean being the most efficient/the best for the forum. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

PROTIP: FESS was strict, and it's closing down tonight.

Thanks. FESS had a history of being very strict on members, although near the end of it's life it lightened up quite a bit, but the reputation never left.

Anyways, Fireman, I would be more concerned with Tino saying that people like me have mental problems, which not only insults people like me, it also insults people who DO have legitimate mental problems, such as ADD/ADHD, Bipolar, DID, etc. The fuck you wasn't from me. It was from my collective brand of people and more. I had half a mind to give him a verbal warning, but I think he immediatly saw what he did wrong after I said what I did. Tino's not dumb, I'll say that much.

As for knowing what's best for the forums, I would say that us, the administration, have a better idea of what's best for the forums, since we are the people who created this place, and shaped it to be what it is today. We do not want to come down too hard on people, because being strict isn't in the ideals of this forum. There is a time and place to be strict, and as the exception clause states, we know when and where that is, and will be strict at those times. All other times, it is unnecessary, and will do nothing but change the atmosphere of this forum, which is something we do NOT want to do.

[lolDeath]

1. Copycats.

2. Yes to everything, you just gained a permanent member, myself.

I'm sure many members here won't like it at first because they are used to such relaxed rules, but I honestly believe that this is what is best for SF.

[Knife]

Rules aren't too bad and the warn system is awesome. I gotta say, this is one rule I'm 100% behind.

[Crystal Shards]

PROTIP: FESS was strict, and it's closing down tonight.

Not relevant to why it closed down. Or at least it wasn't the major reason.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Crystal Shards

[Superbus]

Being strict doesn't always mean being the most efficient/the best for the forum. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

PROTIP: FESS was strict, and it's closing down tonight.

Bollocks. FESS is closing down because I didn't want it going down the road of FEFF and FEP. If I kept it going, it'd still be going right now.

Jyosua is stricting up now because he feels he has to. Just like I did back then. The mistake FESS - not just myself - made was not loosening up in time, but that's not the reason we're closing.

[Mufasa]

This is not a matter of what people want, but what's the most efficient and what's the best for the forum.

What's the point in having a full functioning Forum if no one wants to go there Tino?

Give it a rest man. The place here is supposed to be laid back. Just go with it.

[Jyosua]

I think TheEnd was just playing Devil's Advocate. ;)

[SwordsAreShiney]

Bollocks. FESS is closing down because I didn't want it going down the road of FEFF and FEP. If I kept it going, it'd still be going right now.

Jyosua is stricting up now because he feels he has to. Just like I did back then. The mistake FESS - not just myself - made was not loosening up in time, but that's not the reason we're closing.

"the road of [FEFF and] FEP?" What's that supposed to mean? FEP's growing tons faster than this place, or any other FE forum that I can think of for that matter, even with the influx of former FESSers. <_<

Edited November 22, 2008 by SwordsAreShiney

[Jyosua]

Ahaha >_> <_<

SO, how's the weather up there in Canada, Jeff? :D

[Masu]

These seem fine by me. Tino's seem outlandish.

[SwordsAreShiney]

Ahaha >_> <_<

SO, how's the weather up there in Canada, Jeff? :D

Nearly 4 000 people have joined FEP since January '08. ;)

It's -10 right now, Celsius. So, mildly cold. But tolerable...ish.

[Knife]

A lot of people join FEP just for FETO. Overall, it's near active to this site.

[Oguma]

Nearly 4 000 people have joined FEP since January '08. ;)

It's -10 right now, Celsius. So, mildly cold. But tolerable...ish.

Fucking FETO nubs...

On-topic: Interesting new system.

AND YAY NO MORE WARNS! :D

[ZephyrD]

I think the overall system needs a bit of work, but how exactly, I don't really know. No doubt any flaws will be seen in time and promptly resolved, Jyo is good like that. ;)

Bit of rules is fine but this is hardly strict, which is good, while there's been an influx of members lately, this still isn't a very large forum, and considering the FE-fanbase, it'll never be large.

Edited November 22, 2008 by ZephyrShakuraus

[Raven]

I belive that warns should not disappear just because of good behaviour.

If someone has % added to their warn, then it should stay. I think it should be like a criminal record, so to speak.

[Phoenix Wright]

I belive that warns should not disappear just because of good behaviour.

If someone has % added to their warn, then it should stay. I think it should be like a criminal record, so to speak.

Misdemeanors leave after a few years though. ;)

Felonies stay.

[TLSothe]

No arguements.

Lolol, though, some of you guys better fucking watch it. Those who were like "I'm at 60 bitches" Well, you better watch out, because if you get banished, I will laugh, and then miss you.

*Hands Jyo and Vince E-Cookies*

Good job.

[Tino]

Being strict doesn't always mean being the most efficient/the best for the forum. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

PROTIP: FESS was strict, and it's closing down tonight.

In this case however, I do think being stricter is the better option. People are bragging about their warn levels and about how they want to be suspended and all. Not to mention that uber high warn levels just shouldn't be tolerated. It shows how a member is violating the rules a lot, no matter how many times it's being lowered.

And besides, like stated before, FESS isn't closing down due to incredibly high levels of strictness.

Isn't it bad to be too strict? People who are too strict are generally not liked. In this case, it is a thing, a forum; if the forum is too strict, people won't come here. If it gets too strict, people won't come here to have fun either.

If the forum is not strict at all, people will see a lot of flames and spam eventually (I'm not saying that's what happens right now, but it will definitely happen later on) and will not join either. People would rather join a non-spammy forum than a forum of which they don't even know the warning system etc. yet.

What Tino is suggesting is way too harsh at this current moment.

Arguments to back this up, please.

I can say something along the lines of "Barack Obama is the best president ever", but if I don't say anything else to back it up, it won't make a difference anyway. All you've said is that what I'm saying is too strict, which doesn't really help the discussion in any way at all.

Anyways, Fireman, I would be more concerned with Tino saying that people like me have mental problems, which not only insults people like me, it also insults people who DO have legitimate mental problems, such as ADD/ADHD, Bipolar, DID, etc. The fuck you wasn't from me. It was from my collective brand of people and more. I had half a mind to give him a verbal warning, but I think he immediatly saw what he did wrong after I said what I did. Tino's not dumb, I'll say that much.

I already saw that when I had posted it, and I also admitted it was inappropriate of me to say such a thing, and that it was never my intention to insult anybody. I simply shouldn't even have posted that.

As for knowing what's best for the forums, I would say that us, the administration, have a better idea of what's best for the forums, since we are the people who created this place, and shaped it to be what it is today. We do not want to come down too hard on people, because being strict isn't in the ideals of this forum. There is a time and place to be strict, and as the exception clause states, we know when and where that is, and will be strict at those times. All other times, it is unnecessary, and will do nothing but change the atmosphere of this forum, which is something we do NOT want to do.

I don't doubt that you know what's best for the forums. However, there is a time when you need to become stricter, and that's when the forums get incredible activity boosts and a much higher amount of members, which is this time. And what do you do? You make things even more lenient!

Please think about those last two sentences.

What's the point in having a full functioning Forum if no one wants to go there Tino?

Give it a rest man. The place here is supposed to be laid back. Just go with it.

It's not like guests or new members will pay a lot of attention to a warning system. They'll have no idea how it works anyway. A warning system is not something a member will go looking for immediately. No, they will first read the rules (hopefully), and then get to know other members better. After that, they might as well discover some things about the warning system, but as long as they have integrated into the community, it won't stop them from coming here.

These seem fine by me. Tino's seem outlandish.

Arguments to back this up, please.

I can say something along the lines of "Barack Obama is the best president ever", but if I don't say anything else to back it up, it won't make a difference anyway. All you've said is that what I'm saying is too strict, which doesn't really help the discussion in any way at all.

I belive that warns should not disappear just because of good behaviour.

If someone has % added to their warn, then it should stay. I think it should be like a criminal record, so to speak.

I see where you're coming from, but as Jyosua stated before already, members should be given another chance. In my opinion, though, they should only get this chance after one month, but everybody will find that "too strict" anyway <_<

[TheEnd]

Alright, it seems I'll have to use more words, then (I don't like doing that because my larger texts tend to be confusing and redundant, not to mention I sometimes talk things out of my ass in them - Bus knows that well). But at least I now have your attention.

I'm fully aware that the strictness wasn't actually the cause of FESS's closure - but, rather, issues like elitism (a supposedly unwelcoming community - and there's why the conflict between the "veterans" here and the "FESSugees" had to be dealt with as fast as possible) and the lack of a decent website. But, still, using FESS as an example is great for discussing strictness, albeit in a different way.

I guess not many of you know, but FESS wasn't strict at all when Bus, Vincent and I joined it. It was more like an anarchy, with only one or two active moderators (I'm thinking of Kyuusei here, maybe Summerwolf), a laissez-faire admin (TF) and an admin that wasn't even around (Cap). And it was going on just fine; if it wasn't, I wouldn't have bothered joining and socializing with people.

However, disaster struck and things started to get worse with the influx of retards caused by FE7's English release. It was THEN that Superbus was promoted to staff member and FESS started being strict, with daily bannings and stuff. It was needed back then, and it was what allowed those boards to change from a kind of clique board to the #1 internet source in Fire Emblem info. Bus's strictness was a boon. However, as time passed, circumstances changed, to the point that Bus himself said his leadership style was no longer fit for FESS. In its last days, it loosened up considerably, as some have already pointed out.

TL;DR, one needs to judge whether going down the strict path is a good choice or not. And that judgement is better left in the hands of the staff, so trust them a bit more, will you? Leave the action on the "eventually" when it happens. Attack what isn't there yet and you might strike down what's already there, and which you didn't want to hit. There's no point in making the community attractive to new members if that means the old ones you wanted to keep will leave because of it.

Also, one detail: I don't know if you know it, and I don't know if Josh likes me mentioning this, but... back in FESS1/2, Josyua was a retard (also 15 or something), and was eventually banned after many, many chances were given to him. Later, he returned as a much better person (but was still re-banned due to FESS's "no forgiveness" policy - and I'll admit it, I wasn't exactly against that). More than anyone, he's probably aware of the importance of giving younger members a chance. I'm no psychologist though, so I'll leave it at that.

Edited November 22, 2008 by TheEnd

[Knife]

If Jyo was retarded, how the fuck does he become root admin here?

[VincentASM]

Was is the key statement. Meaning no offense to Jyosua of course.

I was pretty stupid back in my early internet life as well.

[TheEnd]

Was is the key statement. Meaning no offense to Jyosua of course.

I was pretty stupid back in my early internet life as well.

Exactly. That's why I mentioned how he came back as a much better person (otosareta, lol), too.

It isn't something unusual at all. I was pretty much a stupid forum spammer eight, nine years ago when I started dealing with people online, myself. It's true that I was one of the maturer ones when I joined FESS, but... then again, I was one of the oldest ones, too.

[Crystal Shards]

"the road of [FEFF and] FEP?" What's that supposed to mean? FEP's growing tons faster than this place, or any other FE forum that I can think of for that matter, even with the influx of former FESSers. <_<

Why do you only really show up when someone says something bad about FEP?

And he wasn't talking about activity. He was talking about maturity. Two different things.