Healers in FEH

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

None of the Gen1 healers has gotten a personal weapon or refine. People assume because Healers can Firesweep their way through that they are in a fine position with Gravity/Pain/Panic staff, what they forget is that Healers sacrifice their B-Slot for this and have been limited in the refines (their refines give them no stat boost) and that its only worth on healers that actually can put out some numbers.

Firesweep archers give up their B slot for Poison Strike to emulate Pain. They can run other B skills, but their primary job is to deal chip damage, so they generally run double Poison Strike, or at least that is what I do for mine. What Firesweep archers do have over staff units is being able to activate a damage Special and have access to Reposition. The damage Special further helps them chip (or kill if necessary), and Reposition makes the unit a lot easier to use.

Staff units gives that up for the ability heal, get rid of debuffs via Restore, and have a variety of debuffing Weapons. The A slot is not that big of a problem with Atk/Spd Push and Atk/Spd Solo being a thing now, although it is expensive.

Giving up two slots for Firesweeping is pretty reasonable in my opinion. It is not like most Firesweep archers are running anything amazing on their B slots either. The infantry ones can run Special Spiral for more consistent Moonbows, but if a lot of enemies have Guard, then good luck trying to get Moonbow to activate at all. Armor ones are pretty fun since they have better mobility than infantry ones and Firesweep-Bold Fighter means they will almost always double and activate Moonbow, although they are super glass cannons in the sense that they cannot take any damage at all or else Armored Boots stops working, so they do not work with Wings of Mercy.

Firesweep Bow also does not give any stat boosts. Pain is a 10 Mt Weapon while Firesweep Bow is an 11 Mt Weapon. Since Atk/Spd Push gives the same Atk/Spd boost as Life and Death, Pain Firesweepers are only losing out on 1 Atk compared to a Firesweep archers (assuming they have the same base Atk/Spd).

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I could see a B-Skill that doubles the amount of visible buffs a Healer gives out via staves or C-Skills (or balms).
I could see a B-Skill that adds another Debuff and doubles the amount of debuffs in tandem with Slow and Fear staves on foes.
I could see a B-Skill that gives out a debuff immunity buff to allies within 2 spaces
I could see a B-Skill that extends the range of Spur and Drive skills.

Since their B slots are so valuable for Firesweeping with Dazzling Staff and Wrathful Staff, I think it is better off moving some of those effects to the Special slot. Their Specials need a lot more variety.

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

Meanwhile Dancers can do their role (dancing) while buffing at the same time. Or attack if they want and wings of mercy/escape route the where they want and Galeforce their way into oblivion

Staff units have a C slot too so they can buff as well.

Staff units can use Wings of Mercy too, although it would make their Firesweep less effective.

And staff units can Firesweep. That is far more threatening than Galeforcing in my opinion. Galeforcing Dancers/Singers need to run Flashing Blade on their Sacred Seal slot, which reduces their buffing utility.

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

Healers meanwhile need to pick between either healing or debuffing with their stave and their specials that  are mostly useless... uh yeah totally fair, not to mention if you want to wings of mercy escape route you give up the firesweep, 2 skills that are tremendously helpfull on Support units.

I agree it would be nice to be able to heal and debuff at the same time. I think that is best accomplished with a Special so the debuffing coincides with the healing so they can keep the B slot for Firesweeping.

Edited April 21, 2020 by XRay

[eclipse]

17 hours ago, Endriu said:

There is definitely a market for more demanding games. In fact many a feh player has moved on to games which require more time investment. And many of those that still play just log in for the daily bare minimum. I am not sure this is the best long-term approach (financially). The only time that I feel truly invested is when I am clearing the latest abyssal map which comes once a month - and I have been doing it with one and the same team all the time.

Or you can play multiple gacha games.  I'd be willing to plug one of my favorite via PM, since it's way off-topic~!

(this goes for anyone else who wants a crazy-high time investment)

---

I think it's bad logic to say "healers are good as long as you can get this 5-star exclusive skill in their B slot", because I'd MUCH rather run Live to Serve or Wings of Mercy.  Luckily, a couple of Bonds are on grail units, so I've been having fun with that.

I think they're overdue for a slight buff, though.  Pain's probably the most generically useful staff, followed by Gravity.  Panic depends on the enemy team comp, Absorb lets me run something better in the B slot, and I can't find much use for Fear/Slow.  But the only time I feel like using them is TT/sieges/GC (someone else's healer).

That being said, Fjorm as a PP AR unit is hilarious.  I've managed a lot of wins by shutting down the opponent's dancer.

[Endriu]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Or you can play multiple gacha games.  I'd be willing to plug one of my favorite via PM, since it's way off-topic~!

(this goes for anyone else who wants a crazy-high time investment)

---

I think it's bad logic to say "healers are good as long as you can get this 5-star exclusive skill in their B slot", because I'd MUCH rather run Live to Serve or Wings of Mercy.  Luckily, a couple of Bonds are on grail units, so I've been having fun with that.

I think they're overdue for a slight buff, though.  Pain's probably the most generically useful staff, followed by Gravity.  Panic depends on the enemy team comp, Absorb lets me run something better in the B slot, and I can't find much use for Fear/Slow.  But the only time I feel like using them is TT/sieges/GC (someone else's healer).

That being said, Fjorm as a PP AR unit is hilarious.  I've managed a lot of wins by shutting down the opponent's dancer.

I am curious what that game would be - send it!

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

L!Veronica was a beast and with close counter and live to serve she became a warrior who could attack up close and heal allies who were hurt but she was frail so she often died a lot. OOF MAjorly on my part

[Hilda]

9 minutes ago, PeonyofLeosa Dreamworld said:

L!Veronica was a beast and with close counter and live to serve she became a warrior who could attack up close and heal allies who were hurt but she was frail so she often died a lot. OOF MAjorly on my part

meanwhile when you encounter Azama or Wrys you laugh your ass off... the options to build a healer!

[Ice Dragon]

On 4/19/2020 at 11:14 PM, Hilda said:

Their support role in PVP mode is useless without a Dancer or Gravity or a PRF weapon.

Every staff unit in the game has access to Gravity, and the skill has been easily accessible in the 3- and 4-star summoning pool since launch.

Staff units have it easy when all other ranged Sweep weapons are locked to the 5-star summoning pool.

 

On 4/20/2020 at 5:52 PM, Hilda said:

what they forget is that Healers sacrifice their B-Slot for this

Dazzling Staff is literally one of the best skills in the game. Sacrificing the B slot for it is hardly a sacrifice (for parity with other weapon types, I've assumed Wrathful Staff is on the weapon, but swapping their positions still puts you in the exact same situation where you're running both skills and the skill in the B slot is still the most optimal choice).

 

On 4/21/2020 at 1:09 AM, eclipse said:

I think it's bad logic to say "healers are good as long as you can get this 5-star exclusive skill in their B slot", because I'd MUCH rather run Live to Serve or Wings of Mercy. 

I mean, staff units don't even need to have Dazzling Staff or Wrathful Staff in the B slot for a pure support role. Dazzling Staff on the weapon is more than sufficient for support, which is amazing for budget builds.

And Pain+ is just as brutal without Wrathful Staff anyways.

 

On 4/21/2020 at 1:30 AM, Hilda said:

meanwhile when you encounter Azama or Wrys you laugh your ass off... the options to build a healer!

Meanwhile, Grand Conquest hates me and always spawns an unkillable Azama or Wrys on top of an enemy base.

The deepest level of Hell is reserved for those people who keep a Fortress Def/Res Azama or Wrys as their rep.

[Zeo]

Staff units are fine as is. Razzle Dazzle remains a particularly potent combination that only the likes of the rare Null-C-Disrupt skill counters and they are terrifying debuffs that double as healers. The Melancholy staff is a particularly scary thing to face if you don't go the traditional Pain+ route.

The only thing they really need is for older staff units to get their own prfs. As they currently function healers are more or less interchangable with newer ones with superior statlines being strictly better than their Gen 1-2 counterparts. The only exceptions are those with prfs. Those prfs would promote a unique additional role a lot of the healers could play in addition to the standard Razzle Dazzle. Without this, character bias aside there's no real reason to use, say, Serra/Lucius over Mercedes.

[Baldrick]

Healers have unique utility, and imo the inheritance restrictions are balanced by cheap Gravity and Pain access. (Incidentally, Gravity is the better staff, unlike Pain it’s hard to emulate with a non-staff sweeper.) They are so strong that prfs would have limited impact, and with the current rate of refines added it’s a waste.

If staves need more variety, make more utility weapons inheritable/accessible like Melancholy, Fjorm’s staff and Loki’s staff. These kind of support weapons work just as well no matter the unit’s stat spread.

 

[Roflolxp54]

Staff units pretty much peaked after the introduction of Weapon Refinery, which allowed them to run the Razzle Dazzle combo -- it's likely the biggest reason that they generally do not see many updates afterwards, perhaps moreso with Genny being in weekly revival banners for those looking for Wrathful Staff fodder (she gets 2 banners per 20-banner rotation, meaning she gets at least 4 banners per year with rates better than those of Hero Fest banners).

Null C-Disrupt may exist but Nailah banners are nowhere as common as Genny, let alone with such boosted rates.

It also helps that almost every healer of the same movement type can practically be used the same way, meaning it's only a matter of picking a favorite or being patient with your orbs if you're going after a 5*-exclusive or seasonal if you want to invest in one, not to mention that a lot of powerful generic staves like Pain, Gravity, and Panic, as well as heal assists like Recover and Restore are easy to get if you consistently pull colorless.