Anime Discussion Thread

[ciphertul]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Huh; I've heard people say Grancrest is good, I've heard people say Grancrest is bad, but I've never seen someone say it was mediocre before. That's new.

How did I know this would bring your running? Just have to step it and defend it don’t you.

Well, I’m a bit apprehensive about it but I’m gonna give Shield Hero a try. Sadly the genres I like seem to be on hiatus right now.

Edited June 24, 2021 by ciphertul

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I've only seen the first and third ones you listed (FMA:B and Code Geass). FMA:B is absolutely fantastic; one of the best shonen anime if not the best shonen anime. Code Geass… had some really interesting concepts; real shame how those concepts ended up in execution.

 

My Hero Academia is definitely good, and Deku is definitely a good protagonist.

As for what you said about Black Clover, Asta only screams a lot in the first few episodes, and that was mainly because it was the voice actor's first ever role. After those first several episodes or so, the screaming gets seriously dialed back and the voice actor improves a lot. I know you're referring to the type of shonen protagonist rather than the screaming specifically, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

 

Huh; I've heard people say Grancrest is good, I've heard people say Grancrest is bad, but I've never seen someone say it was mediocre before. That's new.

What conveniences and a**-pulls? I don't recall any such things except maybe Theo encountering Siluca, and that one I give a partial-pass to because: 1) it's right at the beginning, so there's some allowance there, and 2) Theo's basically a vagabond at the start of the show, so it's not implausible.

I agree about the show rushing from point a to b and not taking the time to properly introduce the viewer to the setting; that is absolutely one of its biggest problems. I wouldn't say that the setting is unimmersive though; it's fairly well-realized with the different factions and cultures as well as Chaos and the Crests and such. Funny that you describe it as "video gamey" since the original light novel was developed in parallel to a tabletop RPG.

I suppose that bit about the protagonist is true early on, but it quickly got deconstructed with characters beginning to suspect that Theo's just a puppet for Siluca, and when Siluca learns about that, she begins trying to avoid just setting everything up for him and Theo starts taking a lot more initiative, and I kind-of liked that and I thought it was an interesting way to develop their dynamic.

I haven't seen Shield Hero so I don't really understand the comparison.

 

By the way, given your list of anime includes stuff like Grancrest, FMA:B and Code Geass, I think you would really like 86 EIGHTY-SIX which I mentioned earlier in an earlier reply.

I'm saying that it isn't truly awful, like SAO, but it also isn't doing anything remarkable. It is one that I wanted to like, because actual midieval fantasy anime do seem to be hard to find, but it just didn't do it for me.

 

About halfway through season 1, my main criticisms are as such:

 

Passive protagonist. He essentially is a puppet for Siluca - the actual protagonist.

The one time he basically ignores her - inviting in the cleric, that decision conveniently saves the life of his best warrior later.

Politics don't work the way they do in this universe. The initial decision to declare for one faction, surrounding yourself with larger enemies, would just result in you getting dogpiled quickly. Allied vassal states vie for power all the time, so the same result could have been achieved more safely by declaring for the other side. Then when he actually does so, the rejection of his proposal and subsequent military invasion is also nonsensical, based on nothing more than the likelihood that Siluca is scheming something.

Fortunately for him and his risky politicial decisions, Siluca just happens to know the most badass warrior in the world, who is utterly unstoppable (except arbitrarily to magic exploding crossbows). 

The factions and their conflict is also poorly explained. It isn't even established early on why the demon attacking the wedding and killing both kings upset the marriage and the peace treaty. I'm left to assume that the princess was a war hawk all along and wanted it to happen.

[Etrurian emperor]

22 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Deku as a protagonist finds a comfortable middle ground between your generic Shounen protagonists and your wimpy reluctant heroes

Oh Deku's great. Most leads in big shonen are brats, idiots and extroverts so its a breath of fresh air that Deku is sensitive, sweet, an introvert and more of the strategist type. 

[vanguard333]

7 hours ago, ciphertul said:

How did I know this would bring your running? Just have to step it and defend it don’t you.

No, not defend it. I just wanted to discuss it. If you notice, I made a response for every show he listed that I've seen.

Besides, I'm honestly surprised that it didn't bring you running before I even had the chance to notice it.

Anyway, by any chance, now that the first seasons of Drifting Dragons and TONIKAWA (the previous two anime that I recommended) are finished, have you had a chance to try either of them? Oh, and fairly recently, I also mentioned and recommended a new show called 86 EIGHTY-SIX and posted the trailer for it. It's a really good show and it just finished the first half of its first season (it's split-cour; they haven't said when the second half will release).

 

6 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I'm saying that it isn't truly awful, like SAO, but it also isn't doing anything remarkable. It is one that I wanted to like, because actual midieval fantasy anime do seem to be hard to find, but it just didn't do it for me.

(I'm responding to the whole thing but cutting it down so my reply isn't too long)

I see. Honestly, I can completely understand that; I honestly was on-the-verge of just dismissing it as mediocre a couple times while watching it (particularly after a certain scene at the end of episode 9), but I stuck with the show all the way to the end because it intrigued me, and I'm honestly glad that I did.

In regards to your criticisms of its first half:

1. I honestly didn't see him as passive, except maybe for the first few episodes. But, I can definitely see where you're coming from; his driving motivations that he mentioned at the start of the show, such as gaining enough power to liberate his island home of Sicily Sistina from the Rossini family, did go understated until the Rossini family appeared at that meeting, and since he's a fish-out-of-water, he does defer a lot to Siluca at the start. You'd probably enjoy part 2 then a lot more in this particular regard: the first three episodes are about him going back to Sistina and attempting to liberate it from the Rossini family, then there's the conflict between him and Milza that's both political and personal, and he does take charge a lot more.

2. Um... their neighbours attempting to quickly dogpile them is what happened, it's exactly what Siluca and the other advisor said would happen, and it's exactly what Siluca wanted. It was insanely risky and definitely an example of Siluca overplaying her hand (something she does a lot in the earlier episodes and that others call her out on), but it meant that their opponents came to them.

As for them wanting to change sides getting rejected, I'd have to watch it again, but I'm pretty sure the reason wasn't that Siluca might've been plotting something (though it does make sense that one would be hesitant to accept someone who seems willing to change sides at the drop of a hat), but that it would set a very dangerous precedent or something like that. Again; I'd have to watch it again.

3. She's not the best fighter in the world; she's powerful thanks to being an Artist (someone who uses magic to enhance their physical attributes, like that guy who works for Lassic that can turn into steel), but her losing to those knights was to demonstrate that even she can be overwhelmed.

4. I completely agree about the faction conflict being poorly explained; it's probably one of my biggest issues with the show. As for that specific example, the princess' exact motives are intentionally kept a mystery until part 2, but I think it was explained at some point (can't remember when unfortunately) that the reason that monster attacking the wedding threw everything back into war was the fact that it obviously wasn't random; it was deliberate sabotage, and someone had to have summoned that creature. It's not even close to the best explanation ever written, but I just thought I'd try to answer that one.

[ciphertul]

3 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

No, not defend it. I just wanted to discuss it. If you notice, I made a response for every show he listed that I've seen.

Besides, I'm honestly surprised that it didn't bring you running before I even had the chance to notice it.

Wow, I take a stab at you the same way you did at me and got angry about it, nice mate. I already knew his thoughts, but I hate it and that is all that needs to be said.

 

5 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Anyway, by any chance, now that the first seasons of Drifting Dragons and TONIKAWA (the previous two anime that I recommended) are finished, have you had a chance to try either of them? Oh, and fairly recently, I also mentioned and recommended a new show called 86 EIGHTY-SIX and posted the trailer for it. It's a really good show and it just finished the first half of its first season (it's split-cour; they haven't said when the second half will release).

I watched the first like 3 episodes of Tonikawa and realized that I was reading the manga of it (they have different names for some reason) but the manga is much better. I haven't seen either of Drifting Dragons or 86 but as I love wholesome and happy Romance, Comedy and Slice of Life, I didn't think 86 was in my preferences.

[vanguard333]

44 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Wow, I take a stab at you the same way you did at me and got angry about it, nice mate. I already knew his thoughts, but I hate it and that is all that needs to be said.

Uh... what? I wasn't angry at all; if that's how it came across, that was absolutely not my intent, and I apologize for the miscommunication. I was just trying to clarify something while also replying to your stab with a (not meant to be mean-spirited in any way, so again: sorry if that was unintentionally how it came across) stab. That was all.

 

47 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I watched the first like 3 episodes of Tonikawa and realized that I was reading the manga of it (they have different names for some reason) but the manga is much better. I haven't seen either of Drifting Dragons or 86 but as I love wholesome and happy Romance, Comedy and Slice of Life, I didn't think 86 was in my preferences.

I see. I don't really read manga, so I wouldn't be able to compare them. 

Okay. Yeah; 86 isn't really in any of your preferences; I was just recommending it because I saw it and it was really good.

Drifting Dragons would definitely fall into that "slice-of-life" category though despite being fantasy.

[ciphertul]

41 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I see. I don't really read manga, so I wouldn't be able to compare them. 

Okay. Yeah; 86 isn't really in any of your preferences; I was just recommending it because I saw it and it was really good.

Drifting Dragons would definitely fall into that "slice-of-life" category though despite being fantasy.

The anime is Tonikawa: Over the moon for you, while the manga is called Tonikaku Kawaii. I didn't put 2 and 2 together on that one.

 I'm gonna try Shield Hero over the weekend, but I'll look into Drifting Dragons if I get the chance. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

17 hours ago, ciphertul said:

Wow, I take a stab at you the same way you did at me and got angry about it, nice mate. I already knew his thoughts, but I hate it and that is all that needs to be said.

 

I watched the first like 3 episodes of Tonikawa and realized that I was reading the manga of it (they have different names for some reason) but the manga is much better. I haven't seen either of Drifting Dragons or 86 but as I love wholesome and happy Romance, Comedy and Slice of Life, I didn't think 86 was in my preferences.

Let's just accept that liking different anime doesn't mean we're enemies.

 

God knows I would have been burned by the stake by now for thinking Dragonball Z sucks if that were the case. (It does by the way. DBZ is aggressively bad, and it is the main cause of everything wrong with Shounen anime to this day - just like SAO is everything wrong with Isekai).

 

20 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Oh Deku's great. Most leads in big shonen are brats, idiots and extroverts so its a breath of fresh air that Deku is sensitive, sweet, an introvert and more of the strategist type. 

MHA in general is working with more quality than your typical Shonen faire. Aside from the simply awful Mineta, everyone is really likeable, or has hidden depth that makes them likeable later. As far as favorites go, I'm a fan of Lida, Hawks, and Tsukuyomi.

 

(And MHA is near the top of my Warriors-want list with how big, varied, and over the top its cast is. Could be just as good as the One Piece ones, if not better).

[Etrurian emperor]

3 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

(And MHA is near the top of my Warriors-want list with how big, varied, and over the top its cast is. Could be just as good as the One Piece ones, if not better).

Heh personally I'd like something akin to a My Hero version of that ps4 Spiderman game. Or something devil may cray-ish. 

I think My Hero is a bit light on armies vs armies for a Warriors game 
 

Spoiler

Until it isn't. 

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

11 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Heh personally I'd like something akin to a My Hero version of that ps4 Spiderman game. Or something devil may cray-ish. 

I think My Hero is a bit light on armies vs armies for a Warriors game 
 

  Hide contents

Until it isn't. 

 

It was between that, a Marvel Heroes style Diablo like, and a Batman Arkham/Spiderman style game. I want them all. Just not more bland fighting games.

 

I also don't see being light on armies as a valid limitation. Most media is light on armies, and that didn't stop Hyrule Warriors.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[Etrurian emperor]

It does bother me that just about any anime gets a generic anime arena fighter, and that My Hero went on to continue that trend. 

[vanguard333]

11 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Let's just accept that liking different anime doesn't mean we're enemies.

 

God knows I would have been burned by the stake by now for thinking Dragonball Z sucks if that were the case. (It does by the way. DBZ is aggressively bad, and it is the main cause of everything wrong with Shounen anime to this day - just like SAO is everything wrong with Isekai).

I know you weren't replying to me, but I fully agree with that first sentence; I don't consider anyone an "enemy" for liking/disliking something that I dislike/like; in fact, I love hearing different opinions on a piece of media because I find different interpretations fascinating and I often learn something from it; be it something that I didn't notice when watching the piece of media or something else.

As for the second paragraph, I haven't seen either DragonBall Z or SAO, so I have no opinion on either of them and can't agree or disagree.

 

11 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

MHA in general is working with more quality than your typical Shonen faire. Aside from the simply awful Mineta, everyone is really likeable, or has hidden depth that makes them likeable later. As far as favorites go, I'm a fan of Lida, Hawks, and Tsukuyomi.

Very true; the characters in MHA are really good (except Mineta of course, but at least him getting comeuppance for his actions is always good for a laugh).

[Etrurian emperor]

Aside from Deku my favorite of the 1A kids is easily Kirishima. On the surface he's already great in the sense that he's a big wholesome puppy who's super friendly to everyone. Things only get better from there in season 4 which proceeds to treat him really well and adds some depth behind his usually so boisterous persona. I'd say his fight with Rappa is the highlight of the season.

Unfortunately there's one half of class 1A that gets treated very well, and another part of class 1A who are essentially glorified background characters. Sadly Mina isn't used to her full potential either with the writer even hinting that he'd love to make use of her but that his editors won't let him.

[Ottservia]

On 6/25/2021 at 7:24 PM, vanguard333 said:

As for the second paragraph, I haven't seen either DragonBall Z or SAO, so I have no opinion on either of them and can't agree or disagree.

Good because SAO and DBZ are great and don’t let anyone convince you otherwise of that fact(okay well SAO only gets good after season 1 but you know we don’t talk about season 1 especially because progressive exists and is much better).

[vanguard333]

40 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Good because SAO and DBZ are great and don’t let anyone convince you otherwise of that fact(okay well SAO only gets good after season 1 but you know we don’t talk about season 1 especially because progressive exists and is much better).

I see. I've heard plenty of good stuff about DBZ, but almost much everyone I ask about SAO has said the exact same thing: the first five/six episodes are okay, then the rest is bad. Of course, I asked this a couple years ago, so is it an "outdated" opinion so-to-speak (like the additional seasons didn't exist when I asked or something like that), or is it an opinion that's still held by a lot of people?

( @Ottservia By the way, in that anime conversation we were having, I made a response to that odd take someone had on Black Clover that you showed me. I'm letting you know here in case you didn't see it)

 

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Aside from Deku my favorite of the 1A kids is easily Kirishima. On the surface he's already great in the sense that he's a big wholesome puppy who's super friendly to everyone. Things only get better from there in season 4 which proceeds to treat him really well and adds some depth behind his usually so boisterous persona. I'd say his fight with Rappa is the highlight of the season.

Unfortunately there's one half of class 1A that gets treated very well, and another part of class 1A who are essentially glorified background characters. Sadly Mina isn't used to her full potential either with the writer even hinting that he'd love to make use of her but that his editors won't let him.

Kirishima is definitely really good, and I liked how season 4 revealed that he's scared, and that the hero he looked up to openly admitted to being scared too, but always leapt into danger anyway because he knew the consequences of hesitating.

Oh, that's true. For another example, the guy with a tail, Ojiro, hasn't been used at all, and the running joke throughout the series so far is that he's generic and bland and that there's nothing really to him. He really is a background character, and I can't even call him a glorified background character because the story itself mocks him for pretty much being a background character, so he's not exactly glorified.

Edited June 27, 2021 by vanguard333

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

@Ottservia By the way, in that anime conversation we were having, I made a response to that odd take someone had on Black Clover that you showed me. I'm letting you know here in case you didn't see it)

I saw it I just couldn’t figure out a proper way to respond and by the time I would have I forgot about it.

 

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

I see. I've heard plenty of good stuff about DBZ, but almost much everyone I ask about SAO has said the exact same thing: the first five/six episodes are okay, then the rest is bad. Of course, I asked this a couple years ago, so is it an "outdated" opinion so-to-speak (like the additional seasons didn't exist when I asked or something like that), or is it an opinion that's still held by a lot of people?

You have no idea how much sao is hated amoung the larger anime community. Undeservedly so I might add because while yes it is flawed in some areas the later seasons are genuinely great stories with a lot of interesting ideas. It’s just hard to recommend because the first season has a lot of let’s just say undesirable elements. Fairy dance especially

Edited June 27, 2021 by Ottservia

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

I saw it I just couldn’t figure out a proper way to respond and by the time I would have I forgot about it.

 

You have no idea how much sao is hated among the larger anime community. Undeservedly so I might add because while yes it is flawed in some areas the later seasons are genuinely great stories with a lot of interesting ideas. It’s just hard to recommend because the first season has a lot of let’s just say undesirable elements. Fairy dance especially

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

Well, I figured that people didn't like SAO given the answers that I got, but I definitely did not know about any hatred; is there really a level of anger directed at it? When I asked people, if anything, it more came across as dispassionate ridicule than anger, and even then, ridicule would be a strong word for it. I guess I've only really seen more or less the calmer sides of the anime community with some exceptions.

[Fabulously Olivier]

18 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I see. I've heard plenty of good stuff about DBZ, but almost much everyone I ask about SAO has said the exact same thing: the first five/six episodes are okay, then the rest is bad. Of course, I asked this a couple years ago, so is it an "outdated" opinion so-to-speak (like the additional seasons didn't exist when I asked or something like that), or is it an opinion that's still held by a lot of people?

( @Ottservia By the way, in that anime conversation we were having, I made a response to that odd take someone had on Black Clover that you showed me. I'm letting you know here in case you didn't see it)

 

Kirishima is definitely really good, and I liked how season 4 revealed that he's scared, and that the hero he looked up to openly admitted to being scared too, but always leapt into danger anyway because he knew the consequences of hesitating.

Oh, that's true. For another example, the guy with a tail, Ojiro, hasn't been used at all, and the running joke throughout the series so far is that he's generic and bland and that there's nothing really to him. He really is a background character, and I can't even call him a glorified background character because the story itself mocks him for pretty much being a background character, so he's not exactly glorified.

I don't really understand how Ojiro and the invisible girl even made the class. Their powers are nothing special in-universe at all.

 

 

 

Anyway, because Crunchyroll seems to have locked the entire second season of Dr. Stone behind a premium paywall for now, I'm moving on to Speed Grapher. It's like if Spike Spiegal from Cowboy Bebop found himself in a particularly nihilistic, sexually gratuitous detective noir, and it's pretty good.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Fabulously Olivier

[ciphertul]

41 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

 

Anyway, because Crunchyroll seems to have locked the entire second season of Dr. Stone behind a premium paywall for now, I'm moving on to Speed Grapher. It's like if Spike Spiegal from Cowboy Bebop found himself in a particularly nihilistic, sexually gratuitous detective noir, and it's pretty good.

I'm glad you're enjoying it, despite my previous posted interests Speed Grapher is easily one of my favorite shows. It's dark, serious and one hell of a ride. 

[Randombobman]

I've embarked on my maiden viewing of Yu Yu Hakusho. Sure I've watched scattered eps growing up but never the show in its entirety. I binged HxH last June and decided to do the forerunner this summer. Currently halfway through the dark tournament and what an Arc my God. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

Currently watching The Heroic Legend of Arslan and Fire Force, and I really like both.

[Etrurian emperor]

Arslan is made(or at least adapted) by the FMA lady if I recall so its definitely somewhere on my to do list. It seems to have a Persian-Greek inspired setting which should be straight up my alley. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Etrurian emperor

[Fabulously Olivier]

On 7/23/2021 at 5:47 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Arslan is made(or at least adapted) by the FMA lady if I recall so its definitely somewhere on my to do list. It seems to have a Persian-Greek inspired setting which should be straight up my alley. 

Yep. I got into it through its musou game.

 

My to-watch list includes Vinland Saga and Kingdom.

[ciphertul]

Man, it been pretty bare around here in terms of new anime but I can’t express how much I am looking forward to Komi-san in a couple week. I have only read all 300+ chapters.

[vanguard333]

5 hours ago, ciphertul said:

Man, it been pretty bare around here in terms of new anime

I wish I could help by listing any new anime that I've been watching, but I've only really been watching two anime lately; both ongoing shonen anime that I have already been watching for some time. Specifically, Boruto and season 5 of My Hero Academia.

I haven't really found any anime recently that interested me and that I wasn't already watching. Making this even worse is that Black Clover went on hiatus several months ago to avoid overtaking the manga.